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Hi All. A newbie question. Does it possible to run d-rats on-air exchange through not physical repeater, but through XRF or XLX reflector using hotspot? all station in the same ratflector on the net. Thanks in advance. 73 de ES4RM
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A hotspot allows any radio to communicate over any type of reflector or repeater gateway. The purpose of a reflector is to allow all connected stations to communicate with each other.
Hope that helps. :> --Dan
Dan Goldstein KJ6KEU ARRL ARES East Bay Section Emergency Coordinator
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 5:51 AM < es4rm@...> wrote: Hi All. A newbie question. Does it possible to run d-rats on-air exchange through not physical repeater, but through XRF or XLX reflector using hotspot? all station in the same ratflector on the net. Thanks in advance. 73 de ES4RM
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D-RATS uses the low speed data portion of the D-STAR data stream. In my experience, not all hotspots pass D-STAR low speed data (DV Tool, for example). Since GPS data is also sent as low speed data, you can test the path by enabling GPS on your radio and trade position reports with another station which has GPS enabled on their radio. If you can send and receive GPS reports with the other station, then your hotspot should be able to send D-RATS data also.
Patrick (N3TSZ)
On Friday, April 9, 2021, 01:29:50 PM EDT, Dan Goldstein <dgold94544@...> wrote:
A hotspot allows any radio to communicate over any type of reflector or repeater gateway. The purpose of a reflector is to allow all connected stations to communicate with each other.
Hope that helps. :> --Dan
Dan Goldstein KJ6KEU ARRL ARES East Bay Section Emergency Coordinator
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 5:51 AM < es4rm@...> wrote: Hi All. A newbie question. Does it possible to run d-rats on-air exchange through not physical repeater, but through XRF or XLX reflector using hotspot? all station in the same ratflector on the net. Thanks in advance. 73 de ES4RM
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Thank you Patrick and Dan. Will check out my hotspot. This is typical mmdvm simplex on Raspberry Pi. DPRS packets are always passed well.?
73 de ES4RM, Sergei
Sent from myMail for iOS
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Another local ham and I both communicated D-Rats via hotspots to the D-Plus Reflector 48B here in Louisiana.??Our local repeater lost its Internet connection after Hurricane Zeta came through our area last year.??He was using a Zumspot and I was using an older??DV-Mega on a Raspberry Pi.??So, you can run D-Rats through a hotspot.??The question is will the repeater or reflector you are using allow data transfers.
Many of the XL series repeaters and reflectors are built using MMDVM boards and computers that were connected to originally standard analog repeaters.??According to our local repeater guru, there is a setting in the MMDVM software that the repeater/reflector owners need to set to allow the digital data to be utilized.??There is a reason for this.??When a station is operating D-Rats, whenever you type something in chat, send out a position report, etc., the program keys the radio to transmit if the channel is not busy.??If you are transmitting, either sending or receiving files or email, the program is keying the radio sending acknowledgements or data.??To others on the system trying to use voice only, it looks like someone is just constantly kerchunking the repeater as no audio is being heard.??This usually becomes annoying to folks used to just hearing voice traffic and can tie up the repeater for several minutes at a time if large files are being sent.??Some repeater owners may choose to turn the D-rats capability off.??Most of the larger repeater and reflector stacks have either an Alpha and/or Delta option besides the VHF and UHF B and C modules to give the people wanting to send data a place to go that won¡¯t interfere with the local voice traffic.
If you find that you are unable to send D-Rats traffic through that particular XLX, or DCS repeater/reflector you may need to check with the owner/operator to see if he has allowed or turned off that feature before you decide that your setup is the problem.??D-Rats is also capable of operating on a simplex channel to another local station.??That is the way to utilize D-Rats in an emergency situation where local repeaters, or the Internet has failed.??Just remember, when you are using D-Rats via any route going through a repeater, reflector, or hotspot, you may be keying up and tying up a large number of other systems.??This is the main reason that during normal operation, we like to keep the ratflectors Internet-only.??If a ratflector is connected to RF it is going to affect a large amount of infrastructure that others might want to be using.??Just imagine the havoc it would cause if a ratflector with folks passing traffic were connected to something like REF 30C.??During emergency conditions, yes, the reflector could be placed under net control and the system used by any means necessary by the folks involved in the emergency, but we try to keep other uses to a minimum during times of normal operation.
