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Ok tech experts here is the tough $$$ question. I know that some of you on the list have the experience of having a timing belt fail and getting into engine problems. I am looking for information on what happened to you and how things worked out. This question is not knocking the VW products, because the engine was in a GM Korea produced Chevy Aveo (4 cylinder 1.6 L gas engine,) Basic scenario at about 40,000 miles on the odometer.Friday night last he was driving at 60 mph on I-5 north of Seattle Washington when he lost power in 5th gear, tried shifting down to 4 but basically the engine died and he coasted to the side of the highway. I know all this because I was following him in a rental car about 6 car lengths back. The engine would not start, so we had the vehicle towed to Everett Chevrolet. Saturday morning the dealer said it must be a timing belt, I have no mechanic until Monday. It should be an easy job. We continued back to Canada 900 miles further away. Monday morning I was told yes it is a timing belt but we have no idea why it failed, there should be no internal damage. $300. Monday afternoon we were told the timing belt failed because the tensioner was broken. (one is now ordered). Tuesday afternoon we were told the head is damaged. (16 valve engine). The estimate is another $2000.00.... This car had no warranty it expired at 3 years, 36,000 miles.


Here are my concerns what are the chances the rest of the engine is TOAST? Even if we change the head and the pistons have no marks on them what are chance the bits of valves are not going to destroy the engine once it is put back together? I can do an oil change but are their bits of debris that won't come out?

I know some of you have done the damaged timing belt, damaged valves and head scenarios in VWs, what did you decide to do? What would you do?

I can buy a complete factory reman for $4000 or get engines out of wreckers for 800 to 1400, with installation at about $500. The issues with this car, is it my son's transportation, we live near Edmonton, Canada, and he goes to college south of Seattle. We aren't really interested in warranty, we are interested in reliability. Do we get the car fixed in Washington, or bring it back to Canada and get the work done here?

Even U-haul is a hassle, they won't rent a tow dolly, they say I need an auto trailer (ground clearance issues). They won't rent me a pick up truck to tow a car with and they won't rent me a cube van because I am a foreigner (so when did being a white Canadian male be such a big deal?) I mean the last time we invaded the US was about 200 years ago... and that was under a different king... :>)

Do we just swap the whole engine now and sleep better? My wife is the worrier. I am the bill payer.

Seattle area listers can you recommend the name of good local independent shop, or wrecking yards that might have GM products, and honest reliable towing companies...

Please reply direct to tya2@...

Reg near Edmonton

Well, interference engines can break or bend valves. If you can crank the
engine over, you probably bent valves, and it's repairable. If the valves
broke off, then the engine is junk. Only way to tell for sure is to take it
apart (or use a scope to look inside each cylinder). Best bet is to just
put a junkyard engine in it, but put a new timing belt an tensioner in it
too! 36k is unacceptable for this kind of failure. Bad parts went into
this car, i.e., the tensioner.



Good luck!



Stuart



_____

From: ev_update@... [mailto:ev_update@...] On Behalf
Of TYA2
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:15 PM
To: ev_update@...
Cc: rialta-tech@...
Subject: [ev_update] Interference fit engine & head damage ???





Ok tech experts here is the tough $$$ question. I know that some of you
on the list have the experience of having a timing belt fail and getting
into engine problems. I am looking for information on what happened to
you and how things worked out. This question is not knocking the VW
products, because the engine was in a GM Korea produced Chevy Aveo (4
cylinder 1.6 L gas engine,) Basic scenario at about 40,000 miles on the
odometer.Friday night last he was driving at 60 mph on I-5 north of Seattle
Washington when he lost power in 5th gear, tried shifting down to 4 but
basically the engine died and he coasted to the side of the highway. I
know all this because I was following him in a rental car about 6 car
lengths back. The engine would not start, so we had the vehicle towed to
Everett Chevrolet. Saturday morning the dealer said it must be a timing
belt, I have no mechanic until Monday. It should be an easy job. We
continued back to Canada 900 miles further away. Monday morning I was
told yes it is a timing belt but we have no idea why it failed, there
should be no internal damage. $300. Monday afternoon we were told the
timing belt failed because the tensioner was broken. (one is now
ordered). Tuesday afternoon we were told the head is damaged. (16 valve
engine). The estimate is another $2000.00.... This car had no warranty
it expired at 3 years, 36,000 miles.

