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Need 16” tire recommendation

 
Edited

I know I should have been taking notes as things were posted and tried to learn/understand the whole tire conundrum, but I thought I had more time—and now just need a couple of quick recommendations given I am not learned on tire lingo, as I got a flat/nail puncture on a rear and in the process noticed wear down to the cords on the inside of a different front tire…

I have Michelin‘s 16 inch when we lifted and leveled from GoWesty on our 2000 Eurovan loaded camper, living in Northern California and doing various basic camping trips on unpaved and unpaid (no snow), etc.

We just moved and tire place we went to suggested Hankook 235/65 16” E load, 40,000 mile rated. He said the Michelin Defender‘s I have currently (235/60R16 100T) are available but not rated for van’s gross weight. SAYS I WILL HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER TO PUT THAT SAME TIRE BACK ON. When we lifted vehicle we had to adjust it pretty high as wheel well was rubbing tire on tight turns. He says the Hankook’s he is recommending are taller (hopefully not wider as I suspect that would be problematic), so not sure if taller would throw of balance of van on turns, though I always appreciate better clearance!

Fine to go with his recommendation with better load rating, replace with same I have currently, or try and find something else? Any advice greatly appreciated!
Sheri
 

I just put Vredestein Quadracs on my ‘02 Weekender, 225/60R16, load rated 102.? I can’t say yet how good they are, but they do have excellent reviews.? Made in the Netherlands.



On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 5:04 PM Sheri Ketchum <sheriketchum@...> wrote:
I know I should have been taking notes as things were posted and tried to learn/understand the whole tire conundrum, but I thought I had more time—and now just need a couple of quick recommendations as I got a flat/nail puncture on a rear and in the process noticed wear down to the cords on the inside of a front different tire…

I have Michelin‘s 16 inch when we lifted and leveled from GoWesty on our 2000 Eurovan loaded camper, living in Northern California and doing various basic camping trips on unpaved and unpaid (no snow), etc.

We just moved and tire place we went to suggested Hankook 235/65 16” E load, 40,000 mile rated. He said the Michelin‘s I have on our available but not rated for gross weight. When we lifted vehicle we had to adjust it pretty high as wheel well was rubbing tire on tight turns.

Fine to go with his recommendation, replace with current, or try and find something else? Any advice greatly appreciated!
Sheri
 

Not sure of all the sizes available but I needed tires in a hurry for my Sunstar. Purchased ATTURO CV400 215/65R 16 -fronts and NOKIAN cLINE 225/65R 16. They have load ratings of 109/107 and 112/110.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 8:54 PM Ricki-Ellen <rickiellen@...> wrote:
I just put Vredestein Quadracs on my ‘02 Weekender, 225/60R16, load rated 102.? I can’t say yet how good they are, but they do have excellent reviews.? Made in the Netherlands.



On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 5:04 PM Sheri Ketchum <sheriketchum@...> wrote:
I know I should have been taking notes as things were posted and tried to learn/understand the whole tire conundrum, but I thought I had more time—and now just need a couple of quick recommendations as I got a flat/nail puncture on a rear and in the process noticed wear down to the cords on the inside of a front different tire…

I have Michelin‘s 16 inch when we lifted and leveled from GoWesty on our 2000 Eurovan loaded camper, living in Northern California and doing various basic camping trips on unpaved and unpaid (no snow), etc.

We just moved and tire place we went to suggested Hankook 235/65 16” E load, 40,000 mile rated. He said the Michelin‘s I have on our available but not rated for gross weight. When we lifted vehicle we had to adjust it pretty high as wheel well was rubbing tire on tight turns.

Fine to go with his recommendation, replace with current, or try and find something else? Any advice greatly appreciated!
Sheri
 

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My short list from a coupe months ago:?

Michelin CrossClimate+ 215/60/16 99V
Vredestein Quatrac 225/60/16 102H
Kumho Crugen HT51 215/65/16 102T

For offroad/all terrain:?

