Mine was a standard marine key switch.? The key fit the doors too so I'm
inclined to think it's OEM.

I'm an amateur locksmith. I got the government to send me to locksmith
school.? I'm not in business or anything, just an enthusiastic
hobbyist.? I live in a mountain-top fishing village. Each summer I
average about 50 unlocks - where fishermen have left? the key in the
switch or on the floor.? I don't charge anything but I accept donations.

I've only had one car beat me.? Can''t remember the model but it was
from one of the Scandinavian countries.? My usual technique is to pry
the door away from the frame using nylon wedges, far enough to get a
steel rod inside the car.? I bend the rod enough that I can reach and
press the "unlock" button.? One press and the car is unlocked.? On this
car, removing the key removes power from the electric lock system.? The
lock buttons were flush with the inner door liner so I couldn't use my
"knob grabber"

I have a huge ebook on my phone that shows the door internals.? I can
use that and a slim-jim to mechanically move the lock.? There wasn't an
entry in the book for that car.? I got a borescope past the lower
weather shield and saw why.? Every moving part of the latch and lock
assembly was surrounded by metal channel.? No access at all.

Only 2 other ways to get in, both far too expensive for an amateur like
me.? One is a key cutter.? The tool is a hand operated tool that a blank
is inserted into, up to 6 depth-settings are set to one of 11 positions
(0 is no cut at all).? A smartphone application comes with the setup.?
Type in the VIN and it will display the lever settings.? Set the levers,
insert a blank, squeeze the handle and voila'.? A new perfect key.

These things are leased, partially to control distribution and partially
so the database can be kept up to date.? For years I've been trying to
buy one of these machines, maybe from a locksmith's estate, but with no
luck.

The other tool is similar, with the database of VINs vs settings. When
the VIN is set and the button pressed, the box sends out the correct
unlock code just like the smart key would.? The door unlocks.? Very
expensive gadget.

For awhile the thieves had something they called a "tumbler".? The thief
set the car brand and model and year if known, into the box and pushed
the button.? The box simply transmits every possible combinations of
unlock codes.

This only lasted for a couple of years.? The manufacturers did one or
both of two things.? One, they modified the electronics slightly so that
if the controller received a certain (usually 5) number of incorrect
codes then it locked itself for an inconvenient amount of time.? Usually
15 or 30 minutes.

The other thing is they use a rotating set of codes.? The key fob and
the lock control module are programmed to select the same next code.

I haven't kept up with the latest technology so I'm not sure what
they're doing now.? I suspect that each key contains a globally unique
and maybe encrypted serial number.? The reason I think this is that if I
have 2 smart keys for my 2012 Ford F150, I can add more keys by
following the manual's instructions.? I suspect that the computer simply
stores valid key codes.

OK, so back to the Citi switch.? Keys are very simple to make from
scratch.? I recommend removing the switch.? Take it to a locksmith.? If
he offers to make a key for less than $20, take him up on it.? Otherwise
tell him that you want to buy 4 or 5 blanks that fit the lock grooves.?
You'll probably screw up on the first couple of tries.? That will leave
you 2 or 3 blanks to make working keys with.

While you're out, stop by the hardware store and pick up some lock
graphite lube, some JB Weld and a triangle file.

Using a veneer caliper or other instrument, scribe a groove the length
of the surface where the notches will be filed.? put a tiny amount of
graphite in the groove and carefully wipe off the excess graphite using
a left to right motion.? You want to remove the excess from the flat
surface but leave the graphite in the groove.? It should look like a
brass flat surface with a black line running down the center. Carefully
insert the key into the lock.? wiggle the key back and forth in the
lock.? Small wiggles, just enough to take up the tolerance between the
pins and the cylinder.? Remove the key.

Every place a pin touched the key, there will be a smear of graphite.?
With your triangle file with the flat side up, carefully starting to
file a notch at each graphite smear.? No more than about 1/16" deep.?
Repeat for each pin.

Blow the graphite out of the lock with compressed air, canned air or
whatever.? This time you'll want to apply the graphite to only each
groove bottom.? I use a wood toothpick that I've used an X-acto knife to
carve into a tiny spoon.? put a tiny bit of graphite only at the bottom
of the groove.

Very carefully insert the key, wiggle it as before and even more
carefully remove it.? At this stage most of the graphite will be removed
from all notches.? Blow out the graphite, cut another 1/16" and repeat
the above.

