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Not accepting mail to yourself...
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Pretty sure this is what is happening, so everyone be sure you can accept and hold messages addressed to you.
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I received a personal message on my BBS today addressed from KD4WLE and addressed to K4WOF@...
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The status on my BBS was PN meaning it was not forwarded or read.? Looking at the messages I could see it was not queued to be forwarded, which seemed strange. Even if I did not have a FL.USA.NOAM forward record (but I do) it should have forwarded to my WW forward record, but it didn't.? More searching and this is the R lines in the message.
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R:240829/0110Z 19762@WB4MOZ.#PBFL.FL.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24
R:240829/0026Z 18150@... LinBPQ6.0.24 R:240829/0026Z 21515@KD4WLE.#SFL.FL.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.23 ?
You can see that KD4WLE forwarded it directly to the recipient, K4WOF, but he didn't keep it. He forwarded it on to WB4MOZ, who sent it to me.? Well, WB4MOZ is my forwarding partner for FL.USA.NOAM so BPQ would not send it back to the very station that sent it to me, so I am assuming it just pauses without knowing exactly what to do with it. And I, of course, found the message without it being queued so I took notice and started searching for a reason.
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Also note the middle R line has this... K4WOF.K4WOF.FL.USA.NOAM
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So it appears that K4WOF may have his HR and his HA not correct in his configuration.? I think this may be preventing him from actually stopping the forward process when he receives messages addressed to him.? That is, BPQ does not recognize that his BBS is the destination BBS because the HA and HR may be wrong.
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If that is what is happening it is caused by a misunderstanding of what an HA is as compared to an HR.?? So, it is not something I can fix, especially because I can't send him messages if his BBS does not think they are for him, since he forwards them on...
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So, anyone else have any thoughts on this?? If K4WOF (or close friend) sees this maybe he will check his HA and HR entries in his BBS and confirm or debunk my suspicions and add some additional thoughts.
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73,
Mark
N5MDT
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I would also question why WB4MOZ passed it along to TX when it should
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have remained in FL. So two issues are at play - proper hierarchical addressing and proper forwarding. R:240829/0110Z 19762@WB4MOZ.#PBFL.FL.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24 --
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
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My guess is that since the message was forwarded from k4wof to me it could not be forwarded back his way so my bbs looked at the next HA (USA) and sent it on - same as Mark couldn't send it back to me.
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The real question is why Jerry (k4wof) forwarded a message addressed to his bbs. If this is perceived to be a continuing issue maybe John can look at it.. I'm not sure there is an easy solution as some instate traffic has to go out state to get to the proper destination.? Maybe place it on hold if there is no implicit routing and the HA state id's are equal.. 73? John? wb4moz On 8/29/2024 1:15 PM, Charles Hargrove wrote:
I would also question why WB4MOZ passed it along to TX when it should |
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This is Jerry K4WOF.
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Definitely not an expert and will have to study what happened and why. Meanwhile I took the node offline to prevent recurrence. Jer Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Thursday, August 29th, 2024 at 5:42 PM, John - wb4moz via groups.io <wb4moz@...> wrote:
My guess is that since the message was forwarded from k4wof to me it |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI also noticed this today. I¡¯m going to assume it is also an issue with his HA and HR at his system. ?I see the same message looping again and again.. ? R:240829/0247Z 18152@... LinBPQ6.0.24 R:240829/0157Z 14496@N3HYM.#FRDK.MD.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24 R:240829/0110Z 19762@WB4MOZ.#PBFL.FL.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24 R:240829/0026Z 18150@... LinBPQ6.0.24 R:240829/0026Z 21515@KD4WLE.#SFL.FL.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.23 ? Note ¨C his call is in the R line twice, and he¡¯s using a fl,usa.noam, this isn¡¯t helping either. I¡¯ll be holding his traffic until this is resolved. ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of John - wb4moz via groups.io <wb4moz@...> My guess is that since the message was forwarded from k4wof to me it
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I received a different message from K4WOF addressed to KD4WLE, but it was addressed to
KD4WLE.FL.USA.NOAM instead of KD4WLE.#SFL.FL.USA.NOAM. I'm not sure why WB4MOZ forwarded a message addressed to ".FL.USA.NOAM" to Maryland or why N3HYM forwarded it to Wisconsin, but it appears that's what happened. It appears that my BBS forwarded it to KD4WLE despite the incorrect address. From: K4WOF@... To: KD4WLE@... R:240829/0010Z 14493@N3HYM.#FRDK.MD.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24 R:240829/0009Z 19760@WB4MOZ.#PBFL.FL.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24 R:240828/2352Z 18149@... LinBPQ6.0.24 Jerry K4WOF should consult with fellow Floridians regarding what his address should be and also create a user for KD4WLE with an address of?
