Keyboard Shortcuts
Likes
Search
Strange (to me) BBS Forwarding Behavior
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDuring my daily review of BBS messages looking for interesting reads and also looking for routing anomalies I should address I noticed this one: 46144 04-Jun PF?? 154 N2MH??? N2MH??? N2MH??? Routing Test Viewing the message shows the single header: R:240604/1855Z 16940@WW6Q.#NEIN.IN.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.24 From a BBS perspective my node shows: i n2mh From a node perspective my end shows: n n2mh* So... I recall seeing something similar weeks ago and since I
have forwarding arrangements with both N3FUD and N3MEL I went
ahead and added #NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM in the "HR (Personals and
Directed Bulls)" for both of these nodes. I would then expect the above to be routed to one or the other of those two nodes. However since it had already been forwarded by the time I saw it I took a look in Mail Mgmt / Messages to see where my node sent it and to my surprise it was forwarded only to CX2SA. Here is a screenshot of the upper half of my simple forwarding config with CX2SA:
CX2SA happens to be at the top of my forwarding configs but given
that the N3FUD and N3MEL nodes both have #NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM in their
HR settings why would the message for N2MH have been sent only to
CX2SA? Should I have added N2MH in the forwarding TO field for N3FUD and N3MEL rather than or in addition to adding #NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM in HR? 73 de Rich WA3WLH |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýCould you post the routing trace from the BBS log for when the message arrived at your station? Thanks, John
On 05/06/2024 20:28, Rich Sahlender
wrote:
|
Mark,
Perhaps I misunderstand your reference to quality but both N3MEL and N3FUD are direct AXUDP links with quality of 203 not 161 as is the link with CX2SA. n N3MEL-7 WLHNOD:WA3WLH-7} Routes to: MELNOD:N3MEL-7 RTT=12.61 FR=169 B 1 203 6 1 N3MEL-7? 161 5 1 WA3WLH-15 ? 161 5 1 N3FUD-7 n n3fud-7 WLHNOD:WA3WLH-7} Routes to: NCPA:N3FUD-7 RTT=2.34 FR=198 B 1 203 6 1 N3FUD-7? 161 6 1 N3MEL-7 n CX2SA-7 WLHNOD:WA3WLH-7} Routes to: ARAPEY:CX2SA-7 RTT=1.65 FR=74 B 1 203 6 1 CX2SA-7The 161 in the original examples is a result of N2MH being a "secondary" via either N3MEL or N3FUD although if you check closely you will see that the link from N3FUD is to N2MH node whereas the link from N3MEL is to N2MH BBS. There is no secondary to anything at N2MH via CX2SA which is why I am asking about this given the screenshot for routing with CX2SA that has thus far limited my routing anything there unless destined for SAL.URY.NOAM or CEAM. 73 de Rich WA3WLH |
Here is the trace detail as rcvd from WW6Q followed immediately with forward to CX2SA.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
240604 18:55:32 |WW6Q-1??? Incoming Connect from WW6Q 240604 18:55:32 >WW6Q-1??? [BPQ-6.0.24.38-B1FWIHJM$] 240604 18:55:32 >WW6Q-1??? Hello WW6Q. Latest Message is 46143, Last listed is 0^M 240604 18:55:32 >WW6Q-1??? de WA3WLH>^M 240604 18:55:35 <WW6Q-1??? [BPQ-6.0.24.36-IHJM$] 240604 18:55:35 >WW6Q-1??? > 240604 18:55:38 <WW6Q-1??? SP N2MH @ N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM < N2MH $16940_WW6Q 240604 18:55:38 >WW6Q-1??? OK 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1??? Routing Test 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1??? R:240604/1855Z 16940@WW6Q.#NEIN.IN.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.24 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1??? This a test message to determine routing from the WW6Q 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1??? BBS to the N2MH BBS in New Jersey. 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1 240604 18:55:40 <WW6Q-1??? /ex 240604 18:55:40 ?WW6Q-1??? Msg 46144 Routing Trace To N2MH Via N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM 240604 18:55:40 ?WW6Q-1??? Routing Trace Type P TO N2MH VIA N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM Route On WW NA USA #NNJ N2MH 240604 18:55:40 ?WW6Q-1??? Routing Trace HR Matches BBS CX2SA Depth 2 240604 18:55:40 ?WW6Q-1??? Routing Trace HR Best Match is CX2SA 240604 18:55:40 >WW6Q-1??? > 240604 18:55:43 <WW6Q-1??? F> 240604 18:55:43 >WW6Q-1??? *** DONE 240604 18:55:44 |WW6Q-1??? WW6Q-1 Disconnected 240604 18:56:12 |CX2SA???? Connecting to BBS CX2SA 240604 18:56:12 <CX2SA???? *** CONNECTED 240604 18:56:12 >CX2SA???? C CX2SA-7 240604 18:56:13 <CX2SA???? WLHNOD:WA3WLH-7} Connected to ARAPEY:CX2SA-7 240604 18:56:13 >CX2SA???? BBS 240604 18:56:14 <CX2SA???? ARAPEY:CX2SA-7} CONNECT