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Re: NVX Philosophical Network Config Pondering

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thorsten,

?

Thanks for checking on that ¨C I was just about to mock up the gear I have on hand to test the theory myself¡­

?

In the era of low-bandwidth multicast (Bonjour, mDNS, even PTP and audio) this design wouldn¡¯t be of much concern but it does seem about time for a new, industry-standard version of IGMP to handle high-bandwidth multicast (or perhaps I just need to look into leveraging things like PIM)

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Thorsten K?hler
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2025 11:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [crestron] NVX Philosophical Network Config Pondering

?

Hi,

did some further research.

It seems as if it?s indeed the case that all multicast stream need to flow through the querier. Netgear?s IGMP Plus implementation prevents unsubscribed streams from flowing through the querier, but once a stream is subscribed, it also goes via the querier.

?

Cheers,

Thorsten
Re: NVX Philosophical Network Config Pondering

 

Hi,
did some further research.
It seems as if it?s indeed the case that all multicast stream need to flow through the querier. Netgear?s IGMP Plus implementation prevents unsubscribed streams from flowing through the querier, but once a stream is subscribed, it also goes via the querier.
?
Cheers,
Thorsten
Re: 10 Room Multi Wedding Venue Playlist Management Ideas

 

I didn't know this existed.? Thanks so much for posting.?
Re: 10 Room Multi Wedding Venue Playlist Management Ideas

 

You should reach out to (Spotify business) and see what they have to offer.? If they have commercial players and handle the licensing you may be able to interface with an API on the touch panels to control the playback.? If the end user brings their own music / equipment you could give them an audio jack in the room or use a Bluetooth receiver.

-Jordan


On Sat, May 24, 2025, 1:51?PM christian via <christian=[email protected]> wrote:

Ok.? I have a client who is trying to control wedding music from multiple touch panels and needs a simple way to manage playlists.? Ten Rooms, ten touch panels.? You can have ten weddings going on at the same time, three weddings a night, so on any given night you can have 30 weddings.? Say, 5 songs per wedding, that¡¯s 30 different playlists, 150 songs total (I¡¯m simplifying).? Seven days a week.? The kicker is that the playlists will all be set up weeks or months in advance, so we are managing hundreds, possibly thousands of playlists.

My first thought was either NAX or Autonomic, but the playlist management isn¡¯t going to cut it.? Also, NAX is out because you can¡¯t use locally stored files, only the streaming services.? Autonomic you can use local files.? For simplicity, let¡¯s say we go with the Media Player object on a 70 series panel controlling Spotify streaming (or whatever).? Using this method, It doesn¡¯t take long for playlist management to get out of control.

For example.? Client phone call:? ¡°Hello, this is [CLIENT NAME] and we are getting married on [DATE] at [TIME] in [ROOM NAME] and we would like to walk down the isle to [SONG].? Multiply that by a thousand.

The solution I am thinking about is programing the panels in HTML, and embedding the meta data and song files from a database or a Google Sheet.? A simple website would be used to manage all playlists.? Like this:


This would be ideal, because whomever is taking the clients requests can just update the database from a webpage, from anywhere, and even search by date/room#/client name.? Each touch panel would sort the db by date and room name and display the relevant songs.? The problem?? This would involve dragging and dropping actual files into a hierarchy, which I personally haven¡¯t done since Limewire was a thing.? So the embed not only has to have the ability to point to a real file, but it would more often need to point to some kind of ID or song name on one of the streaming services.? Let¡¯s just say that I must have missed that chapter in my copy of Javascript for Dummies.

Yes, the easiest way to do this would be via a laptop in each room, which they don¡¯t want.? The safest way to do this is to make each couple bring their own music, which they don¡¯t want.??

I¡¯m not even sure a database is the best approach, so I¡¯m open to ideas.? I also haven¡¯t quoted a price, so DM me and I¡¯m happy to partner with one of you if you have a solution I can¡¯t see.

?

