Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
David,
Thank you for sharing this article.?
Unfortunately, its focus is using V2G for blackout mitigation and extreme weather events when the grid is stretched to capacity, rather than on daily use to avoid massive grid upgrades and not having gas peaker, and eventually nuclear, plants supply the grid.?
The investor owned utilities make money on capital improvement projects, so they are motivated to avoid widely implemented V2G (and even distributed utility owned grid storage) until after they make colossal profits on massive grid upgrades; they’d rather have V2G just to avoid blackouts.
Likely, we will need to overhaul the IOU’s incentive structure to get them on board with large scale adoption of V2G.
So, we need to support mavericks willing to explore inexpensive V2G technologies and actively lobby the PUC, utilities, politicians, vehicle and charger manufacturers, and VPPs to add budget electric-vehicle-based grid storage to our climate recovery portfolio.?
Thanks.?
Lawrence?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 15, 2024, at 5:11?PM, David Coale <david@...> wrote: ? There is a bill that passed the CA legislature that will help make V2G a reality, see article below:
I am sure someone will figure out how to aggregate this into a virtual power plant. ?You need the hardware for this and the right price and it will go. ?According to the article, this could more then triple the storage on the CA grid today.
David
I beg to differ!
Every PV to grid setup (rooftop solar) has a grid following inverter that disconnects from the grid when it is down.
This is a proven and approved technology. ?It is safe for line workers.?
Illustrating this, Ford’s V2G (V2H until utilities allow V2G) inverter is a modified Sunrun rooftop solar inverter. ?(V2HG/H/L = Vehicle to Grid/Home/Load)
DIY folks have used off the shelf grid-tie solar inverters to do V2G, but they are either on at full inverter capacity or off. ?I know of an individual that uses this technique to extract DC current from an unmodified EV via its charge port and puts 5KW onto the grid.?
This by itself IS a fine solution for shedding fossil fuels from the grid. ?Understandably, the utilities would like to have some say as to when these blocks of power are added to the grid, but currently they don’t seem interested in allowing it at all.
Perhaps a Virtual Power Plant could step in to do the inverter coordination and sell the power on the 15 minute spot market, as there are the highest contract prices for electricity.?
Using stock PV inverters doesn’t allow for V2Home or V2Load, but those are unimportant in solving global climate change.?
Please lobby your PUC, utilities, politicians, vehicle and charger manufacturers, and VPPs to add budget electric vehicle based grid storage to our climate recovery portfolio.?
Thanks.?
Lawrence?
On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:48?PM, Arthur Keller < arthur@...> wrote: ? What's delaying V2G?
Fear of power leaking onto grid when the grid is down. ?In other words, energizing a line when it is down is dangerous to line workers trying to repair the outage.
Best regards, Arthur On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:06?PM, Jeff Chan < eaasv@...> wrote:
On Thu, 2024-08-22 at 21:04 +0300, David Herron wrote:The combination of wind+solar+storage (and maybe hydro) is a
renewable
energy solution.
Apparently, California now has enough grid-scale storage installed
to be
able to time-shift lots of excess solar-power from daytime
production to
evening consumption.? I know of this from Tweets by Prof. Mark
Jacobson
throughout this year.
The issue is what's called "The Duck Curve" which refers to the
shape of
energy production on the grid as more and more solar resources come
online.? When the evening comes, the sun goes down, the winds tend
to die
down, then renewable energy is not available, and the utility
companies
have to quickly ramp up something like natural gas peaker plants.
The purpose of the grid-scale energy storage is to instead soak up
solar
energy during the day, release it during the evening/night, and
avoid using
fossil fuel plants.
"Energy storage" doesn't have to be lithium-ion batteries.? For
example
there is "solar thermal" systems that can heat up something simple
like
rocks, that can later be used to drive a turbine.
