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More Eurovan Power - in addition to a LiFePO4 house battery installed last year, I've now added:
* A second removable solar panel (SunPower 110W) with custom aluminum slide-in mount
* Victron BMV-712 (battery monitor)
* Victron IP-22 (battery charger)
* Victron SmartSolar (MPPT solar charge controller)
It's all documented in the newest updates on my website:
I'm happy to answer questions or provide more info here on the list.
Enjoy!
Mike
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Nice installation!??
I have a lot of the same components in my 2002 MV.? ?I don't have room for panels on the roof and wanted to use them outboard anyway, so I just store and take out mine.? I have approx 200 watts of flexible (Acopower) .
I did a write up in a forum on installing my battery and components.? Somebody re posted it here:??
I also have the Victron charger and Phoenix sine wave 500 watt inverter under my passenger seat and eventually installed another 50 amp hour battery there as well.?
I run a 12v DC Snowmaster chest type dual compartment fridge and it seems to use a lot more power than your fridge.? ?I need those 200 watts of solar to keep it running.??
Flexible panels underperform the glass with the same rating and the plastic is not very durable.? But convenient.? I like how you have both options for roof or removable.? Wish I had room to do the same.? Maybe work something out similar down the line.? ?Sometimes we leave the van all day in some parking lot and need solar if the batteries were not already charged by driving.?
Steve 
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Steve, thanks for the compliments!
1. Solar (and Refrigerator) performance is highly dependent on location - I've found the 85W solar panel was enough to run my Vitrifrigo C60 indefinitely, as long as I'm parking at altitude in the Sierra Nevadas in the summer (e.g. not too hot, tons of sunlight).?
2. I see from pictures you have the Cyrix-Li-Charge. ? Do you like it? ?I'm still trying to figure out how to handle my starting battery. ? ?The MPPT 100/20 has a load output (which I thought I could program as a battery charger) but I'm having troubles with that and am discussing on the Victron forums.
I've rewired the Eurovan so almost everything is on the House battery, and I rarely take trips longer than 3-5 days, so it may not matter much.
?
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Nice installation!??
I have a lot of the same components in my 2002 MV.? ?I don't have room for panels on the roof and wanted to use them outboard anyway, so I just store and take out mine.? I have approx 200 watts of flexible (Acopower) .
I did a write up in a forum on installing my battery and components.? Somebody re posted it here:??
I also have the Victron charger and Phoenix sine wave 500 watt inverter under my passenger seat and eventually installed another 50 amp hour battery there as well.?
I run a 12v DC Snowmaster chest type dual compartment fridge and it seems to use a lot more power than your fridge.? ?I need those 200 watts of solar to keep it running.??
Flexible panels underperform the glass with the same rating and the plastic is not very durable.? But convenient.? I like how you have both options for roof or removable.? Wish I had room to do the same.? Maybe work something out similar down the line.? ?Sometimes we leave the van all day in some parking lot and need solar if the batteries were not already charged by driving.?
Steve
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I am impressed with the C60 efficiency or better, disappointed with my Snowmaster's efficiency.? ?It really needs the 200 watts of panel to keep going day after day in hot areas.? But I will add that the model I have has two full separate temp compartments.? One or both compartment can be set as freezer or fridge or one of each.? ?So that's a bit more refrigeration work getting done.
I do have the Cyrix Li-charge.? After several years of using it, I'm not sure how much I like it.? Reason is that it's supposed to intelligently sense the voltage coming in for a lithium to trigger the relay but the factory settings don't seem to work right. I can't remember what it is- been quite a while since I used the van.? Soon....? In the end, I rely on the trigger control of the Li-Charge by using the relay function on the BMV.? That is rock solid and I can set it from the bluetooth app as I like.? There are many options there.? ?Sometimes I go in and turn it off manually as well.
I've looked into others, especially the ones that Battleborn carries and don't like how they work either.? ?So the Li-charge is the best option so far, but not as good as it could be.?
The MPPT will not work to charge from you alternator.? They need to see the much higher voltage of a solar input than the alternator will put out.? That's my understanding.??
The MPPT is, however the best way to manage your loads and protect drainage.? I use the load output to power everything except the inverter. 
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Steve
As you mentioned, I¡¯ve noticed for some time my MPPT has interfered with my Auxiliary Battery charging off the alternator. Because of that it¡¯s been on my to do list, as I thought it was faulty. I didn¡¯t realize this was an issue with them, as it seemed to work fine for years. ?What settings or way do you use to avoid this, I know I¡¯ve changed my settings several times over the years and that may have triggered the issue. Thanks?
