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A safe way to monitor the AC Mains


wn4isx
 

This is way complicated interface but appears to be intrinsically safe and "idiot proof."
I consider all of us to be idiots at the worst possible moment so please don't take it as an insult.
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Normally the ground lead of a scope probe is connected to the ground of the scope and this ground is connected to the safety ground of the AC power input.? One can remove this safety ground with adapter on the AC plug and then connect the scope to the AC mains.
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Of course the safety ground is also connected to the AC mains neutral and should not be an issue, just dont connect the scope probe ground to the line/hot of the AC.
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Normally the scope probe ground is floating when the safety ground is not connected.?
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Another way to get around this is to use a battery powered scope.? I have made other measurements in circuits across components not at ground of the circuit by using battery powered scopes.
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73, ron, n9ee


wn4isx
 

Re: "Normally the ground lead of a scope probe is connected to the ground of the scope and this ground is connected to the safety ground of the AC power input.? One can remove this safety ground with adapter on the AC plug and then connect the scope to the AC mains."

[red added by me for emphasis.]

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Of course this ignores any EMI filters from hot to the case...EMI filters have capacitors, older EMI filters have rather high value caps.

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Some genius decided to solve an AC Mains induced audio hum in a temporary edit suite by using a NEMA 15-5R to NEMA 1-15P, 3 to 2 AC adapter. [AKA "Ground Cheaters]

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Sure solved the hum problem and placed a female teaching assistant in the hospital overnight for observation after she received a nasty shock. If an EMT hadn't been present the coed probably would have died because no one but the EMT knew CPR.

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An engineer lost his job and was blackballed, he barely avoided criminal charges. He actually faced a grand jury. Things could have gone very badly for him.

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I'm pretty sure we don't have any "Ground Cheaters" in our home. And I have adapters for damn near everything.

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Feel free to use whatever power connection you like but please be aware there are members in this group who lack the experience to understand how dangerous your scheme is.

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I'd like to warn everyone to be aware the case? could be hot with 120V/240V (we have members from all over the world).?

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I use 120V:120V isolation transformers for such tests or a battery powered scope.

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Just be aware the use of "Ground cheaters" 3 to 2 adapters are flat illegal in Canada and some US cities have banned them.

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While every state in the US has adopted the National Electrical Code, states and local administrations are free to add additional safety rules. [And good luck finding out what the exact rules in your city might be.] I've heard Miami has outlawed 'Ground Cheaters" but wasn't able to wade through their online building codes.

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"These adapters are illegal in some jurisdictions, in particular throughout Canada."

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And?

The state of Ohio has issued seven citations to Cleveland State University (CSU) for unsafe electrical conditions in the lab where associate professor??died last August after plugging in a defective fluorescent light through a two-prong adapter plug that left the lamp ungrounded. Experts say that the conditions that led to Mal's death were indeed unsafe, and some believe those problems are not uncommon at other American universities, suggesting other lab workers may also be at risk., CEO of the?, told?The Scientist?that the problem that killed Mal -- using a two-prong adapter in a three-prong outlet -- is common. "When you inspect labs," he said, "it's not unusual to find anywhere from one to seven that way."

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I am NOT a lawyer and I doubt if someone is injured or dies using your idea that you'd be held liable for either criminal charges or a civil tort, but who knows....lawyers are so damn inventive.

Again, I am not a lawyer, so what do I know about legal liability?

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This is a situation where a moderator or group of moderators need to decide "what unsafe posts do we delete." I might be a moderator/owner but after the last flame fest it won't be me.

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On Friday 13 December 2024 05:57:56 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
Some genius decided to solve an AC Mains induced audio hum in a temporary edit suite by using a NEMA 15-5R to NEMA 1-15P, 3 to 2 AC adapter. [AKA "Ground Cheaters]
I've not heard that name for those before.

We have one situation in this house where one of those actually came in handy. There's an outlet in the laundry room with the washer and a refrigerator plugged into it. Both of these came with right-angle plugs, and it wasn't possible to plug the one into the top outlet safely because the right angle orientation of the cord interacted with the plug in the lower outlet. So one of those was used to offset one plug to be a little further out from the wall, and therefore usable. Of course the ground _is_ connected to the screw...

I should probably check and make sure that outlet does have a ground connection, some of them don't in this old house.

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