On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, sam letzring <sletz@...> wrote:

Could be dirty fuel injectors! Might try a can od whatever solvent Autozone/etc. sells and see if that helps. Old gas can be a real problem!

Sam

02 EVC

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

After sheltering in place for much of the COVID epidemic, decided to go get the 2000 Eurovan smog checked today. While driving there, it started running very rough and the Check Engine Light started blinking. I drove home and pulled these codes:

P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Details:
- 2000 Eurovan Camper with 108K miles
- before today, the van had not been driven substantially since November
- it is humid and raining lightly today, and in the past I've had similar misfires after I had washed the engine compartment.
- But the engine is dry (there were no puddles on the ground).
- the gasoline in the van is probably 6 months (?) old, at about 1/2 tank
- Coil Pack and spark plug wires were replaced 5000 miles ago at VW dealer (presumably, using OEM parts)

Any advice where to start?

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:57 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

Thanks, Sam,

- Dirty Injectors / bad fuel: definitely possible, and running a can of injector cleaner through would be a cheap test.

Other details:

- I went over my service records, and although the spark plug wires and coils are new as of 5k miles ago, the spark plugs themselves are 25K miles old. This doesn't sound that bad, except 25k miles ago was nearly 10 years ago (I really don't drive this van much.)

- I let the van idle in the driveway for about 20 minutes - very gassy smelling exhaust. Or do injectors fail in a way that can release too much fuel into the cylinder?

- I kept clearing the codes and the same three came back repeatedly (P0300, P0302, P0306). Does this suggest it's a Spark problem rather than an Injector problem?

- after about 20 minutes, the misfires stopped happening, and the codes did not come back.

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, sam letzring <sletz@...> wrote:

Could be dirty fuel injectors! Might try a can od whatever solvent Autozone/etc. sells and see if that helps. Old gas can be a real problem!

Sam

02 EVC

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

After sheltering in place for much of the COVID epidemic, decided to go get the 2000 Eurovan smog checked today. While driving there, it started running very rough and the Check Engine Light started blinking. I drove home and pulled these codes:

P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Details:
- 2000 Eurovan Camper with 108K miles
- before today, the van had not been driven substantially since November
- it is humid and raining lightly today, and in the past I've had similar misfires after I had washed the engine compartment.
- But the engine is dry (there were no puddles on the ground).
- the gasoline in the van is probably 6 months (?) old, at about 1/2 tank
- Coil Pack and spark plug wires were replaced 5000 miles ago at VW dealer (presumably, using OEM parts)

Any advice where to start?

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

?After sheltering in place for much of the COVID epidemic, decided to go get the 2000 Eurovan smog checked today. While driving there, it started running very rough and the Check Engine Light started blinking. I drove home and pulled these codes:

P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Details:
- 2000 Eurovan Camper with 108K miles
- before today, the van had not been driven substantially since November
- it is humid and raining lightly today, and in the past I've had similar misfires after I had washed the engine compartment.
- But the engine is dry (there were no puddles on the ground).
- the gasoline in the van is probably 6 months (?) old, at about 1/2 tank
- Coil Pack and spark plug wires were replaced 5000 miles ago at VW dealer (presumably, using OEM parts)

Any advice where to start?

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:57 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

Thanks, Sam,

- Dirty Injectors / bad fuel: definitely possible, and running a can of injector cleaner through would be a cheap test.

Other details:

- I went over my service records, and although the spark plug wires and coils are new as of 5k miles ago, the spark plugs themselves are 25K miles old. This doesn't sound that bad, except 25k miles ago was nearly 10 years ago (I really don't drive this van much.)

- I let the van idle in the driveway for about 20 minutes - very gassy smelling exhaust. Or do injectors fail in a way that can release too much fuel into the cylinder?

- I kept clearing the codes and the same three came back repeatedly (P0300, P0302, P0306). Does this suggest it's a Spark problem rather than an Injector problem?

- after about 20 minutes, the misfires stopped happening, and the codes did not come back.

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, sam letzring <sletz@...> wrote:

Could be dirty fuel injectors! Might try a can od whatever solvent Autozone/etc. sells and see if that helps. Old gas can be a real problem!