Phil B 2003 EV WE 289kmi
?
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Phil.? I'm not clear on how the Solar regulator is working at all charging from the alternator in your setup.? I contemplated running mine through the panel inputs but learned (on the Victron forums I believe) that it will not work.? ?Are you actually using the MPPT to manage charging your house battery off of the alternator?? ?Are you saying that you do have the alternator output feeding into the MPPT's panel inputs?? ?
Again, my understanding is that this cannot work unless the charging source voltage (panels or alternator) is x volts (is it 5?) above the voltage needed to charge the house battery.? If this is what you are doing, then I'm ignorant as to how it works at all!?
For me and most if not all installations, you connect your starter battery (effectively the alternator) to a relay and then when the relay is triggered to close, it connects the two batteres together.? The higher voltage the starter battery is getting from the alternator charges the house battery.? ?The Solar MPPT is not in the loop.??
The only control really needed is to disconnect the batteries when the engine is not running.?
As I said,? I use the Cyrix triggered off of the BMV relay wire.? ?I also have the relay monitoring the starter battery voltage as it arrives to the relay.? ? Then I set up rules in the BMV software to power or close the relay when it sees say 13.6 volts from the starter battery.? And to open if the power exceeds 14.2 to keep from over charging.? ? If I remember right !??
There are many possible permutations using the rules, though I wish we could get a more sophisticated rule system, it's useful.? ??
Now, there is typical a case I know of where the device charging your house battery does double duty as a solar input as well.? That would be when using DC to DC chargers that also have an input for solar.?
Also, I have a note (probably from Victron forums)? that the Victron MPPT WILL work as a DC to DC charger if you are charging a 12v nominal off of a 24v nominal system.? ?So, again,? it's all about the voltage difference.? ?12v to 12v (or 14.5 to 13.5+? is not enough difference for the MPPT to work.? 12v nominal panels put out closer to 20 v.? 
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Steve, can you say more about the BMV / Cyrix setup?
Phil, I'm also not sure I understand what you are seeing, where you said "my MPPT has interfered with my Auxiliary Battery charging off the alternator"
There are a couple of LFP battery cautions (which I might call "myths") out there:
1. you can't charge a LiFePO4 battery from an alternator, because it will kill the alternator.
Victron has warning about this. I think this may be true if you have a totally empty LFP battery pack (multiple batteries) and hook it with a massive cable to a standard car alternator, and charge it at idle. The alternator will overheat and die in that situation. But generally, none of these are true - Eurovans have only 1 house battery, the wiring is small (which reduces charge amps) and most people don't idle their vans for hours.
2. alternator charging will never fully charge a LFP battery.
This one is more true, but not that important, assuming you have a solar system. Even if your alternator only charges the LFP to 80% (say), when you stop driving, your solar system will finish the job.
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On Jun 1, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Steve via groups.io <seaweedsteve@...> wrote:
Phil. I'm not clear on how the Solar regulator is working at all charging from the alternator in your setup. I contemplated running mine through the panel inputs but learned (on the Victron forums I believe) that it will not work. Are you actually using the MPPT to manage charging your house battery off of the alternator? Are you saying that you do have the alternator output feeding into the MPPT's panel inputs?
Again, my understanding is that this cannot work unless the charging source voltage (panels or alternator) is x volts (is it 5?) above the voltage needed to charge the house battery. If this is what you are doing, then I'm ignorant as to how it works at all!
For me and most if not all installations, you connect your starter battery (effectively the alternator) to a relay and then when the relay is triggered to close, it connects the two batteres together. The higher voltage the starter battery is getting from the alternator charges the house battery. The Solar MPPT is not in the loop.
The only control really needed is to disconnect the batteries when the engine is not running.
As I said, I use the Cyrix triggered off of the BMV relay wire. I also have the relay monitoring the starter battery voltage as it arrives to the relay. Then I set up rules in the BMV software to power or close the relay when it sees say 13.6 volts from the starter battery. And to open if the power exceeds 14.2 to keep from over charging. If I remember right !
There are many possible permutations using the rules, though I wish we could get a more sophisticated rule system, it's useful.
Now, there is typical a case I know of where the device charging your house battery does double duty as a solar input as well. That would be when using DC to DC chargers that also have an input for solar.
Also, I have a note (probably from Victron forums) that the Victron MPPT WILL work as a DC to DC charger if you are charging a 12v nominal off of a 24v nominal system. So, again, it's all about the voltage difference. 12v to 12v (or 14.5 to 13.5+ is not enough difference for the MPPT to work. 12v nominal panels put out closer to 20 v.