Here are my concerns what are the chances the rest of the engine is
TOAST? Even if we change the head and the pistons have no marks on them
what are chance the bits of valves are not going to destroy the engine once
it is put back together? I can do an oil change but are their bits of
debris that won't come out?

I know some of you have done the damaged timing belt, damaged valves and
head scenarios in VWs, what did you decide to do? What would you do?

I can buy a complete factory reman for $4000 or get engines out of wreckers
for 800 to 1400, with installation at about $500. The issues with this
car, is it my son's transportation, we live near Edmonton, Canada, and he
goes to college south of Seattle. We aren't really interested in
warranty, we are interested in reliability. Do we get the car fixed in
Washington, or bring it back to Canada and get the work done here?

Even U-haul is a hassle, they won't rent a tow dolly, they say I need an
auto trailer (ground clearance issues). They won't rent me a pick up
truck to tow a car with and they won't rent me a cube van because I am a
foreigner (so when did being a white Canadian male be such a big
deal?) I mean the last time we invaded the US was about 200 years ago...
and that was under a different king... :>)

Do we just swap the whole engine now and sleep better? My wife is the
worrier. I am the bill payer.

Seattle area listers can you recommend the name of good local independent
shop, or wrecking yards that might have GM products, and honest reliable
towing companies...

Please reply direct to tya2@... <mailto:tya2%404-fly.net>

Reg near Edmonton

I did a head job on a Honda Accord that suffered from a broken timing
belt. It ran fine for years after. As long as the valves/pistons only
bent or have dings it should be fine to rebuild. If little bits of
valves were floating around in the cylinders you would have scoring on
the cylinder walls and the engine is probably junk, unless you go
through an entire rebuild with boring out cylinders and oversize
pistons (not sure if that is an option for that engine). Getting a
used engine is not a bad idea if you can get one for a similar price.

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

First, the motor in the Aveo is a VW??? From what you wrote, that's what it
sounds like.



Second, I agree with the two answers you have received on this already. If
it did break a timing belt on the freeway and it's an interference motor
then more than likely you have at least a bent valve or eight. If a valve
broke off, there is a chance that the motor is bad, BUT, there is a chance
that is isn't. Maybe one bad piston? But, there is one scenario that was
left out, there is a CHANCE that the valves didn't hit at all! I've seen
this happen a few times on the old VW 16v motors, install a timing belt and
away you go again. You have to take special care in turning the motor over
to align the timing marks to get the new timing belt on, though.



Lastly, I think that a used motor would probably be your best bet, again
with a new timing belt and tensioner while the motor is out (it's easy then)
and if the water pump is timing belt ran then replace that too. BUT, I
would definitely try a timing belt and tensioner on the old motor to see if
damage was actually done. If so, you can reuse the timing belt and
tensioner on the new/used motor anyway. Also, if it does have some damage
then I would definitely tear it apart to see the extent and what it would
cost to do the work.



I, myself, have been able to pull a head and replace valves for a few
hundred dollars. It REALLY isn't that expensive, what ends up being
expensive is SHOP labor, SHOP parts, and all the other expenses that go
along with it. It's a LOT cheaper to do the work yourself if you know what
you are doing. Since I have been a mechanic professionally, I got a small
shop to diddle in and do my own stuff along with a few money making projects
once in a while. It's nice not to have to pay $80 to $100/hr at retail
shops to do work that basically anyone with a little know how can do on
their own with a manual, a few tools and a little know how.



Anyway, good luck on it!



Dave