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I don't hide buttons anymore, too dangerous.
I used to hide button all over the house, until one day the cats found a big
one I had hidden under the couch and batted it around the room until they
got bored with it and then left it in the middle of the room, I slipped on
it.


-----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf
Of Neil Dorin
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 9:36 AM
To: crestron
Subject: Re: [Crestron] Re: Anyone else hide buttons?

Oh I have the same functions on the panel, often I even display the TX and
RX strings for device control (only when that page is visible obviously) so
the techs can troubleshoot RS-232 cables. I just don't believe in hidden or
invisible buttons with press and hold functions. I think it should be a
clearly labeled button that the techs (or some advanced client staff that I
give the PIN to) can find and press, enter a PIN and now they have access.


On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 6:35 AM, eagrubbs <eagrubbs@...> wrote:

**


Too funny Neil, I give the same setup stuff. But I also do what Chip
posted on certain systems that have a need for it. Mainly stuff for me
to debug or whatever, stuff that the client will never need. It keeps
me from having to use debugger for this things.

--- In Crestron@..., Neil Dorin wrote:

I hate that. I've seen people put hidden buttons with press and hold

logic to page flip or show a subpages with installer setup or whatever.

It's not that hidden....

I always have a setup button that gives users control over TP

brightness/timeout, auto room shutdown time, etc. I have a button
labelled advanced setup that prompts for a PIN to be entered to access
the protected pages.

-Neil Dorin

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-02-21, at 7:51 PM, "stefuel2" wrote:

"I've never seen these screens before" reply "That's because I
don't

want you to use them" I leave a hidden button where only I know where
to touch on which screen for access to a device menu for devices that
require calibration. Just curious if anyone else does that.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

*
****

Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the
Database area.
*
****Yahoo! Groups Links

I have had similar issues with the NX587E module. My error logs state that a serial gather has exceeded the simpl+ processor. What is your error log saying?

--- In Crestron@..., ?ùó?áò ?á?éê?ò <coszar@> wrote:

Hi All
I have problem with a GE NX-8E interlogix.My processor is an MC3.
I have zone status for a short time (10min.-1hour).Then stops communicate and?I must reboot MC3 or
upload program in order to communicate as well.
Is there somebody who had the same problem and the solution?
?
Thanks!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That looks pretty cool... I'm not feeling like tinkering for this, otherwise I'd probably have a go at it!

- Chip


--- In Crestron@..., "jrw_96" <jrw_96@> wrote:

This is what I'm going to do (or something like it) when I find some extra time one of these weekends.



The Raspberry Pi is pretty sweet for the low low price of $35

JRW

--- In Crestron@..., "Chip" <cfm@> wrote:

The PC I had been running SqueezeServer on has gone belly-up, rendering my SB streamer a useless hunk of plastic and metal. I don't have any desire to replace the PC, so I'm looking for other options for Pandora that are A) cheap, B) standalone, and C) have an API I can take advantage of.

The WD TV Play/Live look like contenders, but I can't tell from a quick skim over the WD site if there's an API available. I see them tout their i-Device remote, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Has anyone looked further into these or any of the similar media playback boxes?

Sure as hell would love an ATC-AUDIONET option, but not for how much the card and a freaking CEN-TRACK cost... :(

Thanks,
- Chip

Nope! It's a good feature - honest. And you usually only have to deal with it once per project per VTPro revision. :)

- Chip


--- In Crestron@..., "arnt_s12" <arnt_s12@> wrote:

is it possible to stop vision tools from making a new file with the ending .VTP42 when you open older projekt files..?

So if I understand your chart (which looks great btw), you are using a
ECCONNECT per CCROSS which means a ECCONNECT per touchpanel. I was told in
training to only use 1 ECCONNECT in the program. I think it would be
easier to do it your way. Have you (or anyone) had any issues using more
than one ECCONNECT in your program?

--- In Crestron@..., Neil Dorin <neildorin@...> wrote:

Ok, so I've updated the flow chart and added some intermediate and

advanced

models of crosspoints.

These are by no means a comprehensive guide of crosspoint best practices,
but rather just a more visual representation of hierarchy and signal flow
intended to help people visualize the mechanics of crosspoints and where
the signals go...

The advanced model I've added is not necessarily the most practical

example

of layered crosspoints but I thought it best to start there as a

conceptual

base and then expand into more practical multi-layered models.

Here's the link again: Understanding
Crosspoints<

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Kris <kris.k@...> wrote:

**


I'm slowly starting to implement more cross point into my programming.