Yokohama Geolandar AT G015 235/60/16 100H?
Toyo Open Country AT III 215/65/16?
BFG TA K02 215/65/16


On Jun 30, 2022, at 15:40, sheriketchum@... wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Added further details on current tire options. ]

I know I should have been taking notes as things were posted and tried to learn/understand the whole tire conundrum, but I thought I had more time—and now just need a couple of quick recommendations given I am not learned on tire lingo, as I got a flat/nail puncture on a rear and in the process noticed wear down to the cords on the inside of a different front tire…

I have Michelin‘s 16 inch when we lifted and leveled from GoWesty on our 2000 Eurovan loaded camper, living in Northern California and doing various basic camping trips on unpaved and unpaid (no snow), etc.

We just moved and tire place we went to suggested Hankook 235/65 16” E load, 40,000 mile rated. He said the Michelin Defender‘s I have currently (235/60R16 100T) are available but not rated for van’s gross weight. SAYS I WILL HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER TO PUT THAT SAME TIRE BACK ON. When we lifted vehicle we had to adjust it pretty high as wheel well was rubbing tire on tight turns. He says the Hankook’s he is recommending are taller (hopefully not wider as I suspect that would be problematic), so not sure if taller would throw of balance of van on turns, though I always appreciate better clearance!

Fine to go with his recommendation with better load rating, replace with same I have currently, or try and find something else? Any advice greatly appreciated!
Sheri
 

A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.
?
The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
?
1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
?
A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
?
You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
?
For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
?
I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:? https://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Transforce-Highway-Terrain-Commercial/dp/B07FB21S8C/ref=pd_vtp_sccl_1_2/142-6208057-8788540

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

I'm running 235x60x16 Michelin Defenders on my '97 EVC and the load index is 100.
I drive primarily highway and rarely off road. I run them at 42lb. psi.
With fuel costs being close to $5 gallon I want the best mileage I can get, usually around 20.
I used to run 15 inch Michelin Agilis tires at 45lbs. psi. they were wonderful long
lasting, trouble free tires but rode like, as others have commented, cement donuts.
If you plan on being off road, I'd recommend the Crugens with 102 l04 load rating.

Kent Kirkley




-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Need 16” tire recommendation

A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.
?
The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
?
1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
?
A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
?
You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
?
For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
?
I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:? https://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Transforce-Highway-Terrain-Commercial/dp/B07FB21S8C/ref=pd_vtp_sccl_1_2/142-6208057-8788540

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

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I have a 1995 Eurovan and I run;
Continental 195/70R 15C ? 104/102R 97T
They have worked well for me

On Jul 1, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Kent Kirkley via groups.io <kgkirkley@...> wrote:

?
I'm running 235x60x16 Michelin Defenders on my '97 EVC and the load index is 100.
I drive primarily highway and rarely off road. I run them at 42lb. psi.
With fuel costs being close to $5 gallon I want the best mileage I can get, usually around 20.
I used to run 15 inch Michelin Agilis tires at 45lbs. psi. they were wonderful long
lasting, trouble free tires but rode like, as others have commented, cement donuts.
If you plan on being off road, I'd recommend the Crugens with 102 l04 load rating.

Kent Kirkley




-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Need 16” tire recommendation

A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.
?
The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
?
1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
?
A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
?
You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
?
For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
?
I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:? https://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Transforce-Highway-Terrain-Commercial/dp/B07FB21S8C/ref=pd_vtp_sccl_1_2/142-6208057-8788540

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

Jonathan,

We also run the Continental Vanco's in a 15-inch. What's the recommended pressure that you're using? I run them at about 48PSI.

Thanks,

David
2000 EVC

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 01:00:18 PM PDT, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...> wrote:


A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.
?
The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
?
1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
?
A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
?
You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
?
For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
?
I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:? https://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Transforce-Highway-Terrain-Commercial/dp/B07FB21S8C/ref=pd_vtp_sccl_1_2/142-6208057-8788540

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

Normally 45 front? 41 rear even when not loaded because I'm really bad at remembering to increase pressure when I load up the van.

For the record, the door sticker recommends 41 front 36 rear when lightly loaded.

- Jonathan


On Friday, July 1, 2022, 02:15:23 PM PDT, monicact@... <monicact@...> wrote:


Jonathan,

We also run the Continental Vanco's in a 15-inch. What's the recommended pressure that you're using? I run them at about 48PSI.

Thanks,

David
2000 EVC

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 01:00:18 PM PDT, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...> wrote:


A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.
?
The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
?
1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
?
A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
?
You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
?
For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
?
I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:? https://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Transforce-Highway-Terrain-Commercial/dp/B07FB21S8C/ref=pd_vtp_sccl_1_2/142-6208057-8788540

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

I'm amazed at all of you running (what seem to me to be) low tire pressures.

