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Hello all,

I intend to put this in a Wiki:

The Python2 D-Rats is pretty much frozen, no more updates, and it does not have bug fixes that are in the Python3 version.

If you want to run Python3 D-Rats on Microsoft Windows, these are going to be the options:

* Use a WSL and one of the Unix subsystems. Currently I am not setup to test in this environment. If you go this route, I think Ubuntu 22.04 would be the best option, followed by Ubuntu 22.04.
Only Windows 10/11 64 bit have this option.

* Use the MSYS2 environment to install Python3 and packages, and optionally a python virtualenv.
This will be the only option for Windows 7, and if you want to run on Windows 7, you will need to download and setup MSYS2 *NOW* as they are dropping support for Windows 7 this year and may have already dropped it. Once they drop support for Windows 7, I do not know if they will keep the last version to support Windows 7 online for download.

* Use a commercial Python. Even though some are free for personal use, I will not be installing or testing on a Commercial Python. If someone wants to do that support, feel free to contribute instructions on how to use.

* Currently building a single Windows package for Simple installing is not practical. On Windows 7, I can not get the GTK 3 stuff to just build and install with the Python.org Python distribution. All articles I have found online about it so far do hot have a fix, but recommend using msys2 instead, and that is where the treads stop. I have determined that it would take too much of my time, to figure this out, and there are more fixes/updates I would like to get into D-Rats soon. If someone else can figure this out with out using a commercial Linux, feel free to contribute.

* Use a Linux based system.

Future distributions are going to require installing two packages.

For winlink support, an optional lzhuf package, currently available in the files section for group members pre-packaged for Windows 7 and later and some Ubuntu and Debian distributions. For other platforms, you will need to download the source and build it, until someone contributes a pre-built package or tarball for that platform.

The D-Rats will be packaged in the future in a generic PIP installable tarball at first. This is planned to be followed up with Ubuntu and Debian packages. It will no longer contain the lzhuf binary as it makes it too complex to package it in a way supported by Python.

Generally if you have the Python3 and GTK-3 environment setup it will install with Pip. The Ubuntu/Debian packages will not need PIP to install.

73,
-John

In my previous message, I meant not using a commercial Python for creating a single windows package containing Python, Gtk+, D-Rats, and lzhuf.

73,
-John

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 07:02 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:

In my previous message, I meant not using a commercial Python for creating a single windows package containing Python, Gtk+, D-Rats, and lzhuf.

I'm going to expose my ignorance here, but what does that mean for ordinary Windows users that don't use Python or even know what Gtk+ means, please?

Does it mean that we won't be able to use Drats if we have an older version of Windows than version 10, or just that we won't be able to instal updates?

Thanks - Dave (G0DJA)

PS - I'm using Windows 10 pro myself, but I guess that one day that will be obsolete as well.
?
--
Dave (G0DJA)
Bolsover, UK

On 10/19/2022 11:22 AM, David Ackrill wrote:

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 07:02 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:

In my previous message, I meant not using a commercial Python for creating
a single windows package containing Python, Gtk+, D-Rats, and lzhuf.

I'm going to expose my ignorance here, but what does that mean for ordinary Windows users that don't use Python or even know what Gtk+ means, please?

In order to use D-Rats, you need a python interpreter with the GTK+ library, or it does work.

GTK+ is the graphics library that is used on Linux and was available for almost all platforms. It currently is only available on Microsoft Windows pre-built as part of the Msys2 package, not as a native package.

The older D-Rats for Microsoft Windows used a bundling procedure to bundle that all together in to an easy to install executable.

Now none of those components are supported anymore, and are no longer even available on newer Linux distribution.

So we can not run the old d-rats on most of the current Linux distros.

So I did a significant re-work of D-Rats so that it would run on a current Linux distribution. It was not practical to make it compatible with the older python environment.

The current problem is that there are currently too many missing pieces to creating the single Microsoft Windows package with the newer D-Rats.

There are many sites on the internet that claim to provide components, but you really only want to install programs form trusted locations if possible.

So far I have found only three trusted ways that for free, you can get the components needed to run D-Rats on Microsoft Windows.

1. Windows Subsystem for Linux if you are running 64 bit Windows 10 new enough to support it.

2. Cygwin. This has a bit of a learning curve

3. Msys2 mingw64. This is what I am using on Windows 7.

It may be possible to build a single Windows package using Msys2 mingw64. I do not know yet if the resulting package will work, and really do not have the time to spend on it, because there are other fixes and enhancements that D-Rats needs.

There may be other options, but again, I have already spent too much time looking for them.

If someone can start doing that research and testing, that would be great.

Does it mean that we won't be able to use Drats if we have an older
version of Windows than version 10, or just that we won't be able to
instal updates?

What it means that if you do not have some type of Linux emulation with graphics on Windows 7 or Windows 8 now, you may not be able to install it later as the third party packages needed by D-Rats may be removed from the trusted distribution sites. And I do not know if it is already too late.

PS - I'm using Windows 10 pro myself, but I guess that one day that
will be obsolete as well.

I plan to run Windows 7 on my testing laptop as long as the hardware supports it. At some point I may install Linux on it.

Just be prepared to be able to do a complete re-image of the system from recovery media if it gets something nasty, and you do not keep anything that you can not afford to lose or get revealed on your systems.

What is really the difference between something nasty encrypting your files, or the hard drive just dying? Pretty much the same risk and same things needed for recovery.

73,
-John

Thanks for the explanation, John.

I don't keep anything on my shack PC that I would not want exposed or lost, other than maybe my logbook.? I'll try to remember to back that up to a USB stick, just in case. That's true of any failure of course, not just Drats.

--
Dave (G0DJA)
Bolsover, UK