Sorry for the long read, and thanks everybody!
Re: 10 Room Multi Wedding Venue Playlist Management Ideas

 

Thanks man.? Yeah, this could be a complete mess.? Which also makes it funny, which is why I kinda loved posting it.? They want to use files provided by the client (don't get me started), but also streaming services.? They think they are going to be able to just push "play" on the touch panel, and the correct song will play, based on date, time, and room.? I've been provided with a "layout", which has a page that just shows five "play" buttons, with the text "song 1", "song 2", etc.? They think that they don't need a tech in each room for this...that the client can push play from the touch panel, which is way beyond the capabilities of any "scheduler" module I've ever seen.? Already on the ASCAP/BMI thing, that's pretty easy.? The only reason I'm looking into this at all is because they have the budget, and it would be a six figure service plan.? But that's only if I can pull it off.? It is unlike any other commercial job I've ever done, and I'm not sure it is even possible (well...everything is possible, but this one seems implausible). I have really enjoyed thinking about it, though.??
Re: 10 Room Multi Wedding Venue Playlist Management Ideas

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

My thoughts would be to put all playlist creation in a server DB not related to your Crestron system.

Then when an event is supposed to occur, have the TP reach out to the server and pull the playlist for that selected room/time.

This **should** allow the facility to better manage song selection thru a webpage and possibly find a pre-made software solution leaving you to manage 1 event per room and not 10,000 events.

?Just my penny input....


On 5/24/2025 6:36 PM, Phil Moore via groups.io wrote:

Just some thoughts and questions:
?
Who is providing the tracks? The end client or the facility? If the latter, are they going to provide a library of available tracks for client perusal?
How are the tracks being triggered and by who? Will there be an AV operator/DJ provided with the space??
?
Would you not set up a streaming server to allow playback of the playlist?
At which point some form of scheduler would be required to expose the appropriate playlist to the allocated space at the appropriate time.
?
It seems that this will become a management nightmare. And a copyright nightmare.
?
In the past I have used a QSYS core to expose multiple playlists in a training facility - this might be an appropriate thing to investigate.
?
At the end of the day I'm glad this isn't my job!!!! :-)?
?
--
Cheers
Phil
Re: First time working on fusion

 

There's a full set of code symbols and joins that need to be added to the program to hook it into a fusion server. It's a whole thing that is covered in... I want to say I think it was in CTI-P201?? At any rate, it's not just a switch you flip... adding fusion to any program (at least the right way) pretty much triples the coding time.
Re: 10 Room Multi Wedding Venue Playlist Management Ideas

 

Just some thoughts and questions:
?
Who is providing the tracks? The end client or the facility? If the latter, are they going to provide a library of available tracks for client perusal?
How are the tracks being triggered and by who? Will there be an AV operator/DJ provided with the space??
?
Would you not set up a streaming server to allow playback of the playlist?
At which point some form of scheduler would be required to expose the appropriate playlist to the allocated space at the appropriate time.
?
It seems that this will become a management nightmare. And a copyright nightmare.
?
In the past I have used a QSYS core to expose multiple playlists in a training facility - this might be an appropriate thing to investigate.
?
At the end of the day I'm glad this isn't my job!!!! :-)?
?
--
Cheers
Phil
10 Room Multi Wedding Venue Playlist Management Ideas

 

Ok.? I have a client who is trying to control wedding music from multiple touch panels and needs a simple way to manage playlists.? Ten Rooms, ten touch panels.? You can have ten weddings going on at the same time, three weddings a night, so on any given night you can have 30 weddings.? Say, 5 songs per wedding, that¡¯s 30 different playlists, 150 songs total (I¡¯m simplifying).? Seven days a week.? The kicker is that the playlists will all be set up weeks or months in advance, so we are managing hundreds, possibly thousands of playlists.

My first thought was either NAX or Autonomic, but the playlist management isn¡¯t going to cut it.? Also, NAX is out because you can¡¯t use locally stored files, only the streaming services.? Autonomic you can use local files.? For simplicity, let¡¯s say we go with the Media Player object on a 70 series panel controlling Spotify streaming (or whatever).? Using this method, It doesn¡¯t take long for playlist management to get out of control.