When you reach the correct depth on a notch, there will be a thin
coating of graphite only at the bottom of the notch.? No graphite means
that you've gone too far.? Grab another blank and start over :-(

After you finish all 4 notches, the lock should turn smoothly.? If it
hangs a little at the beginning of the key turn then one (or more)
notches are not correct.? Put a little graphite at the bottom of each
notch, then carefully insert and remove the key. If no graphite is left
in a notch then the notch is too shallow. If there is even a partial
pile of graphite in a notch, the notch is too deep.? Grab another blank
and start over.

If you can gain access to the pin holder (above the key notches), there
is a much easier method.? For this to work, you must gain access to the
pin holder and the rear of the lock.? On top of the pin holder is a
steel plate.? Sometimes it's crimped a little.? I couldn't do this on my
switch because the body was one piece pot metal with a phenolic? rear
cap for the wire terminals.? It was attached to the body with a rolled
steel ring.? I'd have had to cut that ring to get the switch apart and I
wouldn't know if I could access the pin holder.

This top must be carefully removed by sliding it out the back.
CAREFULLY!? There is a spring in each pin hole and if you don't
carefully remove the steel plate, the spring goes flying and lands in
that place where nothing is ever found again :-)? I used a small flat
blade screwdriver held between my fingers and tapped with a bit larger.?
My fingers kept the spring from flying away.

Inside each pin hole will be a spring, a pin with flat ends and another
pin, flat on one end and conical on the other.? They will be different
lengths in each hole.? That is how the lock is keyed.? When the
intersection between the pins aligns with the cylinder, the lock turns.

Lay down some double-sided tape.? Empty each pin hole, one at a time.?
Stick the spring and the two pins to the double-sided tape.? Mark front
and back.

Remove the first pin set by covering the rest of the holes with a
finger.? Stick each part to the tape in the correct order.? repeat for
the rest of the pins.

Drop a conical pin in it's correct hole.? Insert the key blank. While
pressing fairly firmly on the pin, twist the key back and forth a few
times.? This will leave a mark on the blank to mark where to file.?
Remove the key and put the pin back on the tape. A look at the
protruding pin with the key in the cylinder will provide a pretty good
indication of how deep to file.

File a little less than the pin protruded from the cylinder.? Put the
key and the pin back and check the fit.? The pin must be exactly flush
with the cylinder.? Too tall and the pin blocks rotation.? Too short and
the upper pin blocks rotation.

Put the pin back on the tape and repeat this procedure for the rest of
the pins.? When finished, put all the proper pins in the proper holes
and with the key inserted, see if the key turns.? If you've done the
above carefully, it will.? If either the key won't turn or it hangs a
bit before turning, then there is more work to be done on the key.? If
the pin is sunk into the hole then the groove is too deep.? Grab another
blank and start over :-(

If the pin protrudes then the notch isn't deep enough and needs more filing.

When you insert or remove the key with pin(s) in the cylinder, place
your finger over the holes.? This prevents the notches from launching
the pins to that same special place.

When everything's correct, with the key removed, reattach the C-ring to
the rear of the cylinder.? Most have little prongs on each end of the
"C".? These must be bent to touch the cylinder. This prevents the
cylinder from coming out of the lock when the key is inserted.

Final step - putting the pins back in place.? First start the cover
plate so it engages its grooves but does not reach the first hole.? put
all the conical pins in place.? Drop the upper pin and spring in the
hole.? Use a jeweler's screwdriver to press the spring down while gently
tapping the cover plate until it reaches the threshold of the next
hole.? Repeat this procedure for the rest of the holes.? Insert the key
and make sure the cylinder turns freely.? Not a bad idea to squirt some
of that graphite into the key slot while holding the lock vertical.?
Spin the key a few times to distribute the graphite.? The key should
move with much less effort.

That's it.? Put the lock back on the switch and remount to the dashboard
and you're done.? Get more keys made pronto!

Here's a tip that might save a key with a notch cut too deep. You'll
need some JB Weld epoxy and an electric engraver.? JB Weld is the only
epoxy I've found that sticks to brass with the strength we need.

Clamp the key in a vice with the top of the notches flush with the top.?
A Pan-a-Vice will do.? Turn on the engraver on HIGH.? Lower the point
into the groove at about a 30 deg angle from vertical and with the
engraver held loosely, let the point bounce off about the bottom third
of the groove.? Do both sides.

