#256365

Has anyone here done any work in a Gulfstream private jet? If so do you know if there's a way to control the onboard video switching and amplifier source selection?

#256366

Not to rain on your parade but before you even consider touching that jet, realize that the liability is absolutely insane. ?Nearly every single thing in that plane is regulated and or will require approval from someone…including the in flight entertainment system. ?You cannot, nor should not install any electronic thing in that plane without doing some comprehensive and exhaustive research. ?We had a client that owned a gorgeous G6 a while back and it just wasn’t worth the liability and headacheto do what the owner wanted. ?We ended up just consulting with the company that was doing the interior modifications as they were setup and familiar with all the potential regulations and certifications. ?Last thing you need is 50+ million dollar plane having issues because you interfacing with their systems.

#256367

Ok, so a company I have ownership in, owns and flies an Embraer private jet.? I sometimes fly the airplane, as I have a commercial pilot certificate and have earned the type rating to fly in the right seat.? I can speak to this.? And I'm authorized to make decisions of this nature for this airplane.? (The airplane is a Praetor 600, the type rating is EMB-550, it can carry 9 passengers plus 3 crew)

On this airplane, there's an A/V bay in the airplane that has an HDMI port and a power outlet.? It's on a shelf in the forward galley.? This is unambiguously meant for providing A/V equipment of the operator's choice.? I would see little issue or liability with someone adding a media player that interfaces with nothing but the HDMI port and power ports, so long as it is affixed with nothing stronger than velcro tape.? Embraer provided a new-in-box Apple TV as a suggestion for what to put there upon delivery of the airplane when new.? The FAA takes issue when something is permanently attached to an airplane versus stuck or sitting there, so... never screw anything down or attach anything in any way that gives the impression it's part of the airplane!

The entertainment system on this airplane is a Honeywell Ovation.? That's a system very analogous to the architecture of Crestron that controls all of the cabin functions in the airplane -- basically anything the flight attendant or passengers can access from touch screens (principally A/V, lighting, and then media control of the built-in video sources -- the inflight moving map, and a canned USB media player in this particular airplane we have never used).?

The Ovation system is controlled via a hardwired touch screen, and then, there's an Ovation app for iPad that appears to be architected as an "emulator" for the Honeywell touchscreen in the galley.? It appears to download all of the UI elements over the WiFi from the controller, just like a Crestron touchscreen downloading a vtpro project.? This Honeywell system is probably used in many other makes of airplane including Gulfstream, given that Honeywell also makes avionics and jet engines and they're all over the place.

Now for A/V control.? I could?use Proxyman (or something similar) to intercept and learn what the iPad sends to the controller in order to get the API commands to, for example, activate the HDMI input for Apple TV.? But I just never would.

Instead, do this.? Assume there is a flight attendant, or a lead principal on the airplane, who is accustomed to following and executing checklists.? That's how everything else is accomplished on the airplane, from starting the engines to shutting it down.? The most professional presentation of how to "control the Honeywell Ovation system" is to write a step-by-step checklist, intended for a flight attendant who believes himself or herself professionally competent at executing written checklists... print it on a nice durable plastic card... and have them select a place in the airplane where it "belongs".

A typical format of a crew checklist looks like this:? Object...............ACTION.? The actions should be right-justified on the page (which I'm not positive I can present in this e-mail, but easy to do in Microsoft Word if you configure a tab stop to align text this way).? Also this checklist should ideally be more like a card or smaller.? Like the size of a piece of letter paper folded in half, or smaller.

Galley Touchscreen Main Menu..................PRESS VIDEO

Input selection... SELECT GALLEY HDMI

DVD player (pretend that's what we're using)... POWERED ON

DVD Disc... INSERTED

Movie or other program... START FROM MENUS, WITH HANDHELD REMOTE CONTROL

Volume (on galley touchscreen)... ADJUST AS REQUIRED

-- AT END OF DVD PROGRAM --

Galley Touchscreen Main Menu... PRESS VIDEO

Input selection... SELECT NONE (or other, as required)

DVD Disc... REMOVE AND STOW

DVD player... POWER OFF

To a flight crew, you'll score all the points for professionalism to present this sort of checklist.

It's also worth pointing out that the crew is going to be unenthusiastic about anything that interfaces with the airplane and executes things on it outside of their control.? They are going to view a quality checklist as a polished professional way to enable them to accomplish something.

Gulfstreams -- particularly the ones with a passenger seating count of 10 or more -- have a regulatory requirement for a flight attendant to be onboard, any time 10 or more seats are occupied.? That flight attendant must have completed manufacturer specific training to qualify as that crewmember.? So you can count on there being a professional already involved and willing to be trained on a checklist as part of their duty.

