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Another propane tank mystery
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I have heard in the past that the EVCs come with butane in the tank. Maybe
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after you run your appliances a while and deplete your tank, everything will be fine. Congratulations on your new EVC. I hope it brings you as much joy as it has for my son and I. We have suffered some problems since purchasing our new EVC in June but with the good, knowledgeable people of this list you are in good hands. What state do you live in? -----Original Message-----
From: Charles Bragg [mailto:cgbragg@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:06 AM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Another propane tank mystery On my new EVC there seemed to be no propane. The internal monitor lights showed 2/3, but none of the appliances would work. The stovetop burners did not seem to be exhaling *anything*. So, mumbling about inconsiderate dealers, I took it to the gas man this morning. He told me it was half full, and proved it by maxing out the refill at 1.4 gallons. And now everything works! So what was it half full of, water? ;-) Anybody know what's going on? -- Chuck 99 EVC 238 miles. ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications |
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Charles Bragg
On my new EVC there seemed to be no propane. The internal monitor lights showed 2/3, but none of the appliances would work. The stovetop burners did not seem to be exhaling *anything*.
So, mumbling about inconsiderate dealers, I took it to the gas man this morning. He told me it was half full, and proved it by maxing out the refill at 1.4 gallons. And now everything works! So what was it half full of, water? ;-) Anybody know what's going on? -- Chuck 99 EVC 238 miles. ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== |
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John Waterman
Charles,
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The Winnebago service manual (available from Winnebago for about $25 and well worth it) suggests purging the tank either 3 or 4 times to insure that it contains only propane before using it. Doing this now might save you a great deal of grief later. John Charles Bragg wrote:
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mailto:jwwaterman@... John Waterman Parker,CO |
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Vance, Beaumont W.
IT will take a long time to use up the butane in your tank by running the
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appliances. Remember, butane will not burn below 32 degree F. So if you go camping and it is below freezing, you will not have heat. The best way to purge the tank is to hook it up to a huge propane space heater and run it for about 3 hours. Then fill it up with Propane. -----Original Message-----
From: David Radcliff [mailto:daradcliff@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:30 PM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery I have heard in the past that the EVCs come with butane in the tank. Maybe after you run your appliances a while and deplete your tank, everything will be fine. Congratulations on your new EVC. I hope it brings you as much joy as it has for my son and I. We have suffered some problems since purchasing our new EVC in June but with the good, knowledgeable people of this list you are in good hands. What state do you live in? -----Original Message----- From: Charles Bragg [mailto:cgbragg@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:06 AM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Another propane tank mystery On my new EVC there seemed to be no propane. The internal monitor lights showed 2/3, but none of the appliances would work. The stovetop burners did not seem to be exhaling *anything*. So, mumbling about inconsiderate dealers, I took it to the gas man this morning. He told me it was half full, and proved it by maxing out the refill at 1.4 gallons. And now everything works! So what was it half full of, water? ;-) Anybody know what's going on? -- Chuck 99 EVC 238 miles. ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications |
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Zaborenko, Alex, NNAD
Why couldn't you empty the tank with the bleeder valve?
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Alex -----Original Message-----
From: Vance, Beaumont W. [mailto:Beaumont.Vance@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 3:39 PM To: 'ev_update@...' Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery IT will take a long time to use up the butane in your tank by running the appliances. Remember, butane will not burn below 32 degree F. So if you go camping and it is below freezing, you will not have heat. The best way to purge the tank is to hook it up to a huge propane space heater and run it for about 3 hours. Then fill it up with Propane. -----Original Message----- From: David Radcliff [mailto:daradcliff@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:30 PM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery I have heard in the past that the EVCs come with butane in the tank. Maybe after you run your appliances a while and deplete your tank, everything will be fine. Congratulations on your new EVC. I hope it brings you as much joy as it has for my son and I. We have suffered some