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Re: Yard Lights revisited

 

Hmm.
I think I need the .7Vfd so that when added to string of lights, my lfp cell won't be discharged past 2.5v. .7Vfd + 1.9Vfd = 2.6v. LFP cell would have to have a greater terminal voltage than 2.6v for current to flow.

Wasteful? Yes. Looking for a single cell bms / cut off for LFP but not successful yet. There are a few, namely variants of the HXYP-1S-4012. That particular board appears to be originally designed for a 3.9v lithium, and now being slung around for both LiPo and LFP. Variants appear to differ on current handling rather than Vcutoff and Vmax.

~SD


A bit of radio history

wn4isx
 

This might be of interest to radio enthusiasts in this group.

?

Cable TV systems have always had problems with RF leaking from and into their "closed systems."

This is a bit one sided industry view that is nonetheless interesting.

?

?

Read all 3 parts and then the Distributed Access Architecture.

?

https://blog.viavisolutions.com/2019/08/28/how-air-force-one-forever-changed-cable/

?

At one point the local cable system used a pilot tone smack dab in the middle of the 2M ham band to set the automatic gain of their 'gazillion' line amplifiers. Their system leaked like a sieve and a group of local hams sat up an impromptu network on that frequency, which shut the entire cable TV system down.

?

The cable system was violating the law with excessive leakage. The same technical flaws that result in leakage that allow radiation of cable TV signals also allows external RF to get in.

?

The cable system issued vague veiled legal threats, which resulted in the FCC paying them a visit with an order "Clean up your act, now."

?

The spent a not so small fortune upgrading their system. it took them less than a month. The engineers I worked with (and me) were offered nearly obscene amounts of money to pitch in. They needed more warm bodies with technical skill than exist in

?

Was it a mean nasty act on the part of hams? The answer depends on which side of the fence you are on.

?

Similarly, in the early 1980s the Grateful Dead played a concert in Lexington, their roadies made the mistake of using 70cm ham radio transceivers, which really upset the local ham radio community. Which lead to another impromptu net on the roadie frequency. They tried to change frequencies but the hams followed. The roadies finally gave up and did the setup the old fashioned way.

?

The take away here is hams are tenacious bulldogs with rabies and an attitude when it comes to guarding/protecting their frequencies.


Re: Yard Lights revisited

wn4isx
 

Try this to eliminate the 0.7V voltage drop...
I have no business relationship with MPJA other than as a satisfied customer.
These devices work as advertised.?
There is a very brief, ?0.1ms? reverse current flow when first powered up backwards.
?
There are other ways to achieve zero forward voltage drop diodes but the MPJA is a nice ready to use device.
?


Yard Lights revisited

 

Lost the battle of yard lights.
Now we have a plethora of dollar store rejects hiding amongst the weeds.
Neighbor was very appreciative of the copper 120vac lights. Beautiful fixtures after stripping, polishing and spraying a lacquer. Looks fantastic, so isn't my handiwork.

Next project needs to be / remain battery powered, naturally selected Headway 38120 LFP cells. 3.2v 8ah (yes, *8aH*) with max rated discharge of 15C (120A). Since I have about 50 of the darn things, gonna use a few of them.

Except can't find a single cell lfp bms / battery disconnect. 2S hard to find as well, unless direct from China Mainland.

Load anticipated around 10w (max, pwm), basically a string of low voltage lighting. Solar panel is 6v-ish, feeds a epoxy-encased charge circuit that in turn charges an INR lithium 3.7v cell 3000mwh capacity, or about 900mAh. I can knock down pv voltage (currently) by shading cells, eventually rewire each half in parallel. PV cell output is (educated guesstimate) 6-ish vdc @ 2w. I do have a dozen or so of the PV panels.

Still leaves me with discharge issue. If cells go under 2.5v, damage occurs. LED string becomes dark around 1.9v and current falls to a few mA. If I put a usual and typical silicon diode in series with cell output to led string, I expect a .7-ish V across diode. Add that to 1.9v string conductance threshold, and have a 2.6V drop, which should halt any appreciable current flow at under 2.5v..

Does this course of reasoning have merit, or shall I remain in the Dark Side?

