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2003 EV MV Transmission

efickel
 

Hi group. I've been here in the past, but I've been away from the
group for quite some time. I could use a little advice.

My EV seems to have a bad transmission. The dealer says it needs a new
one, and this he has decided upon only seeing and smelling the
transmission fluid. The van does not shift properly through the lower
gears, but runs fine at highway speed. Downshifting to go uphill is
sometimes troublesome.

One of the rebuilders I found through reading group posts, indicated a
possible cause of my woes. I had a battery replaced before my vacation
(from which I just returned). It was not done at a dealer. The
rebuilder suggested that perhaps the "adaptation program" wasn't run
after the computer lost its memory. Is that possible? Could that
destroy a transmission? Or could it mean that I just need to have the
"adaptation program" performed and the ATF flushed?

Dealer is quoting $5700 for new transmission installed, which he
insists is new and not a factory rebuild. GoWesty seems to have the
best warranty for approximately the same cost. There is also a site
selling rebuilt EV transmissions for $1850, which seems enticingly low.

Any ideas? I am currently waiting for a response from Volkswagen
regarding assistance with the problem.

-Erich
B Feddish
 

There is also a site
selling rebuilt EV transmissions for $1850, which seems enticingly low. <<



I believe that price is for if you are a member. I think the real price is
around $2,200 which is still a bargain. I'd definitely go with one of the 2
sites that have EV trannys before I'd pay VW $5,700 to install one.



Bryan
Dan Cross
 

This is typical. I wonder how many EV transmissions have been
unnecessary replaced because loyal VW customers trusted the advice of
morons like these. My advice is this: First don't talk to that
dealer again unless you bring a lawyer. Next, do the adaption. The
procedure is in the files.

If your ATF and filter hasn't been changed at 40K or less get that
done. If you still have issues after this then take it to and ATRA
shop. You can find one near you at:

Ideally you should pick one that has experience with EVs but anyone
that works on VW/Audi transmissions will be good. Have them do a
diagnostic/pressure check. This will give you a lot more
authoritative indication of what may be wrong with your tranny if
anything. In any case getting this attended to promptly is best
since low pressure can lead to accelerated clutch wear. One more
thing! Relax; it's probably not as bad as you fear.

IVAN
Therefore:
I am,
Dan


--- In ev_update@..., "efickel" <EFickel@...> wrote:

Hi group. I've been here in the past, but I've been away from the
group for quite some time. I could use a little advice.

My EV seems to have a bad transmission. The dealer says it needs a
new
one, and this he has decided upon only seeing and smelling the
transmission fluid. The van does not shift properly through the
lower
gears, but runs fine at highway speed. Downshifting to go uphill is
sometimes troublesome.

One of the rebuilders I found through reading group posts,
indicated a
possible cause of my woes. I had a battery replaced before my
vacation
(from which I just returned). It was not done at a dealer. The
rebuilder suggested that perhaps the "adaptation program" wasn't run
after the computer lost its memory. Is that possible? Could that
destroy a transmission? Or could it mean that I just need to have
the
"adaptation program" performed and the ATF flushed?

Dealer is quoting $5700 for new transmission installed, which he
insists is new and not a factory rebuild. GoWesty seems to have the
best warranty for approximately the same cost. There is also a site
selling rebuilt EV transmissions for $1850, which seems enticingly
low.

Any ideas? I am currently waiting for a response from Volkswagen
regarding assistance with the problem.

-Erich
efickel
 

--- In ev_update@..., "Dan Cross" <dan.cross@...> wrote:

My advice is this: First don't talk to that
dealer again unless you bring a lawyer. Next, do the adaption. The
procedure is in the files.
If your ATF and filter hasn't been changed at 40K or less get that
done. If you still have issues after this then take it to and ATRA
shop. You can find one near you at:
Thank you for the links. I will start checking with the ATRA shops
near my location.

I guess I have to decide whether to leave the vehicle where it is
(about 2 hours away) or have it towed back here where I can more
easily get additional opinions.