problems since purchasing our new EVC in June but with the good, knowledgeable people of this list you are in good hands. What state do you live in? -----Original Message----- From: Charles Bragg [mailto:cgbragg@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:06 AM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Another propane tank mystery On my new EVC there seemed to be no propane. The internal monitor lights showed 2/3, but none of the appliances would work. The stovetop burners did not seem to be exhaling *anything*. So, mumbling about inconsiderate dealers, I took it to the gas man this morning. He told me it was half full, and proved it by maxing out the refill at 1.4 gallons. And now everything works! So what was it half full of, water? ;-) Anybody know what's going on? -- Chuck 99 EVC 238 miles. ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications |
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John Waterman
Alex,
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Because that will only evacuate it to one atmosphere. What is necessary is to completely purge the tank (most propane dealers can do this). Winnebago recommends doing it 3 times and even lists the percent of contaminants left after the first purge, the second purge, etc. John "Zaborenko, Alex, NNAD" wrote:
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mailto:jwwaterman@... John Waterman Parker,CO |
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Charles Bragg
At 11:29 PM 10/27/1999 -0400, David wrote:
I have heard in the past that the EVCs come with butane in the tank. MaybeYes, I know. However, even butane will burn at 70 degrees farenheit, wouldn't you think? I'm just hoping that the topping up and/or a few miles of driving shook something loose and I'll have no more trouble. Congratulations on your new EVC. I hope it brings you asConfusion. ;-) Actually, California. -- Chuck 99 EVC 241 miles ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== |
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Charles Bragg
At 03:26 PM 10/28/1999 -0600, John wrote:
Alex,The (well, *one* of the) question is, where did the butane come from? BTW, I still maintain my tank was filled with nitrogen, since it didn't burn at 70 degrees ambient. ;-) Does Winnebago fill the tank with butane? Surely it's not VW in Germany! And if Winnebago does it, why? It freezes at the factory, right? Confused - Chuck 99 EVC 241 miles ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== |
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Tim Robertson
Many well-fabricated pressure vessels, such as propane tanks, are filled
with nitrogen prior to shipment from the place of fabrication (one of our companies makes them and does this). Sounds like one possibility is that Winnebago simply didn't purge the nitrogen and refill them with propane. With the numerous problems some of us have experienced with the Winni mods, it seems entirely possible that this could have happened. Tim '97 ECV '76 PA28-181 Charles Bragg wrote: Charles Bragg wrote: |
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Vance, Beaumont W.
Question 1: Why not just open the bleeder valve?
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a: the valve freezes repeatedly due to decompression. Also, you have to put a lot of flammable gas into the air. Q: why and who would put butane in the tank? A: my understanding is that Butane is a more efficient and hotter burning gas. It appears that VW/Winnie believes that all camping is done in the summer (hence the single choice of white.) I have been told that in warmer climates propane tanks are filled with a propane/butane mixture. I would guess that Winnebago puts the butane in (if it is indeed butane.) -----Original Message-----
From: Charles Bragg [mailto:cgbragg@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 7:28 PM To: ev_update@... Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery At 03:26 PM 10/28/1999 -0600, John wrote: Alex,The (well, *one* of the) question is, where did the butane come from? BTW, I still maintain my tank was filled with nitrogen, since it didn't burn at 70 degrees ambient. ;-) Does Winnebago fill the tank with butane? Surely it's not VW in Germany! And if Winnebago does it, why? It freezes at the factory, right? Confused - Chuck 99 EVC 241 miles ======== Chuck Bragg, Santa Monica Bay Audubon cgbragg@... fax: 209-671-6396 ======== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Java or juggling?. Everybody learns something at Learn2.com. Where you'll find thousands of free 2torials, affordable online courses, and useful tips for everyday life. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications |
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Rick Gordon
At 11:04 AM -0600 10/29/99, Vance, Beaumont W. wrote:
I've heard that butane is added to propane during summer months, but i've not sure if its done everywhere. the problem with butane is that it doesn't burn below 32F - those with butane stoves may have noticed this on really cold mornings (back in those backpacking days!) When I bought the '95, it was up to the VW dealer to purge the tank of (possible) water and bring all the systems up to snuff. Even then, some dealers were better at it than others it seems. I doubt that VW would be shipping vans from Iowa loaded with propane, but then you never know. -rick |
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Vance, Beaumont W.