KD4WLE.#SFL.FL.USA.NOAM. 73, Lee K5DAT Shawano, WI On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 5:37?PM j.lineback via <kilowatt=[email protected]> wrote:
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI have reached out directly to Jer on this issue to try and work through it. ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Lee Bengston via groups.io <kilo5dat@...> I received a different message from K4WOF addressed to KD4WLE, but it was addressed to KD4WLE.FL.USA.NOAM instead of KD4WLE.#SFL.FL.USA.NOAM. I'm not sure why WB4MOZ forwarded a message addressed to ".FL.USA.NOAM" to Maryland or why N3HYM forwarded it to Wisconsin, but it appears that's what happened. It appears that my BBS forwarded it to KD4WLE despite the incorrect address. ? From: K4WOF@... ? R:240829/0010Z 14493@N3HYM.#FRDK.MD.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.24 ? Jerry K4WOF should consult with fellow Floridians regarding what his address should be and also create a user for KD4WLE with an address of? KD4WLE.#SFL.FL.USA.NOAM. ? 73, Lee K5DAT Shawano, WI ? ? On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 5:37?PM j.lineback via
<kilowatt=[email protected]> wrote:
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On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 05:37 PM, j.lineback wrote:
Meanwhile I took the node offline to prevent recurrence. I don't think taking your node offline is necessary.?
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Just make sure your HA is K4WOF.FL.USA.NOAM everywhere it asks for HA,
and FL.USA.NOAM everywhere is asks for HR.
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If it already is then that eliminates the HA/HR possibility.
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Mark
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This is something that K4WOF needs to fix. For one, his hierarchical
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address needs to only have one field with his callsign before the location data. Second, he needs to look at his internal configuration to handle the message properly. As for everyone else, keep moving messages closer to it's destination not farther away. Sysops need to keep on top of all messages moving through their system for legality, efficiency and also appropriateness. You are not just a user, but the ultimate responsibility. On 8/29/2024 5:42 PM, John - wb4moz via groups.io wrote:
My guess is that since the message was forwarded from k4wof to me it could not be forwarded back his way so my bbs looked at the next HA (USA) and sent it on - same as Mark couldn't send it back to me. --
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
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On 8/29/24 19:00, Lee Bengston wrote:
".FL.USA.NOAM" to Maryland or why N3HYM forwarded it to Wisconsin, but it appears that's what happened. It appears that my BBS forwarded it to KD4WLE despite the incorrect address.? I thought FL.USA.NOAM is a complete HA. I thought #LOCAL is an extension to aid routing among BBSs in the same state. ? 73, Chuck |
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Let's use mine as an example:
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Hierarchical/Home Address - n2nov@n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam Hierarchical Route - n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam What are the parts of this address starting from the right side? NOAM - North America USA - United States NY - New York #RICH - Richmond County N2NOV - bbs in Richmond County While some in the past would just stop at the state level or an ARRL section level (like #EPA or #NLI), these areas are large compared to where it needs to go. Would you use a Zip Code of 1, 10, 103, 103 or 10310 to get to me? Of course you would use the 10310 (or Zip+4) to make sure that it got down to the smallest and most accurate level that it needs to. I work for USPS IT and can tell you how the USPS routing works. When sending off a message, you start from the right side and _keep_going_ until you can't anymore to the left. If you only have a single forwarding partner in NY, then they should know how to get to message to at least #rich, if not all the way to n2nov. Think of it as concentric circles. Once you can get to the smallest circle possible near the center, then those in that small circle should handle it and NOT go out to a larger circle. On 8/29/2024 9:32 PM, Chuck Gelm wrote:
On 8/29/24 21:28, Chuck Gelm wrote:?Ooopps, Hierarchical Route or Hierarchical Address or Home Address? --
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
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Charles, as an example, this is what I use...