-Erich
gti_matt
 

My EV seems to have a bad transmission. The dealer says it needs a new
one, and this he has decided upon only seeing and smelling the
transmission fluid. The van does not shift properly through the lower
gears, but runs fine at highway speed. Downshifting to go uphill is
sometimes troublesome.

If you're getting all the gears OK and it's just a matter of the shift points, I don't think you have a trans problem at all.

The rebuilder suggested that perhaps the "adaptation program" wasn't run
after the computer lost its memory. Is that possible?

Maybe. I find that it also can just get "confused" trying to satisfy the driver based on past driving-style learning that conflicts with current/immediate-future driving conditions.

Could that destroy a transmission?
Doubtful.

Or could it mean that I just need to have the "adaptation program" performed
It's very easy to do yourself. Do it.

Thanks most recently to dave_king_ev posting these up in another forum, these are the steps:
1. Turn on the ignition (don't start the engine).
2. Turn the ignition off.
3. Turn ignition on again -- without starting the engine -- and depress the accelerator all and hold the pedal there for at least ten seconds.
4. Release the accelerator pedal.
5. Start the engine in the regular manner.
6. Drive, making sure that the transmission shifts through all gears.

and the ATF flushed?
and filter changed. Although if the above reset fixes it *and* your fluid is nowhere due for it's "every 40K change", it might be a waste of effort at this point.
efickel
 

and filter changed. Although if the above reset fixes it *and* your
fluid is nowhere due for it's "every 40K change", it might be a waste
of effort at this point.
The dealer said the fluid was "burnt". So, I assume that if the
transmission is not bad, the fluid should be flushed and filter
changed. Although the dealer says the system is not supposed to have
ATF changed. Having rejoined this august body, I know that it is not true.

Regarding the shifting -- I can't tell if it's shift points or
slipping between shifts. The engine seems to race a little between gears.

Thank you for your help.

-Erich
gti_matt
 

Regarding the shifting -- I can't tell if it's shift points or
slipping between shifts. The engine seems to race a little between gears.

Sounds like slipping then. Doing the reset won't hurt but slipping would to me be consistent with your notation of it being slower when cold (more slipping, clutches not coming together quickly enough, etc.). In that case I'd change the fluid and filter and also adjust the pressure screw and see what happens from there.
efickel
 

Sounds like slipping then. Doing the reset won't hurt but slipping
would to me be consistent with your notation of it being slower when
cold (more slipping, clutches not coming together quickly enough,
etc.). In that case I'd change the fluid and filter and also adjust
the pressure screw and see what happens from there.


I know this will be a stupid question. Should the pressure be adjusted
upwards or downwards? By how much -- quarter-turn, half-turn, or
other. Obviously, I won't do this work -- but I need to be able to
instruct someone on what to do. Where is the pressure screw?

-Erich
Dan Cross
 

The pressure screw is in the manifold which is inside the pan, which
makes incremental tweaks a PITA. It has a ratchet feature to it that
only allows you to turn it in, raising pressure. Personally I wouldn't
touch it without first getting a pressure test. You may cause more
harm than good and there is no going back, at least not without
considerable expense. Improper fluid levels can mimic some of your
symptoms so I wouldn't go messing with settings without first taking
care of the standard stuff first. A pressure test is pretty straight
forward. I wouldn't expect to pay more than about $100 for one.
IVAN
Therefore:
I am,
Dan

--- In ev_update@..., "efickel" <EFickel@...> wrote:

Sounds like slipping then. Doing the reset won't hurt but slipping
would to me be consistent with your notation of it being slower when
cold (more slipping, clutches not coming together quickly enough,
etc.). In that case I'd change the fluid and filter and also adjust
the pressure screw and see what happens from there.


I know this will be a stupid question. Should the pressure be adjusted
upwards or downwards? By how much -- quarter-turn, half-turn, or
other. Obviously, I won't do this work -- but I need to be able to
instruct someone on what to do. Where is the pressure screw?

-Erich
gti_matt
 

The pressure screw is in the manifold which is inside the pan, which
makes incremental tweaks a PITA.

