Greetings C-Car friends.
I recall when I joined the group there was a lot of chatter about a C-Car meetup in Florida. My wife and I travel quite a bit (kiddo too!) and are eyeing a quick trip back to Florida where I know these events tend to cluster.?Are there any shindigs coming up? I regret we won't be able to bring #LimeEV, but I'd sure like to get my eyes on what everyone else has done and/or is doing to their own C-Cars.
Thanks and be well,
JL Johnson Lees Summit, MO JLJ4774@... @User47 / #LimeEV
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
Tesla packs are still pretty expensive, that's my only gripe. Two in series would be excellent, though.?
I went with SPIM08HP LiPo cells out of old Chinese hybrid buses. Each cell is rated at 8AH and can safely discharge at 25C which is insane. I've been running them through my testing and they seem to stand up to the wild claims. So much, in fact, that I've purchased over 200 cells. They are a unique form factor but I like a challenge. Once it's all said and done my pack will weigh less than half of the lead-acid batteries at about the same kWh rating.
Be well,
JL Johnson Lees Summit, MO JLJ4774@... @User47 / #LimeEV
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Re: New ebay listing for citicara
I have an eBay search for C-cars as well. My wife and I were laughing at that terribly overpriced red heap. Hey, shoot for the stars, right?
I'm very interested to hear more about this master list of yours, Peter. As best I know my 1980 lime green one has never been on eBay but I'd love to know more about it. Do you think you might have detail on mine? I don't have the serial number handy but would not mind sharing with our little community.?
Best,
JL Johnson? JLJ4774@... @User47 / #LimeEV
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
So has anyone worked out how to setup car with Tesla packs?? Would two in series be enough??
It appears one pack is model S is 24 volt at 250 Ah (5.3kWh)
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
Those are impressive ratings from the Volt modules.
My CCar requires a lot less to get moving than 600A. It has the original 2 gauge wiring and contactor setup.
I've managed 10-15MPH on level ground and very slight inclines with a home-built pack fuse-limited to 120A in 24V mode. With a current sensor attached, I was seeing around 90-100A to get moving. Someone else I've talked to recently says their CCar uses rarely over 250A and has a top speed of about 45MPH, with a solid-state controller. Of course, this all depends wildly on the terrain.
One possible reason for the difference in numbers is the significantly reduced weight from using Li-ion batteries--Lead-acid batteries of high capacity and quality make up probably about 1/3 of the car's weight--my (current) batteries weight perhaps 60LBS for 1.6KWH (about 30Ah)--while I don't know the weight of the batteries in the 250A quoted car, I'm sure it's less as I know they also use Lithium cells (LiFePO4 for them).
I can see an extra 600 lbs. of lead-acid batteries causing the car to draw much more amperage than with light li-ion batteries.
On the topic of a BMS: I suspect you can get away with not using a BMS for Volt cells (and probably leaf modules too), but you should be using one.
With cells in good condition, you will be fine for perhaps a few years of use--but as the cells begin to age, the internal resistance of one or two cells in a module might grow significantly larger than the other cells in the module. With a charger that only "Sees" the 0V and 48V sides of the pack, it will charge the pack to a combined voltage of 48V--but some of the individual cells might charge slower or faster because of varied internal resistances, and then you risk cells going above or below their max and min voltages.
A BMS can "see" the individual voltage of each cell, and it monitors them and balances each cell to the correct level. I've never heard of Li-ion batteries not needing a BMS for long life unless they weren't in series, so I urge you to look into it for your volt modules.
In defense of the Nissan modules: It's true that the leaf has the worst battery degradation of any recent electric car. However, the reason is largely because the leaf had no heating/cooling system for the batteries-- they weren't even air-cooled. Because of this, they ended up running too hot in summer conditions, and in extreme winter they suffered because they had no heating system.
I'm going to try using Nissan packs, and I'll update with a post on how that goes once I get there.
Probably all way more than the OP wanted to know, haha. For ease and simplicity, sounds like the Lead-acid Trojans recommended will do a fine job with the right charger.