Thermal storage is about 60% round trip efficiency. ?Can be higher ifthe heat has other uses, like heating.Battery round trip efficiency is about 80%. ?Pumped hydro and gravitystorage about the same.One massive storage resource currently being underutlized is Vehicleto Grid. ?Perhaps David has good numbers for this, but how much potentiallyuseful grid storage is there in EV battery packs? ??What's delayingV2G?Cheers,Jeff C.
|
Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
There is a bill that passed the CA legislature that will help make V2G a reality, see article below:
I am sure someone will figure out how to aggregate this into a virtual power plant. ?You need the hardware for this and the right price and it will go. ?According to the article, this could more then triple the storage on the CA grid today.
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I beg to differ!
Every PV to grid setup (rooftop solar) has a grid following inverter that disconnects from the grid when it is down.
This is a proven and approved technology. ?It is safe for line workers.?
Illustrating this, Ford’s V2G (V2H until utilities allow V2G) inverter is a modified Sunrun rooftop solar inverter. ?(V2HG/H/L = Vehicle to Grid/Home/Load)
DIY folks have used off the shelf grid-tie solar inverters to do V2G, but they are either on at full inverter capacity or off. ?I know of an individual that uses this technique to extract DC current from an unmodified EV via its charge port and puts 5KW onto the grid.?
This by itself IS a fine solution for shedding fossil fuels from the grid. ?Understandably, the utilities would like to have some say as to when these blocks of power are added to the grid, but currently they don’t seem interested in allowing it at all.
Perhaps a Virtual Power Plant could step in to do the inverter coordination and sell the power on the 15 minute spot market, as there are the highest contract prices for electricity.?
Using stock PV inverters doesn’t allow for V2Home or V2Load, but those are unimportant in solving global climate change.?
Please lobby your PUC, utilities, politicians, vehicle and charger manufacturers, and VPPs to add budget electric vehicle based grid storage to our climate recovery portfolio.?
Thanks.?
Lawrence?
On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:48?PM, Arthur Keller < arthur@...> wrote: ? What's delaying V2G?
Fear of power leaking onto grid when the grid is down. ?In other words, energizing a line when it is down is dangerous to line workers trying to repair the outage.
Best regards, Arthur On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:06?PM, Jeff Chan < eaasv@...> wrote:
On Thu, 2024-08-22 at 21:04 +0300, David Herron wrote:The combination of wind+solar+storage (and maybe hydro) is a
renewable
energy solution.
Apparently, California now has enough grid-scale storage installed
to be
able to time-shift lots of excess solar-power from daytime
production to
evening consumption.? I know of this from Tweets by Prof. Mark
Jacobson
throughout this year.
The issue is what's called "The Duck Curve" which refers to the
shape of
energy production on the grid as more and more solar resources come
online.? When the evening comes, the sun goes down, the winds tend
to die
down, then renewable energy is not available, and the utility
companies
have to quickly ramp up something like natural gas peaker plants.
The purpose of the grid-scale energy storage is to instead soak up
solar
energy during the day, release it during the evening/night, and
avoid using
fossil fuel plants.
"Energy storage" doesn't have to be lithium-ion batteries.? For
example
there is "solar thermal" systems that can heat up something simple
like
rocks, that can later be used to drive a turbine.
Thermal storage is about 60% round trip efficiency. ?Can be higher ifthe heat has other uses, like heating.Battery round trip efficiency is about 80%. ?Pumped hydro and gravitystorage about the same.One massive storage resource currently being underutlized is Vehicleto Grid. ?Perhaps David has good numbers for this, but how much potentiallyuseful grid storage is there in EV battery packs? ??What's delayingV2G?Cheers,Jeff C.
|
Ried Hillview Airport Community Day
?
Hello All
?
You are invited to the Ried Hillview Airport Community Day.? The
Silicon Valley Electric Vehicle Association will be having a booth and will be
displaying cars.? Come on by and support our effort.? There will be
die cast cars for the little ones.? Hope to see you there.
?
George Stuckert
VP SVEVA
?
?
?
|
September 14 - EAASV Booth Info for Silicon Valley Fall Fest in Cupertino
Hello,
Here is the detailed info regarding the event on Saturday, September 14.
Our VP George Stuckert will have his 1953 Studebaker EV conversion on display and I will bring my 2002 RAV 4 EV.??
