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Hi All!

D-Rats newbie here. I have managed to get D-Rats to send messages to my Winlink Express email address. The Debug Log and the Event Log both show that it is successfully sent, but I never receive them via a Telnet connection in Winlink. Internet email to my Gmail address works fine. Is there something I need to whitelist in Winlink? I do have the Gmail address I use with D-Rats whitelisted in Winlink.

When sending WL2K mail from D-Rats...

• WL2K Network Server = server.winlink.org
• Port = 8772
• Password = my Winlink account password
• My Winlink SSID = have tried various
• In Email, Source Call Sign = my Call Sign
• Destination Call Sign = WL2K:KC3KFW@...
• Subject = //WL2k Test
• Body = D-Rats Test

Thanks in advance!

Carl
KC3KFW

Further info.... Chat from phone app to DRats is visible when RAW Text is checked. Today I exchanged email with Ray Novak at Icom and it looks as though he is going to request an update to RSMS1 app to have its own raw text mode so some form of uncorrected text can exchange with Drats allowing mobile phone only users to communicate via Text with PC running Drats. We shall see what happens. You have to respect Icom for listening to our community.?

Thanks for the explanation, John.

I don't keep anything on my shack PC that I would not want exposed or lost, other than maybe my logbook.? I'll try to remember to back that up to a USB stick, just in case. That's true of any failure of course, not just Drats.

--
Dave (G0DJA)
Bolsover, UK

On 10/19/2022 11:22 AM, David Ackrill wrote:

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 07:02 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:

In my previous message, I meant not using a commercial Python for creating
a single windows package containing Python, Gtk+, D-Rats, and lzhuf.

I'm going to expose my ignorance here, but what does that mean for ordinary Windows users that don't use Python or even know what Gtk+ means, please?

In order to use D-Rats, you need a python interpreter with the GTK+ library, or it does work.

GTK+ is the graphics library that is used on Linux and was available for almost all platforms. It currently is only available on Microsoft Windows pre-built as part of the Msys2 package, not as a native package.

The older D-Rats for Microsoft Windows used a bundling procedure to bundle that all together in to an easy to install executable.

Now none of those components are supported anymore, and are no longer even available on newer Linux distribution.

So we can not run the old d-rats on most of the current Linux distros.

So I did a significant re-work of D-Rats so that it would run on a current Linux distribution. It was not practical to make it compatible with the older python environment.

The current problem is that there are currently too many missing pieces to creating the single Microsoft Windows package with the newer D-Rats.

There are many sites on the internet that claim to provide components, but you really only want to install programs form trusted locations if possible.

So far I have found only three trusted ways that for free, you can get the components needed to run D-Rats on Microsoft Windows.

1. Windows Subsystem for Linux if you are running 64 bit Windows 10 new enough to support it.

2. Cygwin. This has a bit of a learning curve

3. Msys2 mingw64. This is what I am using on Windows 7.

It may be possible to build a single Windows package using Msys2 mingw64. I do not know yet if the resulting package will work, and really do not have the time to spend on it, because there are other fixes and enhancements that D-Rats needs.

There may be other options, but again, I have already spent too much time looking for them.

If someone can start doing that research and testing, that would be great.

Does it mean that we won't be able to use Drats if we have an older
version of Windows than version 10, or just that we won't be able to
instal updates?

What it means that if you do not have some type of Linux emulation with graphics on Windows 7 or Windows 8 now, you may not be able to install it later as the third party packages needed by D-Rats may be removed from the trusted distribution sites. And I do not know if it is already too late.

PS - I'm using Windows 10 pro myself, but I guess that one day that
will be obsolete as well.

I plan to run Windows 7 on my testing laptop as long as the hardware supports it. At some point I may install Linux on it.

Just be prepared to be able to do a complete re-image of the system from recovery media if it gets something nasty, and you do not keep anything that you can not afford to lose or get revealed on your systems.

What is really the difference between something nasty encrypting your files, or the hard drive just dying? Pretty much the same risk and same things needed for recovery.

73,
-John

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 07:02 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:

In my previous message, I meant not using a commercial Python for creating a single windows package containing Python, Gtk+, D-Rats, and lzhuf.

I'm going to expose my ignorance here, but what does that mean for ordinary Windows users that don't use Python or even know what Gtk+ means, please?

Does it mean that we won't be able to use Drats if we have an older version of Windows than version 10, or just that we won't be able to instal updates?