- Jacob Field
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
I love the idea of using leaf, volt etc. Cells. My big problem is that I drive year round in Michigan and I can't charge them in temps that much of my winter has. I do have some ideas to eliminate that, but the $$ keep stacking up against it for now. I have seen the golf cart guys successfully use the leafs, but a cart is geared different and lighter.? Anyways, the temps where you live should be considered with that swap.?
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
jerry if a citicar? can go 70 mph it will never happen at best you can do 32mph my coumtercar will go 60mph it wes tom great car witch a electric engring at the plant at 30 mph it is a scary ride?
In a message dated 4/11/2019 3:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, C-Car@... writes:
?
?
I'd be afraid to go 70MPH in a CCar! I haven't driven mine over about 20MPH yet, and even that has been an experience... Good luck!
While I haven't looked as much into Volt or Tesla modules, and the lowered capacity is likely to be true, Nissan leaf modules should be plenty capable of the required power output. They are certainly capable of at least 3C (which is 180A) power output per module, because that's what the Nissan Leaf pulls from them when generating maximum power. I can't find any solid ratings online besides 180A being safe, but I would be unsurprised if they could handle slightly higher discharge rates (especially with some cooling). 180A in 48V speed mode isn't idea for the CCar based on what I've heard, but as soon as you get 12 packs you have around 6KWH and 720A in 24V speed mode, then 360A in 48V speed mode. I still have trouble believing how many amps these things draw...
Lots of options. Are you documenting your conversions anywhere? I'd love to look at the specs of your battery packs and check your numbers against my estimates.
?
?
? ? ? ? Hi Jacob and All,
? That isn't wise as the Leaf modules won't handle the power demand at all plus they normally have 20-40% capacity loss when buying them used.
Far better are Tesla or Volt modules.? And I'd go at least 100amphrs.? Volt modules? work great as they don't need? a BMS if set up right.
? ? ? ? I'm setting up a 180 mile range aero subcar trike with Volt modules as they worked so well in my EV trike pickup.? Debating on whether to use a Forklift or my old CCar motor and hope to get 70mph from it.? Though normally would only go 60mph for range.
? ? ? ? ? On lead batteries get a higher amphr rating and good charger and they'll last 5+ yrs.? Make sure all connections are wire brushed bright, tight and coat with Vaseline, etc.
.? Most damage comes at finish charging so unless charging is needed as down 50% or more than 4 days, just don't charge or all the way up.
? ? And equalize 1-2/month.
Until I switch to lithium I found East Penn/Deka normally has the best price for best quality. ? Check local auto parts stores? as 8 batteries is a big sale for them and can bargain 40%+ off the list price.
?? Make sure whomever you buy from they all come from the same batch, pallet, so
?they start off equal.? Check the batch number on each battery to be sure.
Jerry Dycus
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I plan to upgrade the batteries to li-ion, with used battery modules from a Nissan Leaf. I haven't compared prices (I suspect they're pretty decent compared to lead-acid, though.)
6 of them will make 48V at about 3KWH (60Ah), cost about $450, and take up a lot less space and weight than lead-acid equivalents. You will need a BMS (battery management/balancing system), and you might need a different charger (I read somewhere that lead-acid chargers are bad for Li-ion cells--but haven't confirmed it yet. Based on my estimates, you could probably get around 15 miles of range with 6 modules, 30 with 12, and 45 with 18, which would be as many as fit easily in the 80's ComutaCar's bumper boxes. Not sure about space in the CitiCars, but you can definitely fit 6, and probably 12. The modules should be more than capable of pushing out as many amps as the CCar needs.
If you're willing to take on a small project, I think these modules are a great way to go--and should last longer than Lead-acid batteries. But lead-acid batteries are certainly easier.
- Jacob Field
1980 Gold ComutaCar
@explosive_golfcart (instagram)
.
?
?
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
|
Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
If you are running a lower AH battery can that hurt the batteries from fast discharge of accelerating? If you went let's say 160ah insted of 220ah for example. I have big boys in my car now. But wonder if it was lightened up with lower ah batteries would that kill them from fast discharge. ?
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "John DeArmond jgd@... [C-Car]" <C-Car@...> Date: 4/11/19 6:05 PM (GMT-05:00) To: C-Car@... Subject: Re: [C-Car] Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
On 4/11/19 1:09 PM, Dave Brice dbrice3721@... [C-Car] wrote:
> I think everyone will agree whatever brand is chosen to use, the key is
> buying new if you want trouble free.