When the engraver is allowed to bounce, the point digs out a sharp-edged
divot in the brass.? These divots are things that the epoxy can
mechanically bond to.

Insert the key and the proper pin and file the epoxy until the pin is
flush. Repeat for any other sunken pins.? The resulting key isn't
durable enough for regular use.? Consider it a master that more keys are
made from.

I suggest taking the master to a locksmith that has an old-fashioned
manual key duplicator.? The notch follower in the newer automatic
duplicator is sometime too high pressure for the epoxy to withstand.?
That's why I introduced the divots to try and prevent breaking loose the
epoxy.? He'll need to press lightly on that notch.

I have a friend who owns a lock shop.? He lets me go back in the storage
area, dust off the old manual machine and make my own keys.

If you have one of these or are willing to buy one:



you can fill in the bottom of the groove with silver solder (NOT
silver-bearing soft solder).? The alloy is at least as hard as brass.?
The result is a key that is good for regular use.

The Micro-torch is something I could not do without.? I run my small
tips on acetylene and oxygen and the larger tips on propane and oxygen.?
My oxygen source is a medical oxygen generator.? I have several from my
old neon shop.? Prices range from free to about $150 for a refurb from a
DME (durable medical equipment) shop.? Take along your torch to show the
salesman what your use is.? Sales for medical use requires a
prescription.? Is that dumb or what?

the smallest tip has a ruby swaged into the tip with an almost invisible
hole drilled with a laser.? It will only burn hydrogen and oxygen and
the tiny flame is invisible.? I've used it to repair a family heirloom
engagement ring.? It has 2 1 carat stones in platinum mount.? Mom had
snagged one of the retention hooks and bent it away from the diamond.? I
looked at it under my 20X stereoscope and saw that a crack had started
at the base of the prong weld.

Time for the Micro-torch and my jeweler's hydrogen/oxygen (hydrolysis)
generator.? I heated the weld white hot to anneal the previous weld.?
Platinum melts at around 5000 deg F so I wasn't even close.? I have a
platinum repair kit that contains short, fine pieces of various alloys.?
Many mass-market jewelers add base metals to their platinum mounts to
boost their profits.? Such alloys are a slightly different color from
the color of pure platinum.? That kit allows me to pick the alloy that
most closely matches the color of the ring.? Fortunately this ring is
old enough that it is pure platinum.

I removed the diamonds (because they burn vigorously when heated above a
few hundred degrees), carefully bent the prong almost back in place and
applied? some refractory jewelry putty to the top of the ring.? This
stuff cures to rock-hardness and is used to hold pieces in place while
the pieces are welded.

The glow from molten platinum is so bright that a regular electric
welding hood and filter must be used.? Problem is, one can't see
anything until something is white hot.? What I do is throw enough light
onto the object being welded that I can see clearly through the hood.?
My rig consists of a floor stand, an articulating arm and a 1500 watt
metal-halide with reflector.? I developed this years ago for
conventional welding but it works perfectly for platinum.

I mounted the ring in a vice, turned on the light, heated the previous
weld to the melting point, fed a tiny bit of filler rod and let it
cool.? Next is removing the putty.? soaking in water makes it soft
again.? Usually about 30 minutes.

I heated the adjacent prong and bent it out enough so that the diamond
could slip back in place.? Tap the prongs with a tiny brass hammer until
the diamond bites into the prong.? Repeat with the other diamond.?
Finally, grind and polish the welds and prongs so they all look the
same.? Job done.

Enjoy,
John



On 6/1/20 10:37 AM, Richard Siderits wrote:
> Its just a standard Key relay, I think Macmaster car has them.
>
> r
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:26 PM JL Johnson <jlj4774@...> wrote:
>
>> Hey, folks.
>>
>> I have a lime green 1980 Comuta-Car that has been sitting in my driveway
>> tarp'd for over a year now. The first thing on my to-do list is to get keys
>> for it as it didn't come with any. I have tried to remove the dash to get
>> at the cylinder in hopes that I could take it to a locksmith but the
>> odometer cable is too short to be able to work with. Doesn't seem I can
>> detach it from the front and at the moment I don't have a jack to be able
>> to try and do it from the bottom. I also thought about trying to get a key
>> cylinder out of the driver's side door but that looks like a complex
>> operation.
>>
>> I imagine someone somewhere has been in the same spot. What did you do?
>>
>> Appreciate any thoughts you might have.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> JLJ
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Bob, your car is a Comutacar, not a Citicar. I have both. Comutacars
have the batteries in the bumpers, Citicar batteries are under the seat.