~SD


Re: Antennas

wn4isx
 

Sadly while English is my birth language I still manage to mangle it with frightening regularity.
I'd blame it on being born in Appalachia but that'd be unfair. The truth is I am dyslexic and can be counted on to reverse letters at random.
Everyone in my junior and senior high home room knew the combination to my locker because I couldn't ever open the !@#$ thing!
And I'm sure you've heard of DAM.....
?
?
Mothers Against Dyslexia.
?
Yes if was VHF to what I guess I should have called SHF.
?
It's? a narrow mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
[My mind must be wide open.]
?


Re: Antennas

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks Andy,

Yes, VHF ?

Of course, the internal antenna in the pager is always active but at lowband, wearing the pager on the belt, the effect is not significant.? I have lots of antenna plots of a pager by itself showing a perfect figure-8 loop antenna pattern.? The same pager on the belt turns into a round omni-directional pattern.

The effect is less at VHF.

At VHF, holding an arm straight up and placing the pager near that arm, greatly increases the sensitivity.

The analog pagers typically triggers at -3db Sinad but requires about 5dB Sinad for the voice message.

Bertho

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andy via groups.io
Sent: 10 February, 2025 9:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] Antennas

?

Bertho,

?

You probably meant "VHF", right?? Not VFH ("very frequency high"?).? But this might be a non-English language issue, if English is not your preferred language.

?

It is only somewhat right that the pager uses the human body as its antenna.? The antenna system includes both what's inside the pager and the effect of its environment including the human.? You can't fully separate one from the other.? That would be like saying that a Yagi antenna consists of just the longest wire, and it happens to have a bunch of other shorter wires nearby and then there's this dipole thingamajig that is in the way, between them.

?

Every antenna has that "problem" of being part of its local environment, unless you can mount it in total isolation.? Dish antennas come close.

?

Andy

?


Re: Antennas

 

Bertho,
?
You probably meant "VHF", right?? Not VFH ("very frequency high"?).? But this might be a non-English language issue, if English is not your preferred language.
?
It is only somewhat right that the pager uses the human body as its antenna.? The antenna system includes both what's inside the pager and the effect of its environment including the human.? You can't fully separate one from the other.? That would be like saying that a Yagi antenna consists of just the longest wire, and it happens to have a bunch of other shorter wires nearby and then there's this dipole thingamajig that is in the way, between them.
?
Every antenna has that "problem" of being part of its local environment, unless you can mount it in total isolation.? Dish antennas come close.
?
Andy
?


Re: Antennas

wn4isx
 

Antennas are fascinating, some of the simplest antennas work much better than one would expect and some extremely complex antennas that should work like magic are disappointing.
?
As to SDRs, they've come a long way in 3 or 4 years in terms of performance.
The more bits you A>D has, the better the performance, although there are tricks such as decimation to improve performance, sort of cheating to use math in the computer CPU to create artificial additional bits.
But this 'steals' performance and can be quite demanding of CPU resources.
?
I've had good luck with the SDRplay series, the RSP1 was their introductory product and OK, they rapidly learned from beginner's mistakes and all their newer models are OK.?
?
The Perseus (original) is an amazing receiver, it was quite pricey but worth it.
I'm an analog man, prefer my heavily modified, antique, Kenwood R2000 to any SDR, but the RSPdx is an OK receiver optimized for LW/MW but still does VHF to high UHF. I use it as a panadter [telling my age there] and it works very well for that function. It is very nice to be able to see what's on either side of where you are tuned, you can ID CW, AM, LSB, USB, digital from the 'squiggles' as my wife calls them.
?


mixer downconversion noise output level dB/Hz

 

Hello, I have a mixer shown in the link below.The way I calculate the noise coming out of the mixer is as following:
-174+NF-conversion loss=-174+0.5-6=-179.5dB/Hz so far I am correct?
also the
Mixer Noise Figure typically measures within +0.5 dB of conversion loss for IF frequencies greater than 5 MHz.
However I was told that we add another 3dB because we convert noise from RF twice.
If its true, Is there some visualisation I could use to see why we add another 3dB?
Thanks.
https://markimicrowave.com/products/microstrip/mixers/m1-0818ne-1/datasheet/


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

wn4isx
 

Use a PA0RDT Mini-whip as the buffer.
?


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

 

THIS? seems to gone way off topic,all i wanted to know was how to homebrew a way too hookup my sdr to my? yaesu ft-707 as a panadaptor.