I could not envision buying used.? Except maybe Trojan and then after
I've applied my test gear to determine internal resistance, charged but
OC voltage and the CCA tester which provides a good indication of how
well the batteries will drive the car uphill.
Knowing nothing else about a battery other than it's new, a sensitive
indication of the battery's A-H capacity is it's weight.
?Example:? The Exide house battery that came with the rig failed
suddenly without warning.? Probably a corroded cell interconnect. We
were in the middle of nowhere and the only auto parts store was an
Autozone. The Exide batteries weighed about 75 lb.? The proposed
replacement weighed around 50lbs.? With no other options, I bought the
piece of junk.? When I got home I put the Autozone battery through my
battery lab.? It weighed 45lbs.? The charger is a Progressive Dynamics
PD4280 - 48 volts, 80 amps.? I have a PD charger for 12, 24 and 48
volts, modified for variable amps.
I charged and drained the battery to 10.5 volts 4 times to break it in.?
The battery had 40 amp-hours at 10 amps (C/10) down to 10.5 volts.? The
battery was rated 100 A-H so I took it back and got a refund.? I bought
a Trojan T-104.? Trojans always test with greater than nameplate
capacity.? I don't recall the tested value but it was greater than
nameplate.
> I chose interstate and have been fine.
> I also chose to upgrade to a Delta q charger, programmed for the batteries
> I chose. Overall it appears to have been worth it to do so with many
> trouble free miles.
> There are a lot of good options out there.
Delta-Q seems to be a pretty good charger, though I've never had my
hands on one to give it a rigorous testing.
John
>
|
Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
If you are running a lower AH battery can that hurt the batteries from fast discharge of accelerating? If you went let's say 160ah insted of 220ah for example. I have big boys in my car now. But wonder if it was lightened up with lower ah batteries would that kill them from fast discharge. ?
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "John DeArmond jgd@... [C-Car]" <C-Car@...> Date: 4/11/19 6:05 PM (GMT-05:00) To: C-Car@... Subject: Re: [C-Car] Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
On 4/11/19 1:09 PM, Dave Brice dbrice3721@... [C-Car] wrote:
> I think everyone will agree whatever brand is chosen to use, the key is
> buying new if you want trouble free.
I could not envision buying used.? Except maybe Trojan and then after
I've applied my test gear to determine internal resistance, charged but
OC voltage and the CCA tester which provides a good indication of how
well the batteries will drive the car uphill.
Knowing nothing else about a battery other than it's new, a sensitive
indication of the battery's A-H capacity is it's weight.
?Example:? The Exide house battery that came with the rig failed
suddenly without warning.? Probably a corroded cell interconnect. We
were in the middle of nowhere and the only auto parts store was an
Autozone. The Exide batteries weighed about 75 lb.? The proposed
replacement weighed around 50lbs.? With no other options, I bought the
piece of junk.? When I got home I put the Autozone battery through my
battery lab.? It weighed 45lbs.? The charger is a Progressive Dynamics
PD4280 - 48 volts, 80 amps.? I have a PD charger for 12, 24 and 48
volts, modified for variable amps.
I charged and drained the battery to 10.5 volts 4 times to break it in.?
The battery had 40 amp-hours at 10 amps (C/10) down to 10.5 volts.? The
battery was rated 100 A-H so I took it back and got a refund.? I bought
a Trojan T-104.? Trojans always test with greater than nameplate
capacity.? I don't recall the tested value but it was greater than
nameplate.
> I chose interstate and have been fine.
> I also chose to upgrade to a Delta q charger, programmed for the batteries
> I chose. Overall it appears to have been worth it to do so with many
> trouble free miles.
> There are a lot of good options out there.
Delta-Q seems to be a pretty good charger, though I've never had my
hands on one to give it a rigorous testing.