I mean that if the temp is below freezing, the butane will not turn into a
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gas. So nothing will light, unless of course there is some propane. We discovered this the hard way. We camped at 10,500 feet. IT was about 40 when we went to bed. We woke up at about 12:00 and the temp in the van was about 10 degrees. We had to stick the dog under the covers to stay warm. -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Noeske [mailto:CHRISN@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 3:25 PM To: 'ev_update@...' Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery <<Remember, butane will not burn below 32 degree F. So if you go camping and <<it is below freezing, you will not have heat. You mean will not burn in the heater, don't you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Java or juggling?. Everybody learns something at Learn2.com. Where you'll find thousands of free 2torials, affordable online courses, and useful tips for everyday life. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications |
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Chris Noeske
I found that difficult to believe, but your right. I found the
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following information on several different web sites. Also interesting is the definition of LPG , as defined by OSHA. So how do you make sure that your getting 100% propane when buying LPG. Most gas station attendants, wouldn't know the difference. 31 degrees F. Isobutane (think of this as the premium gasoline of the butane line) has a boiling point of 11 degrees F. Propane by itself has a boiling point of -43 degrees F. Simply put, at below 31 degrees F, normal butane has difficulty vaporizing" OSHA Regulations (Standards - 29 CFR) ..1926.155(j) (j) "Liquefied petroleum gases," "LPG" and "LP Gas" mean and include any material which is composed predominantly of any of the following hydrocarbons, or mixtures of them, such as propane, propylene, butane (normal butane or iso-butane), and butylenes. -----Original Message-----
From: Vance, Beaumont W. [mailto:Beaumont.Vance@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 10:43 AM To: 'ev_update@...' Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery I mean that if the temp is below freezing, the butane will not turn into a gas. So nothing will light, unless of course there is some propane. " Butane (N-Butane or normal butane) has a boiling point, of We discovered this the hard way. We camped at 10,500 feet. IT was about 40 when we went to bed. We woke up at about 12:00 and the temp in the van was about 10 degrees. We had to stick the dog under the covers to stay warm. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Noeske [mailto:CHRISN@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 3:25 PM To: 'ev_update@...' Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery <<Remember, butane will not burn below 32 degree F. So if you go camping and <<it is below freezing, you will not have heat. You mean will not burn in the heater, don't you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Java or juggling?. Everybody learns something at Learn2.com. Where you'll find thousands of free 2torials, affordable online courses, and useful tips for everyday life. eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! -- Create a poll/survey for your eGroup! -- |
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Vance, Beaumont W.
I have found that places that sell propane usually know exactly what they
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are selling. This is especially true at small places that sell propane only. I think that people who are in the business of dispensing such a flammable substance are pretty well educated about their product. A lot depends on the area of the country. I don't imagine they care too much in Forida. But here in Colorado, I don't think they sell any Butane. -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Noeske [mailto:CHRISN@...] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:29 PM To: 'ev_update@...' Subject: [ev_update] Re: Another propane tank mystery My computer crashed while I was sending the last message here it is again, in a more complete form. I found that difficult to believe, but your right. I found the following information on several different web sites. Also interesting is the definition of LPG , as defined by OSHA. So how do you make sure that your getting 100% propane when buying LPG. Most gas station attendants, wouldn't know the difference. "each of these liquid fuels has a different boiling point or point at which gas is produced. Butane (N-Butane or normal butane) has a boiling point, of 31 degrees F. Isobutane (think of this as the premium gasoline of the butane line) has a boiling point of 11 degrees F. Propane by itself has a boiling point of -43 degrees F. Simply put, at below 31 degrees F, normal butane has difficulty vaporizing" "Simply put, at below 31 degrees F, normal butane has difficulty vaporizing" OSHA Regulations (Standards - 29 CFR) ..1926.155(j) (j) "Liquefied petroleum gases," "LPG" and "LP Gas" mean and include any material which is composed predominantly of any of the following hydrocarbons, or mixtures of them, such as propane, propylene, butane (normal butane or iso-butane), and butylenes. <<I mean that if the temp is below freezing, the butane will not turn into a <<gas. So nothing will light, unless of course there is some propane. <<We discovered this the hard way. We camped at 10,500 feet. IT was about 40 <<when we went to bed. We woke up at about 12:00 and the temp in the van was <<about 10 degrees. We had to stick the dog under the covers to stay warm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Talk to your group with your own voice! -- |
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Chris Noeske
My computer crashed while I was sending the last message here it is again,
in a more complete form. I found that difficult to believe, but your right. I found the following information on several different web sites. Also interesting is the definition of LPG , as defined by OSHA. So how do you make sure that your getting 100% propane when buying LPG. Most gas station attendants, wouldn't know the difference. "each of these liquid fuels has a different boiling point or point at which gas is produced. Butane (N-Butane or normal butane) has a boiling point, of 31 degrees F. Isobutane (think of this as the premium gasoline of the butane line) has a boiling point of 11 degrees F. Propane by itself has a boiling point of -43 degrees F. Simply put, at below 31 degrees F, normal butane has difficulty vaporizing" "Simply put, at below 31 degrees F, normal butane has difficulty vaporizing" OSHA Regulations (Standards - 29 CFR) ..1926.155(j) (j) "Liquefied petroleum gases," "LPG" and "LP Gas" mean and include any material which is composed predominantly of any of the following hydrocarbons, or mixtures of them, such as propane, propylene, butane (normal butane or iso-butane), and butylenes. <<I mean that if the temp is below freezing, the butane will not turn into a <<gas. So nothing will light, unless of course there is some propane. <<We discovered this the hard way. We camped at 10,500 feet. IT was about 40 <<when we went to bed. We woke up at about 12:00 and the temp in the van was <<about 10 degrees. We had to stick the dog under the covers to stay warm. |
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