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Retrofit GM 215-464 Vapor Canister to 1997-2000 Eurovan

 

Here's my writeup of retrofitting a GM Vapor Canister on my 2000 Eurovan Winnebago camper:



So far, it's working great, but I've only put about 100 miles on the van.

I'm happy to answer questions here on the mailing list

I'm curious if this would work with the Weekender or MV versions of the Eurovan: Those vans are shorter than the Winnebago camper, but they also have fewer parts (propane tank, gray water...) under the body.
 

Here's my writeup of retrofitting a GM Vapor Canister on my 2000 Eurovan
Winnebago camper:
Nice write up, Michael. About how long did the job take?
 

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On Jun 26, 2022, at 10:29 AM, The Bus Depot <bd@...> wrote:

Here's my writeup of retrofitting a GM Vapor Canister on my 2000 Eurovan
Winnebago camper:

Nice write up, Michael. About how long did the job take?

Thanks! From soup to nuts, about 3 days, but that included multiple trips to buy parts and tools...

If you had all parts and tools on hand, I would estimate one 8 hour day.

Having done it once, I could probably do it again in 4 hours.

In any case, it's definitely less?time than it would take to cut open, clean, and repair the stock canister.
 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 02:31 PM, Michael Diehr wrote:
In any case, it's definitely less?time than it would take to cut open, clean, and repair the stock canister.
And more reliable? ;>)? (I tried to rebuild a canister on a late model Rialta and it took 3 tries to get it to stay sealed. )
--
Duane
05HD Rialta
216K Miles
 

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Haha! Reliable? I'm literally on day 2 of this modification, though day 1 did involve a drive from sea level to 5000' elevation in 90F+ temperatures with no drama.

So far I'm pretty hopeful. ?

One issue for the future is passing smog/emissions checks. ?

The last time I took my 2000 EVC to get smogged in California, they did not?do a tailpipe test, which was different. ?
Instead, they checked OBD2 codes and did a visual inspection. ? ?

I'm pretty sure this modification will pass ODB2 checks, but not sure about visual inspection. ? ??

My plan right now is to keep the old canister in case I need to swap it back in to pass smog.


On Jun 26, 2022, at 1:31 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 02:31 PM, Michael Diehr wrote:
In any case, it's definitely less?time than it would take to cut open, clean, and repair the stock canister.
And more reliable? ;>)? (I tried to rebuild a canister on a late model Rialta and it took 3 tries to get it to stay sealed. )
--
Duane
05HD Rialta
216K Miles

 

This is something I’ve been interested in. You mention the OEM part is different between years, but any thoughts or resources about what might be different for this project on a 2002 EVC??

Thanks for the write up.?

Andrew R
 

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Hi Andrew,

Great question.

I know only my 2000 EVC, so I can't comment with authority...?

I believe the emissions systems are very different between model years. ?For example, here's the whole system (canister and LDP...) from a 2001-2003 model:


And here's the canister from my 2000:



I think the 2001-2003 design is more sensible: the canister is larger, not in the wheel well, and is right next to other parts such as the LDP.

I don't know if the?function?is the same, however, so what works on the older models may not work on the newer?




On Jun 29, 2022, at 12:09 PM, eurovancruiser via <buildingf22@...> wrote:

This is something I’ve been interested in. You mention the OEM part is different between years, but any thoughts or resources about what might be different for this project on a 2002 EVC??

Thanks for the write up.?

Andrew R
 

I'm back from another trip, and happy to report the canister replacement is working great. I've driven about 750 miles with it, and done two stress tests: where I drove from sea level to 5000' elevation in 95F temps, and another where I drove to 5000' in about 100F temps, filled up with gas, and immediately drove up to 7500'.

In the past, these situations would have resulted in tons of gasoline fumes, but with the 215-464 canister, it behaved normally.

I'm going to call this a "reliable" fix so far.
 

Nice work Michael, and thanks for the writeups!

