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Announcing drats2 project

 

I have just created a new repository for rewrite of D-Rats.

I think this re-write is needed for several reasons.

1. Most of D-rats users are using Microsoft Windows and the use of GTK+ makes it hard to provide an easy to install package.

2. GTK+ is continuing to make incompatible changes with new versions making it harder make enhancements. The Glade editor for designing GTK+ layouts actually making things harder as it does not seem to be keeping up with GTK.

3. The config subsystem needs a rewrite to fix existing problems and requested features, the existing code structure makes that very difficult.

Tracking Wiki for this new project.



It may be a while before I get something ready for testing, and most of those tests will be of the "hello world" type packages at first just to make sure that everything can install and run.



As this will be being brought up in sections, hopefully it will help someone learn programming and packaging processes.

Regards,
-John
wb8tyw
 

This is a cool development, and I’m mentioning it in this week’s issue of Zero Retries newsletter.

As I mention in Zero Retries, I hope that DRATS2 can implement the “big flip” necessary to be able to use DV Fast Data mode in the Icom D-Star radios that include that mode.

Kudos to WB8TYW!

Steve N8GNJ

---

Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter -?
Radios are Computers - With Antennas!


On Jan 5, 2025 at 12:43:44, John E. Malmberg via <wb8tyw=[email protected]> wrote:

I have just created a new repository for rewrite of D-Rats.

I think this re-write is needed for several reasons.

1. Most of D-rats users are using Microsoft Windows and the use of GTK+
makes it hard to provide an easy to install package.

2. GTK+ is continuing to make incompatible changes with new versions
making it harder make enhancements.? The Glade editor for designing GTK+
layouts actually making things harder as it does not seem to be keeping
up with GTK.

3. The config subsystem needs a rewrite to fix existing problems and
requested features, the existing code structure makes that very difficult.

Tracking Wiki for this new project.



It may be a while before I get something ready for testing, and most of
those tests will be of the "hello world" type packages at first just to
make sure that everything can install and run.



As this will be being brought up in sections, hopefully it will help
someone learn programming and packaging processes.

Regards,
-John
wb8tyw
 

On 1/8/2025 10:49 PM, Steve Stroh via groups.io wrote:
This is a cool development, and I’m mentioning it in this week’s issue of
Zero Retries newsletter.
Thanks.

It is going to take a while as I plan to try to document it as a teaching project as I go to help people to contribute. There is also a lot of stuff that I need to learn.

Volunteer testers will be needed for testing devices that I do not have and really will need some help keeping the wiki at up to date.

As I mention in Zero Retries, I hope that DRATS2 can implement the “big
flip” necessary to be able to use DV Fast Data mode in the Icom D-Star
radios that include that mode.
As I understand it, and I could be very wrong, the Fast Data mode is similar to an Ethernet bridge connected to the local network that the computer is on and can be configured for tcp/ip routed over that bridge.

In that case, a d-rats repeater would treat it as any other tcp/ip connection, so existing e-rats clients could connect to a d-rats repeater that is accessible over that bridged network.

Regards,
-John
 

Hello John,

I can appreciate the need to refactor the code though abandoning Linux is a bad idea IMHO. I also totally get the frustration on the ever changing UI toolkits but maybe consider using FLTK like what Fldigi uses to support Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. on multiple architectures like x86, ARM, etc.

If nothing else, consider coding the new Windows "only" program with Wine-compatibilty in mind so Linux can still run it pretty well for x86.? Running under ARM is possible but the setup? gets complex fast.

Just my $0.02

--David
KI6ZHD




On January 10, 2025 2:54:26 AM GMT+13:00, "John E. Malmberg via groups.io" <wb8tyw@...> wrote:
>On 1/8/2025 10:49 PM, Steve Stroh via groups.io wrote:
>>?? This is a cool development, and I’m mentioning it in this week’s issue of
>> Zero Retries newsletter.
>
>Thanks.
>
>It is going to take a while as I plan to try to document it as a teaching project as I go to help people to contribute.?? There is also a lot of stuff that I need to learn.
>
>Volunteer testers will be needed for testing devices that I do not have and really will need some help keeping the wiki at ?up to date.
>
>> As I mention in Zero Retries, I hope that DRATS2 can implement the “big
>> flip” necessary to be able to use DV Fast Data mode in the Icom D-Star
>> radios that include that mode.
>
>As I understand it, and I could be very wrong, the Fast Data mode is similar to an Ethernet bridge connected to the local network that the computer is on and can be configured for tcp/ip routed over that bridge.
>
>In that case, a d-rats repeater would treat it as any other tcp/ip connection, so existing e-rats clients could connect to a d-rats repeater that is accessible over that bridged network.
>
>Regards,
>-John
>
>
>
>
 