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Michael
i should have mentioned, I have the standard lead acid battery, not a LFP. ?As an example, my wife and I just finished a straight through 1100 mile trip and upon arrival my house battery was charged to only 62%. ?The alternator range was fine (I monitor it with a Scanguage). The solar panel in this case would have not been charging the battery much at all while driving since it was cloudy or raining for almost the entire trip. My engine battery seemed fine as usual. ?This would indicate to me either my house battery is failing or the MPPT is blocking the alternator from charging the battery. I¡¯m in Florida, and ordinarily the 100 watt solar panel charges the house battery fine, thus masking this issue. ?When I lived in cloudy Pennsylvania it would have been, but I never noticed the issue. ?I do wish I had invested in Lithium way back but it¡¯s hard to justify that with 290 kmi. on the van, even though it¡¯s doing well.
Thanks for the info. I had not heard that, but glad to hear they are not an issue in case I do go Lithium.
Phil B EV WE 290kmi
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If while driving you are not getting a chage (while the SG reds a chaging volatge) its becuase of teh failed Isolation relay contacts.
To test:? Idle engine
Access the coach battery.? It should read a charge voltage over 13V.?? If not, use a voltmeter.? If the isolation relay is working and energized, you should get the same voltage reading? (give or take a few MV)? at both HEAVY terminals front and back of the relay.Most of the legislation relay failures are dirty worn contacts.
To test Lead batteries before they are condemned.?
1) Use a load tester.? First isiolate the batteries.
2) AT HOME: After a 24 hour shore power charge, of 13,8 its charged.? If lower say 13.5V, it means they are still sagging the converter with high charge current.? Wit no battery l;oads on and still pon SP if the battery os 13.8 its fully chaged.
Then, isolate the batteries and wait at least 24 hours. A few days are better.? A good new battery would read unloaded isolated 12.6 to 12.7V? A worn but still good battery might read as low 12.4.? Below that, discard the battery.?
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@michael? ?If you have a BMV you want to check the manual about the relay/trigger circuit function - it puts out a 12V signal that you control with the software based on threshold settings in the monitor.? You can choose a voltage state or charge state? (relay voltage on at 13.3V or 20% charge etc.? I set mine up to turn on when the starter battery is above 13.5)? It takes some studying to sort out.??
I wired this output into the Cyrix connect trigger circuit.? Any relay will have a trigger circuit.? The Cyrix is programmed so it also has voltag detection on both sides but that has never worked right for me.? Most relays, use a trigger circuit from the ignition and close when the ignition is on and sending 12v.? ?
Which is fine and works well. I do like having the BMV managing it so that I can operate it somewhat manually (by changin one setting in the software) but it's not necessary.? One could quite easily put a switch inline with the 12v ignition on circuit.
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Here's a bit of discussion on the BMV relay:
https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/11062/using-the-bmv-712-to-switch-off-a-relay.html
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Indeed - my house battery relay failed, and I replaced it with the wrong model which failed, then tried to repair it, which also failed, then finally bought the correct replacement. The basic problem was that the contacts were corroded, providing a high resistance path, so house battery charging was not zero, but was quite poor.
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On Jun 5, 2021, at 9:10 AM, Burton Trattner < btrattner@...> wrote:
If while driving you are not getting a chage (while the SG reds a chaging volatge) its becuase of teh failed Isolation relay contacts.
To test:? Idle engine
Access the coach battery.? It should read a charge voltage over 13V.?? If not, use a voltmeter.? If the isolation relay is working and energized, you should get the same voltage reading? (give or take a few MV)? at both HEAVY terminals front and back of the relay.Most of the legislation relay failures are dirty worn contacts.
To test Lead batteries before they are condemned.?
1) Use a load tester.? First isiolate the batteries.
2) AT HOME: After a 24 hour shore power charge, of 13,8 its charged.? If lower say 13.5V, it means they are still sagging the converter with high charge current.? Wit no battery l;oads on and still pon SP if the battery os 13.8 its fully chaged.
Then, isolate the batteries and wait at least 24 hours. A few days are better.? A good new battery would read unloaded isolated 12.6 to 12.7V? A worn but still good battery might read as low 12.4.? Below that, discard the battery.?
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Mike:
Can a solar controller be left connected to the coach battery when the house AC charger is active?
My plan is to have a portable solar panel for occasional use when away from AC, which I would disconnect and store when it is not needed.