Cordially,
Glen - KG5CEN
StTammany.ratflector.com
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For all of the reasons Glenn mentioned, my Ratflector radios are on frequencies that are not used for Voice traffic. They are at the club's repeater site, and therefore cover the same area, but do not have to share the frequency with voice users.
Patrick (N3TSZ)
On Saturday, April 10, 2021, 03:37:24 PM EDT, Glen Strecker <gstrecker55@...> wrote:
Another local ham and I both communicated D-Rats via hotspots to the D-Plus Reflector 48B here in Louisiana.??Our local repeater lost its Internet connection after Hurricane Zeta came through our area last year.??He was using a Zumspot and I was using an older??DV-Mega on a Raspberry Pi.??So, you can run D-Rats through a hotspot.??The question is will the repeater or reflector you are using allow data transfers.
Many of the XL series repeaters and reflectors are built using MMDVM boards and computers that were connected to originally standard analog repeaters.??According to our local repeater guru, there is a setting in the MMDVM software that the repeater/reflector owners need to set to allow the digital data to be utilized.??There is a reason for this.??When a station is operating D-Rats, whenever you type something in chat, send out a position report, etc., the program keys the radio to transmit if the channel is not busy.??If you are transmitting, either sending or receiving files or email, the program is keying the radio sending acknowledgements or data.??To others on the system trying to use voice only, it looks like someone is just constantly kerchunking the repeater as no audio is being heard.??This usually becomes annoying to folks used to just hearing voice traffic and can tie up the repeater for several minutes at a time if large files are being sent.??Some repeater owners may choose to turn the D-rats capability off.??Most of the larger repeater and reflector stacks have either an Alpha and/or Delta option besides the VHF and UHF B and C modules to give the people wanting to send data a place to go that won¡¯t interfere with the local voice traffic.
If you find that you are unable to send D-Rats traffic through that particular XLX, or DCS repeater/reflector you may need to check with the owner/operator to see if he has allowed or turned off that feature before you decide that your setup is the problem.??D-Rats is also capable of operating on a simplex channel to another local station.??That is the way to utilize D-Rats in an emergency situation where local repeaters, or the Internet has failed.??Just remember, when you are using D-Rats via any route going through a repeater, reflector, or hotspot, you may be keying up and tying up a large number of other systems.??This is the main reason that during normal operation, we like to keep the ratflectors Internet-only.??If a ratflector is connected to RF it is going to affect a large amount of infrastructure that others might want to be using.??Just imagine the havoc it would cause if a ratflector with folks passing traffic were connected to something like REF 30C.??During emergency conditions, yes, the reflector could be placed under net control and the system used by any means necessary by the folks involved in the emergency, but we try to keep other uses to a minimum during times of normal operation.
Cordially,
Glen - KG5CEN
StTammany.ratflector.com
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Come and feel free to use XLX029D for DATA transfers. Prior to transmitting anything please Turn On (BUSY LOCKOUT) from the menu? selection. BUSY WILL PREVENT ALL PARTIES FROM CRASHING ANOTHERS TRANSMITION. USING BUSY LOCKOUT every time you switch into D-STAR voice or data mode will prevent 80% of all D-STAR hickups. Please listen for several minutes so as not to crash someone's transfer. Please anounce your intentions prior to using the module.? Example N2KTO with DRATS Data! Then Data complete. This lets everyone know its their turn to transmit.?
Sounds like alot of rules but data is very hard to detect being sent. (BUSY LOCK OUT) IS YOUR FRIEND WITH D-STAR DATA AND VOICE.?
(BUSY LOCK OUT) should be turned off for FM analogue operations as the squelch tails on FM repeaters prevent you from keying until the squelch tail has dropped.?
Hope to see some data flowing soon on XLX029D. DASHBOARD? .?