Mike

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 8:06?AM AVMaster via <AVMaster619=[email protected]> wrote:

Not to rain on your parade but before you even consider touching that jet, realize that the liability is absolutely insane.? Nearly every single thing in that plane is regulated and or will require approval from someone…including the in flight entertainment system.? You cannot, nor should not install any electronic thing in that plane without doing some comprehensive and exhaustive research.? We had a client that owned a gorgeous G6 a while back and it just wasn’t worth the liability and headacheto do what the owner wanted.? We ended up just consulting with the company that was doing the interior modifications as they were setup and familiar with all the potential regulations and certifications.? Last thing you need is 50+ million dollar plane having issues because you interfacing with their systems.

#256370

I have done a substantial amount of design/programming/consulting for an aircraft -- not a Gulfstream but a MD-10. 

Beware that anything that directly connects to the aircraft electronics or structure, particularly on a permanent or nearly-permanent basis will require a somewhat insane level of both vetting and engineering, likely in the form of a Supplemental Type Certificate, or STC, and has a pretty high potential liability component (see also the Swissair 111 incident). 

(e.g. I had to initiate the revision of an equipment cabinet door to improve ventilation and getting drawings back from an aeronautical engineer was, as I understand it, a several thousand $ endeavor and was over a year from end-to-end. E.g. the type of thing that some cabinetry dude would just out a router and have done in 20 minutes in normal construction.   For the same reason most of the aircraft I know and love's payload is actually built on cargo pallets and structurally and electrically independent of the host aircraft to minimize the number of those type of concerns.  

If the onboard system is integrated with the aircraft electronics I would not be at all surprised if control is via an ARINC 429 or ARINC 664 interface but the particulars aren’t likely to be freely shared.  

--
Lincoln King-Cliby
Commercial Market Director
Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Diamond) 
ControlWorks Consulting, LLC 
Direct: (+1)440.771.4807 | Cleveland: (+1)440.449.1100? | Boston: (+1)508.695.0188 | DC: (+1)202.381.9070? 
Crestron Services Provider | Biamp Authorized Independent Programmers | Extron Qualified Independent Programmer

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gary Miller
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2025 3:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [crestron] Private jet systems??

Has anyone here done any work in a Gulfstream private jet? If so do you know if there's a way to control the onboard video switching and amplifier source selection?

#256371

开云体育

Michael this is great advice and exactly what I needed, thank you.?

For everyone else chiming in, this is an existing system that has been in place for several years, I'm not doing any physical work to this airplane. The existing system consist of a Kscape, AppleTV, autonomics streamer, and a switcher. Controlled by a CP4. All installed several years ago by someone else.?

My contract was simply to redo the programming, which was done by someone who should probably find a less technically challenging job.?

That part is complete and working very well, the problem is that the onboard video system must be on a certain HDMI input and the onboard amp must be on a different audio input with the speakers unmuted and turned all the way up.?

I love the simplicity of just making a checklist, getting it laminated and putting it in the jet, the idea is greatly appreciated thank you.?

Get

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Lincoln King-Cliby via groups.io <lincoln@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2025 2:12:59 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [crestron] Private jet systems??

?

I have done a substantial amount of design/programming/consulting for an aircraft -- not a Gulfstream but a MD-10.

Beware that anything that directly connects to the aircraft electronics or structure, particularly on a permanent or nearly-permanent basis will require a somewhat insane level of both vetting and engineering, likely in the form of a Supplemental Type Certificate, or STC, and has a pretty high potential liability component (see also the Swissair 111 incident).

(e.g. I had to initiate the revision of an equipment cabinet door to improve ventilation and getting drawings back from an aeronautical engineer was, as I understand it, a several thousand $ endeavor and was over a year from end-to-end. E.g. the type of thing that some cabinetry dude would just out a router and have done in 20 minutes in normal construction.?? For the same reason most of the aircraft I know and love's payload is actually built on cargo pallets and structurally and electrically independent of the host aircraft to minimize the number of those type of concerns.?

If the onboard system is integrated with the aircraft electronics I would not be at all surprised if control is via an ARINC 429 or ARINC 664 interface but the particulars aren’t likely to be freely shared.?

--
Lincoln King-Cliby
Commercial Market Director
Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Diamond)
ControlWorks Consulting, LLC
Direct: (+1)440.771.4807 | Cleveland: (+1)440.449.1100? | Boston: (+1)508.695.0188 | DC: (+1)202.381.9070?
Crestron Services Provider | Biamp Authorized Independent Programmers | Extron Qualified Independent Programmer

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gary Miller
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2025 3:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [crestron] Private jet systems??

Has anyone here done any work in a Gulfstream private jet? If so do you know if there's a way to control the onboard video switching and amplifier source selection?