|
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation in MobaXterm support.
Radio transfer dropped character fix.
|
I downloaded the D-RATS tar.gz in dropped it on my
desktop.? When I tried to run it, the traceback said that there
was no "gi".? I have GIT on this laptop.? How do you run
D-RATS???
Thanks
David, AC7DS
On 12/3/23 14:04, Group Notification
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files
area of the [email protected] group.
By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation in MobaXterm
support.
Radio transfer dropped character fix.
|
When DRATS works, out of the box on current Windows machines, I will consider installing it. It is nowhere near ready after all these years. It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form. Let me know when it is fully ready for primetime and I will be a
very happy user!
Larry Whited, AB4NX
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I downloaded the D-RATS tar.gz in dropped it on my desktop.? When I tried to run it, the traceback said that there was no "gi".? I have GIT on this laptop.? How do you run D-RATS???
Thanks
David, AC7DS
On 12/3/23 14:04, Group Notification wrote:
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the
[email protected] group.
By: John E. Malmberg
<wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation in MobaXterm support. Radio transfer dropped character fix.
|
>
?It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form
?
Can I ask what drives to this statement?
?
Thanks,
maurizio
?
When DRATS works, out of the box on current Windows machines, I will consider installing it. It is nowhere near ready after all these years. It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form. Let
me know when it is fully ready for primetime and I will be a very happy user!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David Holman via groups.io <aikidave20@...>
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2023 11:31 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [d-rats] 2 files uploaded #file-notice
I downloaded the D-RATS tar.gz in dropped it on my desktop.? When I tried to run it, the traceback said that there was no "gi".? I have GIT on this laptop.? How do you run D-RATS???
Thanks
David, AC7DS
?
On 12/3/23 14:04, Group Notification wrote:
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the
[email protected] group.
By: John E. Malmberg
<wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation in MobaXterm support. Radio transfer dropped character fix.
|
Perhaps you are not used to the reliability and dependability and rich feature set of Winlink Express and FLDIGI. The programs work
reliably, always install flawlessly and have many forms. They are very useful in an RF environment.
My experience with DRATS is that it often locks up, closes unexpectedly, or fails to send a message until it is closed and reopened and has the same very limited forms setup it has had for years.? This sort of behavior cannot be?tolerated in an emergency situation.
Also, its interaction with RF is very limited. I rather imagine that this lags way behind because of the above. Bandwidth is very limited as well.?
I offered this in response to another complaint. It has been my experience for years. I'm sorry if it i
Larry, AB4NX
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
>??It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form
?
Can I ask what drives to this statement?
?
Thanks,
maurizio
?
When DRATS works, out of the box on current Windows machines, I will consider installing it. It is nowhere near ready after all these years.
It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form. Let me know when it is fully ready for primetime and I will be a very happy user!
Larry Whited, AB4NX
I downloaded the D-RATS tar.gz in dropped it on my desktop.? When I tried to run it, the traceback said that there was no "gi".? I have GIT on this laptop.? How do you run D-RATS???
Thanks
David, AC7DS
?
On 12/3/23 14:04, Group Notification wrote:
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the
[email protected]?group.
By:?John E. Malmberg
<wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation in MobaXterm support. Radio transfer dropped character fix.
|
Let’s consider the history of D-RATS. When it was first developed (and still under development) by Dan, it was intended to be a D-STAR data tool when there wasn’t one. The development through 0.3.9 offered some very good features, but I’ll
be blunt, Dan lost interest and moved on to Chirp and other projects. At that point, it was a functional application, but all of the bugs had not been worked out.
?
To this point various groups, including Larry’s (an my) own state of Georgia along with other areas, has active D-RATS groups and it’s been used and continues to be used in emcomm applications including ARES and AUXCOMM. In Georgia, D-RATS
is considered one of three desirable data programs also including Winlink and NBEMS. Does it still have some bugs, YES, but isn’t that the reason there is an active effort by Maurizio and others to migrate it to a supported version of Python so that development
can continue.
?
