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Opinions sought - Will my '93 EV Powertrain last 250K miles?

[email protected]
 

To all - opinions sought:
My questions:
1. Am I being widely optimistic to expect 250 K miles service life from this
powertrain ('93 EV with 2.5 liter 5 cylinder gasoline engine with 5 speed
manual transmission) without the need for rebuild?
2. How much longer will dealers be offering new '03 EVs since I understand
they are out of production? The one I am looking at was built 6/02. Is
this one one the last batches? Maybe VW made a bunch and intends to keep
trickling them into the USA through the model year so they can maintain
profitable pricing. On the other hand since the new Micro bus is probably a
year or so away they probably will have a year gap in havin a van on the
market as they did with the Vanagon to Eurovan transition.

More info:
I am once again weighing the purchase of a beautiful new '03 EV MV (dark
green) versus cost to keep up my old '93 EV MV. Whenever I do this (and I
seem to do it at least once a year and thus drive my wife crazy) the old Aqua
Blue EV wins out. My assumption is always that if I keep changing the oil
regularly and change the belts and coolant hoses before they break then my
old trusty EV will easily hit this mark. Of course it might start to look
like a rusty bucket but I am not hung up on having a shiny car and can handle
most maintenence myself. I'm now at 134K miles and given I put on about
15K per year I estimate a remaining life of about 8 more years. This will
bring me through 2010 ( and almost through college years for my 3 kids) and
after that I will certainly be done with it and can park it on my brothers
property in upstate New York and use it as a small permanent outdoor shed:-)
Main role for my EV currently and projected through 2010 is to be my daily
commuter (15 RT) plus serve as the family hauler for annual North Carolina
vacation plus any trips where all five of us would be tight in our '00 Jetta
TDI. I try to use the Jetta for local trips as much as possible to avoid
wear and tear on the EV and minimize fuel cost. I am estimating spending on
average $1000 to keep the van going over the next 8 years. This assumes no
major rebuild of the powertrain components except to replace CV joints.
Current value is 4-5K. I also have a '74 Lotus Europa in my garage that one
day will run again and be my back up commuter car if the EV needs to be down
for repairs (don't laugh!).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Ron
Michael G. McCarthy
 

Ron,

I'm going through the same math, with the same engine/drivetrain and
identical miles. I'm shooting for 200K and another four or five years,
which only gets my kids into high school (when they will stop having fun in
the back of the van singing songs with each other anyway, probably).

BTW, I love the idea of the shed.

I'd add that you/we should expect to replace the A/C compressor and the
clutch, both big jobs where parts aren't bad but labor is high (unless you
do it yourself, of course).

Other bolt-ons (power steering pump, power steering rack, alternator,
starter) could also fail but none of those will be too expensive or too hard
to replace.

My timing chain was replaced at 70K (by the previous owner under his 75K
extended warranty) so I'll probably have to do that again. Next summer or
maybe the summer after that I expect to do it all.....pull the front of the
motor apart and replace all the belts and spinning things; pull the
transmission and replace the clutch and all the other wear items (I already
bought two NEW outer CV joints that Steve at europarts-sd.com tells me are
among the last NEW ones anywhere, only rebuilts will be available soon).
Also, I'll replace any coolant hoses and hose fittings with new ones (and
I've got NO problem with plastic OEM parts....they last 10 years or more;
what's to complain about?).

Otherwise, the basic "box" is in good shape...only a little rust, suspension
stuff is still tight as are doors and weather stripping and virtually the
entire interior is near perfect. Electrically--mirrors and fans and cruise
control and etc etc--is all working.

Piston slap. Still got it, it still goes away when warm. It sounds a
little worse, but my every-10K-oil-analysis says engine wear is modest.
Compression and fuel mileage is still very good.

When all is said and done, as long as the engine is holding up and the
control systems are OK (the EV will be a shed in the backyard in a heartbeat
if the 10,000 miles of computer controlled wiring suddenly gets flaky) I'll
keep it on the road.