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BBS Main Configuration - H Route of BBS - #rich.ny.usa.noam
BBS User Record - Home BBS - n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam
BBS Forwarding Record - BBS HA - n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam
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Creating a message - Users Address - n2nov-at-n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam
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And yes, all of the following are complete HR's:
ww
noam
usa.noam
ny.usa.noam
#rich.ny.noam
n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam
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And all of the below are complete addresses.
n2nov-at-ww
n2nov-at-noam
n2nov-at-usa.noam
n2nov-at-ny.usa.noam
n2nov-at-#rich.ny.noam
n2nov-at-n2nov.#rich.ny.usa.noam
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Of course, the more complete the address is, the greater chance of it being delivered.
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Mark
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So, this is what I believe may be happening to account for the R line part of this issue.
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To create an R line it takes the date/time then the message number at the bbs in the format of 1234-at-bbs and contatenates it with the BBS H Route of the handling bbs, then adds the version of the bbs.
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If the BBS H Route is n2nov.ny.usa.noam, and the message number is 1234-at-n2nov this is the result:
R:[date/time] 1234-at-n2nov.n2nov.ny.usa.noam bpq-6.0.24??? (note the n2nov shown twice)
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And the desired result is actually:
R:[date/time] 1234-at-n2nov.ny.usa.noam bpq.6.0.24
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So, the BBS H Route does not contain the call of the bbs. It is just the route to get to the area of the bbs.
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Disclaimer: Of course, this is just my opinion from experience... |
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Now, why does a bbs forward a message when the message is addressed to himself at that bbs?
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Does the user have a user record for himself at that BBS?? And the user record HomeBBS is that BBS??? I believe this, together with the address, is how BPQ knows to stop forwarding the message and hold it there for the user to read it.? I could be wrong here. It should stop when the BBS is reached regardless.
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So, Jerry, do you have a user record for yourself on your BBS with an accurate HomeBBS entered?
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I do think Charles is right in that Jerry needs to look closer to his forwarding rules.? However, 'moving the message closer to it's destination' while always a goal is not always possible.? For example, I am in South Texas (@STX) and there are stations in North Texas (#NTX) but I have no route to them.? However, I have a forwarding parnter in CO that does. So, I forward messages I receive at my bbs addressed to #NTX to CO, where my forwarding partner has a route to #NTX and he delivers the message to #NTX for delivery.
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John programed BPQ with the logic of comparing the elements of the HA with the forwarding rules found on the BBS and select the closest match to forward the message. And obviously to eliminate the possibility of a loop BPQ will not forward the message back to the bbs from which it was recieved.? Maybe not even to ANY bbs shown in the R lines.? So, that is why some messages take unexpected routes.
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I also have noticed that I had "Send personal messages to more than one BBS" checked, and a message to me was further forwarded by me to all of my Texas forwarding partners whose forwarding record was a match. When I unchecked this box that extra forwarding stopped.? I think that might also cause what happened to Jerry.? So, a question to Jerry, do you have "Send personal messages to more than one bbs" checked?
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John may need to look at that programming logic again.
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Mark
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOn 8/30/24 07:46, Mark Taylor wrote:
So, the BBS H Route does not contain the call of the bbs. It is just the route to get to the area of the bbs. +1 with Mark. ----- A callsign is not hierarchical, thus it should not be part of a hierarchical route. I think. :-| 73, Chuck |
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Other software packages like JNOS and FBB/Flex/Xnet do not split the bbs
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call from the rest of the hierarchical route. On 8/30/2024 9:59 AM, Chuck Gelm wrote:
On 8/30/24 07:46, Mark Taylor wrote:So, the BBS H Route does not contain the call of the bbs. It is just the route to get to the area of the bbs.+1 with Mark. --
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
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From the JNOS AUTOEXEC.NOS file:
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mbox haddress N2NOV.#RICH.NY.USA.NOAM On 8/30/2024 10:02 AM, Charles Hargrove wrote:
Other software packages like JNOS and FBB/Flex/Xnet do not split the bbs --
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
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Understanding how everyone works helps to keep the traffic flowing smoothly.
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That's why I am on all of the mailing lists for the various bbs packages. Underlying networking standards have to be commonly dealt with. On 8/30/2024 10:15 AM, Mark Taylor wrote:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 09:03 AM, Charles Hargrove wrote: --
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
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