Antennas

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

On the subject of antennas:

Lo-VFH pager antennas surprisingly are using the person¡¯s body as the antenna.? The body ¡°antenna¡¯ couples into the pager¡¯s internal antenna when it is when worn on the belt.? Worse performance if used in the shirt pocket.

Motorola¡¯s Pageboy 2 series use the U-shaped metal case as the antenna.? I have spent too many weeks optimizing antennas and front-end designs for the Motorola pagers.? From low band-VFH-UHF and finally the first 900MHz pager.

?

I like the info on the active antennas, and I am itching to build one.

I got an SDR that I played with 5-6 years ago, but I have to relearn how to use it, or maybe get an updated unit.

Bertho

?


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I used helical resonators in a commercial VHF marine transceiver that I designed 1981.

A 3-pole input section before the pre-amp followed by a 2-pole section.

That was a long time ago!

Bertho

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of wn4isx via groups.io
Sent: 9 February, 2025 16:43
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electronics101] msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

?

There is no way I can begin to explain intercept point without a lot of unsane math and graphics.

?

The short answer, at some signal strength and amplifier fed two (or more) signals will start to mix with each other, IE intermod.

?

A real world example. On the corner of Broadway and Main Street the 2M [140~160MHz] from a variety of sources will cause most amateur 2M transceivers front ends to 'collapse' and you'd hear the wildest mix of transmitters.

The only amateur transceiver I knew that began to withstand the intense RF at that location had "helical resonators" in the front end between the antenna port and RF stages.

?

There are two types of intercept.

IP2

?

IP3

?

The PA0RDT, and other active antennas, can be modeled on a very short antenna coupled to a broadband RF amplifier.

The PA0RDT antenna works because the output transistor can withstand fairly high Ic, much more then most other affordable transistors.

There are other ways to get there but the PA0RDT is the simplest.

The FJET input device presents an extremely high input impedance with a very low gate capacitance.

MOSFETs have issues, many issues, that make them unsuitable for sane LF~HF active antenna designs.

?

One of the nightmares of cellphone antenna systems is they have to deal with a lot of closely spaced RF signals with wildly varied signal strenghts.

If the cellphone companies had their way, there'd be no UHF TV, no 900MHz Part 15 license free devices, nothing but cellphones about 400MHz (and yea that'd wipe out the 70cm ham band and 400MHz business band).

?

RF can get complicated really really fast.

It requires obscenely priced equipment to begin doing decent, repeatable, tests.

?

We (local SW nuts) use a park that is located roughly equidistant between the 3 Lexington MW (AM BCB) transmitters.

590/630/1300 kHz.

By varying the length of the antenna element feeding the amp of the active antenna, one can achieve reasonably accurate IP comparisons for MW.

?

Feel free to go to college, pick up and EE degree, become an amateur radio operator, be lucky enough to work in a 2way shop for a summer, then be taken under the wing of a retired Ph.D. who helped design some of the then state of the art RF systems.

?

Like a point to point RF link at ~20 that required high gain, highly directional antennas, the system operated below the actual local RF noise floor.

?

Another issue is a strong enough signal will cause any amplifier to go into gain compression. And that my friend is a story for another day. [though it is related to IP]

?

The PA0RDT was the first practical, extremely short antenna, active antenna that actually worked. Of course there are a whole slew of "you gotta do this" to make it work right.

Simply put, you have to stop EMI, radio noise, from your home from reaching the antenna via the feedline [coax]. This is an extremely challenging theoretical exercise and will drive you crazy doing it in the real world.

?

The site has an explanation of how these antennas work and what must be done to begin to achieve this.

?

There probably need to be two new IO Groups, one for "Active antennas" [active E-Probe antennas] and EMI, what it is and mitigation.

?

The last one is even more of a challenge then E-Probe antennas.

I've considered starting them but to do the job right would require about 10 times the time I can devote to it, and there is no point doing anything half assed.

?

This is probably the best single resource into E-Probe Active Antennas. I suggest reading it and following all the links. Too many will return 'dead' but most will work.

The W0QE Active Monopole Preamplifier is one of the better designs out there.

And Chris Trask's designs are excellent but a challenge to find since his webpage went dark.

?

In short, RF is a pain in the tush. If I had any sense I'd pick a different hobby. But then if I had any sense I'd be rich.?