The

easiest use is for using one panel to control diferent rooms.

Typically a

roaming ipad. I have also used them to control multiples of similar
devices. I could go ahead and just use a couple hundred generic joins

of

each type and route every single device through cross points, but I

find I

still take too long to find stuff in my folders if I do this. I

learned the

basics just by adapting some of crestrons example programs for their
centrack and idoc logic. I actually took over a project from another
programmer recently who in my opinion overused cross points. It is a

little

silly to use cross points for the most basic functions, but I do

understand

how this can expedite creating a project cookie cutter style.

--- In Crestron@..., "John" wrote:

I have written a fairly basic system for my home and have been

looking

at the code for a home that a friend of mine purchased where he was

given

the option to buy the simpl program which of course I recommended he

do it.

His program is all interlocks and buffers. Being self taught I

already

had figured out this method of multi-point control from the help files

and

the primer.

I had already programmed my home in the same way because it was easy

to

understand and debug.

I have reviewed the basic crosspoints program and would like to ask

if

this is the more professional way of programming a multi-point control
system? Is there less overhead required on the CPU? Should the system

be

completely redesigned using a crosspoint system or can zones/devices be
migrated over and the buffer/interlock devices left in place until the

code

is replaced?

Since I have a small system with just 4 zones and a few components

that

are not critical to the operation of my home I have the ability to

rewrite

my system and enjoy doing it in my off time to relax and forget about

work.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
John.

------------------------------------




Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the
Database area.
Yahoo!
Groups Links

**


Too funny Neil, I give the same setup stuff. But I also do what Chip
posted on certain systems that have a need for it. Mainly stuff for me
to debug or whatever, stuff that the client will never need. It keeps
me from having to use debugger for this things.

--- In Crestron@..., Neil Dorin wrote:

I hate that. I've seen people put hidden buttons with press and hold

logic to page flip or show a subpages with installer setup or whatever.

It's not that hidden....

I always have a setup button that gives users control over TP

brightness/timeout, auto room shutdown time, etc. I have a button
labelled advanced setup that prompts for a PIN to be entered to access
the protected pages.

-Neil Dorin

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-02-21, at 7:51 PM, "stefuel2" wrote:

"I've never seen these screens before" reply "That's because I
don't

want you to use them" I leave a hidden button where only I know where
to touch on which screen for access to a device menu for devices that
require calibration. Just curious if anyone else does that.

Ok,

I've started building some basic flowcharts that illustrate what Eric and
others have been saying so far. These are the basic levels of crosspoint
implementation. I'll get into layered crosspoints next when I have some
time to dedicate to it.

Anyone looking for access to cheap web-based flowchart software should
check out lucidchart.com It plugs directly into Google Drive as well which
is super cool since that's our company email and collaboration standard.
I've been having great fun the last few days building network topology,
application and programming diagrams!

Without further ado:
Crosspoint Basics<>


On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:07 PM, John <john@...> wrote:

**


All this info is great. I am going to work on my system this weekend when
i have the time. I think starting with a rework on my 4 zone system will be
the best way for me to learn and I can always revert back if i need too.

Have a great week,
John.


--- In Crestron@..., Eric Walters wrote:

Crosspoints are like moving a serial cable between 5 devices. You push
signals into the control crosspoint inputs (TX) and they come out the
equipment crosspoints outputs (RX). Signals going into the equipment
crosspoint inputs (TX) come out the control crosspoints outputs (RX). You
use an ECCON with analog inits to tell it which Control crosspoint

(CCROSS)

to connect to which Equipment crosspoint (ECROSS).

DisconnectC disconnects everything from the Control crosspoint number
specified on ControlID. This is what you'll typically use for connecting
touchpanels to devices.
DisconnectE disconnects everything from the Equipment crosspoint

specified

on EquipID.
DisconnectEC disconnects just the connection between the specified

numbers.

DiscAll disconnect all crosspoints.

I insert one ECCON per touchpanel, in the TP's logic folder. Typically, I
tie an analog one shot to the EquipID signal going into the ECCON. The
[out] goes to DisconnectC, the [out*] goes to Connect. When the EquipID
changes, it disconnects the Control crosspoint from everything, then
connects it to the new Equipment crosspoint.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 2:12 PM, touchgfx wrote:

Thanks for your thoughts Neil, would love to see a better diagram of

how

crosspoints work and the best way to use them or how you would use

them....

when your free of course.