Thanks - Dave (G0DJA)

PS - I'm using Windows 10 pro myself, but I guess that one day that will be obsolete as well.
?
--
Dave (G0DJA)
Bolsover, UK

In my previous message, I meant not using a commercial Python for creating a single windows package containing Python, Gtk+, D-Rats, and lzhuf.

73,
-John

Hello all,

I intend to put this in a Wiki:

The Python2 D-Rats is pretty much frozen, no more updates, and it does not have bug fixes that are in the Python3 version.

If you want to run Python3 D-Rats on Microsoft Windows, these are going to be the options:

* Use a WSL and one of the Unix subsystems. Currently I am not setup to test in this environment. If you go this route, I think Ubuntu 22.04 would be the best option, followed by Ubuntu 22.04.
Only Windows 10/11 64 bit have this option.

* Use the MSYS2 environment to install Python3 and packages, and optionally a python virtualenv.
This will be the only option for Windows 7, and if you want to run on Windows 7, you will need to download and setup MSYS2 *NOW* as they are dropping support for Windows 7 this year and may have already dropped it. Once they drop support for Windows 7, I do not know if they will keep the last version to support Windows 7 online for download.

* Use a commercial Python. Even though some are free for personal use, I will not be installing or testing on a Commercial Python. If someone wants to do that support, feel free to contribute instructions on how to use.

* Currently building a single Windows package for Simple installing is not practical. On Windows 7, I can not get the GTK 3 stuff to just build and install with the Python.org Python distribution. All articles I have found online about it so far do hot have a fix, but recommend using msys2 instead, and that is where the treads stop. I have determined that it would take too much of my time, to figure this out, and there are more fixes/updates I would like to get into D-Rats soon. If someone else can figure this out with out using a commercial Linux, feel free to contribute.

* Use a Linux based system.

Future distributions are going to require installing two packages.

For winlink support, an optional lzhuf package, currently available in the files section for group members pre-packaged for Windows 7 and later and some Ubuntu and Debian distributions. For other platforms, you will need to download the source and build it, until someone contributes a pre-built package or tarball for that platform.

The D-Rats will be packaged in the future in a generic PIP installable tarball at first. This is planned to be followed up with Ubuntu and Debian packages. It will no longer contain the lzhuf binary as it makes it too complex to package it in a way supported by Python.

Generally if you have the Python3 and GTK-3 environment setup it will install with Pip. The Ubuntu/Debian packages will not need PIP to install.

73,
-John

I started out using the orange cable from RT Systems, but that cable went bad on me.? I ended up ordering data cables directly from Icom which has worked well.? I am not familiar with the older ID-2820 radio, but there seems to be several different types listed on a Google Search.? The ones I use are the Icom OPC-2350LU data cable for the ID-4100 and the OPC-2218LU data cable for the ID-5100.? Both are USB to the D-Star radio's plug-in data port.? Some of the older radios used serial connectors to connect to the radio, but if the 2820 can be programmed with the Orange RT systems cable, that should theoretically work for D-Rats.

The use of D-Rats in a high-noise atmosphere is an ideal use for this mode.? As far as ratflectors, the original RAT had been set up by Dan Smith who originally wrote the D-Rats software.? He moved on and stopped supporting the software and eventually shut down his ratflector.?? One station asked to be considered as a replacement for RAT and that is KB8PMY.net set up as a network connection on port 9000.? Looking today, he is offline.? At a guess, his computer either caught a software update or there was an issue with his IP address changing from his Internet provider.?

Right now, there probably is not one ratflector that could be considered as super reliable.? I operate StTammany.ratflector.com using a Raspberry Pi 3.? I sometimes run into problems myself with Internet or local router issues.? I recently had to move in with my sister.? I retired on disability and she is a widow now with the two of us both on Social Security.? I'm 67 and she just turned 65.? We live in the rural community of Pearl River, Louisiana, and have periodic power outages and weather issues beyond just the occasional hurricanes.? St. Tammany Parish is across Lake Pontchartrain from New Orleans.? During an emergency, a ratflector is only useful so long as you have Internet access.? It can be used for practice with other guys who are just linking to the ratflector instead of going RF, or during an emergency, it can act as a bridge between stations in the field and Internet-connected stations if a radio is connected to the ratflector computer.