For example.? Client phone call:? ¡°Hello, this is [CLIENT NAME] and we are getting married on [DATE] at [TIME] in [ROOM NAME] and we would like to walk down the isle to [SONG].? Multiply that by a thousand.

The solution I am thinking about is programing the panels in HTML, and embedding the meta data and song files from a database or a Google Sheet.? A simple website would be used to manage all playlists.? Like this:


This would be ideal, because whomever is taking the clients requests can just update the database from a webpage, from anywhere, and even search by date/room#/client name.? Each touch panel would sort the db by date and room name and display the relevant songs.? The problem?? This would involve dragging and dropping actual files into a hierarchy, which I personally haven¡¯t done since Limewire was a thing.? So the embed not only has to have the ability to point to a real file, but it would more often need to point to some kind of ID or song name on one of the streaming services.? Let¡¯s just say that I must have missed that chapter in my copy of Javascript for Dummies.

Yes, the easiest way to do this would be via a laptop in each room, which they don¡¯t want.? The safest way to do this is to make each couple bring their own music, which they don¡¯t want.??

I¡¯m not even sure a database is the best approach, so I¡¯m open to ideas.? I also haven¡¯t quoted a price, so DM me and I¡¯m happy to partner with one of you if you have a solution I can¡¯t see.

?

Sorry for the long read, and thanks everybody!
Re: First time working on fusion

 

I have only implemented Fusion once for my certification exam but there are modules that I used to get the required data into Fusion. ?I don¡¯t think that anything happens automatically.
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

I think it¡¯s pretty hilarious listening to a bunch of Crestron guys talk about how expensive another product is. :-)
PC locks up for 3-5 min after installing Crestron software

 

this has been going on for over a year now
WIn11 24H2
the install finishes, but clicking anything other than the open window will not work
wait a while and PC starts responding again
does this for database updates and every other exe from Crestron as well
First time working on fusion

 

I have a customer whose fusion server has already been setup by the previous company. Their server is on-premise.
?
We have replaced the old processor and doing all the programming from scratch.
?
I wanted to know is there any setting that needs to made on the new processor rmc4 to communicate with customer on-premise fusion server?
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 12:36 PM, MGmail wrote:
I'll back up what Tony said, I've used the Amazon Linovision poe over two wire many many times and it has been rock solid.
I just ordered a set to try...
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 11:04 AM, Tony Golden wrote:
For a very inexpensive option, I've used these - . The oldest site was 3 or 4 years ago, with no reported issues.

The only other model I've used are the NVT, which as far as I know were the first to offer such a product - . However, the NVT will probably be even higher cost than the 2N or other brands (which I've also heard work well).
The LinoVision looks definitely worth the testing, as it is REALLY inexpensive!? I used the NVT units years ago and they worked well, but it looks like a 1-to-1 kit is ~$600 which is REALLY expensive.?
?
Michael brings up a good point to be tested for the 100mb units, so again I think its worth testing, given the DoorBird unit (which is a good choice) is 4X the LinoVision...
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

I'll back up what Tony said, I've used the Amazon Linovision poe over two wire many many times and it has been rock solid.


On Fri, May 23, 2025, 9:25 a.m. Thorsten K?hler via <thorsten.koehler=[email protected]> wrote:

Good call Mike, pointing out Cresnet not being twisted pair.

?

I didn?t think of that.

?

Cheers,

Thorsten

?

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> Im Auftrag von Michael Caldwell-Waller via
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Mai 2025 18:20
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [crestron] Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

?

Just having done this before as an experiment, I would avoid assuming 100Mbit Ethernet will run over any 4 wires, even with Cresnet cable¡¯s shielding.

?

100Mb Ethernet takes a noticeable hit in signal quality even just from getting the pairs wrong (e.g. crimping 1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 instead of 3-6 and 4-5 as pairs as required by the spec).? The physics of the twists is critical to the noise rejection strategy, and isn¡¯t the same as the?physics of shielding.?

?