John
>
|
Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
On 4/11/19 1:09 PM, Dave Brice dbrice3721@... [C-Car] wrote: I think everyone will agree whatever brand is chosen to use, the key is
buying new if you want trouble free. I could not envision buying used.? Except maybe Trojan and then after I've applied my test gear to determine internal resistance, charged but OC voltage and the CCA tester which provides a good indication of how well the batteries will drive the car uphill. Knowing nothing else about a battery other than it's new, a sensitive indication of the battery's A-H capacity is it's weight. ?Example:? The Exide house battery that came with the rig failed suddenly without warning.? Probably a corroded cell interconnect. We were in the middle of nowhere and the only auto parts store was an Autozone. The Exide batteries weighed about 75 lb.? The proposed replacement weighed around 50lbs.? With no other options, I bought the piece of junk.? When I got home I put the Autozone battery through my battery lab.? It weighed 45lbs.? The charger is a Progressive Dynamics PD4280 - 48 volts, 80 amps.? I have a PD charger for 12, 24 and 48 volts, modified for variable amps. I charged and drained the battery to 10.5 volts 4 times to break it in.? The battery had 40 amp-hours at 10 amps (C/10) down to 10.5 volts.? The battery was rated 100 A-H so I took it back and got a refund.? I bought a Trojan T-104.? Trojans always test with greater than nameplate capacity.? I don't recall the tested value but it was greater than nameplate. I chose interstate and have been fine.
I also chose to upgrade to a Delta q charger, programmed for the batteries
I chose. Overall it appears to have been worth it to do so with many
trouble free miles.
There are a lot of good options out there. Delta-Q seems to be a pretty good charger, though I've never had my hands on one to give it a rigorous testing. John
|
Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
An epoxy, ply body car. Cool, it is a c.car aswell? Love to see a pic of this. Also I agree about the speed. I get mine to about 40 mph and it is white knuckled. The wheel base and solid axle makes it nervious. Much less the brakes on them are not all that good. Then the body panels cant put up with that much drag. Last thing you want is a car that cant stop doing 60 with a windshield that just blew out and smashing into you. If I remember right this happend to someone towing the car on the highway from the speed.
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "jerry freedomev freedomev@... [C-Car]" <C-Car@...> Date: 4/11/19 4:47 PM (GMT-05:00) To: C-Car@... Subject: Re: [C-Car] Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
? ? ?? Hi Jacob and All, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You certainly should be very afraid of a CCar over 45 mph, much less 70mph.? Mine is a epoxy/ply body/chassis? trike subcar with good brakes and 30% lighter, 50% better aero. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? As a former owner and friend of one of the founding employees of the CCar though I know a lot about it. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? I also have driven small EVs for 26 yrs now. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I've found the CCar needs at least 600amps to get moving so the puny 180amps when new and likely 100 amps in a used Leaf model and down to 2C, just isn't going to get it? in a CCar especially with contactor controller.? If getting an E controller it needs to be 600amp. ? ? ? ? ? ?? The Leaf modules are the worst of all the EV ones degrading far faster. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Vs the Tesla, minimum 10kwh for 48vdc and running about 5-6C. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? The Volt 48vdc at 90 amphr minimum 4kwh and make 16C, thus by far the best, lowest cost viable ones.? Plus unlike the Leaf, Tesla, etc the Volt doesn't need a BMS, a big cost savings though I hear they have hacked the Tesla BMS. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You can see 2 of mine and a bio of Bob Rice, my CCar founding friend along with Lee Hart on the Sunrise 2 EV website.???
Jerry Dycus
On Thursday, April 11, 2019, 06:36:34 PM UTC, Jacob Field jacobtimothyfield@... [C-Car] <C-Car@...> wrote:
I'd be afraid to go 70MPH in a CCar! I haven't driven mine over about 20MPH yet, and even that has been an experience... Good luck!
While I haven't looked as much into Volt or Tesla modules, and the lowered capacity is likely to be true, Nissan leaf modules should be plenty capable of the required power output. They are certainly capable of at least 3C (which is 180A) power output per module, because that's what the Nissan Leaf pulls from them when generating maximum power. I can't find any solid ratings online besides 180A being safe, but I would be unsurprised if they could handle slightly higher discharge rates (especially with some cooling). 180A in 48V speed mode isn't idea for the CCar based on what I've heard, but as soon as you get 12 packs you have around 6KWH and 720A in 24V speed mode, then 360A in 48V speed mode. I still have trouble believing how many amps these things draw....