Sam

02 EVC

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

After sheltering in place for much of the COVID epidemic, decided to go get the 2000 Eurovan smog checked today. While driving there, it started running very rough and the Check Engine Light started blinking. I drove home and pulled these codes:

P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Details:
- 2000 Eurovan Camper with 108K miles
- before today, the van had not been driven substantially since November
- it is humid and raining lightly today, and in the past I've had similar misfires after I had washed the engine compartment.
- But the engine is dry (there were no puddles on the ground).
- the gasoline in the van is probably 6 months (?) old, at about 1/2 tank
- Coil Pack and spark plug wires were replaced 5000 miles ago at VW dealer (presumably, using OEM parts)

Any advice where to start?

On Dec 14, 2013, at 9:10 PM, illinirocketscientist <websailn2@...> wrote:
This is a long shot, but you'll find other occurrences documented in the archives: The serpentine belt is treated with antistatic material. As it wears it can generate enough static electricity to interfere with some of the vehicle's sensors. Think of a Van De Graaff generator making your hair stand up at the science museum. My search of the archives indicated this is more common with an aftermarket belt than a VW one.

I spent over a year chasing CEL issues, mostly random misfire indications. Then I stumbled on the belt/static issue mentioned in the archives. Changed the belt - no problems for 4 years.

The belt was visibly bad, though - lots of loose threads. Your fault codes seem like there's a bad connector or ground somewhere. Or perhaps they induced the faults while working on the harness. Maybe clear them and drive for awhile and see if they come back. Does the van drive ok, without hesitation?

regards
Duane
2000 EVC

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, post@... wrote:

I bought my '99 EVC last year, and it has always had the CEL on (occasionally it will flicker, when the weather is very wet and I accelerate on a hill), and I always get several misfire codes (nothing else). Even going back 2 years in the service records it was diagnosed already. I have brought it to 2 different independent, old school VW mechanics, the recommended ones here in town, specialized in Eurovans. Plugs and wires were replaced, coil pack was checked out for malfunction, and Sea Foam injector cleaner was added to to fuel tank. I even purchased 6 new fuel injectors online to have them replaced, but the 2nd mechanic did not see the need for replacing the old ones, it's a big job and he didn't feel there were any symptoms of them being bad. None of these 2 mechanics could find anything wrong with the fuel injection and ignition. They both told me not to worry.

So I'm out of options, I guess I could spend $2000 replacing injectors and coil, but I'm not sure that will solve the issue, and it probably won't make my van drive any better. So I settled on the CEL being always on.

So I'd recommend adding Seal Foam to the tank to clean the injectors, and your mechanic might have a way to check out the coil pack for malfunction. Otherwise, if the van drives fine without hiccups (a

On Dec 14, 2013, at 9:10 PM, illinirocketscientist

This is a long shot, but you'll find other occurrences documented in the

I spent over a year chasing CEL issues, mostly random misfire indications.

The belt was visibly bad, though - lots of loose threads. Your fault

regards
Duane
2000 EVC

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, post@... wrote:

I bought my '99 EVC last year, and it has always had the CEL on

So I'm out of options, I guess I could spend $2000 replacing injectors and

So I'd recommend adding Seal Foam to the tank to clean the injectors, and

On Mar 15, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Michael D<md03@...> wrote:

?Thanks to all for your help & ideas:

Here's my plan of attack:

1. Measure the resistances of the fuel injectors. This looks fairly easy to do, and since replacing the injectors looks really hard, I'd like to avoid that job if possible.
2. Replace the spark plugs. They are 10 years old, and replacing them may give some diagnostic info, if the plugs are black, wet etc.
3. Replace the spark plug wires: Mine are black, but says only the Red ones are OEM, so I wonder if mine are off-brand?
4. Replace the coil pack. Big C says that misfires on #2 and #6 suggest pack problems (since these are on the same bank). Also, since today was humid.
5. Do something about my old tank of gas - if I can get the van running, I may add some injector cleaner and try to drive until the tank is as empty as possible before refilling.

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:57 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

Thanks, Sam,

- Dirty Injectors / bad fuel: definitely possible, and running a can of injector cleaner through would be a cheap test.

Other details:

- I went over my service records, and although the spark plug wires and coils are new as of 5k miles ago, the spark plugs themselves are 25K miles old. This doesn't sound that bad, except 25k miles ago was nearly 10 years ago (I really don't drive this van much.)

- I let the van idle in the driveway for about 20 minutes - very gassy smelling exhaust. Or do injectors fail in a way that can release too much fuel into the cylinder?

- I kept clearing the codes and the same three came back repeatedly (P0300, P0302, P0306). Does this suggest it's a Spark problem rather than an Injector problem?

- after about 20 minutes, the misfires stopped happening, and the codes did not come back.