- Jonathan


On Sunday, July 3, 2022, 02:11:35 PM PDT, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:


I'm back from another trip, and happy to report the canister replacement is working great.? I've driven about 750 miles with it, and done two stress tests:? where I drove from sea level to 5000' elevation in 95F temps, and another where I drove to 5000' in about 100F temps, filled up with gas, and immediately drove up to 7500'.?

In the past, these situations would have resulted in tons of gasoline fumes, but with the 215-464 canister, it behaved normally.?

I'm going to call this a "reliable" fix so far.
 

I'm downgrading this from "reliable" to "mostly reliable":

I'm back from a longer more challenging trip and have mostly success to report, but one failure: After a multi hour drive in temperatures that hit 108F at one point, I filled up with gas at around 4000' elevation, and then drove another 60 miles (in 100F+ temperatures) and ended the drive with final quick uphill to 7500' over about 10 miles. When I stopped the van there was a strong smell of gas, and fumes were escaping from under the van, near the gas tank and my GM vapor canister. There were also gurgling noises, as if the gas in the tank were boiling. I opened the gas cap and there was some pressure release (but not as much as in prior years before this modification). In about a minute everything was OK again, and the rest of the trip was uneventful. There was no smell of gasoline in the engine compartment, nor around the gas cap.

I could not tell whether I had a loose connection to the vapor canister or the gas fumes were venting from some other location.

As I understand it, the entire fuel system is supposed to remain sealed normally. But I assume there must be a pressure release mechanism in case of overpressure, right? If there is an overpressure vent, where is it located? Is it possible that even in a perfectly functional eurovan, extremes of temperature + altitude could overwhelm the vapor canister and cause venting?

On Jul 3, 2022, at 2:11 PM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

I'm back from another trip, and happy to report the canister replacement is working great. I've driven about 750 miles with it, and done two stress tests: where I drove from sea level to 5000' elevation in 95F temps, and another where I drove to 5000' in about 100F temps, filled up with gas, and immediately drove up to 7500'.

In the past, these situations would have resulted in tons of gasoline fumes, but with the 215-464 canister, it behaved normally.

I'm going to call this a "reliable" fix so far.
 

That sounds like a pretty good stress test. I would have expected the check engine light to come on, or at least it could throw an evap code.

Is there a chance that some charcoal dust made its way into the N80 valve filter?

- Jonathan

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 09:59:05 AM PDT, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:


I'm downgrading this from "reliable" to "mostly reliable":

I'm back from a longer more challenging trip and have mostly success to report, but one failure:? After a multi hour drive in temperatures that hit 108F at one point, I filled up with gas at around 4000' elevation, and then drove another 60 miles (in 100F+ temperatures) and ended the drive with final quick uphill to 7500' over about 10 miles.? When I stopped the van there was a strong smell of gas, and fumes were escaping from under the van, near the gas tank and my GM vapor canister.? There were also gurgling noises, as if the gas in the tank were boiling.? I opened the gas cap and there was some pressure release (but not as much as in prior years before this modification).? In about a minute everything was OK again, and the rest of the trip was uneventful.? There was no smell of gasoline in the engine compartment, nor around the gas cap.

I could not tell whether I had a loose connection to the vapor canister or the gas fumes were venting from some other location.

As I understand it, the entire fuel system is supposed to remain sealed normally.? But I assume there must be a pressure release mechanism in case of overpressure, right?? If there is an overpressure vent, where is it located?? Is it possible that even in a perfectly functional eurovan, extremes of temperature + altitude could overwhelm the vapor canister and cause venting?


> On Jul 3, 2022, at 2:11 PM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:
>
> I'm back from another trip, and happy to report the canister replacement is working great.? I've driven about 750 miles with it, and done two stress tests:? where I drove from sea level to 5000' elevation in 95F temps, and another where I drove to 5000' in about 100F temps, filled up with gas, and immediately drove up to 7500'.?
>
> In the past, these situations would have resulted in tons of gasoline fumes, but with the 215-464 canister, it behaved normally.?
>
> I'm going to call this a "reliable" fix so far.
>
>
>
>






 

Good ideas, Jonathan:

- no CEL and no codes per VAG-Com, so I don't think I have a leak

- this post on cavevam.com has a great writeup of the 2000 Evap system:

According to this, the N-115 valve connects to the vent, and is open when the van is not running. I can't remember if the gas smell was there before I turned off the engine, or after. That seems important?