If anyone has a more modern EV they would like to display, please let me know by sending me a text message to 408-464-0711.? We may have room for one additional EV. You must arrive between 9:00 and 9:30 AM.? ?We plan to leave by 3 PM although the event will go until 6 PM. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Kelly Wissmar <kwissmar94087@...>Date: Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 11:59?AM Subject: September 14 - Booth Info for Silicon Valley Fall Fest To: Jerry Pohorsky < jerry.pohorsky@...
Dear Jerry Pohorsky,
Thank you for registering for the
on Saturday, September 14 at Cupertino
Memorial Park!? We’re excited to have Electric Vehicle Association - Silicon Valley Chapter?join us.
Booth Details:
- Booth Number:?E20
- Your booth will include a 10'x10' space, a
6'x3' table, and 2 chairs.
- Canopy: You are welcome to bring your own canopy not to exceed 10'x10'; canopies should have weighted legs.?
- Electrical Hookup:?No electrical
hookup will be provided.
- Notes: Hi Jerry - Can you tell me how many EVs you plan to bring? Thanks, Kelly
Setup & Event Schedule:
- Event Hours: 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM
- Setup begins at 7:00 AM Saturday
(Friday setup available after 5:00 PM on request).? Arrivals
after 9:30 AM cannot be accommodated.
- The Opening Ceremony, featuring the National Anthem and
Mayor’s Welcome, will conclude ~10:30 AM.? We
ask that you wait until then to open your booth.
- When you are ready to depart, please visit the Rotary Info Booth,
and we’ll assist in transporting your supplies back to Alves
Drive for pick-up.
- Enjoy Live Music, the Fine Arts Show, Gourmet Food Trucks
and Craft Beer Tasting until 6:30 PM.? Feel
free to stay as long as you like!
Check-in Instructions:
- Location: 10169 Mary Ave, Cupertino.? .
- From Stevens Creek Blvd., turn RIGHT
onto Mary Ave.
- Proceed 1/2 block along Mary Ave,
where our Vendor Check-in Team will greet you, help unload
your supplies, and transport them to your booth.
- Please limit parking at Mary Ave Check-in Area to 10 minutes while
unloading.? Afterward, you may find street parking on Mary Ave or free parking in the .
Note:? Food products may not be distributed without prior approval
and submission of your TFF permit.
Thank you so much for your participation!? You are what makes this
festival awesome! ?
Check out our
website to see?
?
Please let me know
if you have any questions.
Best Regards,
Kelly Wissmar (event day contact: 408-390-9055)
Cupertino Rotary
Fall Fest Vendor Booth Coordinator
![image.png]() 
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Re: ACTION ALERT: Ask Gov. Newsom to sign bill AB 2401-for EVs for gasoline-burdened families
I am unfamiliar with this bill, and its context.? Is anyone familiar with some of the peripheral probems such as mineral shortages, and grid Adequacy?
Thanks,
Ken Streib
On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 01:31:22 PM PDT, Sybil J. Cramer <sybiljcramer256@...> wrote:
For those of you who believe in political action to promote EV Adoption:
Consider sending a message to Gov Newsom via the red link below after reading Rob’s message. You will have to create your own message to the Gov. This was mine: Best, Sybil
- I am writing to urge you to sign AB 2401.
- This is a bill with strong bipartisan support that will enhance the environmental, economic, and equity benefits of California's leading EV incentive program. It will benefit the many constituents who are eager to drive clean and green electric vehicles.
- This legislation sets a national precedent by directing EV programs toward those who would see the greatest benefit.?
- The bill also maximizes the emissions reduced per dollar spent on the incentives.
Thank you for your support of increasing EV adoption in California. Sincerely, Sybil Cramer
Subject: ACTION ALERT: Ask Gov. Newsom to sign bill for EVs for gasoline-burdened families
Date: September 6, 2024 at 12:05:17 PM PDT
Reply-To: Rob Sargent, Coltura <info@...>
| Dear friend,
Last Friday, the California Legislature passed??and sent it to Governor Newsom for his signature. The bill would update California's landmark Clean Cars for All program to prioritize the switch to EVs for lower-income, high mileage drivers of older, dirtier cars.