?

?


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

wn4isx
 

Re static electricity on an antenna....

Wind, simple dry wind can induce enough voltage on a ~100 foot, 30 foot off the ground, random wire antenna to light neon bulbs. And that's with insulated wire.

Rain, snow, sleet, freezing rain (dear God freezing rain on steroids!) and lowly flying insects can all induce, oh yea, almost forgot birds, can all induce static electrical charges on antennas.

?

Helicopter blades can produce enough static when spinning to at least knock a man out cold.

?

I installed a 10k bleeder resistor on my first 100 foot antenna that bled off most casual static.

?

Now distant lightning, like distant 100 miles, could cause neon bulbs to explode, lightning at 30 miles would cause NE-1 (or was it NE-2 since I'm the only one who appears to have heard of NE-1) to explode like a blasting cap or shotgun.

?

We video taped blasting caps going off in the air for a mine safety project. Very exciting project, very spooky project. We used Vietnam Conflict era "clackers" designed to set off claymore directional mines. There was something fun about pressing the lever on a clacker and having a blasting cap go off. We must has sat off about 200 for BATF and the US mine safety agency. The campus police closed off the largest parking lot on a Sunday afternoon and had men keeping lookyloos away.

?

Now imagine that at 2:00AM on a school night. My parents weren't exactly upset, more concerned. The next afternoon Daddy installed ceramic based knife switches right out of a Frankenstein movie set, two switches, one to short the antenna to ground, the other to short the radio antenna to chassis.

?

Yea my life has been a tad too interesting at times.

?

[Were you ever silly enough to ride curled up in a heavy equipment tire down a 1000 foot slope of a hill 600 feet above local terrain? And end up in a river. Thought not. Now my parents were really upset over that one but I was 8 and my idiot cousins were 16 and thought it'd be a fun joke. It was actually quite fun. I'm told the tire bounced about 50 feet high before hitting the water. I had more trouble getting out of the tire before drowning in 20 feet of water then anything else. I was giggling as I swam ashore, my mother was sobbing, that was the moment I realized "Ought oh ... done messed up here.

My father made my cousins pull the tire from the river and cut it up with a oxy-acetylene torch."


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

wn4isx
 

There is no way I can begin to explain intercept point without a lot of unsane math and graphics.

?

The short answer, at some signal strength and amplifier fed two (or more) signals will start to mix with each other, IE intermod.

?

A real world example. On the corner of Broadway and Main Street the 2M [140~160MHz] from a variety of sources will cause most amateur 2M transceivers front ends to 'collapse' and you'd hear the wildest mix of transmitters.

The only amateur transceiver I knew that began to withstand the intense RF at that location had "helical resonators" in the front end between the antenna port and RF stages.

?

There are two types of intercept.

IP2

https://www.everythingrf.com/community/what-is-ip2

?

IP3

https://www.everythingrf.com/community/what-is-ip3

?

The PA0RDT, and other active antennas, can be modeled on a very short antenna coupled to a broadband RF amplifier.

The PA0RDT antenna works because the output transistor can withstand fairly high Ic, much more then most other affordable transistors.

There are other ways to get there but the PA0RDT is the simplest.

The FJET input device presents an extremely high input impedance with a very low gate capacitance.

MOSFETs have issues, many issues, that make them unsuitable for sane LF~HF active antenna designs.

?

One of the nightmares of cellphone antenna systems is they have to deal with a lot of closely spaced RF signals with wildly varied signal strenghts.

If the cellphone companies had their way, there'd be no UHF TV, no 900MHz Part 15 license free devices, nothing but cellphones about 400MHz (and yea that'd wipe out the 70cm ham band and 400MHz business band).

?

RF can get complicated really really fast.

It requires obscenely priced equipment to begin doing decent, repeatable, tests.

?

We (local SW nuts) use a park that is located roughly equidistant between the 3 Lexington MW (AM BCB) transmitters.

590/630/1300 kHz.

By varying the length of the antenna element feeding the amp of the active antenna, one can achieve reasonably accurate IP comparisons for MW.

?

Feel free to go to college, pick up and EE degree, become an amateur radio operator, be lucky enough to work in a 2way shop for a summer, then be taken under the wing of a retired Ph.D. who helped design some of the then state of the art RF systems.

?