- N80 - ironically, during this saga, I replaced my N80 a few weeks ago with a generic part from NAPA. It was either defective, or a piece of junk. When I tested it manually (by applying 12V and blowing through it) I discovered (A) it was backwards (the air would flow only the wrong direction with 12V applied) and (B) even when off, it leaked. So I put the old N80 back on which seems to work fine. I did purchase a brand new N80, but haven't yet installed it. Might be worth it?

Mike

On Jul 26, 2022, at 1:21 PM, Jonathan Mackenzie via groups.io <jonathanmackenzie@...> wrote:

That sounds like a pretty good stress test. I would have expected the check engine light to come on, or at least it could throw an evap code.

Is there a chance that some charcoal dust made its way into the N80 valve filter?

- Jonathan

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 09:59:05 AM PDT, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:


I'm downgrading this from "reliable" to "mostly reliable":

I'm back from a longer more challenging trip and have mostly success to report, but one failure: After a multi hour drive in temperatures that hit 108F at one point, I filled up with gas at around 4000' elevation, and then drove another 60 miles (in 100F+ temperatures) and ended the drive with final quick uphill to 7500' over about 10 miles. When I stopped the van there was a strong smell of gas, and fumes were escaping from under the van, near the gas tank and my GM vapor canister. There were also gurgling noises, as if the gas in the tank were boiling. I opened the gas cap and there was some pressure release (but not as much as in prior years before this modification). In about a minute everything was OK again, and the rest of the trip was uneventful. There was no smell of gasoline in the engine compartment, nor around the gas cap.

I could not tell whether I had a loose connection to the vapor canister or the gas fumes were venting from some other location.

As I understand it, the entire fuel system is supposed to remain sealed normally. But I assume there must be a pressure release mechanism in case of overpressure, right? If there is an overpressure vent, where is it located? Is it possible that even in a perfectly functional eurovan, extremes of temperature + altitude could overwhelm the vapor canister and cause venting?


On Jul 3, 2022, at 2:11 PM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

I'm back from another trip, and happy to report the canister replacement is working great. I've driven about 750 miles with it, and done two stress tests: where I drove from sea level to 5000' elevation in 95F temps, and another where I drove to 5000' in about 100F temps, filled up with gas, and immediately drove up to 7500'.

In the past, these situations would have resulted in tons of gasoline fumes, but with the 215-464 canister, it behaved normally.

I'm going to call this a "reliable" fix so far.
Phil
 

Mike
As to Charcoal dust clogging the N-80:
I would suggest you add a filter just before (to drivers left of N-80). NAPA PART 3002 fits well. Duane came up with this years ago. Simply cut out a very small section of hose- about an inch & a half to two inches - and insert the filter. There are many old style gas filters that do the job. Works great to avoid the charcoal dust from the canister from clogging the N-80. ?Simple and cheap, and readily available, and you can see into the filter- replace when it is obviously dirty. Happy Trails.
Phil B 2003 EV WE 321kmi
 

Good advice Phil, a see-through filter makes so much sense.

I found a YT video about the VW N-80 valve and modes of failure and hey presto, at 4:04 a little thimble filter pops out of the canister side hose connector.



I was thinking that maybe if this is partially blocked it might lead to mild excessive pressure while not triggering the fuel tank pressure valve (and hence not triggering a diagnostic code).

When it gets to be my turn to replace the evap canister, I'll plan to extract this thimble filter and do the 'Duane mod' by substituting a NAPA PART 3002 on the canister side of the N-80.

Michael, thanks for these great write ups, they pave the way for the rest of us.