Lots of options. Are you documenting your conversions anywhere? I'd love to look at the specs of your battery packs and check your numbers against my estimates.
?
? ? ? ? Hi Jacob and All, ? That isn't wise as the Leaf modules won't handle the power demand at all plus they normally have 20-40% capacity loss when buying them used. Far better are Tesla or Volt modules.? And I'd go at least 100amphrs.? Volt modules? work great as they don't need? a BMS if set up right. ? ? ? ? I'm setting up a 180 mile range aero subcar trike with Volt modules as they worked so well in my EV trike pickup.? Debating on whether to use a Forklift or my old CCar motor and hope to get 70mph from it.? Though normally would only go 60mph for range. ? ? ? ? ? On lead batteries get a higher amphr rating and good charger and they'll last 5+ yrs.? Make sure all connections are wire brushed bright, tight and coat with Vaseline, etc. .? Most damage comes at finish charging so unless charging is needed as down 50% or more than 4 days, just don't charge or all the way up. ? ? And equalize 1-2/month. Until I switch to lithium I found East Penn/Deka normally has the best price for best quality. ? Check local auto parts stores? as 8 batteries is a big sale for them and can bargain 40%+ off the list price. ?? Make sure whomever you buy from they all come from the same batch, pallet, so ?they start off equal.? Check the batch number on each battery to be sure.
Jerry Dycus
?
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I plan to upgrade the batteries to li-ion, with used battery modules from a Nissan Leaf. I haven't compared prices (I suspect they're pretty decent compared to lead-acid, though.)
6 of them will make 48V at about 3KWH (60Ah), cost about $450, and take up a lot less space and weight than lead-acid equivalents. You will need a BMS (battery management/balancing system), and you might need a different charger (I read somewhere that lead-acid chargers are bad for Li-ion cells--but haven't confirmed it yet. Based on my estimates, you could probably get around 15 miles of range with 6 modules, 30 with 12, and 45 with 18, which would be as many as fit easily in the 80's ComutaCar's bumper boxes. Not sure about space in the CitiCars, but you can definitely fit 6, and probably 12. The modules should be more than capable of pushing out as many amps as the CCar needs.
If you're willing to take on a small project, I think these modules are a
great way to go--and should last longer than Lead-acid batteries. But lead-acid batteries are certainly easier.
- Jacob Field 1980 Gold ComutaCar @explosive_golfcart (instagram)
.
?
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
|
Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
? ? ?? Hi Jacob and All, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You certainly should be very afraid of a CCar over 45 mph, much less 70mph.? Mine is a epoxy/ply body/chassis? trike subcar with good brakes and 30% lighter, 50% better aero. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? As a former owner and friend of one of the founding employees of the CCar though I know a lot about it. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? I also have driven small EVs for 26 yrs now. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I've found the CCar needs at least 600amps to get moving so the puny 180amps when new and likely 100 amps in a used Leaf model and down to 2C, just isn't going to get it? in a CCar especially with contactor controller.? If getting an E controller it needs to be 600amp. ? ? ? ? ? ?? The Leaf modules are the worst of all the EV ones degrading far faster. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Vs the Tesla, minimum 10kwh for 48vdc and running about 5-6C. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? The Volt 48vdc at 90 amphr minimum 4kwh and make 16C, thus by far the best, lowest cost viable ones.? Plus unlike the Leaf, Tesla, etc the Volt doesn't need a BMS, a big cost savings though I hear they have hacked the Tesla BMS. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You can see 2 of mine and a bio of Bob Rice, my CCar founding friend along with Lee Hart on the Sunrise 2 EV website.???
Jerry Dycus
On Thursday, April 11, 2019, 06:36:34 PM UTC, Jacob Field jacobtimothyfield@... [C-Car] wrote:
I'd be afraid to go 70MPH in a CCar! I haven't driven mine over about 20MPH yet, and even that has been an experience... Good luck!