There are a number of ratflectors that are trying to maintain relevance for their local areas and one or two that had regional objectives when they were started.? SEWX.ratflector.com was set up for use with the Southeast D-Star Weather Net.? The net ceased operations a while back because they felt that not enough people were stepping up to volunteer to be net controls.? Because many feel that the Internet cannot be relied upon during severe storms, since power, phone and Internet services very often go down during those events, they would not even activate a net during incoming hurricanes.

Since D-Star/D-rats can operate either through the Internet, an available repeater or reflector, or simplex station-to-station with no other infrastructure, it can be used in many situations.? It just depends on what resources you still have available as to how far your reach can extend.? Any D-rats operator who has Internet available to him can bring up a ratflector since the "reflector" software is included in the package.? To allow others to connect to it, the operator would have to publish his IP address and make sure that the router or mode he is using has been configured to allow traffic through ports 9000 and 9500.? Our area is rather flat and we have been successful in running simplex connections from station-to-station over a distance of about 10 miles.? You might get more or less depending on the type of stations and the antenna heights involved.? Remember though that you can relay messages through a station you can reach if he can also contact the guy you are targeting but cannot reach.? Any station, including a ratflector that is also running the client software on the same computer, can act as a relay.

When you ask D-Rats to print a message, it will open your default browser to display it.? From there you have the browser software send it to the printer.? If no printers are immediately available, you could direct it to print the message to a PDF file for later retrieval.? A printer might be available at an EOC or a mobile command post, but would probably not be available to some field stations.

Right now, nationally, there just does not seem to be too many ratflectors worth monitoring on a full-time basis as lately there is not much activity.? Since I try to keep an eye on mine, I have seen stations from Spain, Portugal, Italy, and the U.S. periodically linking.? WX4QZ, Daryl, a ham from Little Rock, AR who calls several nets uses it on his net nights as an alternate way for some stations to check into the nets.? Other than that, you don't see much chatter unless one of them is hosting a net.? SEWX is located in Georgia near Atlanta where there is a pretty large group of D-Star users.? I am down in Louisiana.? They have one up in PA and one or two in Texas, Florida and Alabama.? I don't know how accurate the lists are but there are D-Rats ratflectors listed on dstarinfo.com and in the Database section of the 开云体育 drats group here.? As far as I can see, there is no one running a ratflector in California at present.? You might consider setting up your own ratflector for the state or local area.? The easiest would be to find a Raspberry Pi that no one is using and set that up.? You would need a location with either wifi or an ethernet connection to get the Pi on the Internet.? Instructions on installing one can be found in the files section here or I have several instruction sets in my ratflector's Shared Files folder that can be downloaded.? Hint, it's much faster to pick them up from the Group.?

Cordially,

Glen Strecker - KG5CEN
ARES Asst. Emergency Coordinator for St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /D-Rats/debian/bullseye/lzhuf_2022.10.08-1_amd64.deb
• /D-Rats/debian/bullseye/lzhuf_md5sum.txt

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

---

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /D-Rats/debian/buster/lzhuf_2022.10.08-1_amd64.deb
• /D-Rats/debian/buster/lzhuf_md5sum.txt

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

---

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /D-Rats/Ubuntu/bionic/lzhuf_2022.10.08-1_amd64.deb
• /D-Rats/Ubuntu/bionic/lzhuf_md5sum.txt

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

---

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /D-Rats/Ubuntu/focal/lzhuf_2022.10.08-1_amd64.deb
• /D-Rats/Ubuntu/focal/lzhuf_md5sum.txt

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

Description:
lzhuf for Ubuntu 20.04 (focal)

---

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /D-Rats/Ubuntu/jammy/lzhuf_2022.10.08-1_amd64.deb
• /D-Rats/Ubuntu/jammy/lzhuf_md5sum.txt

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

Description:
lzhuf for Ubuntu Jammy (22.04)

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /D-Rats/windows/lzhuf_md5.txt
• /D-Rats/windows/lzhuf_x64.msi
• /D-Rats/windows/lzhuf_x86.msi

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

Hello All,

I am starting to upload pre-built packages for lzhuf which is used by D-Rats to communicate with Windows.

In the future the lzhuf source and binaries will not be in the d-rats repository, so for running d-rats from a cloned repository.

Both 32 bit and 64 bit are provided, but I am not sure that 32 bit python will be available or Microsoft Windows.

The *md5*.txt is a checksum to verify a download.

These packages were built on Windows 7, so should work on that and anything later.

If you can, please test installing them. They install in to the "Program Files" or "Program Files (x86)" directory, and you have to use that path to test running them.