- Jonathan



On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 04:37:57 AM PDT, Phil <apothecarymortar@...> wrote:


Mike
As to Charcoal dust clogging the N-80:
I would suggest you add a filter just before (to drivers left of N-80). NAPA PART 3002 fits well. Duane came up with this years ago. Simply cut out a very small section of hose- about an inch & a half to two inches - and insert the filter. There are many old style gas filters that do the job. Works great to avoid the charcoal dust from the canister from clogging the N-80. ?Simple and cheap, and readily available, and you can see into the filter- replace when it is obviously dirty. Happy Trails.
Phil B 2003 EV WE 321kmi
 

An update on the saga. See for the backstory.

My 2000 EVC with the GM retrofitted vapor canister was due for a smog check. I took it to the local guy who is friendly and has seen the van before, and asked him "will this pass"? He said that it would not pass visual inspection, but there is a referee process one could use to try to get approval. However, he's mostly seen people trying to get non OEM catalytic converters approved, and has never heard of anybody getting a non-OEM vapor canister approved. His opinion was that it would be difficult, because (A) it's a GM part and (B) it's in a different location than stock.

In any case, I told him that I had the original canister which was in (somewhat) working condition. He said that if I brought the van in with no OBD II faults and all readiness codes set, with the OEM canister installed, it would pass.

So that's what I did. I left the GM canister in place, zip tied the hoses up out of the way, and re-installed the WV canister. It took about 30 minutes to swap it and pass smog.

I have 2 years till the next smog check, so that gives some time to decide what to do next - perhaps some third party will start making these parts again? Perhaps I'll try the referee process?

Mike
 

Mike,
Do you happen to know the VW part number?

Yanni


On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 12:33 PM, Michael Diehr
<md03@...> wrote:
An update on the saga.? See for the backstory.

My 2000 EVC with the GM retrofitted vapor canister was due for a smog check.? I took it to the local guy who is friendly and has seen the van before, and asked him "will this pass"?? He said that it would not pass visual inspection, but there is a referee process one could use to try to get approval.? However, he's mostly seen people trying to get non OEM catalytic converters approved, and has never heard of anybody getting a non-OEM vapor canister approved.? His opinion was that it would be difficult, because (A) it's a GM part and (B) it's in a different location than stock.

In any case, I told him that I had the original canister which was in (somewhat) working condition.? He said that if I brought the van in with no OBD II faults and all readiness codes set, with the OEM canister installed, it would pass.

So that's what I did.? I left the GM canister in place, zip tied the hoses up out of the way, and re-installed the WV canister.? It took about 30 minutes to swap it and pass smog.?

I have 2 years till the next smog check, so that gives some time to decide what to do next - perhaps some third party will start making these parts again?? Perhaps I'll try the referee process?

Mike
 

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VW Part number is 7D0201801?

Of interest, the part is showing as "AVAILABLE FOR ORDER" on :?


I'm very skeptical it's actually available, but if anyone needs one, perhaps you should try ordering, and let us know if it's really available or just "vaporware" (haha)

Mike


On Dec 14, 2022, at 10:11 AM, evripos via <evripos@...> wrote:

Mike,
Do you happen to know the VW part number?

Yanni


On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 12:33 PM, Michael Diehr
<md03@...> wrote:
An update on the saga.? See for the backstory.

My 2000 EVC with the GM retrofitted vapor canister was due for a smog check.? I took it to the local guy who is friendly and has seen the van before, and asked him "will this pass"?? He said that it would not pass visual inspection, but there is a referee process one could use to try to get approval.? However, he's mostly seen people trying to get non OEM catalytic converters approved, and has never heard of anybody getting a non-OEM vapor canister approved.? His opinion was that it would be difficult, because (A) it's a GM part and (B) it's in a different location than stock.

In any case, I told him that I had the original canister which was in (somewhat) working condition.? He said that if I brought the van in with no OBD II faults and all readiness codes set, with the OEM canister installed, it would pass.

So that's what I did.? I left the GM canister in place, zip tied the hoses up out of the way, and re-installed the WV canister.? It took about 30 minutes to swap it and pass smog.?

I have 2 years till the next smog check, so that gives some time to decide what to do next - perhaps some third party will start making these parts again?? Perhaps I'll try the referee process?

Mike

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