While I haven't looked as much into Volt or Tesla modules, and the lowered capacity is likely to be true, Nissan leaf modules should be plenty capable of the required power output. They are certainly capable of at least 3C (which is 180A) power output per module, because that's what the Nissan Leaf pulls from them when generating maximum power. I can't find any solid ratings online besides 180A being safe, but I would be unsurprised if they could handle slightly higher discharge rates (especially with some cooling). 180A in 48V speed mode isn't idea for the CCar based on what I've heard, but as soon as you get 12 packs you have around 6KWH and 720A in 24V speed mode, then 360A in 48V speed mode. I still have trouble believing how many amps these things draw....
Lots of options. Are you documenting your conversions anywhere? I'd love to look at the specs of your battery packs and check your numbers against my estimates.
?
? ? ? ? Hi Jacob and All, ? That isn't wise as the Leaf modules won't handle the power demand at all plus they normally have 20-40% capacity loss when buying them used. Far better are Tesla or Volt modules.? And I'd go at least 100amphrs.? Volt modules? work great as they don't need? a BMS if set up right. ? ? ? ? I'm setting up a 180 mile range aero subcar trike with Volt modules as they worked so well in my EV trike pickup.? Debating on whether to use a Forklift or my old CCar motor and hope to get 70mph from it.? Though normally would only go 60mph for range. ? ? ? ? ? On lead batteries get a higher amphr rating and good charger and they'll last 5+ yrs.? Make sure all connections are wire brushed bright, tight and coat with Vaseline, etc. .? Most damage comes at finish charging so unless charging is needed as down 50% or more than 4 days, just don't charge or all the way up. ? ? And equalize 1-2/month. Until I switch to lithium I found East Penn/Deka normally has the best price for best quality. ? Check local auto parts stores? as 8 batteries is a big sale for them and can bargain 40%+ off the list price. ?? Make sure whomever you buy from they all come from the same batch, pallet, so ?they start off equal.? Check the batch number on each battery to be sure.
Jerry Dycus
?
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I plan to upgrade the batteries to li-ion, with used battery modules from a Nissan Leaf. I haven't compared prices (I suspect they're pretty decent compared to lead-acid, though.)
6 of them will make 48V at about 3KWH (60Ah), cost about $450, and take up a lot less space and weight than lead-acid equivalents. You will need a BMS (battery management/balancing system), and you might need a different charger (I read somewhere that lead-acid chargers are bad for Li-ion cells--but haven't confirmed it yet. Based on my estimates, you could probably get around 15 miles of range with 6 modules, 30 with 12, and 45 with 18, which would be as many as fit easily in the 80's ComutaCar's bumper boxes. Not sure about space in the CitiCars, but you can definitely fit 6, and probably 12. The modules should be more than capable of pushing out as many amps as the CCar needs.
If you're willing to take on a small project, I think these modules are a
great way to go--and should last longer than Lead-acid batteries. But lead-acid batteries are certainly easier.
- Jacob Field 1980 Gold ComutaCar @explosive_golfcart (instagram)
.
?
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
|
Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
I'd be afraid to go 70MPH in a CCar! I haven't driven mine over about 20MPH yet, and even that has been an experience... Good luck!
While I haven't looked as much into Volt or Tesla modules, and the lowered capacity is likely to be true, Nissan leaf modules should be plenty capable of the required power output. They are certainly capable of at least 3C (which is 180A) power output per module, because that's what the Nissan Leaf pulls from them when generating maximum power. I can't find any solid ratings online besides 180A being safe, but I would be unsurprised if they could handle slightly higher discharge rates (especially with some cooling). 180A in 48V speed mode isn't idea for the CCar based on what I've heard, but as soon as you get 12 packs you have around 6KWH and 720A in 24V speed mode, then 360A in 48V speed mode. I still have trouble believing how many amps these things draw...
Lots of options. Are you documenting your conversions anywhere? I'd love to look at the specs of your battery packs and check your numbers against my estimates.
?