On my 2000 EVC (which was upgraded by the PO to 16" wheels) I have to run 48-50psi all around. Anything lower and the van feels like it's really unsteady. I had this with my prior hankook ice bears, and with my current Nokian WR-C, both were 102 load rating.

I believe my shocks are good (Bilstein HDs installed about 20k miles ago).

Is this typical, or could there be something else in my suspension which is loose / worn?

On Jul 1, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...> wrote:

Normally 45 front 41 rear even when not loaded because I'm really bad at remembering to increase pressure when I load up the van.

For the record, the door sticker recommends 41 front 36 rear when lightly loaded.

- Jonathan


On Friday, July 1, 2022, 02:15:23 PM PDT, monicact@... <monicact@...> wrote:


Jonathan,

We also run the Continental Vanco's in a 15-inch. What's the recommended pressure that you're using? I run them at about 48PSI.

Thanks,

David
2000 EVC

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 01:00:18 PM PDT, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...> wrote:


A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.

The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.

1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.

A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865

You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.

For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.

I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

My 1999 EVC runs straight and smooth at the recommended pressures. The Nokian WR-C is 6-ply, and the Continental Vanco is a much stiffer tire at (I think) 10-ply. But if you are running higher pressures and that works for you, I would go with it.
I did run some eNtyres for a short while, they were 99 load rating. I had to overpressure them to get rid of the sqishiness you mentioned. One of my kids came back from a road trip with tread separation on the right front and at that point I switched to the Vancos on the recommendation of my local tire shop.? I learned that on a Eurovan full camper loaded up, tires are not the place where you would want to save money.

Does anyone know what the original OEM tire specification was?

- Jonathan



On Friday, July 1, 2022, 03:21:58 PM PDT, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:


I'm amazed at all of you running (what seem to me to be) low tire pressures.?

On my 2000 EVC (which was upgraded by the PO to 16" wheels) I have to run 48-50psi all around.? Anything lower and the van feels like it's really unsteady.? I had this with my prior hankook ice bears, and with my current Nokian WR-C, both were 102 load rating.

I believe my shocks are good (Bilstein HDs installed about 20k miles ago).

Is this typical, or could there be something else in my suspension which is loose / worn?


> On Jul 1, 2022, at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Normally 45 front? 41 rear even when not loaded because I'm really bad at remembering to increase pressure when I load up the van.
>
> For the record, the door sticker recommends 41 front 36 rear when lightly loaded.
>
> - Jonathan
>
>
> On Friday, July 1, 2022, 02:15:23 PM PDT, monicact@... <monicact@...> wrote:
>
>
> Jonathan,
>
> We also run the Continental Vanco's in a 15-inch. What's the recommended pressure that you're using? I run them at about 48PSI.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
> 2000 EVC
>
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 01:00:18 PM PDT, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie=[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
> with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
> Norther California also.
>?
> The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
>?
> 1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
>?
> A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
>?
> You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
>?
> For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
> 1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
>?
> I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
> capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
> 'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
> 2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
> I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:?
>
> - Jonathan 1999 EVC
>
>






 

The 235/65 is the same width but taller than the 235/60. The 235 is the width of the tire in millimeters. The 65 or 60 is the height of the tire relative to the width. So the height of the 65 tire is 153mm or 6 inches high (235x65/100=153).

Something that I've never seen discussed is the width that will fit and allow the slider door to open. I have 230/60/16 tires and my slider clears the tire by less than 1/4". It will also depend on the offset of the wheel, which can be adjusted with spacers. I don't know what I have.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of sheriketchum@...
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [eurovanupdate] Need 16” tire recommendation

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Added further details on current tire options. ]

I know I should have been taking notes as things were posted and tried to learn/understand the whole tire conundrum, but I thought I had more time—and now just need a couple of quick recommendations given I am not learned on tire lingo, as I got a flat/nail puncture on a rear and in the process noticed wear down to the cords on the inside of a different front tire…

I have Michelin‘s 16 inch when we lifted and leveled from GoWesty on our 2000 Eurovan loaded camper, living in Northern California and doing various basic camping trips on unpaved and unpaid (no snow), etc.