Of course, as soon as I get that phone call from Bill Armstrong, all bets
are off.

To all - opinions sought:
My questions:
1. Am I being widely optimistic to expect 250 K miles service life from this
powertrain ('93 EV with 2.5 liter 5 cylinder gasoline engine with 5 speed
manual transmission) without the need for rebuild?
2. How much longer will dealers be offering new '03 EVs since I understand
they are out of production? The one I am looking at was built 6/02. Is
this one one the last batches? Maybe VW made a bunch and intends to keep
trickling them into the USA through the model year so they can maintain
profitable pricing. On the other hand since the new Micro bus is probably a
year or so away they probably will have a year gap in havin a van on the
market as they did with the Vanagon to Eurovan transition.

More info:
I am once again weighing the purchase of a beautiful new '03 EV MV (dark
green) versus cost to keep up my old '93 EV MV. Whenever I do this (and I
seem to do it at least once a year and thus drive my wife crazy) the old Aqua
Blue EV wins out. My assumption is always that if I keep changing the oil
regularly and change the belts and coolant hoses before they break then my
old trusty EV will easily hit this mark. Of course it might start to look
like a rusty bucket but I am not hung up on having a shiny car and can handle
most maintenence myself. I'm now at 134K miles and given I put on about
15K per year I estimate a remaining life of about 8 more years. This will
bring me through 2010 ( and almost through college years for my 3 kids) and
after that I will certainly be done with it and can park it on my brothers
property in upstate New York and use it as a small permanent outdoor shed:-)
Main role for my EV currently and projected through 2010 is to be my daily
commuter (15 RT) plus serve as the family hauler for annual North Carolina
vacation plus any trips where all five of us would be tight in our '00 Jetta
TDI. I try to use the Jetta for local trips as much as possible to avoid
wear and tear on the EV and minimize fuel cost. I am estimating spending on
average $1000 to keep the van going over the next 8 years. This assumes no
major rebuild of the powertrain components except to replace CV joints.
Current value is 4-5K. I also have a '74 Lotus Europa in my garage that one
day will run again and be my back up commuter car if the EV needs to be down
for repairs (don't laugh!).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Ron

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[email protected]
 

Mike and Norman,

Thanks for responding to my posting. Glad to see that I'm not the only one
that thinks this way. To be honest, I've actually put a car for sale in the
paper once before and immediately changed my mind so when people called I
just said it was sold (again to me!) My wife never believes me anymore when
I take her shopping for cars.

In reality, it would take a very good deal from the VW dealer on the '03 MV
to get me to part with my trusty '93 MV. Currently the '03 vehicle they have
lists for $28,660 (MV + paint+ destination) and they have reduced it to
$26,900 and suggest there is more room. They say this price is $400 over
invoice. No 0% financing deals like Chrysler or the others. If they had that
I'd immediately take the plunge. I also have to add 6% NJ sales tax-ouch!
That alone more than pays for the entire timing belt water pump job at my
local VW dealer. I may call again tomorrow and see if they have anything
else to offer.

Ron
 

rbiegel1@... wrote:
Currently the '03 vehicle they have lists for $28,660 (MV + paint +
destination) and they have reduced it to $26,900 and suggest there
is more room.
We were quoted $26,767 for an '03 MV that was stickered at $28,315 at
our dealer in St. Cloud Minnesota. We ordered the Consumer's Union New
Car Price Reports, and it lists the dealer's actual price as $25,226, so
there's still a little room to talk them down.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
[email protected]
 

In a message dated 12/16/02 12:56:19 AM, leeahart@... writes:

<< there's still a little room to talk them down. >>

Thanks Lee. I was thinking to get that report myself but appreciate the
information. Sound like the dealer could be below 26K if they really want to
sell. With year end rapidly approaching the deals may get better.
FYI - my dealer is offering 4-1/4% 3 year VW financing . Not very
competitive with all the 0% deals floating around.
Ron