One of the reasons Winlink is a reliable tool is that there is a team of developers actively working on the app and I applaud their effort. D-RATS now has that, but it will take time. As I always say, if you don’t like something, don’t
use it but don’t throw stones at those who do use it and trying to make it better.
?
Thanks to Maurizio and team for your continued effort to make D-RATS a better tool for D-STAR and others.
?
John WB4QDX
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
Larry Whited
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 8:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [d-rats] 2 files uploaded #file-notice
?
Perhaps you are not used to the reliability and dependability and rich feature set of Winlink Express and FLDIGI. The programs work reliably, always install flawlessly and have many forms. They
are very useful in an RF environment.
My experience with DRATS is that it often locks up, closes unexpectedly, or fails to send a message until it is closed and reopened and has the same very limited forms setup it has had for years.? This sort of behavior cannot be?tolerated in an emergency situation.
Also, its interaction with RF is very limited. I rather imagine that this lags way behind because of the above. Bandwidth is very limited as well.?
I offered this in response to another complaint. It has been my experience for years. I'm sorry if it i
>??It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form
?
Can I ask what drives to this statement?
?
Thanks,
maurizio
?
When DRATS works, out of the box on current Windows machines, I will consider installing it. It is nowhere near ready after all these years. It is not suitable?for emcomm in its current form. Let me know when it
is fully ready for primetime and I will be a very happy user!
Larry Whited, AB4NX
I downloaded the D-RATS tar.gz in dropped it on my desktop.? When I tried to run it, the traceback said that there was no "gi".? I have GIT on this laptop.? How do you run D-RATS???
Thanks
David, AC7DS
?
On 12/3/23 14:04, Group Notification wrote:
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the
[email protected]?group.
By:?John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation in MobaXterm support. Radio transfer dropped character fix.
|
I'd say on balance a good product that I would like to see refined to the level of the programs mentioned.? Locally, groups could implement RF connections (ratflectors) that would offer the RF component.? As a P2P tool, it is outstanding!
|
The first thing I believe I should say is that despite Larry (and I) being members of Georgia ARES and Gwinnett County ARES, we do not speak for these organizations. Our words are our own and should not be construed as speaking for them in an official manner.
Upon reading Larry's words, I believe he is badly misinformed as to the amount of blood, sweat and tears that John and Maurizio have put into D-Rats since development had been dropped years ago in version 0.3.9 by the prior developer.
I have been subscribed to the new D-Rats project on GitHub and have seen first-hand how much time and effort Maurizio and then John put into getting the code compatible with Python 3 and then accepting bug reports and analyzing the code base and carefully fixing the myriad of bugs in the code.
I applaud John and Maurizio's efforts and encourage them to continue their hard, unpaid, volunteer work and ask them to not let some ill-chosen words deflect from all the good they have done so far. Without them and their hundred if not thousands of hours of unpaid work, D-Rats would still be stuck on version 0.3.9.
Does version 0.4.2 have a turnkey Windows installer like version 0.3.9? No, but I can install it onto a current Windows system without too much effort and showing the improvements.
The next version of HamPi, HamPC and HamIQ, which includes D-Rats will have version 0.4.2 or newer available to launch off the Ham Radio Menu like any other gui application.
I should also state for the record, that within the last several months, I ran D-Rats 0.4.x and was successful with backwards compatibility with message transfers with other users running 0.3.9. it was a very good feeling seeing that I could receive their ICS-213s.
I would urge Larry and others who may have experienced bugs in the past to go to the new GitHub project and write them up as 0.3.9 bugs under the Issues page. That is one of the best ways we can help -- by providing honest feedback in our experiences and raising awareness about individual deficiencies in the proper venue.
I am copying the Georgia Section coordinator and Gwinnett County coordinator in case they wish to add their words to the conversation.
Again, these are my words alone, not of the organizations I belong to.
Thank you, John and Maurizio for all you are doing?
-Dave, W3DJS?