We just moved and tire place we went to suggested Hankook 235/65 16” E load, 40,000 mile rated. He said the Michelin Defender‘s I have currently (235/60R16 100T) are available but not rated for van’s gross weight. SAYS I WILL HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER TO PUT THAT SAME TIRE BACK ON. When we lifted vehicle we had to adjust it pretty high as wheel well was rubbing tire on tight turns. He says the Hankook’s he is recommending are taller (hopefully not wider as I suspect that would be problematic), so not sure if taller would throw of balance of van on turns, though I always appreciate better clearance!

Fine to go with his recommendation with better load rating, replace with same I have currently, or try and find something else? Any advice greatly appreciated!
Sheri
Barry Grosman
 

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You might want to read?
We are using Continental ?VancoFourSeason??205/65 R 15 C (102T)
?with Bilstein shocks and have been happy. (This tire may not no longer available in this size). Our mechanic would not provide a safety certificate for our van unless we had properly load rated truck tires on our van.
Barry?

Take care,
Barry?

On Jul 1, 2022, at 5:15 PM, monicact@... wrote:

?
Jonathan,

We also run the Continental Vanco's in a 15-inch. What's the recommended pressure that you're using? I run them at about 48PSI.

Thanks,

David
2000 EVC

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 01:00:18 PM PDT, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...> wrote:


A lot of people in this group (including me) have suffered tread separation
with Michelin Entyre, not sure if this also applies to the Defenders. I am in
Norther California also.
?
The load index for Michelin Defender is 95 which is 1521 lbs.
?
1521 x 4 is 6,084 lbs total load.
?
A Eurovan Camper is 4,478 plus payload capacity of 1387 lbs = 5,865
?
You would have to run the Michelins at max pressure or close to it, and I wonder if a waiver would affect the warranty.
?
For comparison the Vredestein Quatrac 225/60 R16 102H load index is 102 which is 1874 lbs.
1874 x 4 is 7,496 lbs total load.
?
I currently use Continental Vanco Four Season in the 15 inch size. They have a load
capacity of 2998 lbs. I run Bilstein shock absorbers which take away some of the
'concrete doughnut' feel of commercial light truck tires and can run them at the recommended pressure.
2998 x 4 is 11,992 lbs.
I have had them on for 10 years plus and if I had to replace them tomorrow I would look at getting a commercial light truck tire, maybe something like these:? https://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Transforce-Highway-Terrain-Commercial/dp/B07FB21S8C/ref=pd_vtp_sccl_1_2/142-6208057-8788540

- Jonathan 1999 EVC
 

"tread separation
with Michelin Entyre,?"

Most reported tread separations were with the Nokian Entyre.
 

You are right they were Nokian Entyre, my bad.? ?One of the threads was here:??/g/eurovanupdate/topic/86096034

- Jonathan



On Saturday, July 2, 2022, 09:25:11 AM PDT, Steve via groups.io <seaweedsteve@...> wrote:


"tread separation
with Michelin Entyre,?"

Most reported tread separations were with the Nokian Entyre.
 

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I hope I am replying the correct way… THANK YOU so much everyone for your input. It was exceptionally helpful, all the links and suggestions… And the winner is: ?

Kumho Crugen HT51?235/60R16 104T XL/4 Ply BSW Tire


Now to figure out PSI! :-)
Sheri
 

36 PSI front and 42 PSI rear. Well within any spec and is the best MPG vs Comfort setting I have found for ours. Just upgraded to 17” rims with 225/65/17s. Trying to find tune them. Good choice on tire. Very similar to a Michelin LTX which unfortunately is not made in our size and load rating. GL

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 8:30 PM Sheri Ketchum <sheriketchum@...> wrote:
I hope I am replying the correct way… THANK YOU so much everyone for your input. It was exceptionally helpful, all the links and suggestions… And the winner is: ?

Kumho Crugen HT51?235/60R16 104T XL/4 Ply BSW Tire


Now to figure out PSI! :-)
Sheri
 

开云体育

I have 16 inch Michelin Defenders on my rig. I tried Nokians but they didn’t last long. After I ordered my Michelins the tire shop started to carry them. 0

OK, . Not big enough for a rig but big enough for me.

?

?

Chandler 97 EVC soon to be for sale, maybe

?

?

Sent from for Windows

?

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