I think it can be done, but would appreciate your input
Thanks in advance
W. Li
95 EVC 5-speed
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The basic answer is "yes" - solar charge controllers (SCCs), and other chargers, including ones that run off 120VAC (such as the Magnetek, or a newer charger) as well as just the van's 12VDC alternator, can coexist happily. ??
In some cases you may encounter difficulties, but they are generally not dangerous: the more common issue would be that you end up with a slight undercharge. ?
As an example, my SCC wants to charge the house battery to 14.6V. ?But while driving, the house and starter batteries are connected by the relay so both are connected to the alternator. ?The alternator runs at a lower voltage (closer to 13.8V). ? At the end of a long day driving, the house battery may be only ~85% charged. ?Not perfect, but good enough.
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Mike:
Can a solar controller be left connected to the coach battery when the house AC charger is active?
My plan is to have a portable solar panel for occasional use when away from AC, which I would disconnect and store when it is not needed.
I think it can be done, but would appreciate your input
Thanks in advance
W. Li
95 EVC 5-speed
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Hey Mike,
A question on the comment about the battery?being only at ~85% SOC following a day of driving.? The alternator output at $13.4V is equivalent to the float charge voltage provided by either the 120VAC charger or solar charger and the purpose of float cycle is to keep a constant voltage on the battery to maintain full charge w/o overcharging.? My thinking was/is that the battery?would maintain it level of charge while driving if fully charged.? Can you help me understand why the SOC would drop tp 85% when driving?? There are trips where I am 3or 4 days off grid and would like to start at full SOC.? Maybe a battery disconnect for the house battery makes sense if departing with fully charged house battery.
Thanks!
On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 8:05 PM Michael Diehr < md03@...> wrote: The basic answer is "yes" - solar charge controllers (SCCs), and other chargers, including ones that run off 120VAC (such as the Magnetek, or a newer charger) as well as just the van's 12VDC alternator, can coexist happily. ??
In some cases you may encounter difficulties, but they are generally not dangerous: the more common issue would be that you end up with a slight undercharge. ?
As an example, my SCC wants to charge the house battery to 14.6V.? But while driving, the house and starter batteries are connected by the relay so both are connected to the alternator.? The alternator runs at a lower voltage (closer to 13.8V). ? At the end of a long day driving, the house battery may be only ~85% charged.? Not perfect, but good enough.
Mike:
Can a solar controller be left connected to the coach battery when the house AC charger is active?
My plan is to have a portable solar panel for occasional use when away from AC, which I would disconnect and store when it is not needed.
I think it can be done, but would appreciate your input
Thanks in advance
W. Li
95 EVC 5-speed
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Mike Stroobandt wrote: A question on the comment about the battery?being only at ~85% SOC following a day of driving.? The alternator output at $13.4V is equivalent to the float charge voltage provided by either the 120VAC charger or solar charger and the purpose of float cycle is to keep a constant voltage on the battery to maintain full charge w/o overcharging.? My thinking was/is that the battery?would maintain it level of charge while driving if fully charged.? Can you help me understand why the SOC would drop tp 85% when driving? There are significant voltage drops in the wiring. The alternator could be outputting 13.4v while driving, but only 13.0v of that gets to the battery. Voltage is actually a rather poor indicator of state-of-charge for a lead-acid battery. Voltage is affect not only by state-of-carge, but also by current flow in/out of the battery, temperature, type and age of the battery, and other factors. But with a sealed battery, that's about all we've got. A meter that measures amp-hours in/out is more accurate, but also more expensive. The best one I've found is the Xantrex Link-10 family (which used to be the Heart Interface Link-10, which used to be the Cruising Equipment E-Meter). They measure not only battery voltage, but also battery temperature, current, and count amphours in/out to provide a better estimate of state-of-charge. Lee Hart -- We aren't devoting nearly enough scientific research to find a cure for the most recent pandemic; contagious stupidity. -- paraphrased from Bill Watterson (creator of "Calvin and Hobbes") -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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I'm back in my van and now I see the issue I have with my setup.? ?I use the BMV 702 relay programming to manage the Cyrix. Li-charge.? ? I like having control from my phone and the ability to manually open and close the relay depending.? ? ? ?So, I have found that with my vehicle, if I set (the BMV-702)? relay to close at 13.4 volts coming from the starter battery then it connects the Cyrix charging when my engine is on and the alternator is putting out some volts.? ?But I then have to set it to 13. 3 or lower to open the relay back up when the engine shuts off.? Problem is, sometimes the starter battery has that surface charge and when I shut off the motor it stays above 13.3, stays closed and the starter is actually sucking charge from the house battery.? ?And the other day, I actually plugged in my solar before the relay opened and it just stayed closed all day, effectively over charging the starter battery.? ? I can't really set my parameters any lower or it won't charge from the alternator.? ? I guess the easy thing to do would just be to wire the Li-charge to an ignition on? wire tap like the original relay does.? But I would lose control from the app for times when I want to do some custom management.?