On Tue, Dec 5, 2023, 10:49 AM Larry Whited < lwhited1@...> wrote: I'd say on balance a good product that I would like to see refined to the level of the programs mentioned.? Locally, groups could implement RF connections (ratflectors) that would offer the RF component.? As a P2P tool, it is outstanding!
--
-- Dave,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Technical Specialist,??--
--??+?? ?Lifetime Member of?///?--
--??--
|
Putting my money where my mouth is, I switched my dual-boot laptop over to Windows 10 Pro, applied numerous Windows updates which were piled up, and even a BIOS ROM update. I went down the rabbit hole of getting D-Rats v0.4.2. running on Windows 10 Pro, and you can see from the screen capture below that I was successfully connected for about half an hour and held a QSO with KG5CEN (Glen) in Mississippi. He sends a shout-out to John Davis, btw. :-)
It's definitely not "turnkey" but about the only gotcha I ran into was an incompatibility with an existing version of Python installed under Windows vs. what MobaXterm was using. (That's easily avoidable with either removing the Windows version of Python or probably changing the order of the PATH environment variables so that MobaXterm's Python is found first.) And there is one mistake in the instructions (incorrect link which is easily fixed) which I will try to send a pull request to correct.
I should also note that the MobaXterm installation script really simplifies the process for end users.
On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 12:31?PM Dave Slotter, W3DJS via <slotter= [email protected]> wrote: The first thing I believe I should say is that despite Larry (and I) being members of Georgia ARES and Gwinnett County ARES, we do not speak for these organizations. Our words are our own and should not be construed as speaking for them in an official manner.
Upon reading Larry's words, I believe he is badly misinformed as to the amount of blood, sweat and tears that John and Maurizio have put into D-Rats since development had been dropped years ago in version 0.3.9 by the prior developer.
I have been subscribed to the new D-Rats project on GitHub and have seen first-hand how much time and effort Maurizio and then John put into getting the code compatible with Python 3 and then accepting bug reports and analyzing the code base and carefully fixing the myriad of bugs in the code.
I applaud John and Maurizio's efforts and encourage them to continue their hard, unpaid, volunteer work and ask them to not let some ill-chosen words deflect from all the good they have done so far. Without them and their hundred if not thousands of hours of unpaid work, D-Rats would still be stuck on version 0.3.9.
Does version 0.4.2 have a turnkey Windows installer like version 0.3.9? No, but I can install it onto a current Windows system without too much effort and showing the improvements.
The next version of HamPi, HamPC and HamIQ, which includes D-Rats will have version 0.4.2 or newer available to launch off the Ham Radio Menu like any other gui application.
I should also state for the record, that within the last several months, I ran D-Rats 0.4.x and was successful with backwards compatibility with message transfers with other users running 0.3.9. it was a very good feeling seeing that I could receive their ICS-213s.
I would urge Larry and others who may have experienced bugs in the past to go to the new GitHub project and write them up as 0.3.9 bugs under the Issues page. That is one of the best ways we can help -- by providing honest feedback in our experiences and raising awareness about individual deficiencies in the proper venue.
I am copying the Georgia Section coordinator and Gwinnett County coordinator in case they wish to add their words to the conversation.
Again, these are my words alone, not of the organizations I belong to.
Thank you, John and Maurizio for all you are doing?
-Dave, W3DJS?
On Tue, Dec 5, 2023, 10:49 AM Larry Whited < lwhited1@...> wrote: I'd say on balance a good product that I would like to see refined to the level of the programs mentioned.? Locally, groups could implement RF connections (ratflectors) that would offer the RF component.? As a P2P tool, it is outstanding!
--
-- Dave,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Technical Specialist,??--
--??+?? ?Lifetime Member of?///?--
--??--
--
-- Dave,?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Technical Specialist,??--
--??+?? ?Lifetime Member of?///?--
--??--
|
Dave, Thanks for all you and Maurizio Andreotti do.?
I'm sure I don't have enough understanding of software development to measure the difficulty of writing for a live environment like DRATS.? Any volunteer efforts are greatly appreciated. My thoughts are opinions only. I will look forward to improvements as they occur. Apologies for my insensitivity!