Another local ham and I both communicated D-Rats via hotspots to the D-Plus Reflector 48B here in Louisiana.??Our local repeater lost its Internet connection after Hurricane Zeta came through our area last year.??He was using a Zumspot and I was using an older??DV-Mega on a Raspberry Pi.??So, you can run D-Rats through a hotspot.??The question is will the repeater or reflector you are using allow data transfers.
Many of the XL series repeaters and reflectors are built using MMDVM boards and computers that were connected to originally standard analog repeaters.??According to our local repeater guru, there is a setting in the MMDVM software that the repeater/reflector owners need to set to allow the digital data to be utilized.??There is a reason for this.??When a station is operating D-Rats, whenever you type something in chat, send out a position report, etc., the program keys the radio to transmit if the channel is not busy.??If you are transmitting, either sending or receiving files or email, the program is keying the radio sending acknowledgements or data.??To others on the system trying to use voice only, it looks like someone is just constantly kerchunking the repeater as no audio is being heard.??This usually becomes annoying to folks used to just hearing voice traffic and can tie up the repeater for several minutes at a time if large files are being sent.??Some repeater owners may choose to turn the D-rats capability off.??Most of the larger repeater and reflector stacks have either an Alpha and/or Delta option besides the VHF and UHF B and C modules to give the people wanting to send data a place to go that won¡¯t interfere with the local voice traffic.
If you find that you are unable to send D-Rats traffic through that particular XLX, or DCS repeater/reflector you may need to check with the owner/operator to see if he has allowed or turned off that feature before you decide that your setup is the problem.??D-Rats is also capable of operating on a simplex channel to another local station.??That is the way to utilize D-Rats in an emergency situation where local repeaters, or the Internet has failed.??Just remember, when you are using D-Rats via any route going through a repeater, reflector, or hotspot, you may be keying up and tying up a large number of other systems.??This is the main reason that during normal operation, we like to keep the ratflectors Internet-only.??If a ratflector is connected to RF it is going to affect a large amount of infrastructure that others might want to be using.??Just imagine the havoc it would cause if a ratflector with folks passing traffic were connected to something like REF 30C.??During emergency conditions, yes, the reflector could be placed under net control and the system used by any means necessary by the folks involved in the emergency, but we try to keep other uses to a minimum during times of normal operation.
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The question what bugs me is why do you want to use a reflector
for this?
The reflectors need internet access to be reachable, so you will
get the same service from ratflectors, with the same pros and cons
of any system reachable over the internet.
And if an repeater admin wants to open the repeater to data
traffic, all he has to do is to enable d-rats access (mmdvm host
provides this option).
But to push data over existing reflectors needs the express
permission of the reflector owners sine they where usually not
intended for that purpose. As I already said, reflectors for
d-rats connections are the ratflectors.
Marius, YO2LOJ
On 11/04/2021 00:24, David Hubbell
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Come and feel free to use XLX029D for DATA
transfers. Prior to transmitting anything please Turn On (BUSY
LOCKOUT) from the menu? selection. BUSY WILL PREVENT ALL PARTIES
FROM CRASHING ANOTHERS TRANSMITION. USING BUSY LOCKOUT every
time you switch into D-STAR voice or data mode will prevent 80%
of all D-STAR hickups. Please listen for several minutes so as
not to crash someone's transfer. Please anounce your intentions
prior to using the module.?
Example N2KTO with DRATS Data! Then Data
complete. This lets everyone know its their turn to transmit.?
Sounds like alot of rules but data is very hard
to detect being sent. (BUSY LOCK OUT) IS YOUR FRIEND WITH
D-STAR DATA AND VOICE.?
(BUSY LOCK OUT) should be turned off for FM
analogue operations as the squelch tails on FM repeaters
prevent you from keying until the squelch tail has dropped.?
Hope to see some data flowing soon on XLX029D.
DASHBOARD?
.?