A highly likely real-world outcome is you¡¯ll get a link light and initial indications of it working, but packet loss will be high, you¡¯ll get intermittent packet loss for sure, and possibly a connection so bad you could struggle to load a web page.? Imagine a scenario where the connection works but only while the nearby fluorescent lights or motorized appliances are off. ?my Raspberry Pi solutions will look medical-, and aerospace-worthy by comparison.?

?

If you must do this, force the connection to 10 megabits, which is noticeably more tolerant of this.? Also consider relatively inexpensive commercial solutions that run Ethernet over copper twisted pair media (these borrow strategies from old-school modems and DSL including sweeping the cable for frequencies that pass cleanly, and modulating the signal using only those)

?

Mike

?

?

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 06:48 Thorsten K?hler via <thorsten.koehler=[email protected]> wrote:

Oh, I wasn?t aware this was referring to an old thread reusing Cresnet wiring for Ethernet/PoE.

As Cresnet is 4-wire and standard 100Mbit Ethernet is based on 4-wire (even with PoE), it shouldn?t be a problem to use Cresnet wiring for that purpose.

I?d use a keystone CAT-modul and put the four Cresnet strands onto the corresponding terminals. Then use a standard patch cord.

?

Cheers,

Thorsten

?

?

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> Im Auftrag von ckangis
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Mai 2025 14:36
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [crestron] Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

?

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 07:30 AM, Thorsten K?hler wrote:

DIN-CENCN-2-POE

Thorsten, I don't think that's going to work. I'm pretty sure that the DIN-CENCN-2-POE only takes an ethernet comms to serve Cresnet devices.

?

The thread is about using Cresnet cable (or any 2-wire cable) and convert it to ethernet/POE, basically extending the usefulness of old infrastructure.

DoorBird makes one that we have used, but it's a bit $$$, about $375/set (dealer)

?

I know that 2N and Lantronix among others make these devices. One would have to find/test a less expensive unit if you can find it...
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Good call Mike, pointing out Cresnet not being twisted pair.

?

I didn?t think of that.

?

Cheers,

Thorsten

?

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> Im Auftrag von Michael Caldwell-Waller via groups.io
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Mai 2025 18:20
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [crestron] Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

?

Just having done this before as an experiment, I would avoid assuming 100Mbit Ethernet will run over any 4 wires, even with Cresnet cable¡¯s shielding.

?

100Mb Ethernet takes a noticeable hit in signal quality even just from getting the pairs wrong (e.g. crimping 1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 instead of 3-6 and 4-5 as pairs as required by the spec).? The physics of the twists is critical to the noise rejection strategy, and isn¡¯t the same as the?physics of shielding.?

?

A highly likely real-world outcome is you¡¯ll get a link light and initial indications of it working, but packet loss will be high, you¡¯ll get intermittent packet loss for sure, and possibly a connection so bad you could struggle to load a web page.? Imagine a scenario where the connection works but only while the nearby fluorescent lights or motorized appliances are off. ?my Raspberry Pi solutions will look medical-, and aerospace-worthy by comparison.?

?

If you must do this, force the connection to 10 megabits, which is noticeably more tolerant of this.? Also consider relatively inexpensive commercial solutions that run Ethernet over copper twisted pair media (these borrow strategies from old-school modems and DSL including sweeping the cable for frequencies that pass cleanly, and modulating the signal using only those)

?

Mike

?

?

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 06:48 Thorsten K?hler via <thorsten.koehler=[email protected]> wrote:

Oh, I wasn?t aware this was referring to an old thread reusing Cresnet wiring for Ethernet/PoE.

As Cresnet is 4-wire and standard 100Mbit Ethernet is based on 4-wire (even with PoE), it shouldn?t be a problem to use Cresnet wiring for that purpose.

I?d use a keystone CAT-modul and put the four Cresnet strands onto the corresponding terminals. Then use a standard patch cord.

?

Cheers,

Thorsten

?

?

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> Im Auftrag von ckangis
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Mai 2025 14:36
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [crestron] Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

?