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-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart <leeahart@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 2:36 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] EVC Solar Power 2021
Mike Stroobandt wrote:
> A question on the comment about the battery?being only at ~85% SOC
> following a day of driving.? The alternator output at $13.4V is
> equivalent to the float charge voltage provided by either the 120VAC
> charger or solar charger and the purpose of float cycle is to keep a
> constant voltage on the battery to maintain full charge w/o
> overcharging.? My thinking was/is that the battery?would maintain it
> level of charge while driving if fully charged.? Can you help me
> understand why the SOC would drop tp 85% when driving?
There are significant voltage drops in the wiring. The alternator could
be outputting 13.4v while driving, but only 13.0v of that gets to the
battery.
Voltage is actually a rather poor indicator of state-of-charge for a
lead-acid battery. Voltage is affect not only by state-of-carge, but
also by current flow in/out of the battery, temperature, type and age of
the battery, and other factors. But with a sealed battery, that's about
all we've got.
A meter that measures amp-hours in/out is more accurate, but also more
expensive. The best one I've found is the Xantrex Link-10 family (which
used to be the Heart Interface Link-10, which used to be the Cruising
Equipment E-Meter). They measure not only battery voltage, but also
battery temperature, current, and count amphours in/out to provide a
better estimate of state-of-charge.
Lee Hart
--
We aren't devoting nearly enough scientific research to find a cure for
the most recent pandemic; contagious stupidity.
? ? -- paraphrased from Bill Watterson (creator of "Calvin and Hobbes")
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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I have my BMV relay set to activate a Cyrix LI-CT (not the LI-charge) based on leisure battery charge level.??It is only able to charge once the battery drops below a certain point and then cuts off when it¡¯s full.??This does change the battery icon range unfortunately, so that shows empty at a low discharge level but the % gauge is still ok.
On 8 Aug 2021, 03:53 +0200, Steve via groups.io <seaweedsteve@...>, wrote:
I'm back in my van and now I see the issue I have with my setup.? ?I use the BMV 702 relay programming to manage the Cyrix. Li-charge.? ? I like having control from my phone and the ability to manually open and close the relay depending.? ? ? ?So, I have found that with my vehicle, if I set (the BMV-702)? relay to close at 13.4 volts coming from the starter battery then it connects the Cyrix charging when my engine is on and the alternator is putting out some volts.? ?But I then have to set it to 13. 3 or lower to open the relay back up when the engine shuts off.? Problem is, sometimes the starter battery has that surface charge and when I shut off the motor it stays above 13.3, stays closed and the starter is actually sucking charge from the house battery.? ?And the other day, I actually plugged in my solar before the relay opened and it just stayed closed all day, effectively over charging the starter battery.? ? I can't really set my parameters any lower or it won't charge from the alternator.? ? I guess the easy thing to do would just be to wire the Li-charge to an ignition on? wire tap like the original relay does.? But I would lose control from the app for times when I want to do some custom management.?
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It might be a bad solar controller.? When on shore power, long term, the converter output drifts up to 13.8V That is a safe charging voltage.?
Understand that the converter is regulated at 13.8 (at light or no load), but that's whats measured at the battery when the batteries are fully charged? to 12.8V? (after a half hour for the SURFACE CHARGE bleeds off)?
If the batteries were discharged down to 12.2 for example, the converter voltage will sag lower due to the higher current output.? After a 24 hr whole day on shore power, you should read 13.8 volts while still connected. But If you immediately unplug from shore power, you still will read above 12.8 until that surface charge bleeds off.
There are several ways to test the health of the battery.? Best is after a full charge, disconnect/isolate the battery from all sources.? Immediately log down the measured voltage.. then you will get a fakse reading above 13.0 you have to wait for the surface charge to bleed off.
Wait 24 hours or better 48 hours.? Check the voltage again.? If it still read 12.6 or more its i holding the charge.? I fit drops to 12.4, its worn but still serviceable. with reduced capacity.? If after 48 hours its 12.3 the battery should be replaced..
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Lee Hart