See:

I am still learning how the d-rats.io file upload system works, so
the below is no longer working, and I will have new uploads in a minute with better URLS.

73,
-John

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /lzhuf/Windows/windows/lzhuf_md5.txt
• /lzhuf/Windows/windows/lzhuf_x64.msi
• /lzhuf/Windows/windows/lzhuf_x86.msi

By: John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@...>

On 10/5/2022 1:43 PM, James Holtzman via groups.io wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
Our existing homebrew cables have a 2.5mm stereo phone plug on one
end (RS-232), a nine pin DB9 connector, going to a DB9 RS-232 to a
USB connector. The cable has had a history of bad intermittent
connections which drove us nuts.

Most likely the intermittent connections are mechanical. Are the 9 pin ports secured with screws and nuts, or are you relying on just the friction of the connector?

It could be that you have a bad wire in the cable, or your cable is picking up RF from the transmitter.

This is probably not affecting your issue, but something to be aware of if you are rolling your own cable using serial port connectors.

A common wiring error (And is present on the serial cable that came with my hand-held) for serial ports, is that if the DTR/DSR and RTS/CTS connections are not supplied by the source they should be always connected. On a 9-pin connection, that is pin 4 and 6 connected and pins 7 and 8 connected.

The 4 and 6 connected allows the computer to detect if the serial port has gone offline, and the newer version of D-Rats will log when it detects this. Future versions of D-Rats will test for for a properly wired serial connection in the configure radio section to allow it
to report.

I or someone really need to do some more detail than this and put in into a WIKI.

I have found issues with some USB to serial adapters, but only when the D-Rats application is not running. Some adapters will randomly key the radio when D-Rats is not running. I have not seen that behavior on adapters based on the FTDI chip, and those are a bit more expensive than others.

We could buy new cables from RT Systems, believe they are about $25
each, but what other sources do you recommend?

If that handles the stereo phone jack to USB, it may be hard to build your own much cheaper unless you have a well stocked junk box.

Find out what USB chip set is used in these pre-made cables.

What we need is one with a 2.5mm stereo phone plug on one end and a
USB connector on the other end.

I have not measured the output of the 2.5mm stereo output to see if I can vampire out the generating a DTR signal when it is plugged into the radio based on the RS-232 signaling levels. The RS-232 standard is quite liberal in what a receiving line will accept, and some implementations take shortcuts that mostly work.

You also may need RF protection. Your cable may be a great antenna.

Ideally you would have a circuit that would use diodes or transistors and a capacitor that would allow simulating a DTR signal based on if the data out line had a proper RS232 voltage. (I need to look up details on this for a design). The CTS line should also track the DTR line.

Again, D-RATS does not take advantage of these signals now, but I plan to have it do so in the future as an option, and it will allow having a displayable status of the radio connection.

Your USB side is best (by reputation) with a genuine FTDI chip do the conversion. These are pricier than other brands.

The USB chips / modules take TTL level, not RS-232 levels. There are quick and dirty methods to convert TTL and RS-232. They may not work reliably as they are depending on the side expecting RS-232 not enforcing the specification 100%, and adding RF into the mix may hurt that even more.

Usually a chip set is used to do the conversion now. And the chips are very cheap.

For a home made design, in addition to the DTR simulation, there should be a circuit that shuts off sending any data to the Radio when there is no DSR signal from the USB to serial chip. That lack of a signal is supposed to mean that there is no program running on the computer to send or receive data.

The python 3 version of d-rats tries to makes sure that the DSR signal on the cable is properly set. Some of that depends on how compliant the serial driver on your computer is with the actual signaling "standards".

Last question, I know this has been asked before, what is a good
ratflector to monitor over the internet, we know the default one no
longer exists. I have looked at the database and don't have time to
go fishing.

I am showing k3pdr and kb8pmy as the two possible replacements for rat.

Ideally there would be a yaml or equivalent machine and human readable file in an online git repository that d-rats when connected to the internet could pull down lists for you to select from.
There is a ticket open on ham-radio-software/d-rats for that.

One more thing, forgot to ask, getting too old -
What is the best way to print messages in D-RATS? I've been copying
and pasting into a plain text document, doing the editing if
necessary, then sending to the printer. Is there another way to
print? >
You would think there would be under FILE>PRINT. I can also copy
and paste from the log file of course.

Closest is "View->Log" and that will attempt to bring up a text viewer based on your platform and you should be able to print from that.

