OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution (PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop

#178660

Basically, the above.  We've taken over an old analog distribution system, and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit.  No problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the lead-in to a DM system.  Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes, BD, AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung.  No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue.  Other cable boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop.  Have tried an isolator on the component connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

#178679

If you disconnect the cable from the cable did tou continue to see the loop?

{Paf}
Le 1 mai 2013 16:48, "weddellkw" <weddellkw@...> a 閏rit :

**


Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes,
BD, AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#178680

I would check the same thing. You can pick up a cheap coax ground loop isolator from the shack or get something like the Jensen at the bottom of this page.

The Jensen works well, but if the cable company ever comes to troubleshoot an issue, they often remove them and throw them away. I usually try a cheapo first and if that causes an issue, then I go with the Jensen.

-Kevin

On May 2, 2013, at 6:12, 搁补辫丑补毛濒 Thiffault <raphaelthiffault@...> wrote:

If you disconnect the cable from the cable did tou continue to see the loop?

{Paf}
Le 1 mai 2013 16:48, "weddellkw" <weddellkw@...> a 茅crit :

**

Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes,
BD, AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

------------------------------------

Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area.
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#178686

So, whatever you plug the HDMI cable (and Vanco balun setup) into at the
equipment rack causes the loop to appear on any of the component sources
that run through the pvid?


  _____  

From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf
Of weddellkw
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution
(PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop


  

Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes, BD,
AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

#178705

Thanks for the responses:

The loop is actually present all the time.  With no HDMI connection, it is impossible to detect except on a very dark image, as a very thin and dim rolling band.  Plugging in the HDMI to any source in the rack causes it to become much larger.

This suggests to me that there has always been a loop issue but it simply wasn't noticed until we put in a big 80" tv.  Even then it wasn't noticed until the problem was exacerbated by the addition of HDMI.

The band does not appear on any of the other TV's (older Fujitsu plasmas, component only, and a small Samsung, component only)

I've been on the phone with our tech on-site off and on all morning, and he's tried every permutation we can think of.

Disconnected the cable feed from service.
Powered TV and equipment from one surge protector (Furman) via extension cord.

Show quoted text

--- In Crestron@..., "Kol Johnson" <kol.mstc@...> wrote:

So, whatever you plug the HDMI cable (and Vanco balun setup) into at the
equipment rack causes the loop to appear on any of the component sources
that run through the pvid?

  _____

From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf
Of weddellkw
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution
(PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop

Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes, BD,
AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jason santlofer

#178707

Did you try lifting the ground? If that tv even has one.?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

weddellkw <weddellkw@...> wrote:

听

Thanks for the responses:

The loop is actually present all the time. With no HDMI connection, it is impossible to detect except on a very dark image, as a very thin and dim rolling band. Plugging in the HDMI to any source in the rack causes it to become much larger.

This suggests to me that there has always been a loop issue but it simply wasn't noticed until we put in a big 80" tv. Even then it wasn't noticed until the problem was exacerbated by the addition of HDMI.

The band does not appear on any of the other TV's (older Fujitsu plasmas, component only, and a small Samsung, component only)

I've been on the phone with our tech on-site off and on all morning, and he's tried every permutation we can think of.

Disconnected the cable feed from service.
Powered TV and equipment from one surge protector (Furman) via extension cord.

--- In Crestron@..., "Kol Johnson" <kol.mstc@...> wrote:

So, whatever you plug the HDMI cable (and Vanco balun setup) into at the
equipment rack causes the loop to appear on any of the component sources
that run through the pvid?

_____

From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf
Of weddellkw
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution
(PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop

Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes, BD,
AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc { font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd { margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: 700; font-size: 78%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad { margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 0 0; } #actions { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; padding: 10px 0; } #activity { background-color: #e0ecee; float: left; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; padding: 10px; } #activity span { font-weight: 700; } #activity span:first-child { text-transform: uppercase; } #activity span a { color: #5085b6; text-decoration: none; } #activity span span { color: #ff7900; } #activity span .underline { text-decoration: underline; } .attach { clear: both; display: table; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; padding: 10px 0; width: 400px; } .attach div a { text-decoration: none; } .attach img { border: none; padding-right: 5px; } .attach label { display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } .attach label a { text-decoration: none; } blockquote { margin: 0 0 0 4px; } .bold { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-weight: 700; } .bold a { text-decoration: none; } dd.last p a { font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span { margin-right: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right: 0; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } .green { color: #628c2a; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } o { font-size: 0; } #photos div { float: left; width: 72px; } #photos div div { border: 1px solid #666666; height: 62px; overflow: hidden; width: 62px; } #photos div label { color: #666666; font-size: 10px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; white-space: nowrap; width: 64px; } #reco-category { font-size: 77%; } #reco-desc { font-size: 77%; } .replbq { margin: 4px; } #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/ margin-right: 2px; padding-right: 5px; } #ygrp-mlmsg { font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif; *font-size: small; *font: x-small; } #ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size: inherit; font: 100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea { font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif; } #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code { font:115% monospace; *font-size:100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height: 1.22em; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important; } -->[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#178708

TV is a two prong unit.  We're going to run a temporary RG6 between the TV and cable demarc to see if grounding it that way solves the problem.