The bill has the support of a wide array of stakeholders and arrived on the Governor’s desk after unanimous bi-partisan votes in both the Assembly (72-0) and the Senate (39-0).
It is now up to Governor Newsom to sign the bill.?The bill is a common sense bill with tremendous support. So, we hope he will sign it. But it is by no means assured. Last year, he vetoed more than 150 of 1,000 bills that reached his desk. Help get AB2401 over the finish line by showing your support for the bill. |
| |
Clicking ?button?will open the following pre-drafted sample comment to be sent to ?leg.unit@...: |
| Subject: Support for AB2401 (Ting)
I’m writing to ask you to sign AB 2401, a practical bill with strong bipartisan support that aims to enhance the environmental, economic, and equity benefits of California's leading EV incentive program. This legislation sets a national precedent by directing EV programs toward those who would see the greatest benefit. The bill also maximizes the emissions reduced per dollar spent on the incentives.
Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, |
| |
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ACTION ALERT: Ask Gov. Newsom to sign bill AB 2401-for EVs for gasoline-burdened families
For those of you who believe in political action to promote EV Adoption:
Consider sending a message to Gov Newsom via the red link below after reading Rob’s message. You will have to create your own message to the Gov. This was mine: Best, Sybil
- I am writing to urge you to sign AB 2401.
- This is a bill with strong bipartisan support that will enhance the environmental, economic, and equity benefits of California's leading EV incentive program. It will benefit the many constituents who are eager to drive clean and green electric vehicles.
- This legislation sets a national precedent by directing EV programs toward those who would see the greatest benefit.?
- The bill also maximizes the emissions reduced per dollar spent on the incentives.
Thank you for your support of increasing EV adoption in California. Sincerely, Sybil Cramer
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Subject: ACTION ALERT: Ask Gov. Newsom to sign bill for EVs for gasoline-burdened families
Date: September 6, 2024 at 12:05:17 PM PDT
Reply-To: Rob Sargent, Coltura <info@...>
| Dear friend,
Last Friday, the California Legislature passed??and sent it to Governor Newsom for his signature. The bill would update California's landmark Clean Cars for All program to prioritize the switch to EVs for lower-income, high mileage drivers of older, dirtier cars.
The bill has the support of a wide array of stakeholders and arrived on the Governor’s desk after unanimous bi-partisan votes in both the Assembly (72-0) and the Senate (39-0).
It is now up to Governor Newsom to sign the bill.?The bill is a common sense bill with tremendous support. So, we hope he will sign it. But it is by no means assured. Last year, he vetoed more than 150 of 1,000 bills that reached his desk. Help get AB2401 over the finish line by showing your support for the bill. |
| |
Clicking ?button?will open the following pre-drafted sample comment to be sent to ?leg.unit@...: |
| Subject: Support for AB2401 (Ting)
I’m writing to ask you to sign AB 2401, a practical bill with strong bipartisan support that aims to enhance the environmental, economic, and equity benefits of California's leading EV incentive program. This legislation sets a national precedent by directing EV programs toward those who would see the greatest benefit. The bill also maximizes the emissions reduced per dollar spent on the incentives.
Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, |
| |
|
|
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Silicon Valley Fall Fest September 14, 2024 10-6
?
Hello All
?
Your are invited to the Fall Fest in Cupertino this Saturday.? It is a
great event for the family and the Silicon Valley EVA chapter will be having a
booth and display cars.? Please come and stop by to say Hi and to get a
free die cast car for the little ones.? See you there.
?
George
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
San Jose EVA meeting Saturday September 14, 2024 10-12
Hello All,
If you are interested in Electric Vehicles, consider attending one of our
meetings.
All EVA meetings are free and open to anyone who is interested in
Electric Vehicles (EVs).
The meetings are held on the 2nd Saturday of every month.
From 10 A.M. until 12 noon
The meetings are held at the Reid Hillview Airport terminal building.
Located at 2500 Cunningham Ave, San Jose, CA
Directions to the meetings are as follows.