Like a point to point RF link at ~20 that required high gain, highly directional antennas, the system operated below the actual local RF noise floor.

?

Another issue is a strong enough signal will cause any amplifier to go into gain compression. And that my friend is a story for another day. [though it is related to IP]

?

The PA0RDT was the first practical, extremely short antenna, active antenna that actually worked. Of course there are a whole slew of "you gotta do this" to make it work right.

Simply put, you have to stop EMI, radio noise, from your home from reaching the antenna via the feedline [coax]. This is an extremely challenging theoretical exercise and will drive you crazy doing it in the real world.

?

The site has an explanation of how these antennas work and what must be done to begin to achieve this.

?

There probably need to be two new IO Groups, one for "Active antennas" [active E-Probe antennas] and EMI, what it is and mitigation.

?

The last one is even more of a challenge then E-Probe antennas.

I've considered starting them but to do the job right would require about 10 times the time I can devote to it, and there is no point doing anything half assed.

?

This is probably the best single resource into E-Probe Active Antennas. I suggest reading it and following all the links. Too many will return 'dead' but most will work.

The W0QE Active Monopole Preamplifier is one of the better designs out there.

And Chris Trask's designs are excellent but a challenge to find since his webpage went dark.

?

In short, RF is a pain in the tush. If I had any sense I'd pick a different hobby. But then if I had any sense I'd be rich.?

?

?

?


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

 

On Sunday 09 February 2025 11:18:55 am wn4isx via groups.io wrote:


There are at least dozens of variations shown on the web.

This is one that works as promised....
Interesting stuff. What's that "intercept point" referred to in the pdf?

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin


Re: Some observations on linear power supplies

 

On Saturday 08 February 2025 04:17:52 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
I've blown the epoxy top off some SCRs.
That's surprising, as I thought that those parts had fairly hefty surge ratings. Or at least that's the case with a lot of rectifier diodes...

I rebuilt the power supply for the R390A/URR (24V nominal, 26.5 optimal) and included a OV crowbar.
Because the receiver is connected to a ~100 foot random wire antenna, even on calm afternoons, a stray breeze or insect landing on the wire can induce an extremely short transient that will trip the OV crowbar if you don't have a delay capacitor.
I still don't have any antennas up (yet?) but am thinking about lightning protection and somehow dealing with static charges. It's been mentioned in the NanoVNA group that you don't want to just hook one of those up to an antenna without discharging any static charge that might be on it. We don't get a whole lot of bad storms around here, but we do get some, and spring is the season for those. What might be good to deal with static and not affect the performance of an antenna?

The R390A/R392 are fine receivers but you need to be Arnold Schwarzenegger to tune them. There is one knob for kc another for mc, the receivers have gear/cams inside that can give you quite the workout. They are great for dedicated monitoring of a single frequency, not so friendly to a 73 year old who likes to tune the band, jumping from one frequency to another.
This reminds me of some of the boatanchors I've seen and fiddled with (briefly) at hamfests. Lots of mechanical stuff in there.

I loaned it [gave it really as I have zero intention of taking it back] to a younger member of our shortwave club who loves it.

For TTL/CMOS/ Perseus, etc, I try not to have transients on the Vout rail. Try really hard and generally succeed. My failures were with pre 3 terminal regulators. Trying to roll you own precision 24V power supply with limited knowledge was a learning experience. Fortunately my V+ in was 30V so the R392 tolerated short mistakes with no magic smoke escaping,.
I have no current need for 24V, though if I ever get going on any of the CNC stuff that I've considered playing with I might find it useful. Mostly it's 5v and 12v, and lately there's a bit of stuff that uses 3.3v...

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin


Re: msi 2500 sdr as a panadaptor

wn4isx
 

?
There are at least dozens of variations shown on the web.
?
This is one that works as promised....
?
?


Re: Willem xProm programmer ...

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Interesting ...

On 09/02/2025 15:19, sdmonaco via groups.io wrote:

This shows how to do it with the ver. 4 device. Should be similar.


Re: Buffer amplifier for 10MHz ?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks for the info ...

On 09/02/2025 11:01, wn4isx via groups.io wrote:

Unless the input signal goes below ground, to a negative voltage, this IC is very tolerant of noisy signals with no ringing or overshoot. A 1k or even a 10k resistor certainly won't hurt the performance.
?