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6 KHz is OK for voice on HF but not data. Check Part 97 FCC. Also there is that 300 baud limit at the moment. So no to DStar data on HF.?

Not according to Dan Smith, the guy who wrote it. I have been looking at anything I can find on Drats for years now. Dan's comments go back a long time... Before he stopped working in Drats.?

Apparently not per the spec. Drats uses its own protocol.?

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On 2/22/2023 5:20 AM, Michael Mandell wrote:
<snip>

No idea why some can't get Python2? to run

While you can still run python2 D-Rats on Windows, We can not run python2 based D-rats on current versions of Anti-X Linux, or the last two versions of Ubuntu LTS, or the current version of Raspbian for the Raspberry PIs. I suspect the same for Fedora, Rocky/Alma 8 or later, or OpenSUSE Leap 15. This also may be the case of current Mac OS.

Python2 is EOL and no longer being maintained.
GTK2 is EOL and no longer being maintained.

No bug fixes, including security fixes are being made to Python2, Python2 libraries, GTK2.

While it is possible to build a python 3 program that is backwards compatible with Python2, it really is just not practical for a GTK 3 based program. They just changed too much in the library calls.

73,
-John
wb8ytw

On 2/22/2023 6:09 AM, Michael Mandell wrote:

John:
Take another look at the D-Star spec document you reference. I think
you are confusing slow-speed (or fast mode) conncurrent voice/data
D-Star with DD mode.

Yes, I discovered that yesterday that the slow speed digital data mode
is interleaved with the digital voice and has no correction.

One of my projects that I am working on is connecting a MMDVM GMSK modem to a IC-807H so that I can look at the entire D-Star packet and hopefully use that GMSK modem with D-Rats. This would allow d-rats to use radios with the 9600 baud TNC port.

What I find odd is what it states about XON / XOFF. It says not to use the device driver XON/XOFF setting, but to do it in software like D-Rats does.

The main problem with the XON/XOFF protocol is documented the document is that a corrupted data packet could send an XOFF code to the D-Rats program causing it to stop sending data to the radio.

The use of software XOFF instead of driver XOFF, is not going to change that problem. Using software XON/XOFF instead of driver XOFF, will result in the XOFF processing being slower, with a higher chance of the radio dropping characters.

I do not recall seeing any code in D-Rats for recovering from a spurious XOFF showing up from the radio serial port. I have not seen this happen, but as near as I can tell it will stop communications on that radio port. This is something that we should probably be looking at tin the code.

I plan to have a future version of D-rats offer the option to use the driver XOFF, and also test if the connected device supports the DSR and CTS signals. I have not checked if packet modem firmware support the RTS/CTS signals.

73,
-John

On 2/22/2023 5:10 AM, Michael Mandell wrote:

This is encouraging, even if it takes awhile. We have a few
knowledgeable people trying to keep D-Rats going, you being one.

Unfortunately I got a chance to try to figure out what FreeCAD is doing, and I could not. FreeCAD is using lots of CMAKE macros and programs for the build and it will probably take me over a year to learn how to do it. I can't find simple instructions on the wild wild web that just work.

I have too many other things on my todo list, so I will not be spending more time creating the Windows executable image.

Hopefully someone else can pick that up.

<snip>

I run Windows 10 and 11 and and have no problems installing or using
the latest update of the Python 2 D-Rats. I have zero problems using
it simplex---in fact, it's great that way.

The latest update to Python 2 D-Rats is 0.3.10b6. It is only available as source, not as a windows executable. I do not have the ability to create the Windows executable for a Python 2 program, and to not plan to spend any time on that.

Most of the current Linux distributions do not provide all the libraries needed to run the python 2 version of D-Rats.

73,
-John

It did! Was used on VHF/UHF there long before being used on HF.

Yes, and I don't believe data on DStar is allowed on HF. Way too wide. Voice is allowed, which is the only DStar I've ever seen on HF.?

Well, 3. DD is that rare mode that's still around and has apparently confused some in documentation. The ID 1 and 9700 can use that, but it has nothing to do with D-Rats.?

John:

?Take another look at the D-Star spec document you reference. I think you are confusing slow-speed (or fast mode) conncurrent voice/data D-Star with DD mode. DD mode is an entirely different aniimal and does not work with D-Rats. Thats the ID 1 1;2Ghz and now also the 9700 1.2Ghz mode. It's compatible with Ethernet. Again, totally different. DV data is a continuous data stream. No correction, no packets.?

John,?
Thanks for that reference. Very interesting and useful. However, it says that the slow speed data frame has no error correction at all, as a previous comment stated. I was also told this by Icom (called them) when I had problems with a USB connection to my 7100 breaking up D-Rats "chat" into several transmissions instead of just one longer one on the RT Systems cable. I was told that computer USB breaks up serial data into packets, while true DV Data is one continuous stream....exactly what that document says in paragraph 6.?