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:32 AM, sam letzring <sletz@...> wrote:

Could be dirty fuel injectors! Might try a can od whatever solvent Autozone/etc. sells and see if that helps. Old gas can be a real problem!

Sam

02 EVC

On Mar 15, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

After sheltering in place for much of the COVID epidemic, decided to go get the 2000 Eurovan smog checked today. While driving there, it started running very rough and the Check Engine Light started blinking. I drove home and pulled these codes:

P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Details:
- 2000 Eurovan Camper with 108K miles
- before today, the van had not been driven substantially since November
- it is humid and raining lightly today, and in the past I've had similar misfires after I had washed the engine compartment.
- But the engine is dry (there were no puddles on the ground).
- the gasoline in the van is probably 6 months (?) old, at about 1/2 tank
- Coil Pack and spark plug wires were replaced 5000 miles ago at VW dealer (presumably, using OEM parts)

Any advice where to start?

On Mar 15, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Michael Diehr <md03@...> wrote:

Thanks to all for your help & ideas:

Here's my plan of attack:

1. Measure the resistances of the fuel injectors. This looks fairly easy to do, and since replacing the injectors looks really hard, I'd like to avoid that job if possible.
2. Replace the spark plugs. They are 10 years old, and replacing them may give some diagnostic info, if the plugs are black, wet etc.
3. Replace the spark plug wires: Mine are black, but says only the Red ones are OEM, so I wonder if mine are off-brand?
4. Replace the coil pack. Big C says that misfires on #2 and #6 suggest pack problems (since these are on the same bank). Also, since today was humid.
5. Do something about my old tank of gas - if I can get the van running, I may add some injector cleaner and try to drive until the tank is as empty as possible before refilling.

On Mar 16, 2021, at 3:04 PM, Big C via groups.io <k_kodiak1@...> wrote:

?Hello, Michael,

My replies about the issue were speculative -- obd2 code can lead you down funny rabbit holes.?

You're correct about the injector ohm test re clogged or fouled. But that test doesn't account for shorted injectors, leaky injectors, leaky o-rings (which can cause misfire at load which is what you described in your original post) or mechanical issues inside the injectors. So to eliminate injectors entirely you'd need to "flow" them and look for rate/time and then drips after injectors shut off. Then use an oscilloscope to watch for the pintle "hump" in the injector's waveform -- when the injector is energized a magnetic field is created which pulls up the pintle to let the gas discharge.?Absent those tests, the injectors can't officially be ruled out as a catalyst for the misfire codes you received.

That said, I'd examine?all your spark plugs, especially cylinder 2 and 6 plugs! Look at electrode gaps.
Look for carbon tracking on the porcelain which is an indication of arcing in the spark plug boot.
Examine those boots for tears.
Always test new spark plug wires for resistance. Should all be fairly the same. Just keep in mind resistance is measured in ohms per foot. It's possible you have a couple of bad ones.
Look for carbon tracking inside the spark plug connector that connects to the spark plug.?The issue could be just that simple.

You certainly shouldn't have to replace those spark plug wires this soon. Have you checked for mice issues?

If spark plug gaps are nubs you'd have to ask why -- 5,000 miles isn't much to ruin plug electrodes unless something else were going on e.g. a harsh lean (typically) fuel condition. And for that kind of diagnosis you'd need to know and understand your fuel trims.?

Examine the coil pack for any signs of cracks, chips, arcing. If you really want to test the coil, you're going to need a multimeter (or oscope) to diagnose whether the issue is with the coil itself or the inputs to the coil. Simple to do if you have the tools and know where to hook up and what to look for -- safely. Not so easy if you're a diy'er with few tools. YouTube certainly could help you with other tests you can do. Just use caution around the high voltage and fuel.

The vehicle workshop manual would be super helpful for you. You might also consider a monthly subscription to prodemand diy (I think it's called Mitchell1 for consumers). I have no affiliation with software or manuals. They're my suggestions based on my experience.?

Last tip: Use what you can see, touch, smell or hear to validate what's working and what's not in the engine compartment with engine on and off, or even key on, engine off.

On Mar 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Big C via groups.io <k_kodiak1@...> wrote:

?You're right -- that approach works, too. :-)

My approach is not to buy stuff I don't know I need.

That's why I suggest testing/validating first.

And it's rare a single bread crumb leads someone out of the woods.

So the extra stuff provides?a path for further understanding and troubleshooting -- or handing off to a pro. :-)