Take Hwy. 101 to Hwy. 680 North, exit & turn right onto Capital
Expressway.
Travel on Capital Expressway West for approximately 2 miles;
turn right onto Cunningham. The meeting room is in the terminal at the
end of the road.
A typical meeting of the SJEVA is casual and informative. A round table
is held after chapter business is completed. Topics are typically very
technical from the folks who are building and driving real world electric
vehicles today. Come attend a free EVA meeting and learn from EVA members
who have been building and driving Electric Vehicles for 50 years.
Become a San Jose EAA Member of our nonprofit organization and Show Your
Support for a cleaner public transportation option.
George Stuckert
Secretary, SJEVA
|
Re: Chevy once again underestimates customers...
Agree, the lack of understanding and misconceptions is staggering for something that has been around this long.
|
Paid Internship for College Student - available now
Hey Jerry, this is Pete Christensen at Breathe California.
We need to hire a student Intern ASAP for the fall semester working 15 to 20 hours per week on the Clean Cities program. ? Training will be provided.
It is a paid internship by the way, and it starts next Tuesday September 3rd.
We can extend the deadline for a week or so if needed, but no later than September 13th.
We'd love to have a college student who is enrolled in a masters program or at least working on an undergrad degree (although they do not need to be currently enrolled).? The internship would also include the winter and spring semesters. ?
The student can work remotely most of the time, however we would like them to come into the San Jose office one day a week, hopefully on Wednesdays. ?
There is a 3 week break between semesters that is unpaid and there is also one unpaid week during each semester. If you know of anyone who would be a good match for this opening,
please contact Pete Christensen directly via email at petechris23@...?
Thanks,?
Pete
|
Re: Chevy once again underestimates customers...
I agree with Jeff wholeheartedly. I am often amazed at how little some people know about EVs/Charging, etc at NDEW and DEEM EV Display Days. And also about what misinformation they have about EVs.
Sybil
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 25, 2024, at 2:58 PM, Jeff Chan via groups.io <eaasv@...> wrote:
On Sun, 2024-08-25 at 06:30 -0400, Peter Blackford wrote:
Anyone else find the latest Chevy EV ad insulting?
"Chevy lets you begin each day fully charged....."
Yeah, just like EVERY OTHER EV (if you remember to plug it in!:
Sheesh!
Actually I find this excellent: GM is educating consumers about one of
the very major benefits of EVs: the ability to refuel at any place
that has electricity, particularly overnight charging at home.
For non-EV drivers this may literally be something they've never
thought of and it's definitely one of the best things about EV
driving.
It's in a more positive, educational vein than the Nissan Leaf ads
many years ago with gasoline engine powered cell phones, ICE powered
walkmen, etc., showing the absurdity of needing to burn fossil fuels
to power things, as a benefit of using electricity instead.
So no, I don't take it as an insult. I take it as potentially
massively growing the EV market by hopefully educating millions of
more people that an EV can be charged overnight at home and have a
"full tank" every morning, without ever needing to leave home to go to
a gas station.
Literally not everyone knows this yet.
Cheers,
Jeff C.
|
Re: Chevy once again underestimates customers...
On Sun, 2024-08-25 at 06:30 -0400, Peter Blackford wrote: Anyone else find the latest Chevy EV ad insulting?
"Chevy lets you begin each day fully charged....."
Yeah, just like EVERY OTHER EV (if you remember to plug it in!:
Sheesh! Actually I find this excellent: GM is educating consumers about one of the very major benefits of EVs: the ability to refuel at any place that has electricity, particularly overnight charging at home. For non-EV drivers this may literally be something they've never thought of and it's definitely one of the best things about EV driving. It's in a more positive, educational vein than the Nissan Leaf ads many years ago with gasoline engine powered cell phones, ICE powered walkmen, etc., showing the absurdity of needing to burn fossil fuels to power things, as a benefit of using electricity instead. So no, I don't take it as an insult. I take it as potentially massively growing the EV market by hopefully educating millions of more people that an EV can be charged overnight at home and have a "full tank" every morning, without ever needing to leave home to go to a gas station. Literally not everyone knows this yet. Cheers, Jeff C.
|
Chevy once again underestimates customers...