Thanks!

--- In Crestron@..., Neil Dorin wrote:

Buffers and interlocks are equally as functional as crosspoints,

however

they lack the flexibility and scalability of crosspoints.

Using crosspoints correctly allows the programmer to easily expand

the

number of control interfaces or controlled devices very quickly and

with

minimal effort. It can also greatly reduce the total number of

symbols

in

a program which can arguably increase system performance from a

standpoint

of the number of logic waves required in the average logic solution.

I

wouldn't say there's necessarily less CPU overhead but the processor

may

be

able to solve logic faster due to less steps in the chain.

I would recommend stepping into it gradually. The first suggestion I

would

make is to replace all of the interlocks in your program with Analog
Initialize (INIT) and Analog Equate (EQU) symbols (in pairs). They
function at a base level the same as an interlock but offer many more
advantages including the ability to have more than one input drive

the

state of the mutually exclusive logic state (in this case stored as

an

analog or integer variable) as well as more than one output in a high

state

based on the same matching integer parameter. The other big

advantage is

that you can easily tie the analog value to an Analog RAM (ARAM)

symbol

for

recall after a reboot. This means that where all of your interlocks

would

have reset or cleared after a reboot, now all of your EQUs will

repropegate

their outputs after a reboot.

Concerning migrating to a crosspoint logic based program, you can do

it

in

stages. That's how many of us learned initially where we went from

having

a control crosspoint (CCROSS) for each interface and a single

equipment

crosspoint (ECROSS) to a multi layered system with different levels

of

crosspoint relationships. The multi layered approach lends itself
perfectly to residential applications where you can have an interface
connect to a room and then the room can connect to devices as

necessary.

This has got me thinking that it's about time someone created a

proper

diagram to show how crosspoint relationships work. Time to try out my

new

cloud based flowchart software....


On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:12 AM, p00pb0t wrote:

**


"and would like to ask if this is the more professional way of

programming

a multi-point control system?"

IMO, more professional yes. However in a 4 zone system with minimal
components I would be unsure of the actual benefits of

reprogramming

other

than the learning experience.


--- In Crestron@..., "John" wrote:

I have written a fairly basic system for my home and have been

looking

at the code for a home that a friend of mine purchased where he was

given

the option to buy the simpl program which of course I recommended

he

do it.

His program is all interlocks and buffers. Being self taught I

already

had figured out this method of multi-point control from the help

files

and

the primer.

I had already programmed my home in the same way because it was

easy

to

understand and debug.

I have reviewed the basic crosspoints program and would like to

ask

if

this is the more professional way of programming a multi-point

control

system? Is there less overhead required on the CPU? Should the

system

be

completely redesigned using a crosspoint system or can

zones/devices be

migrated over and the buffer/interlock devices left in place until

the

code

is replaced?

Since I have a small system with just 4 zones and a few

components

that

are not critical to the operation of my home I have the ability to

rewrite

my system and enjoy doing it in my off time to relax and forget

about

work.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
John.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the
Database area.

Yahoo!

Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure if you are really the unfortunate one, I mean since it didn't happen to you and all ;-)
-noob
--- In Crestron@..., "eagrubbs" <eagrubbs@> wrote:

Wow. I, unfortunately, have done tons of these panels and not had this happen. I wonder what is different, or is it just that my time is coming.

--- In Crestron@..., "Crestron Noob" <crestronoob@> wrote:

I'm now 100% convinced this is an OS/firmware issue. Happened on two brand new panels today that have never had a program loaded (only updates). Exactly the same behavior as described below, crashed while working in setup. Guess I'll report it.
-noob

--- In Crestron@..., "Stig" <ska@> wrote:

I would also check for:

Scandinavian characters(special) in graphic files or page names - insufficient power.

-Stig

--- In Crestron@..., "Crestron Noob" wrote:

Thanks for your responses. I use only alphanumeric characters in file names, as I have been burned by this before. I just checked every single one to be sure ;-)

Also I have done the initialize/restore and clean compiles. I will try the remaining suggestions to be safe.

To be clear, the panel can stay functional for hours, even days with all the buttons working, before this happens at random. Sometimes it happens with relatively short interval, like 15 minutes, but usually not.