BYE INFO NODES ROUTES PORTS USERS MHEARD 240604 18:56:14 <CX2SA???? Type ? for list of available commands 240604 18:56:14 <CX2SA???? ARAPEY:CX2SA-7} Connected to CXBBS:CX2SA 240604 18:56:15 <CX2SA???? [FBB-7.00-AB1FHMRX$] 240604 18:56:15 <CX2SA???? Hello Rich! 240604 18:56:15 <CX2SA 240604 18:56:15 <CX2SA???? Ch. 1?? (AX_UDP) : WA3WLH-1? - Tue 04/06/24 15:56 240604 18:56:15 <CX2SA 240604 18:56:15 <CX2SA???? 1:CX2SA BBS> 240604 18:56:15 >CX2SA???? [BPQ-6.0.24.38-B1FIHJM$] 240604 18:56:15 >CX2SA???? FA P N2MH N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM N2MH 16940_WW6Q 213 240604 18:56:15 >CX2SA???? F> 48 240604 18:56:19 <CX2SA???? FS + 240604 18:56:19 |????????? Compressed Message Comp Len 168 Msg Len 213 CRC 42b7 240604 18:56:22 <CX2SA???? FF 240604 18:56:22 >CX2SA???? FQ 240604 18:56:24 |CX2SA???? CX2SA Disconnected On 6/6/24 02:47, John G8BPQ wrote:
|
On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 08:49 AM, Rich Sahlender wrote:
?SP N2MH @ N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAMIt's missing the state.? It should be N2MH.#NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM Was that a copy/paste?? Looks like it was addressed incorrectly.? I guess John can explain how the code interprets each segment when a part is missing. Mark |
Yes I can see in the BBS routing trace that it based the decision on #NNJ.USA.NOAM which is a part of the mystery for me because if you look at my original post again you will see:
i n2mh N2MH? N2MH.#NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM name 07052 Mark WEST ORANGE NJ de WA3WLH> which does include the state. 73 de Rich WA3WLH |
If I'm not mistaken Rich, the INFO command just pulls that from the WP pages.
If connected to the node itself it would pull it from the nodes INFOMSG parameter. I don't think it has anything to do with the addressing of the message when the address is entered in its entirety by the sender. I could be wrong. Mark |
Rich,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The message was addressed N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM but before you said that N3FUD and N3MEL nodes have #NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM(an extra .NJ). If this is correct then only the USA.NOAM match. CX2SA has CEAM in in routing list but because there is no general agreement whether to use 2 character or 4 character continent code BPQ accepts both but converts 4 char code to the corresponding 2 char code, and CEAM converts to NA. NOAM also converts to NA, so the message gets sent to CX2SA, as that is the first match found. The message should probably have used #NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM, but if you include both #NNJ.USA.NOAM and #NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM in your routing config it should work. 73, John On 06/06/2024 14:49, Rich Sahlender wrote:
Here is the trace detail as rcvd from WW6Q followed immediately with forward to CX2SA. |
WP is only consulted if there is no @BBS specified, and then normally only on the originating BBS. So even if you have the correct HA in your WP you won't change the @BBS? of an incoming message which already has one.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
73, John On 06/06/2024 16:56, Rich Sahlender wrote:
Yes I can see in the BBS routing trace that it based the decision on #NNJ.USA.NOAM which is a part of the mystery for me because if you look at my original post again you will see: |
Ah... I would expect the 4-to-2 conversion to end up using NA for NOAM but I was not aware that CEAM would also convert to NA hence my confusion with the CX2SA routing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It is unclear to me if N2MH sent the initial message to himself at N2MH.#NNJ.USA.NOAM or if the WW6Q BBS added #NNJ.USA.NOAM to an unqualified dest of N2MH before routing to me. If the WW6Q BBS did so it should be corrected there but is easy enough to work around by adding #NNJ.USA.NOAM in my routing as you suggest. I'll also see what I might adjust CEAM to in the CX2SA routing so as not to send anything destined for NA to SA. Thanks John. 73 de Rich WA3WLH On 6/6/24 15:09, John G8BPQ wrote:
Rich, |
On 6/6/24 15:09, John G8BPQ wrote:
Rich,Great read following this thread. John G8BPQ: Would making 'CEAM converts to NA' a true|false setting in bpq32.cfg make sense? SIMPLE or default could continue to include the conversion, but have an option: CEAM_converts_to_NA=0/1 option to be used by those in .NOAM/.NA. I am in .NOAM/.NA, thus I do not have a route to .NOAM. Following: In BPQ, Is there an internal conversion to or from .USA.? 73, Chuck |
Let me chime in? ...