That is true...if you want to make incremental tweaks you have to drop the pan again.

It has a ratchet feature to it that only allows you to turn it in, raising pressure.
Correct.

Personally I wouldn't touch it without first getting a pressure test. You may cause more harm than good and there is no going back, at least not without considerable expense.
For another point of view, I have yet to see any thread on this subject where someone did this and regretted it. Every post with feedback I've seen seems to have nothing but good things to say.

Here are pics and instructions. This is for a Mk4 Golf/Jetta 01M trans but the Eurovan's 01P is similar.
 

What does the dealer say when you show them your operator's manual that says
"change ATF every 40k miles"?

Bob W.




--- In _ev_update@yahoogrouev_upd_ (mailto:ev_update@...) ,
"efickel" <EFickel@...> wrote:

I can tell you, in my case, three dealers have refused to change the
ATF because according to them, VW does not recommend changing it.

-Erich




****Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. ()
efickel
 

Wow -- this is an incredibly frustrating process.

I've called a dozen transmission shops. No one will flush my
transmission fluid and replace the filter. "We don't work on
Volkswagens," is the standard response.

I have found one person that will actually work on the transmission.
Now I have to get the car from the dealer to this shop, a distance of
115 miles. I suppose I need to have it towed -- could I drive it? He
says that if it needs work, he will rebuild the transmission rather
than purchasing a rebuilt unit. Is that OK? Or should I encourage him
to use a rebuilt transmission from one of the websites on this list?

Volkswagen has offered to help. They'll give me a $1500 cash back
coupon redeemable for six months. Isn't that rich? I have to spend
$6000 for repairs, and they expect I'll want to replace it in six months?

I'll keep plugging away. Thanks for your help throughout the process.
BTW -- is there an agreed upon source for the the transmission fluid
that will be less expensive than the dealer network?

-Erich
gti_matt
 

I've called a dozen transmission shops. No one will flush my
transmission fluid and replace the filter. "We don't work on
Volkswagens, " is the standard response.

How strange. They'd turn away a gazillion Golfs and Jettas too? The EV 4-speed auto is nearly the same transmission as a 4-speed auto golf or Jetta.

I have found one person that will actually work on the transmission.
Now I have to get the car from the dealer to this shop, a distance of
115 miles. I suppose I need to have it towed -- could I drive it?

Is it driveable? If so, I'd just drive it.

He says that if it needs work, he will rebuild the transmission rather
than purchasing a rebuilt unit. Is that OK? Or should I encourage him
to use a rebuilt transmission from one of the websites on this list?

Probably depends on what he actually does in the rebuild and what his warranty is vs. the others.

BTW -- is there an agreed upon source for the the transmission fluid
that will be less expensive than the dealer network?

is a great alternative to anything dealer.
Dan Cross
 

The reasons nobody will flush a VW automatic are threefold:
1) Most of the 098-01X series of transmissions are stated by VW as
being "Sealed for life". This is not true for the later EVs but VW
has a lot of trouble keeping this fact strait and the dealers are
even more clueless. The independents are no better. Anyone who
knows jack about ATF knows you should change it according to usage
conditions and the entire 098 series is harsh on fluid and the 01P in
the EV is downright brutal on ATF. Bottom line change it every 40K
of less.
1) Because you need custom fittings to connect to the tranny cooler
outlet/inlet and unless you make your own there is currently only one
place to buy readymade fittings.

2) In order to install the connections to do the flush on a VW AT you
first need to get the OEM cooler off the tranny and out of the way.
Depending on the vehicle and certainly true for the 6 cylinder EV it
is a PITA.
Most EVrs after discovering the importance of proper AT care opt to
drain the fluid, drop and clean the pan, change the filter and refill
the fluid as described in the files. If it has been a long time and
or the fluid is toast then they will button it up turn it over and
repeat the drain and fill a couple times. This will get most of the
old stuff out. Proper fill level is critical and temperature
dependent.
The fluid you want is Pentosin ATF1 Equivalent to Audi Vw G 052 162
A2 you can get it at Europarts and elsewhere.
IVAN
Therefore:
I am,
Dan


--- In ev_update@..., "efickel" <EFickel@...> wrote:

Wow -- this is an incredibly frustrating process.