? ? ? ? Hi Jacob and All, ? That isn't wise as the Leaf modules won't handle the power demand at all plus they normally have 20-40% capacity loss when buying them used. Far better are Tesla or Volt modules.? And I'd go at least 100amphrs.? Volt modules? work great as they don't need? a BMS if set up right. ? ? ? ? I'm setting up a 180 mile range aero subcar trike with Volt modules as they worked so well in my EV trike pickup.? Debating on whether to use a Forklift or my old CCar motor and hope to get 70mph from it.? Though normally would only go 60mph for range. ? ? ? ? ? On lead batteries get a higher amphr rating and good charger and they'll last 5+ yrs.? Make sure all connections are wire brushed bright, tight and coat with Vaseline, etc. .? Most damage comes at finish charging so unless charging is needed as down 50% or more than 4 days, just don't charge or all the way up. ? ? And equalize 1-2/month. Until I switch to lithium I found East Penn/Deka normally has the best price for best quality. ? Check local auto parts stores? as 8 batteries is a big sale for them and can bargain 40%+ off the list price. ?? Make sure whomever you buy from they all come from the same batch, pallet, so ?they start off equal.? Check the batch number on each battery to be sure.
Jerry Dycus
?
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I plan to upgrade the batteries to li-ion, with used battery modules from a Nissan Leaf. I haven't compared prices (I suspect they're pretty decent compared to lead-acid, though.)
6 of them will make 48V at about 3KWH (60Ah), cost about $450, and take up a lot less space and weight than lead-acid equivalents. You will need a BMS (battery management/balancing system), and you might need a different charger (I read somewhere that lead-acid chargers are bad for Li-ion cells--but haven't confirmed it yet. Based on my estimates, you could probably get around 15 miles of range with 6 modules, 30 with 12, and 45 with 18, which would be as many as fit easily in the 80's ComutaCar's bumper boxes. Not sure about space in the CitiCars, but you can definitely fit 6, and probably 12. The modules should be more than capable of pushing out as many amps as the CCar needs.
If you're willing to take on a small project, I think these modules are a
great way to go--and should last longer than Lead-acid batteries. But lead-acid batteries are certainly easier.
- Jacob Field 1980 Gold ComutaCar @explosive_golfcart (instagram)
.
?
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
? ? ? ? Hi Jacob and All, ? That isn't wise as the Leaf modules won't handle the power demand at all plus they normally have 20-40% capacity loss when buying them used. Far better are Tesla or Volt modules.? And I'd go at least 100amphrs.? Volt modules? work great as they don't need? a BMS if set up right. ? ? ? ? I'm setting up a 180 mile range aero subcar trike with Volt modules as they worked so well in my EV trike pickup.? Debating on whether to use a Forklift or my old CCar motor and hope to get 70mph from it.? Though normally would only go 60mph for range. ? ? ? ? ? On lead batteries get a higher amphr rating and good charger and they'll last 5+ yrs.? Make sure all connections are wire brushed bright, tight and coat with Vaseline, etc. .? Most damage comes at finish charging so unless charging is needed as down 50% or more than 4 days, just don't charge or all the way up. ? ? And equalize 1-2/month. Until I switch to lithium I found East Penn/Deka normally has the best price for best quality. ? Check local auto parts stores? as 8 batteries is a big sale for them and can bargain 40%+ off the list price. ?? Make sure whomever you buy from they all come from the same batch, pallet, so ?they start off equal.? Check the batch number on each battery to be sure.
Jerry Dycus
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On Thursday, April 11, 2019, 05:14:38 PM UTC, Jacob Field jacobtimothyfield@... [C-Car] wrote:
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I plan to upgrade the batteries to li-ion, with used battery modules from a Nissan Leaf. I haven't compared prices (I suspect they're pretty decent compared to lead-acid, though.)
6 of them will make 48V at about 3KWH (60Ah), cost about $450, and take up a lot less space and weight than lead-acid equivalents. You will need a BMS (battery management/balancing system), and you might need a different charger (I read somewhere that lead-acid chargers are bad for Li-ion cells--but haven't confirmed it yet. Based on my estimates, you could probably get around 15 miles of range with 6 modules, 30 with 12, and 45 with 18, which would be as many as fit easily in the 80's ComutaCar's bumper boxes. Not sure about space in the CitiCars, but you can definitely fit 6, and probably 12. The modules should be more than capable of pushing out as many amps as the CCar needs.