On 1/10/2025 3:44 AM, David Ranch via groups.io wrote:

I can appreciate the need to refactor the code though abandoning
Linux is a bad idea IMHO.
I never posted anything about abandoning Linux, the 3 GUI tool kits that I am going to try are available on Linux, Windows and MacOS.

* Tkinter - built into python
* WxPython - Seems to be the most used of the choices - best supported.
* Kivy - Not seeing a lot of activity, but supports Android and IOS.

I also totally get the frustration on the
ever changing UI toolkits but maybe consider using FLTK like what
Fldigi uses to support Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. on
multiple architectures like x86, ARM, etc.
Just looked at FLTK. It is more complex to install than the options I am currently looking at because it requires first building it on the Windows platform. That makes creating an installable package on Microsoft Windows much harder.

If someone wants to do the work for FLTK support, I don't have any objections of adding it to the mix.

My first significant goal is to create hello-world type programs with each of the GUI tool kits.

The next significant goal is to create Windows and Linux installable packages of the hello-world type programs.

And while doing this, document how others can setup their own development and test environments.

Regards,
-John
 

I’ll second the request to continue to support other OSes. I hope to eventually have enough spare time to try and back port a linux version to Mac (since that’s all I have). So I am in favor of using anything that is cross platform, but has stable enough toolkit to be practical.

Since I’ve never even had time to look at the state of the current linux version, I won’t even say it’s my 2 cents, more like my 1/2 cent worth.

73,
-debbie, N9DN

On Jan 10, 2025, at 03:44, David Ranch via groups.io <dstar@...> wrote:

Hello John,

I can appreciate the need to refactor the code though abandoning Linux is a bad idea IMHO. I also totally get the frustration on the ever changing UI toolkits but maybe consider using FLTK like what Fldigi uses to support Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. on multiple architectures like x86, ARM, etc.

If nothing else, consider coding the new Windows "only" program with Wine-compatibilty in mind so Linux can still run it pretty well for x86. Running under ARM is possible but the setup gets complex fast.

Just my $0.02

--David
KI6ZHD




On January 10, 2025 2:54:26 AM GMT+13:00, "John E. Malmberg via groups.io" <wb8tyw@...> wrote:
On 1/8/2025 10:49 PM, Steve Stroh via groups.io wrote:
This is a cool development, and I’m mentioning it in this week’s issue of
Zero Retries newsletter.
Thanks.

It is going to take a while as I plan to try to document it as a teaching project as I go to help people to contribute. There is also a lot of stuff that I need to learn.

Volunteer testers will be needed for testing devices that I do not have and really will need some help keeping the wiki at up to date.

As I mention in Zero Retries, I hope that DRATS2 can implement the “big
flip” necessary to be able to use DV Fast Data mode in the Icom D-Star
radios that include that mode.
As I understand it, and I could be very wrong, the Fast Data mode is similar to an Ethernet bridge connected to the local network that the computer is on and can be configured for tcp/ip routed over that bridge.

In that case, a d-rats repeater would treat it as any other tcp/ip connection, so existing e-rats clients could connect to a d-rats repeater that is accessible over that bridged network.

Regards,
-John
 

On 1/10/2025 1:02 PM, Debbie Fligor via groups.io wrote:
I’ll second the request to continue to support other OSes. I hope
to eventually have enough spare time to try and back port a linux
version to Mac (since that’s all I have).
There are several Mac users on this list that are running the new python3 version and can help you out with details.

I have stopped creating pip installable tarballs in favor of just doing a git clone of the project, and then running it from there.

lzhuf has to be downloaded and built from the lzhuf project for Mac, as I do not have a way to build it myself and post the binaries in the files section of this forum. That is needed only if you want to use winlink.