I've called a dozen transmission shops. No one will flush my
transmission fluid and replace the filter. "We don't work on
Volkswagens," is the standard response.

I have found one person that will actually work on the transmission.
Now I have to get the car from the dealer to this shop, a distance
of
115 miles. I suppose I need to have it towed -- could I drive it? He
says that if it needs work, he will rebuild the transmission rather
than purchasing a rebuilt unit. Is that OK? Or should I encourage
him
to use a rebuilt transmission from one of the websites on this list?

Volkswagen has offered to help. They'll give me a $1500 cash back
coupon redeemable for six months. Isn't that rich? I have to spend
$6000 for repairs, and they expect I'll want to replace it in six
months?

I'll keep plugging away. Thanks for your help throughout the
process.
BTW -- is there an agreed upon source for the the transmission fluid
that will be less expensive than the dealer network?

-Erich
dave_king_ev
 

Can you cite a source for your "sealed for life" statement, or is that
just another internet rumor?

(I hope that misinformation is not based on the glovebox owner's
manual, which doesn't cover everything. For example, my owner's
manual shows only a handful of items at the 15,000 mile service
interval, while the factory service manual shows almost two dozen
items. Of course dealers know this, and know to reference the
complete schedule. They don't check the glovebox -- LOL. But, even
if they did check the glovebox manual, it doesn't say "sealed for
life" either.)

The "Official Factory Service Manual" Bentley states "replace ATF" on
the 40K miles schedule (page A 16) and then refers the technician to
page A 63 ("ATF, replacing") which spells out the fluid change
procedure for both the 098 trans (used on the inline-5) and the 01P
trans (used on the VR6).

--- In ev_update@..., "Dan Cross" <dan.cross@...> wrote:

The reasons nobody will flush a VW automatic are threefold:
1) Most of the 098-01X series of transmissions are stated by VW as
being "Sealed for life". This is not true for the later EVs but VW
has a lot of trouble keeping this fact strait and the dealers are
even more clueless. The independents are no better. Anyone who
knows jack about ATF knows you should change it according to usage
conditions and the entire 098 series is harsh on fluid and the 01P in
the EV is downright brutal on ATF. Bottom line change it every 40K
of less.
1) Because you need custom fittings to connect to the tranny cooler
outlet/inlet and unless you make your own there is currently only one
place to buy readymade fittings.

2) In order to install the connections to do the flush on a VW AT you
first need to get the OEM cooler off the tranny and out of the way.
Depending on the vehicle and certainly true for the 6 cylinder EV it
is a PITA.
Most EVrs after discovering the importance of proper AT care opt to
drain the fluid, drop and clean the pan, change the filter and refill
the fluid as described in the files. If it has been a long time and
or the fluid is toast then they will button it up turn it over and
repeat the drain and fill a couple times. This will get most of the
old stuff out. Proper fill level is critical and temperature
dependent.
The fluid you want is Pentosin ATF1 Equivalent to Audi Vw G 052 162
A2 you can get it at Europarts and elsewhere.
IVAN
Therefore:
I am,
Dan


--- In ev_update@..., "efickel" <EFickel@> wrote:

Wow -- this is an incredibly frustrating process.

I've called a dozen transmission shops. No one will flush my
transmission fluid and replace the filter. "We don't work on
Volkswagens," is the standard response.

I have found one person that will actually work on the transmission.
Now I have to get the car from the dealer to this shop, a distance
of
115 miles. I suppose I need to have it towed -- could I drive it? He
says that if it needs work, he will rebuild the transmission rather
than purchasing a rebuilt unit. Is that OK? Or should I encourage
him
to use a rebuilt transmission from one of the websites on this list?

Volkswagen has offered to help. They'll give me a $1500 cash back
coupon redeemable for six months. Isn't that rich? I have to spend
$6000 for repairs, and they expect I'll want to replace it in six
months?