Ron
 

for 0% try fitting all your stuff in a nissan............................... Plus
they crash real good. not.

rbiegel1@... wrote:

In a message dated 12/16/02 12:56:19 AM, leeahart@... writes:

<< there's still a little room to talk them down. >>

Thanks Lee. I was thinking to get that report myself but appreciate the
information. Sound like the dealer could be below 26K if they really want to
sell. With year end rapidly approaching the deals may get better.
FYI - my dealer is offering 4-1/4% 3 year VW financing . Not very
competitive with all the 0% deals floating around.
Ron

Ron

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mailto:ev_update-unsubscribe@...


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--- > Ron,

Caveat emptor! When I looked into financing a new EV last year when
VW offered 0% (I have since been snapped out of my foolishness) I
found out that the deal was for a term of two years only. The
monthly payments were pretty high. At that time I found my credit
union had a much better deal. Just thought you'd want to know
that 'things aren't always what they seem'.

Scott in MD/DC
93 GL (ten years old and never been better!)
B. Nostrand
 

For another reference. My family and I purchased a new 2002 mv weekender poptop in april of this year. the negotiated price, including front floor mats (what a coup) was $28,500. We got the 2 years at .9% and didn't have to make our first payment for 45 days (plus we paid an additional $365.00 prior to our first payment to completely eliminate the interest.) So our final deal was $28,500, zero down and 25 .5 months to pay it off. We were quite pleased with the price and helped two other sets of friends get the same deal. Seems like there would definitely be more room to move price wise on rather than settling for the $26K on the GLS or non-poptop mv. rbury

----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart
To: ev_update@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ev_update] Opinions sought - Will my '93 EV Powertrain last 250K miles?


Ron rbiegel1@... wrote:
> Thanks Lee. I was thinking to get that report myself but appreciate
> the information. Sound like the dealer could be below 26K if they
> really want to sell. With year end rapidly approaching the deals may
> get better. FYI - my dealer is offering 4-1/4% 3 year VW financing.
> Not very competitive with all the 0% deals floating around.

As for all loans, you need to get the TOTAL amount that you will pay
over the term of the loan. Then you can decide if it's a good deal or
not. There are simply too many ways to calculate interest, too many
hidden charges, etc. to compare blindly on percent interest rate.

Here's a crude example. You're buying a Christmas gift. Would you rather
pay $100 today, or $101 at the end of the month? The latter is a
horrible interest rate -- but it only costs you $1. With all the holiday
bills, it might be better to pay that $1 and wait.

In my case, VW offered me 3.5% interest for a 24-month loan. We already
had the money in the bank, and it was paying only 1% interest. So it was
better to buy it outright than to finance it. But if we had the money in
a CD that was paying (say) 5%, then we'd be money ahead to finance it
(we make more on the 5% interest than we pay for the 3.5% loan).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen



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Ron rbiegel1@... wrote:
Thanks Lee. I was thinking to get that report myself but appreciate
the information. Sound like the dealer could be below 26K if they
really want to sell. With year end rapidly approaching the deals may
get better. FYI - my dealer is offering 4-1/4% 3 year VW financing.
Not very competitive with all the 0% deals floating around.
As for all loans, you need to get the TOTAL amount that you will pay
over the term of the loan. Then you can decide if it's a good deal or
not. There are simply too many ways to calculate interest, too many
hidden charges, etc. to compare blindly on percent interest rate.

Here's a crude example. You're buying a Christmas gift. Would you rather
pay $100 today, or $101 at the end of the month? The latter is a
horrible interest rate -- but it only costs you $1. With all the holiday
bills, it might be better to pay that $1 and wait.

In my case, VW offered me 3.5% interest for a 24-month loan. We already
had the money in the bank, and it was paying only 1% interest. So it was
better to buy it outright than to finance it. But if we had the money in
a CD that was paying (say) 5%, then we'd be money ahead to finance it
(we make more on the 5% interest than we pay for the 3.5% loan).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen

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