73
-John
wb8tyw
 

First, thanks for taking this on. I think it's a great project and DStar is not going away now with yet another new radio from Kenwood supporting it. I know nothing about programming but am wondering whether one of the AI coding devices might help. I see Gemini for coding is going to be free. Have you looked at this?
 

On 2/26/2025 3:04 AM, Michael Mandell via groups.io wrote:
First, thanks for taking this on. I think it's a great project and
DStar is not going away now with yet another new radio from Kenwood
supporting it.
Actually the only thing in D-Rats that is D-Star specific is the code that translates GPS symbols from D-Star to and from APRS.

D-Rats will work over any radio that can transmit serial data.

I plan to be testing the new port with LoRa radios.



These low cost radios are also available in the 433 Mhz band.

LoRa has an unlicensed mode at low power and an Amateur licensed mode.

As part of my planned attachments, I am planning on having a way for ratflectors to be able to filter the unlicensed users to prevent accidental relays over Amateur Radio links.

I am looking at which can only use a few bytes from each packet to prevent forgeries, and allows authentication of senders over a public radio link with out anyone able to spoof them.

This could get larger usage of D-Rats than what we have now.

I know nothing about programming but am wondering
whether one of the AI coding devices might help. I see Gemini for
coding is going to be free. Have you looked at this?
No, one of the problems with AI can end up provided code that may be under copyright by others and illegal to put in an Open source project.

For my professional programming, my employers have strict policies on the use of AI for work to avoid leaking company data, or creating a copyright violation.

The AI answers that search engines are now providing are most of the time returning the same web pages that the search engines normally provide, except in two significant cases, the AI engine generated examples with significant syntax errors.

There are many web sites that provide free python self paced training.

Currently Drats2 is still at in the setup of the boilerplate stage, this boilerplate is just setting up the framework needed for organizing the project.

It is at a state where a beginning python programmer can clone the repository and learn the structure.

There is a developer_notes.txt that I cam keeping notes of what I plan and what did not work. The intent is that content from it can be put in the drats2 wiki. This is something that volunteers can assist with.

73,
-John
wb8tyw
 

Looking forward to trying it out again...73 Luis KK4ZFT?


On Thu, Feb 27, 2025, 09:33 John E. Malmberg via <wb8tyw=[email protected]> wrote:


On 2/26/2025 3:04 AM, Michael Mandell via wrote:
> First, thanks for taking this on. I think it's a great project and
> DStar is not going away now with yet another new radio from Kenwood
> supporting it.

Actually the only thing in D-Rats that is D-Star specific is the code
that translates GPS symbols from D-Star to and from APRS.

D-Rats will work over any radio that can transmit serial data.

I plan to be testing the new port with LoRa radios.



These low cost radios are also available in the 433 Mhz band.

LoRa has an unlicensed mode at low power and an Amateur licensed mode.

As part of my planned attachments, I am planning on having a way for
ratflectors to be able to filter the unlicensed users to prevent
accidental relays over Amateur Radio links.

I am looking at
which can only use a few bytes from each packet to prevent forgeries,
and allows authentication of senders over a public radio link with out
anyone able to spoof them.

This could get larger usage of D-Rats than what we have now.

> I know nothing about programming but am wondering
> whether one of the AI coding devices might help. I see Gemini for
> coding is going to be free. Have you looked at this?

No, one of the problems with AI can end up provided code that may be
under copyright by others and illegal to put in an Open source project.

For my professional programming, my employers have strict policies on
the use of AI for work to avoid leaking company data, or creating a
copyright violation.

The AI answers that search engines are now providing are most of the
time returning the same web pages that the search engines normally
provide, except in two significant cases, the AI engine generated
examples with significant syntax errors.

There are many web sites that provide free python self paced training.

Currently Drats2 is still at in the setup of the boilerplate stage, this
boilerplate is just setting up the framework needed for organizing the
project.

It is at a state where a beginning python programmer can clone the
repository and learn the structure.

There is a developer_notes.txt that I cam keeping notes of what I plan
and what did not work.? The intent is that content from it can be put in
the drats2 wiki.? ?This is something that volunteers can assist with.

73,
-John
wb8tyw

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