Gail

On 5/31/2020 11:55 AM, Bob Atchinson wrote:

Bob, great reply. Thank you.

I'm old enough to remember car keyS. Plural, one for ignition and one for everything else. But now I have an embarrassing confession: It hadn't even occurred to me that would be the case for this car. D'oh! Any thoughts or insight on how one might get at a door's cylinder? I'm not afraid to dig in, but if there are known pitfalls or best practices, I'm all ears.

Thank you, all!

JLJ

Thank you, Dave. I think that might be my problem, in the car's present position I only have access to the driver's side. I'll move it around and try your approach. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply with your expertise.

Hey, folks.

I have a lime green 1980 Comuta-Car that has been sitting in my driveway tarp'd for over a year now. The first thing on my to-do list is to get keys for it as it didn't come with any. I have tried to remove the dash to get at the cylinder in hopes that I could take it to a locksmith but the odometer cable is too short to be able to work with. Doesn't seem I can detach it from the front and at the moment I don't have a jack to be able to try and do it from the bottom. I also thought about trying to get a key cylinder out of the driver's side door but that looks like a complex operation.

I imagine someone somewhere has been in the same spot. What did you do?

Appreciate any thoughts you might have.

Best,

JLJ

Pictures please...Thanks

On May 30, 2020, at 9:50 PM, Bob Atchinson <bobattwo@...> wrote:

?

I have an '81 up here in Plainfield, VT, that is looking for a home, as well. Usable batteries, Curtis 72V controller installed, motor weak, needs the usual in brakes, windshield, etc.? Upgraded three stage charger, battery cables, and radial tires.?

How about $1K?? Can help with the trailering in NE.

Thanks,

?????? Bob

Please email or call/text 802-505-3996.

Looks fantastic for $500!? Looks like it has the defroster too.?

On Tue, May 26, 2020, 6:24 PM Richard Siderits <Richard.siderits@...> wrote:

I think this was made in August 1975 #2339 off the line.

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 5:04 PM Barton Fisher <bartonfisher77@...> wrote:

Please go ahead and post picture

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 12:54 PM <Richard.siderits@...> wrote:

Hello group:

I’m selling an inherited Citicar that’s been off the road since 1981, for parts or restoration. ?

No batteries, one missing hub cap, crack in right-lower corner windshield.

I’d like to see it go to someone with the passion for this car.

Looking for 500$, no haggle, buyer picks it up, from Newtown, PA.

If interested, or need photos, email me at richard.siderits@...

rich

?

Looks fantastic for $500!? Looks like it has the defroster too.?

On Tue, May 26, 2020, 6:24 PM Richard Siderits <Richard.siderits@...> wrote:

I think this was made in August 1975 #2339 off the line.

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 5:04 PM Barton Fisher <bartonfisher77@...> wrote:

Please go ahead and post picture

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 12:54 PM <Richard.siderits@...> wrote:

Hello group:

I’m selling an inherited Citicar that’s been off the road since 1981, for parts or restoration. ?

No batteries, one missing hub cap, crack in right-lower corner windshield.

I’d like to see it go to someone with the passion for this car.

Looking for 500$, no haggle, buyer picks it up, from Newtown, PA.

If interested, or need photos, email me at richard.siderits@...

rich

?

got to be simple key of that era.....probably buy one on ebay for $10 or less

On Friday, May 29, 2020, 08:02:55 PM EDT, Gail Lucas <gaildlucas@...> wrote:

What about having a locksmith come to where the car is?

Gail


On 5/29/2020 4:26 PM, JL Johnson wrote:
> Hey, folks.
>
> I have a lime green 1980 Comuta-Car that has been sitting in my driveway
> tarp'd for over a year now. The first thing on my to-do list is to get
> keys for it as it didn't come with any. I have tried to remove the dash
> to get at the cylinder in hopes that I could take it to a locksmith but
> the odometer cable is too short to be able to work with. Doesn't seem I
> can detach it from the front and at the moment I don't have a jack to be
> able to try and do it from the bottom. I also thought about trying to
> get a key cylinder out of the driver's side door but that looks like a
> complex operation.
>
> I imagine someone somewhere has been in the same spot. What did you do?
>
> Appreciate any thoughts you might have.
>
> Best,
>
> JLJ