I am deploying to 10 systems, so I guess I?ll find out if it is a bad panel soon enough..
-noob

--- In Crestron@..., Robert Parker wrote:

There another thread recently about unsupported characters in graphics file
names. I had a project with a TPMC-9 that experienced this. The panel would
work, freeze, reboot, work. It's just a thought but worth checking.
No rhyme or reason. I found it by deleting pages until the problem went
away. Can you load a simple 2 page, 2 button project where the buttons just
cause a page flip to the other page and see if it still has the problem?
(No graphics loaded)

YMMV

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Crestron Noob wrote:

**


I'm experiencing weird crashes with TPMC-9 (OS 3.001.0052, FW 2.11.0039)

Panel dims way before the standby timeout (1 - 15 seconds after a button
press). If I touch it, the picture comes back, only to dim down again
literally the next second. Repeat a few times, then it reboots. Comes back
up as if nothing had happened.

The only message I could find in logs was "render timeout", I'm not sure
it's related at all. Core2 project with a CP2e.

Any ideas?

Thanks
-noob

So if I understand your chart (which looks great btw), you are using a
ECCONNECT per CCROSS which means a ECCONNECT per touchpanel. I was told in
training to only use 1 ECCONNECT in the program. I think it would be
easier to do it your way. Have you (or anyone) had any issues using more
than one ECCONNECT in your program?

--- In Crestron@..., Neil Dorin <neildorin@...> wrote:

Ok, so I've updated the flow chart and added some intermediate and

advanced

models of crosspoints.

These are by no means a comprehensive guide of crosspoint best practices,
but rather just a more visual representation of hierarchy and signal flow
intended to help people visualize the mechanics of crosspoints and where
the signals go...

The advanced model I've added is not necessarily the most practical

example

of layered crosspoints but I thought it best to start there as a

conceptual

base and then expand into more practical multi-layered models.

Here's the link again: Understanding
Crosspoints<

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Kris <kris.k@...> wrote:

**


I'm slowly starting to implement more cross point into my programming.

The

easiest use is for using one panel to control diferent rooms.

Typically a

roaming ipad. I have also used them to control multiples of similar
devices. I could go ahead and just use a couple hundred generic joins

of

each type and route every single device through cross points, but I

find I

still take too long to find stuff in my folders if I do this. I

learned the

basics just by adapting some of crestrons example programs for their
centrack and idoc logic. I actually took over a project from another
programmer recently who in my opinion overused cross points. It is a

little

silly to use cross points for the most basic functions, but I do

understand

how this can expedite creating a project cookie cutter style.

--- In Crestron@..., "John" wrote:

I have written a fairly basic system for my home and have been

looking

at the code for a home that a friend of mine purchased where he was

given

the option to buy the simpl program which of course I recommended he

do it.

His program is all interlocks and buffers. Being self taught I

already

had figured out this method of multi-point control from the help files

and

the primer.

I had already programmed my home in the same way because it was easy

to

understand and debug.

I have reviewed the basic crosspoints program and would like to ask

if

this is the more professional way of programming a multi-point control
system? Is there less overhead required on the CPU? Should the system

be

completely redesigned using a crosspoint system or can zones/devices be
migrated over and the buffer/interlock devices left in place until the

code

is replaced?

Since I have a small system with just 4 zones and a few components

that

are not critical to the operation of my home I have the ability to

rewrite

my system and enjoy doing it in my off time to relax and forget about

work.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
John.

------------------------------------




Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers.

A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the
Database area.
Yahoo!
Groups Links

Ok, so I've updated the flow chart and added some intermediate and advanced
models of crosspoints.

These are by no means a comprehensive guide of crosspoint best practices,
but rather just a more visual representation of hierarchy and signal flow
intended to help people visualize the mechanics of crosspoints and where
the signals go...

The advanced model I've added is not necessarily the most practical example
of layered crosspoints but I thought it best to start there as a conceptual
base and then expand into more practical multi-layered models.

Here's the link again: Understanding
Crosspoints<>


On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Kris <kris.k@...> wrote:

**


I'm slowly starting to implement more cross point into my programming. The
easiest use is for using one panel to control diferent rooms. Typically a
roaming ipad. I have also used them to control multiples of similar
devices. I could go ahead and just use a couple hundred generic joins of
each type and route every single device through cross points, but I find I
still take too long to find stuff in my folders if I do this. I learned the
basics just by adapting some of crestrons example programs for their
centrack and idoc logic. I actually took over a project from another
programmer recently who in my opinion overused cross points. It is a little
silly to use cross points for the most basic functions, but I do understand
how this can expedite creating a project cookie cutter style.