Show quoted text

--- In Crestron@..., jason santlofer <jason@...> wrote:

Did you try lifting the ground? If that tv even has one.?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

weddellkw <weddellkw@...> wrote:

脗听 

Thanks for the responses:

The loop is actually present all the time. With no HDMI connection, it is impossible to detect except on a very dark image, as a very thin and dim rolling band. Plugging in the HDMI to any source in the rack causes it to become much larger.

This suggests to me that there has always been a loop issue but it simply wasn't noticed until we put in a big 80" tv. Even then it wasn't noticed until the problem was exacerbated by the addition of HDMI.

The band does not appear on any of the other TV's (older Fujitsu plasmas, component only, and a small Samsung, component only)

I've been on the phone with our tech on-site off and on all morning, and he's tried every permutation we can think of.

Disconnected the cable feed from service.
Powered TV and equipment from one surge protector (Furman) via extension cord.

--- In Crestron@..., "Kol Johnson" <kol.mstc@> wrote:

So, whatever you plug the HDMI cable (and Vanco balun setup) into at the
equipment rack causes the loop to appear on any of the component sources
that run through the pvid?

_____

From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf
Of weddellkw
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution
(PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop

Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes, BD,
AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc { font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd { margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: 700; font-size: 78%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad { margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 0 0; } #actions { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; padding: 10px 0; } #activity { background-color: #e0ecee; float: left; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; padding: 10px; } #activity span { font-weight: 700; } #activity span:first-child { text-transform: uppercase; } #activity span a { color: #5085b6; text-decoration: none; } #activity span span { color: #ff7900; } #activity span .underline { text-decoration: underline; } .attach { clear: both; display: table; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; padding: 10px 0; width: 400px; } .attach div a { text-decoration: none; } .attach img { border: none; padding-right: 5px; } .attach label { display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } .attach label a { text-decoration: none; } blockquote { margin: 0 0 0 4px; } .bold { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-weight: 700; } .bold a { text-decoration: none; } dd.last p a { font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span { margin-right: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right: 0; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } .green { color: #628c2a; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } o { font-size: 0; } #photos div { float: left; width: 72px; } #photos div div { border: 1px solid #666666; height: 62px; overflow: hidden; width: 62px; } #photos div label { color: #666666; font-size: 10px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; white-space: nowrap; width: 64px; } #reco-category { font-size: 77%; } #reco-desc { font-size: 77%; } .replbq { margin: 4px; } #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/ margin-right: 2px; padding-right: 5px; } #ygrp-mlmsg { font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif; *font-size: small; *font: x-small; } #ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size: inherit; font: 100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea { font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif; } #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code { font:115% monospace; *font-size:100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height: 1.22em; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important; } -->[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#178722

Use a ground cheater ac "adapter" on the power cord of the PVID.  9 times out of 10 that will work. (using it for the exact opposite of it's intended purpose!)

Show quoted text

--- In Crestron@..., "weddellkw" <weddellkw@...> wrote:

Thanks for the responses:

The loop is actually present all the time.  With no HDMI connection, it is impossible to detect except on a very dark image, as a very thin and dim rolling band.  Plugging in the HDMI to any source in the rack causes it to become much larger.

This suggests to me that there has always been a loop issue but it simply wasn't noticed until we put in a big 80" tv.  Even then it wasn't noticed until the problem was exacerbated by the addition of HDMI.

The band does not appear on any of the other TV's (older Fujitsu plasmas, component only, and a small Samsung, component only)


I've been on the phone with our tech on-site off and on all morning, and he's tried every permutation we can think of.

Disconnected the cable feed from service.
Powered TV and equipment from one surge protector (Furman) via extension cord.



--- In Crestron@..., "Kol Johnson" <kol.mstc@> wrote:

So, whatever you plug the HDMI cable (and Vanco balun setup) into at the
equipment rack causes the loop to appear on any of the component sources
that run through the pvid?


  _____

From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf
Of weddellkw
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Crestron@...
Subject: [Crestron] OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution
(PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop




Basically, the above. We've taken over an old analog distribution system,
and recently replaced an old Fujitsu plasma w/ a large Samsung LED unit. No
problem while on component distribution.

We were then asked to connect 'His Cable' to the new TV via HDMI as the
lead-in to a DM system. Pulled 2x Cat6 about 60' and used a Vanco balun to
accomplish this.

We now have a ground loop on component signals (additional cable boxes, BD,
AppleTV gen1) to the Samsung. No issue on the other TVs.

Disconnecting the HDMI from the cable box fixes the issue. Other cable
boxes/BD also reintroduce the loop. Have tried an isolator on the component
connections between the TV and the PVID, and the PVID and the cable box, no
change.

Any suggestions/fixes?

开云体育

OT: Introducing HDMI to component distribution (PVID/BIPAD) creates ground loop