If you're willing to take on a small project, I think these modules are a
great way to go--and should last longer than Lead-acid batteries. But lead-acid batteries are certainly easier.
- Jacob Field 1980 Gold ComutaCar @explosive_golfcart (instagram)
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?
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
I vote for replacing the batteries with Trojans (the extended life
version of the T-104) and a smart charger Iota 45 volt 3 stage charger.
About 6 years ago I sold my so-equipped Citi to a friend.? It was also
equipped with an E-meter watt-hour meter.? He came down a couple of
weeks ago for us to go shooting (we're both PCP air rifle fans) and I
asked him about the Citi.? He says the E-meter is still reporting about
90% capacity.? Trojans are that much better!
BTW, if you decide to go this route, I have a practically new Iota
complete with the charge wizard.? I used it once while I stored a
fishing buddy's 45 volts of trolling motor while he traded boats.? I've
gotten too old and physically run down to do any of that kind of stuff
anymore so the price will be right.
John
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On 4/11/19 9:21 AM, Kriss Davis kriss_davis@... [C-Car] wrote: Hi folks.
Kriss here from Normal, IL.?? ??
I need to decide whether to get a new set of batteries for this year or sell my 1975 citicar.?? It is original with contactors, original charger, etc.?? Some body cracks.?? ??48 volt.??
I got my last set from a guy that had some used up in Milwaukee.?? ??
Also might be interested in a smart charger.?? The one in the car I think shortened the life of my current batteries.????
Thanks in advance.
Kriss Davis1975 citicar.?? Red.???
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
Agreed, your worst battery drain the rest of the pack. Buy new helps alot. I use a pro charging systems charger. Works great 4 years now and the batteries get about 90 of the miles they did when new.?
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Dave Brice dbrice3721@... [C-Car]" <C-Car@...> Date: 4/11/19 1:09 PM (GMT-05:00) To: C-Car@... Subject: [C-Car] Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
I think everyone will agree whatever brand is chosen to use, the key is buying new if you want trouble free.? I chose interstate and have been fine.? I also chose to upgrade to a Delta q charger, programmed for the batteries I chose. Overall it appears to have been worth it to do so with many trouble free miles.? There are a lot of good options out there.?
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
I think everyone will agree whatever brand is chosen to use, the key is buying new if you want trouble free.? I chose interstate and have been fine.? I also chose to upgrade to a Delta q charger, programmed for the batteries I chose. Overall it appears to have been worth it to do so with many trouble free miles.? There are a lot of good options out there.?
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I plan to upgrade the batteries to li-ion, with used battery modules from a Nissan Leaf. I haven't compared prices (I suspect they're pretty decent compared to lead-acid, though.)
6 of them will make 48V at about 3KWH (60Ah), cost about $450, and take up a lot less space and weight than lead-acid equivalents. You will need a BMS (battery management/balancing system), and you might need a different charger (I read somewhere that lead-acid chargers are bad for Li-ion cells--but haven't confirmed it yet. Based on my estimates, you could probably get around 15 miles of range with 6 modules, 30 with 12, and 45 with 18, which would be as many as fit easily in the 80's ComutaCar's bumper boxes. Not sure about space in the CitiCars, but you can definitely fit 6, and probably 12. The modules should be more than capable of pushing out as many amps as the CCar needs.
If you're willing to take on a small project, I think these modules are a
great way to go--and should last longer than Lead-acid batteries. But lead-acid batteries are certainly easier.
- Jacob Field 1980 Gold ComutaCar @explosive_golfcart (instagram)
.
?
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
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Re: New set of batteries. Etc.
I got my batteries at "SAM'S CLUB". The cheapest batteries around.
Bob
|
New set of batteries. Etc.
Hi folks.
Kriss here from Normal, IL.? ?
I need to decide whether to get a new set of batteries for this year or sell my 1975 citicar.? It is original with contactors, original charger, etc.? Some body cracks.? ?48 volt.?
I got my last set from a guy that had some used up in Milwaukee.? ?
Also might be interested in a smart charger.? The one in the car I think shortened the life of my current batteries.??
Thanks in advance. Kriss Davis 1975 citicar.? Red.??
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Jesse L "JL" Johnson
Nicholas Gee
NeonJohn