--- In Crestron@..., "John" wrote:

I have written a fairly basic system for my home and have been looking

at the code for a home that a friend of mine purchased where he was given
the option to buy the simpl program which of course I recommended he do it.

His program is all interlocks and buffers. Being self taught I already

had figured out this method of multi-point control from the help files and
the primer.

I had already programmed my home in the same way because it was easy to

understand and debug.

I have reviewed the basic crosspoints program and would like to ask if

this is the more professional way of programming a multi-point control
system? Is there less overhead required on the CPU? Should the system be
completely redesigned using a crosspoint system or can zones/devices be
migrated over and the buffer/interlock devices left in place until the code
is replaced?

Since I have a small system with just 4 zones and a few components that

are not critical to the operation of my home I have the ability to rewrite
my system and enjoy doing it in my off time to relax and forget about work.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
John.

This is what I'm going to do (or something like it) when I find some extra time one of these weekends.



The Raspberry Pi is pretty sweet for the low low price of $35

JRW

--- In Crestron@..., "Chip" <cfm@> wrote:

The PC I had been running SqueezeServer on has gone belly-up, rendering my SB streamer a useless hunk of plastic and metal. I don't have any desire to replace the PC, so I'm looking for other options for Pandora that are A) cheap, B) standalone, and C) have an API I can take advantage of.

The WD TV Play/Live look like contenders, but I can't tell from a quick skim over the WD site if there's an API available. I see them tout their i-Device remote, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Has anyone looked further into these or any of the similar media playback boxes?

Sure as hell would love an ATC-AUDIONET option, but not for how much the card and a freaking CEN-TRACK cost... :(

Thanks,
- Chip

The PC I had been running SqueezeServer on has gone belly-up, rendering my SB streamer a useless hunk of plastic and metal. I don't have any desire to replace the PC, so I'm looking for other options for Pandora that are A) cheap, B) standalone, and C) have an API I can take advantage of.

The WD TV Play/Live look like contenders, but I can't tell from a quick skim over the WD site if there's an API available. I see them tout their i-Device remote, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Has anyone looked further into these or any of the similar media playback boxes?

Sure as hell would love an ATC-AUDIONET option, but not for how much the card and a freaking CEN-TRACK cost... :(

Thanks,
- Chip

Search the posts, it has been covered many times. You can also search google and get the remote central link for the info too.

--- In Crestron@..., "campana3012" <campana3012@> wrote:

so using the crestron samsung module und4000 (or something like that)
on a 51 inch samsung plasma pn51blahblah--any way--it kinda works except
when it turns off for no signal- it will not turn on again with exlink until u use remote cntrl to turn it on after which it works fine--so I disabled the auto turn off with no signal--but am concerned about power outage reboot not working--any ideas? is there some menu driven setting that will alow exlink to always work?

The WD TV Live does not have a "real" open API, but it is built on top of DLNA (at least for rendering).So from what I have heard you should be able to use the DMR controls. With the WD Live TV you will still need a uPNP/DLNA server running, so I dunno if this puts you back at square one or whether this is helpful at all. "Cheap" is really a subjective term. The other option you have is to ebay/Craigslist old laptops, throw up a flavor of linux you like, and configure it for Logitech Media Server (used to be SqueezeServer).



--- In Crestron@..., "Chip" <cfm@> wrote:

The PC I had been running SqueezeServer on has gone belly-up, rendering my SB streamer a useless hunk of plastic and metal. I don't have any desire to replace the PC, so I'm looking for other options for Pandora that are A) cheap, B) standalone, and C) have an API I can take advantage of.

The WD TV Play/Live look like contenders, but I can't tell from a quick skim over the WD site if there's an API available. I see them tout their i-Device remote, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Has anyone looked further into these or any of the similar media playback boxes?

Sure as hell would love an ATC-AUDIONET option, but not for how much the card and a freaking CEN-TRACK cost... :(

Thanks,
- Chip

The PC I had been running SqueezeServer on has gone belly-up, rendering my SB streamer a useless hunk of plastic and metal. I don't have any desire to replace the PC, so I'm looking for other options for Pandora that are A) cheap, B) standalone, and C) have an API I can take advantage of.

The WD TV Play/Live look like contenders, but I can't tell from a quick skim over the WD site if there's an API available. I see them tout their i-Device remote, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Has anyone looked further into these or any of the similar media playback boxes?

Sure as hell would love an ATC-AUDIONET option, but not for how much the card and a freaking CEN-TRACK cost... :(

Thanks,
- Chip