Larry, AB4NX
|
Maurizio,
I really appreciate the time you guys are spending
on D-RATS for the ham community.? And I understand the issues
you are running into.??
I develop software.? I would love to help with
this project, but spare time for me doesn't exist at the
moment.? So I am only a user.? To answer your question about
what drives that statement, I downloaded D-RATS latest released
version onto both my Linux and Windows machine.? I can't get it
to run on either by simply downloading and installing it...? I
did make sure that my Python was the latest version of Python.?
I don't have time to fool around with to get it working on my
machines.? Which means that it is not ready for the average
monkey (average user, non-code developer) to use for emergency
communications.?
In order for it to be ready, out of the box, the
user has to be able to download, install and use.? The average
monkey is not going to spend much of any time trying to get it
working.? It is not there yet.? That is what drives that
statement.?
Thanks
David, AC7DS
On 12/5/23 03:18, Maurizio Andreotti
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
>
?It is not
suitable?for emcomm in its current form
?
Can I ask what drives to this statement?
?
Thanks,
maurizio
?
When DRATS works,
out of the box on current Windows machines, I will
consider installing it. It is nowhere near ready after
all these years. It is not suitable?for emcomm in its
current form. Let me know when it is fully ready for
primetime and I will be a very happy user!
I downloaded the D-RATS
tar.gz in dropped it on my desktop.? When I tried to
run it, the traceback said that there was no "gi".? I
have GIT on this laptop.? How do you run D-RATS???
Thanks
David, AC7DS
?
On
12/3/23 14:04, Group Notification wrote:
The following files
and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of
the
[email protected]
group.
By: John E. Malmberg
<wb8tyw@...>
Description:
Many file transfer / messaging fixes. Installation
in MobaXterm support. Radio transfer dropped
character fix.
|
Hello all,
This started as a reply to an automatically generated file upload notification, which is not suitable for a detailed e-mail.
The file uploaded is a pip installable python package which easily installs on all platforms except the free official prebuilt python for Microsoft Windows as the needed libraries are not available, and it does not look like that will be fixed anytime soon.
The followup e-mail titled "New 0.4.2 release with MobaXterm on Windows support" had the wiki links for doing the install on Microsoft Windows.
.
Currently Linux users may need to figure things out as the best way for them to install until someone finds time to add WIKI pages for them.
Anyone that is a member of the project can update the WIKI to help the community. And becoming a member is simply sending an e-mail to Maurizio or myself with the GitHub username to add.
As mostly stated in previous e-mails here:
The lzhuf program needed for winlink is now separate as we are not supposed to have executable files in pip installable files or in a GitHub repository.
lzhuf is now installable as a click to install Microsoft package, and for some Ubuntu and Anti-X distributions. All others must download the source and locally build it at this time.
All the tools for simply making a Python based program such as D-Rats as a single installable image on Microsoft platforms have been deprecated or I can not get them to work for various reasons.
There are currently only three known free for use python environments on Microsoft Windows for running D-Rats.
MobaXterm allows installing one free commercial program, and then downloading and running one script to install D-Rats and all the components that it requires for the most used functions. Some optional features are not available.
Cygwin which has a hard to use GUI installer by default.
I have found a script that could possibly be setup for an install of Cygwin via powershell script. I have not had time to test it.
Msys2 which has a relatively easy initial install, but the update process requires you to restart the msys2 environment multiple times while it is running, and is currently limited Windows 10 or later.
Msys2 is probably the best free python to use for running D-Rats.
There are some other commercial python environments that are only free if you do not do any professional programming on the system you are installed on. I will not be installing or testing on those.
If someone else wants to provide installation instructions for those commercial pythons to the Wiki, that would be good.
73,
-John
|
Let me preface by saying that I am not a software developer.
Wouldn't it be easier to just start over from scratch than to keep porting and putting Band-Aids on what was arguably still a buggy program?? I've been using D-Rats since it was still in development but gave up on it years ago.? I'm going through the process of installing the latest version now to see how much has changed/been improved.? ?Still, wouldn't it just be easier to write a new program with D-Rats-like features?