I also have (and use with D-Rats) an 880H. I'm sure you know the settings and menu stuff is nowhere near as easy as the 5100.?
ID-800H 9600 DVT = DVTAT, SPD = SPD96? ? ?....this from D-Star info. On mine, I don't have external GPS so that is always off and a non-issue. I have had one Orange cable just fail on me---became flaky. Can you try another? I've bought a few of those. Seemed strange because the cablle that got weird is in the shack and reallly never moved at all.?

I don't notice a difference in RF performance in any of my radios (using the same coax and antenna), really. I'm not Rob Sherwood, though.?

Hopefully others can help here with ideas. We know it can work.?

Well, I run it on a Win 10 laptop and a Win 11 desktop. I'm running the 3.9 Python 2 version. I used the Windows installer, which puts on Python 2 (I think). It runs on both machines reasonably well (occasional crash, quickly restarted to fix). Can't tell you about a 2820 but I use the other radios, plus a 7100 and 4100. It works via bluetooth perfectly on both the 5100 and 4100.?
We have issues here using a repeater sometimes, peer to peer. Not sure why. We suspect maybe a timing issue. Simplex is perfect. Simplex relay is perfect.?
Bottom line....it can work. It does here. We'll use it again tonight for our weekly practice. The repeater is a real icom stack but is not using icom software. It's? part of a multi-mode thing (coverts basically every digital mode so they can talk). PennLinkGroup owns and runs it. We do have straight icom repeaters to try also but generally play with the PennLinkGroup repeater due to RF access and the owner is part of our group so we're good to play with it.?

No idea why some can't get Python2? to run....runs fine on this machine, which is a year-old Windows 11 Home machine. I suspect maybe there are vestiges of other library files from attempts at Python 3 on your machines. Just a guess from many years of using Windows. Some stuff just hangs around. Maybe try some kind of? cleaner software to purge .dll and other files that may affect this.?

This is encouraging, even if it takes awhile. We have a few knowledgeable people trying to keep D-Rats going, you being one. Thanks.
D-Rats has great value to emcomm as it is the most complete package I know of. We have issues...with the current (Python2) build crashing now and then (although a fast restart is an easy temp fix), some issues using it over a repeater with certain settings (some combo of D-Rats settings and repeater settings seems to really hurt error-corrected transfers).?
I run Windows 10 and 11 and and have no problems installing or using the latest update of the Python 2 D-Rats. I have zero problems using it simplex---in fact, it's great that way.?
I run it on 4 different D-Star radios; an 880H, a 5100 (mainly on bluetooth), a 7100 (on the RT Systems cable and USB---although USB has "issues"), and a 4100 via bluetooth. Absolutely no issues on any of them.?
Those that have given up....here's proof it can work. If willing to figure out what is set wrong, maybe you, too can get it going.?

Two of us installed the?version 0.3.10b6.dev287 yesterday, I noted no significant change in operation from any of the previous installs. I am one of the successful Tx/RX stations here (knock on wood). The other station encountered an issue with his 880 not decoding when his 5100 would, same peripheral hardware just a radio change. We ran the connectivity test and found the 880 produced a flat "0" returns, while the 5100 resulted in a 66%,. That may indicate that the 880 does not receive as well in that location, so I may be incorrect somewhat in my previous statement. My statement about Win 7/10 was merely to say that D-RATS was operating fine on them, then just suddenly stopped decoding, As originally stated there is reception/decode from some stations but not all, indicating, but once again we are using a repeater so signals should be the same at all locations. We are going to run a S-RATS net this weekend we will have results fro that to share.

--
AL M
KF5SMH

On 2/20/2023 1:46 PM, Donald Hinsman wrote:

John,
I have found a problem, my doing. D-Rats is installed in a One
Drive\Documents\D-Rats-0.3.9_WindowsXP\D-Rats-0.3.9 folder.

It appears that you are not running D-Rats 0.3.10b6.dev287.

You appear to be running the older python2 based d-rats, which will not work with python3 very well.

The way it should work is below, but I am warning you now, I have not gotten it to work.

Download the current D-Rats /g/d-rats/files/D-Rats/D-RATS%20pre-release/D-Rats-0.3.10b6.dev287.tar.gz

1. Install Python from the Microsoft store.

2. Go into a Windows command window that is set to your Windows home directory.

3. create a virtual environment, you may need to give a path for the installed python3

python -m venv ~/drats_venv --system-site-packages

4. Activate the virtual environment, not sure how to do that with the Microsoft Store Python3 as they do not have a source command. You should be able to find that on the wild wild web.

5. The pip command may need a path as with the Microsoft Store Python to do the install

pip install %USERPROFILE\downloads\D-Rats-0.3.10b6.dev287.tar.gz

At this point on Microsoft Windows systems the install fails as it tries to build gtk3 on your system if it is not present. This will require additional packages like Visual Studio to be installed, and even if you install Visual Studio Code, the compile of GTK 3 will fail because it is not compatible with Visual Studio Code.

And that is where everyone says using Msys2 is the only way to get things working.

73,
-John

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