I'll keep plugging away. Thanks for your help throughout the
process.
BTW -- is there an agreed upon source for the the transmission fluid
that will be less expensive than the dealer network?

-Erich
efickel
 

Can you cite a source for your "sealed for life" statement, or is that
just another internet rumor?
I can tell you, in my case, three dealers have refused to change the
ATF because according to them, VW does not recommend changing it.

-Erich
dave_king_ev
 

Get a Bentley and show them the official maintenance schedule. You
definitely should have a Bentley regardless.

Or, ask them to show you what schedule they use that says "sealed for
life" (or whatever it is they are claiming it says).

Dealers looking to avoid working on Eurovans is the rule, not the
exception. Get used to it, and be prepared to return their lame volleys.

--- In ev_update@..., "efickel" <EFickel@...> wrote:

Can you cite a source for your "sealed for life" statement, or is that
just another internet rumor?
I can tell you, in my case, three dealers have refused to change the
ATF because according to them, VW does not recommend changing it.

-Erich
 

I did post it and it is still in our Files section.

I fail to understand why VW representatives are saying that an ATF change is
unnecessary.

Bob W.



In a message dated 6/26/2008 4:07:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gti_matt@... writes:

Didn't Bob W post a paqe from the owner's manual that states "change
ATF every 40k miles"?

Not sure if Bob did but I did at one time. If I can find it again I'll
repost it. It's right out of the maintenance manual from a '00.





****Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. ()
efickel
 

Get a Bentley and show them the official maintenance schedule. You
definitely should have a Bentley regardless.

Or, ask them to show you what schedule they use that says "sealed for
life" (or whatever it is they are claiming it says).
I am on the phone with VW right now. They insist three things:

(1) Bentley is not the factory manual;
(2) The Transmission is sealed and does not require maintenance; and
(3) 125,000 is a lot of miles for a transmission.

So, where do I go to prove that the fluid should have been changed?
Unfortunately, I was unaware of this reality and trusted the service
managers in the Volkswagen Dealer Network -- obviously a mistake.

It is hard to believe that I've had two CustomerCare representatives
tell me that 125,000 miles is a lot for a vehicle. That's seems an
odd position to take.

In the meantime, the dealer wants $150 for checking the ATF level and
condition. I understand there is not a dipstick -- but really.

I am exasperated. I will have the vehicle towed to a transmission shop
tomorrow. And I doubt I will buy a VW again.

-Erich
 

I beg to differ with the knucklehead at VW with whom
you have been speaking. I am holding a Bentley manual in my hand
right now and it says, right at the top of the back cover.......

Ebahn Volkswagen Eurovan 1992->2003 Repair Manual
"Official Publishing Partner of Volkswagen of America"

Additionally, it has the blue and silver VW crest on the front of
the package, aw well. Using this logo without express permission
from VWoA is called trademark infringement, so he is dead wrong.
It is the official VW repair manual.

Steve Schock
EUROPARTS-San Diego
The Eurovan, Rialta & Sprinter parts source
Website: europarts-sd.com
Phone: 858-451-0020

Secure online ordering at:





efickel wrote:


Get a Bentley and show them the official maintenance schedule. You
definitely should have a Bentley regardless.

Or, ask them to show you what schedule they use that says "sealed for
life" (or whatever it is they are claiming it says).
I am on the phone with VW right now. They insist three things:

(1) Bentley is not the factory manual;
(2) The Transmission is sealed and does not require maintenance; and
(3) 125,000 is a lot of miles for a transmission.

So, where do I go to prove that the fluid should have been changed?
Unfortunately, I was unaware of this reality and trusted the service
managers in the Volkswagen Dealer Network -- obviously a mistake.

It is hard to believe that I've had two CustomerCare representatives
tell me that 125,000 miles is a lot for a vehicle. That's seems an
odd position to take.

In the meantime, the dealer wants $150 for checking the ATF level and
condition. I understand there is not a dipstick -- but really.

I am exasperated. I will have the vehicle towed to a transmission shop
tomorrow. And I doubt I will buy a VW again.

-Erich

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