That area needs a lot of work. It uses a hard coded text viewer instead of either asking the OS to select one, or use a config preference.

I have at least one ticket open on ham-radio-software/d-rats for text viewer selection. I do not think there is one for a print enhancement.

Thanks for all that you do.
Jim k6nra? Sacramento County Sheriff's Amateur Radio Club

Regards,
-John

We (SHARP, Sheriff's Amateur Radio Program) just finished up working a local airshow.? We use D-RATS because of the high ambient noise with audio as a backup.

We always have some kind of system failure, this time one of those were the data cables that go from the radio, Icom 2820 to the usb ports on the laptops.

Our existing homebrew cables have a 2.5mm stereo phone plug on one end (RS-232), a nine pin DB9 connector, going to a DB9 RS-232 to a USB connector.? The cable has
had a history of bad intermittent connections which drove us nuts.

We could buy new cables from RT Systems, believe they are about $25 each, but what other sources do you recommend?
What we need is one with a 2.5mm stereo phone plug on one end and a USB connector on the other end.

Last question, I know this has been asked before, what is a good ratflector to monitor over the internet, we know the default one no longer exists.? I have looked at the database and don't have time to go fishing.

One more thing, forgot to ask, getting too old -

What is the best way to print messages in D-RATS?? I've been copying and pasting into a plain text document, doing the editing if necessary, then sending to the printer.? Is there another way to print?? You would think there would be under FILE>PRINT.? I can also copy and paste from the log file of course.

Thanks for all that you do.

Jim k6nra? Sacramento County Sheriff's Amateur Radio Club

Hi All:
I read somewhere a file can be placed at repeater working directory with allowed users. Is this right?? Interested in control access to a local EMMCOM ratflector.? ?If not possible right now then will suggest to be added as feature request.?

Will appreciate any suggestion!

73'

Edfel
KP4AJ

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On 9/18/2022 9:32 AM, José David Colón Custodio wrote:

Indeed the router’s wan IP I s not the same PC IP that can be found
on whatismyip.com. I still scratching the babck omy head. I tried
yesterday to set the ratflector on Hughes HT2010 model router but did
not work neither. SO I ‘m doing the same mistake on both of them?

There is probably nothing that you can configure to on your router to make it work. Your ISP is what is blocking you from running a public ratflector. That is what I have been trying to get you to understand.

The instructions in the manual and the video do not deal with your ISP's configuration.

The instructions only work with this configuration:

PC <> Your Nat router <> ISP <> public Internet

Your configuration is:

PC <> Nat router <> ISP Nat Router <> Public Internet.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
The "ISP Nat Router" is what is stopping you.

The port forwarding needs to be set on both NAT routers, or it will not work. And you need to check with your ISP to find out if there is any way to to set the ISP Nat router to forward port 9000.

Looking back at your previous posts, your whatsmyip address is changing quite a bit. That indicates their may be multiple ISP NAT routers that would need to have the port forwarding set up.

So it does not matter what router that you use. The directions just do not apply because of how your ISP has set up their network.

What do you want to run a ratflector for?

There are quite a few existing public ratflectors that do not appear to be heavily used. Is there any reason that you can not use one of them?

Mmmmm I think so, or both companies do not support port

forwarding??? To much of a coincidence.

They support port forwarding, but it only works if the ISP is not also using NAT. As soon as you wrote that the WAN IP address did not match the whatsmyip reported IP address, as I have replied to you several times now, those instructions you have been trying to follow are never going to work. And it really does not matter how many different router models that you try.

In my opinion I ‘m not doing it right And my mistakes is on what
ports and where should I have to place on the router. I did exactly
as this guy did it but the result is on the router.

Again, those instructions do not apply to how your ISP has set up your connection to the internet. It does not matter what Nat Router that you use, or how you configure it. Your ISP is blocking you from having a ratflector that is visible on the public internet.

About VPN well I ‘ll have to learn more about this kind of science jajajajja
ON the alternative I guess I ll have to learn How to do the Docker
container COA or the VM.

I do not think that a VPN solution will work for you. You are using "Cell Phone" internet. A VPN in simple terms is a NAT router with encryption. It does not give you a public IP address for incoming connections.

VPNs will allow our outgoing traffic to appear at a different public IP, but you will still need a server at the public IP end to run the ratflector.

A container is like a light weight VM. and should have a lower monthly fee than a full VM. The hosting companies will generally show you how to set them up.

73,
-John, wb8tyw

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