Anyone else find the latest Chevy EV ad insulting? "Chevy lets you begin each day fully charged....." Yeah, just like EVERY OTHER EV (if you remember to plug it in!: Sheesh!
|
Re: V2G Ongoing Discussion
Dave, thanks for this excellent article.
Not mentioned were the circa-2011 University of Delaware proof-of-concept demonstrations using the BMW Mini-e which utilized the AC Propulsion technology.
There is so much more benefit to accessing the energy available in an EV's huge battery pack than the relatively-small residential battery-backup systems presently available.
The future has been here for many years - what is needed is collaboration amongst vehicle manufacturers, utilities, governments, etc., to establish and agree and implement hardware and protocol (ISO 15118?) so we can move ahead.
A google search of V2G shows lots of activity, but I'm afraid that implementation will not occur in my lifetime. :-(
JoeS
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 23, 2024, at 08:19, dave noran via groups.io <dave_noran@...> wrote:
The very interesting history of V2G .....
.... which concludes with a good analysis of current status.
|
Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
The very interesting history of V2G .....
.... which concludes with a good analysis of current status.
.
|
Hello All
Thank you for your reply about my problem with the backup camera on my
Model 3 not working and causing the cruise control also to the work.
Went to the Tesla Service yesterday and they diagnosed the problem to be
the cable to the camera. I got a recall notice April of this year, but
since I was not having any problem, I ignored it. Service is coming to
my house Monday to replace the cable. Thanks again for your support and
hope to see you all at the Ride and Drive at Lake Cunningham park.
George
|
Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
On Thu, 2024-08-22 at 13:48 -0700, Arthur Keller wrote: What's delaying
V2G?
Fear of power leaking onto grid when the grid is down.? In other
words, energizing a line when it is down is dangerous to line
workers trying to repair the outage.
Best regards,
Arthur Presumably the V2G protocol takes this into account and doesn't energize a depowered line. Jeff C.
|
Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
I beg to differ!
Every PV to grid setup (rooftop solar) has a grid following inverter that disconnects from the grid when it is down.
This is a proven and approved technology. ?It is safe for line workers.?
Illustrating this, Ford’s V2G (V2H until utilities allow V2G) inverter is a modified Sunrun rooftop solar inverter. ?(V2HG/H/L = Vehicle to Grid/Home/Load)
DIY folks have used off the shelf grid-tie solar inverters to do V2G, but they are either on at full inverter capacity or off. ?I know of an individual that uses this technique to extract DC current from an unmodified EV via its charge port and puts 5KW onto the grid.?
This by itself IS a fine solution for shedding fossil fuels from the grid. ?Understandably, the utilities would like to have some say as to when these blocks of power are added to the grid, but currently they don’t seem interested in allowing it at all.
Perhaps a Virtual Power Plant could step in to do the inverter coordination and sell the power on the 15 minute spot market, as there are the highest contract prices for electricity.?
Using stock PV inverters doesn’t allow for V2Home or V2Load, but those are unimportant in solving global climate change.?
Please lobby your PUC, utilities, politicians, vehicle and charger manufacturers, and VPPs to add budget electric vehicle based grid storage to our climate recovery portfolio.?
Thanks.?
Lawrence?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:48?PM, Arthur Keller <arthur@...> wrote: ? What's delaying V2G?
Fear of power leaking onto grid when the grid is down. ?In other words, energizing a line when it is down is dangerous to line workers trying to repair the outage.
Best regards, Arthur On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:06?PM, Jeff Chan <eaasv@...> wrote:
On Thu, 2024-08-22 at 21:04 +0300, David Herron wrote:The combination of wind+solar+storage (and maybe hydro) is a
renewable
energy solution.
Apparently, California now has enough grid-scale storage installed
to be
able to time-shift lots of excess solar-power from daytime
production to
evening consumption.? I know of this from Tweets by Prof. Mark
Jacobson
throughout this year.