73,
Brad KA3YAN
|
Hi Brad.
Maybe yes. Hard to say, but I am not a programmer so cannot tell for sure. I think there where already several attempts, there are some GitHub projects which can be found looking for "drats rewrite" on Google.?
In the past (Dan had already stopped supporting drats) I had spent effort on drats as having some dstar radios I was willing to keep alive the position tracking of handheld users (id51 etc).?
The drats has some sort of a user base? established, users which? know it with all it's limits and features
Wanting to keep this user base, it would mean to implement something which is at least compatible /able to "talk" with current drats versions. To ensure this dialogue compatibility, it should be redesigned the chat, the GPS and map, the file transfer, the email system, the config, the interface, as well as some decision on the operating systems to be supported.
To do this it is mandatory to have full specs of how drats uses dstar radios and IP. As per my understanding these specs are the source code of the application itself.? And apart from John I am not seeing anybody looking into it and understanding or trying to understand. I tried in the past and ended up happy to keep it alive like at my best.
Without the wish/need of the retrocompatibility? it would mean to design and implement something which Is new ...? Anybody is off course free to do it.
In this case maybe it woukd be worth to consider the scenario of Digital radios of today like dmr or other digital radios...??
But iss there really a demand for a sw like drats which ideally was aiming to be a comprehensive tool to support emergencies although on a single kind of digital radios?
If yes, who Is going to take effort in this? Clearly the radio vendors are nòt interested in this and for what i sée the? ham radio community is not as well.
As someone already replied there is already winlink2000, so maybe no real need for another one
Anyhow happy 2024 to everybody!
Il mer 3 gen 2024, 20:01 Brad Morris < bradm75@...> ha scritto: Let me preface by saying that I am not a software developer.
Wouldn't it be easier to just start over from scratch than to keep porting and putting Band-Aids on what was arguably still a buggy program?? I've been using D-Rats since it was still in development but gave up on it years ago.? I'm going through the process of installing the latest version now to see how much has changed/been improved.? ?Still, wouldn't it just be easier to write a new program with D-Rats-like features?
73,
Brad KA3YAN
|
From what I know, DStar is the only digital radio format that allows this kind of use of serial data. DMR can do very limited messaging, Fusion blocks the serial data except for programming and TNC, DStar allows full use of the serial data portion of the digital signal.?
Frankly, we practice D-Rats every week and have limited issues with version 0.3.9 on modern Windows computers (I use on 7, 10, 11). Yes, it throws error messages now and then (which can usually be dismissed). Sometimes it crashes. Sometimes, if you have been fooling around with things it won't send a message until you restart the program? (which takes seconds). To compare this to WinLink is a poor comparison. WinLink VHF RMS nodes are too rare in most parts of the US to be considered a viable emcomm mode. WinLink on HF is an emcomm disaster---it chokes instantly even in a drill. Can't handle much throughput and despite what you read, it is very dependent on internet connectivity. Try the hybrid mode sometime. Report back how that went for you. If you can't hit AWS, you are SOL with WinLink---sorry, been using it for years and know that when ARC allows Telnet for their big drills, they are aware of the throughput limitation. NBEMS is great. I'm with John Davis---we do all three up here in PA (D-Rats, WinLink (VHF--we now have a node) and NBEMS on VHF and HF. Of the three, DStar and DRats is the most complete and also the easiest to use in the field, requiring the least equipment. It is my experience that getting a software TNC running for NBEMS in the field and getting your FM radio to key on FLDigi can take WAY more time than a quick D-Rats restart. WinLink on VHF if you are in an area with VHF nodes is a solid system. THey also have a big war chest and a ton of support. Look at their 990 sometime. I have.?
|
Perhaps it would?behoove Icom to do that task as it would extend their digital mode usage.? As long as the original D-Rats tasks were intact, more could be added to keep sales of D-Star alive for a lot longer.? Just a thought -?
--
|
Dave Slotter, W3DJS
Brad Morris