Another local ham and I both communicated
D-Rats via hotspots to the D-Plus Reflector 48B here in
Louisiana.??Our local repeater lost its Internet
connection after Hurricane Zeta came through our area
last year.??He was using a Zumspot and I was using an
older??DV-Mega on a Raspberry Pi.??So, you can run
D-Rats through a hotspot.??The question is will the
repeater or reflector you are using allow data
transfers.
Many of the XL series repeaters and reflectors are built
using MMDVM boards and computers that were connected to
originally standard analog repeaters.??According to our
local repeater guru, there is a setting in the MMDVM
software that the repeater/reflector owners need to set
to allow the digital data to be utilized.??There is a
reason for this.??When a station is operating D-Rats,
whenever you type something in chat, send out a position
report, etc., the program keys the radio to transmit if
the channel is not busy.??If you are transmitting,
either sending or receiving files or email, the program
is keying the radio sending acknowledgements or
data.??To others on the system trying to use voice only,
it looks like someone is just constantly kerchunking the
repeater as no audio is being heard.??This usually
becomes annoying to folks used to just hearing voice
traffic and can tie up the repeater for several minutes
at a time if large files are being sent.??Some repeater
owners may choose to turn the D-rats capability
off.??Most of the larger repeater and reflector stacks
have either an Alpha and/or Delta option besides the VHF
and UHF B and C modules to give the people wanting to
send data a place to go that won¡¯t interfere with the
local voice traffic.
If you find that you are unable to send D-Rats traffic
through that particular XLX, or DCS repeater/reflector
you may need to check with the owner/operator to see if
he has allowed or turned off that feature before you
decide that your setup is the problem.??D-Rats is also
capable of operating on a simplex channel to another
local station.??That is the way to utilize D-Rats in an
emergency situation where local repeaters, or the
Internet has failed.??Just remember, when you are using
D-Rats via any route going through a repeater,
reflector, or hotspot, you may be keying up and tying up
a large number of other systems.??This is the main
reason that during normal operation, we like to keep the
ratflectors Internet-only.??If a ratflector is connected
to RF it is going to affect a large amount of
infrastructure that others might want to be using.??Just
imagine the havoc it would cause if a ratflector with
folks passing traffic were connected to something like
REF 30C.??During emergency conditions, yes, the
reflector could be placed under net control and the
system used by any means necessary by the folks involved
in the emergency, but we try to keep other uses to a
minimum during times of normal operation.
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Exactly, Marius.??We see many who want to get into D-Rats and the first thing they want to do is connect their laptop to the radio to transmit RF data.??When they find out most of us are not running that way during normal times of operation, they get frustrated and can¡¯t understand the situation.? ?D-rats is an excellent tool for use in emergency situations where you are trying to cover a locality or region, such as a county or parish in the case of Louisiana.??In most of the really bad conditions, such as hurricanes, tornados or earth quakes, the infrastructure is taken down.??You lose partial or total Internet coverage.??Maybe the repeater still works and maybe it does not.??Our goal should be to be able to transmit information from local points to the city or county EOC with the EOC keeping in contact with the state.??Sending information via D-Rats or say Winlink is an exercise in getting the needed data out of the ¡°affected area¡± to either a central collection point or to a station that still has Internet capability to allow it to be relayed as needed.
I would recommend having a pre-arranged simplex frequency with your local group.??If a station in the locality still has Internet access, let that station bring up the ratflector software at his location and the ratflector will act as a bridge between folks in the affected area and the Internet.??The published ratflectors are there mainly for practice and to make sure you have all the assorted bells and whistles in the program functioning properly.??Unless a club is supporting the group or there is an emergency in progress that you are assisting with??, most folks are not going to want to tie up their radio on the air 24/7 for a constant D-Rats RF connection.??Even when the Worldwide RAT ratflector was running, there was seldom more than 10 to 20 stations on at any given time unless there was a big net running.??KB8PMY.net is the address of a new ratflector that has been set up to take over as the Worldwide ratflector.??Eventually, he may be able to take over the URL from ref.d-rats.com that came pre-programmed with the software.
Cordially,
Glen - KG5CEN
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Patrick Connor
Glen Strecker