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 07:30 AM, Thorsten K?hler wrote:

DIN-CENCN-2-POE

Thorsten, I don't think that's going to work. I'm pretty sure that the DIN-CENCN-2-POE only takes an ethernet comms to serve Cresnet devices.

?

The thread is about using Cresnet cable (or any 2-wire cable) and convert it to ethernet/POE, basically extending the usefulness of old infrastructure.

DoorBird makes one that we have used, but it's a bit $$$, about $375/set (dealer)

?

I know that 2N and Lantronix among others make these devices. One would have to find/test a less expensive unit if you can find it...
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

Just having done this before as an experiment, I would avoid assuming 100Mbit Ethernet will run over any 4 wires, even with Cresnet cable¡¯s shielding.

100Mb Ethernet takes a noticeable hit in signal quality even just from getting the pairs wrong (e.g. crimping 1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 instead of 3-6 and 4-5 as pairs as required by the spec).? The physics of the twists is critical to the noise rejection strategy, and isn¡¯t the same as the?physics of shielding.?

A highly likely real-world outcome is you¡¯ll get a link light and initial indications of it working, but packet loss will be high, you¡¯ll get intermittent packet loss for sure, and possibly a connection so bad you could struggle to load a web page.? Imagine a scenario where the connection works but only while the nearby fluorescent lights or motorized appliances are off. ?my Raspberry Pi solutions will look medical-, and aerospace-worthy by comparison.?

If you must do this, force the connection to 10 megabits, which is noticeably more tolerant of this.? Also consider relatively inexpensive commercial solutions that run Ethernet over copper twisted pair media (these borrow strategies from old-school modems and DSL including sweeping the cable for frequencies that pass cleanly, and modulating the signal using only those)

Mike


On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 06:48 Thorsten K?hler via <thorsten.koehler=[email protected]> wrote:

Oh, I wasn?t aware this was referring to an old thread reusing Cresnet wiring for Ethernet/PoE.

As Cresnet is 4-wire and standard 100Mbit Ethernet is based on 4-wire (even with PoE), it shouldn?t be a problem to use Cresnet wiring for that purpose.

I?d use a keystone CAT-modul and put the four Cresnet strands onto the corresponding terminals. Then use a standard patch cord.

?

Cheers,

Thorsten

?

?

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> Im Auftrag von ckangis
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Mai 2025 14:36
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [crestron] Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

?

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 07:30 AM, Thorsten K?hler wrote:

DIN-CENCN-2-POE

Thorsten, I don't think that's going to work. I'm pretty sure that the DIN-CENCN-2-POE only takes an ethernet comms to serve Cresnet devices.

?

The thread is about using Cresnet cable (or any 2-wire cable) and convert it to ethernet/POE, basically extending the usefulness of old infrastructure.

DoorBird makes one that we have used, but it's a bit $$$, about $375/set (dealer)

?

I know that 2N and Lantronix among others make these devices. One would have to find/test a less expensive unit if you can find it...
Re: Cresnet to Ethernet adaptor

 

For a very inexpensive option, I've used these - . The oldest site was 3 or 4 years ago, with no reported issues.

The only other model I've used are the NVT, which as far as I know were the first to offer such a product - . However, the NVT will probably be even higher cost than the 2N or other brands (which I've also heard work well).

--- On May 23, 2025 at 8:36 AM, ckangis wrote:

Thorsten, I don't think that's going to work. I'm pretty sure that the DIN-
CENCN-2-POE only takes an ethernet comms to serve Cresnet devices.

The thread is about using Cresnet cable (or any 2-wire cable) and convert it to
ethernet/POE, basically extending the usefulness of old infrastructure.
DoorBird makes one that we have used, but it's a bit $$$, about $375/set
(dealer)


I know that 2N and Lantronix among others make these devices. One would have to
find/test a less expensive unit if you can find it...
Re: Horizon 2 simultaneous buttons

 

I don't have an Hz to test but with other keypads, Each button is registered separately so you can P+H one and Press another in SMW.
Now with the 'Split' Button I can't say for sure, but since they are defined separately, I would expect that you can do this successfully...
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