The issue is what's called "The Duck Curve" which refers to the
shape of
energy production on the grid as more and more solar resources come
online.? When the evening comes, the sun goes down, the winds tend
to die
down, then renewable energy is not available, and the utility
companies
have to quickly ramp up something like natural gas peaker plants.
The purpose of the grid-scale energy storage is to instead soak up
solar
energy during the day, release it during the evening/night, and
avoid using
fossil fuel plants.
"Energy storage" doesn't have to be lithium-ion batteries.? For
example
there is "solar thermal" systems that can heat up something simple
like
rocks, that can later be used to drive a turbine.
Thermal storage is about 60% round trip efficiency. ?Can be higher ifthe heat has other uses, like heating.Battery round trip efficiency is about 80%. ?Pumped hydro and gravitystorage about the same.One massive storage resource currently being underutlized is Vehicleto Grid. ?Perhaps David has good numbers for this, but how much potentiallyuseful grid storage is there in EV battery packs? ??What's delayingV2G?Cheers,Jeff C.
|
Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
What's delaying V2G?
Fear of power leaking onto grid when the grid is down. ?In other words, energizing a line when it is down is dangerous to line workers trying to repair the outage.
Best regards,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:06?PM, Jeff Chan <eaasv@...> wrote:
On Thu, 2024-08-22 at 21:04 +0300, David Herron wrote:The combination of wind+solar+storage (and maybe hydro) is a
renewable
energy solution.
Apparently, California now has enough grid-scale storage installed
to be
able to time-shift lots of excess solar-power from daytime
production to
evening consumption.? I know of this from Tweets by Prof. Mark
Jacobson
throughout this year.
The issue is what's called "The Duck Curve" which refers to the
shape of
energy production on the grid as more and more solar resources come
online.? When the evening comes, the sun goes down, the winds tend
to die
down, then renewable energy is not available, and the utility
companies
have to quickly ramp up something like natural gas peaker plants.
The purpose of the grid-scale energy storage is to instead soak up
solar
energy during the day, release it during the evening/night, and
avoid using
fossil fuel plants.
"Energy storage" doesn't have to be lithium-ion batteries.? For
example
there is "solar thermal" systems that can heat up something simple
like
rocks, that can later be used to drive a turbine.
Thermal storage is about 60% round trip efficiency. ?Can be higher ifthe heat has other uses, like heating.Battery round trip efficiency is about 80%. ?Pumped hydro and gravitystorage about the same.One massive storage resource currently being underutlized is Vehicleto Grid. ?Perhaps David has good numbers for this, but how much potentiallyuseful grid storage is there in EV battery packs? ??What's delayingV2G?Cheers,Jeff C.
|
Re: [Shared Post] 'A game changer': How giant batteries are making California's power grid stronger, and reducing the risk of blackouts during heat waves
On Thu, 2024-08-22 at 21:04 +0300, David Herron wrote: The combination of wind+solar+storage (and maybe hydro) is a
renewable
energy solution.
Apparently, California now has enough grid-scale storage installed
to be
able to time-shift lots of excess solar-power from daytime
production to
evening consumption.? I know of this from Tweets by Prof. Mark
Jacobson
throughout this year.
The issue is what's called "The Duck Curve" which refers to the
shape of
energy production on the grid as more and more solar resources come
online.? When the evening comes, the sun goes down, the winds tend
to die
down, then renewable energy is not available, and the utility
companies
have to quickly ramp up something like natural gas peaker plants.
The purpose of the grid-scale energy storage is to instead soak up
solar
energy during the day, release it during the evening/night, and
avoid using
fossil fuel plants.
"Energy storage" doesn't have to be lithium-ion batteries.? For
example
there is "solar thermal" systems that can heat up something simple
like
rocks, that can later be used to drive a turbine. Thermal storage is about 60% round trip efficiency. Can be higher if the heat has other uses, like heating. Battery round trip efficiency is about 80%. Pumped hydro and gravity storage about the same. One massive storage resource currently being underutlized is Vehicle to Grid. ? Perhaps David has good numbers for this, but how much potentially useful grid storage is there in EV battery packs? What's delaying V2G? Cheers, Jeff C.
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