Yes, I have been sending out a number of messages to myself. Yes, that's akin to having an argument with yourself. But, there's a method to the madness. And, yes, one or two of them may have been incorrectly addressed. Mainly by leaving out the NJ in the HA. That's probably what sparked this thread in the first place. I have had a bbs for about a year now, in New Jersey. Only lately have I been serious about it. So, I have been adding forwarding partners and developing appropriate routing to them. I have found that to understand how to route traffic out of a bbs, it is helpful to know how traffic comes into a bbs. Thus, the messages to myself. And, I have found that some routing is not so obvious. Case in point... Maryland is to my south, past Pennsylvania. So, to get to MD, I would think that I would send traffic to PA. Wrong! One message from MD went to Maine to another BBS in Maine, then to New York City and then to me. Another message from MD went to Connecticut to a bbs who is a forwarding parther of mine. So, to me, to get to MD, I have to go north? Funny stuff these forwarding routes. I could go on. The best ones are those BBS's who report that they have no forwarding route out and that the message may not be delivered.? Really ?? Finally, let me add some more confusion to the mix. Just recently, I have brought up a BBS in North Carolina, in addition to the one in NJ, also with the basic callsign of N2MH. So, as noted by some people above, there appear to be conflicting HA's for me. Well, both are accurate. Fortunately, mail for me destined for NC automatically gets forwarded to NJ where it gets forwarded to my master email account for all Ham Radio email systems: Winlink, AX25, AMPRnet, and MeshMail. 73, Mark, N2MH |
So, to me, to get to MD, I have to go north?In a world of RF-only forwarding, then the compass points around you would be the best path to a destination. In the world of mostly internet routing, the best method would be for each bbs sysop to figure out what state or country is best served by each of their forwarding partners. I would also dig into a forwarding partner's system to see who they would then forward to. To willy-nilly toss messages in every direction hoping that it arrives where it should is just plain SLOPPY. If you are going to be a bbs sysop, then learn what it means and keep on top of things. I just don't mean checking on your system when somebody emails you that you are down. I check on my JNOS logs multiple times in the day, especially when I get up at 6PM (after the overnight forwarding sessions), lunchtime, after dinner and at midnight when I go to bed (sometimes more often if something needs specific attention). Bottom line? Know your forwarding and NetRom partners at least two levels away, work out with them who they reliably can forward to, clean up your forwarding scripts and proper hierarchical address handling, have proper mechanisms for WhitePages handling and then educate your users how it all works while keeping on eye on it/them. Forget the easy plug and pray software/procedures or spray and pray networking links. -- Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord. NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 441.100/136.5 PL ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32 "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.) "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan |
BPQMail has a compile time option to use 2 or 4 character continent codes. I think it would make sense to make this a configuration option.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
@USA is expanded to @USA.NA.WW before processing. The same is true for any other valid HAM country code (with the appropriate continent, of course) 73, John On 07/06/2024 09:33, Chuck Gelm wrote:
On 6/6/24 15:09, John G8BPQ wrote:Rich,Great read following this thread. |