What are the different types of aerials recommended for 143Mhz meteor scatter? I would like a list to add to my talk. I use a Moxon but I know there are other types

Andy

Sent from

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 18th 2025, 08:50
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? The December recording looks to be an equipment problem. There is no sign of any sunrise effect. The January recording looks more active, but probably shows the instability that we see during the winter months due to the low solar altitude. I am stiil sorting out the January data, but the strongest flare on the 2nd? seems to be a C6.6 at about 12:30.
?The data format looks fine. I will dig out the August timings later to see how they fit.

Thanks,
John.


On 17/02/2025 18:44, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for that. I have attached a couple more screen shots - one from December last year and one from January.

?

The December one is very odd in fact I had similar results on three consecutive days - what do you think was the cause - it seemed to clear up of its own accord. Mind you at the end of every month I tend to shut the whole system down and restart it the following morning just to give the old laptop its running on a bit of a breather - I sometimes get a " file path error " message towards the end of the month !

?

The other ?screenshot shows a trace from early last month - I cannot see any signs of a SID on it and just wondered what you think - I have these results fairly regularly.?

?

I have also attached a copy of my results from last August tabulated in the form I think was indicated in the info I was sent ?- quite a busy month - more daylight more chance of recording SID's - especially around the solar max !

?

Thanks

?

Phil

?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 16th 2025, 08:43
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? Yes, I will add you to our mailing list. The January edition should be out by next weekend. Your chart appears to show 2024 April 19th. Using a ruler on the screen, the peak (lowest point) of the SID is about 13:20. This matches well with an M1.0 flare with peak timings between 13:09 and 13:25 recorded. It looks like a very good recording.

Thanks,
John.

On 15/02/2025 17:49, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for getting back to me.

?

I've been running the SID's monitoring set up for some time now and have got quite a bit of data. If you could add ?me to the mailing list that would be great - it would be good to compare notes with other members doing similar observations and be able to ask about some of the unusual traces I have recorded ! ?I have attached a normal ?one showing a SID that just happens to be on the desk top - I think I was showing my son what I was looking for - it looks pretty text book I think I think the system is running ok.

?

Thanks?

?

Phil H?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 10th 2025, 08:29
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? I'm afraid that I cannot assist with the computer problems, but I may be able to help with the SID monitoring. We publish a monthly activity summary (Radio Sky News) covering SID, magnetic, solar emission, meteor and muon observations. If you would like to be added to the mailing list, then please let me know. Back copies are on the BAA website. The sun is still quite active, so there have been plenty of SIDs to record.

John Cook.

On 09/02/2025 18:53, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi,

?

I am looking for some help please - I have recently joined the BAA and have been included in this group after purchasing the VLF receiver and kit to monitor SID's. which I am still doing - now I will hopefully in the future be able to compare results with other members.?

?

Prior to this I was observing meteors using radio, until unfortunately my computer crashed. I had some success and I still have the data as it was backed up - but of course I lost the programs I was using. Since this I have been unable to get the set-up working again. I was using a funcube dongle to receive echoes from the Graves transmitter which was connected by a virtual cable to ?Spectrum Lab. I used a config file that the Meteor section of SPA ?supplied which understand was developed by the BAA although it may have been modified and it all worked well for 2 or 3 years. I think the version of Spectrum Lab I now have has been updated and may be the root cause of the issue in as much as there may be a conflict between it and ?the config but I don't profess to know in detail about such things.

?

Any help anyone could give me on this would be most appreciated

?

Thanks

?

Phil Hayward G0PSD ? ? ??

?

------ Original Message ------
From: paul@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 7th 2025, 15:32
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Tonight..

?

The Zoom link for this presentation has been emailed out.? If you have not received it and want to join please contact me.

--

---

???? Paul Hearn? ???? ?paul@...? ???? ?RA Section Director? ???

---

?

?

?

Hi Phil,

?

The cause of the odd traces from December was quite simple - the transmitter was having a Christmas holiday and was

off air from 24th to 31st December.

?

I monitor a number of frequencies and have always found 23.4kHz to be the most unstable especially of course in winter time.

You can often spot a SID in the data when you can see a match at the other freqs, which is why I don't use a dedicated receiver

and use spectrum lab instead for my monitoring.

?

I thought that my paper on modelling SIDs was on the RAG website, but I can't find it so I've attached it to this email.

The paper expands on John's interference explanation, but despite all the maths is a simplified view.

If anyone can supply the proper waveguide equations I'd be very interested in using them!

?

Cheers,

?

Mark

?

?

?

Gorgeous SID on screenshot 12 - wonderful example! Also perhaps someone else on this group is able to explain why some of us get SIDs going upwards and others of us get them going downwards? I know it is something to do with nodes and antinodes and location of our observing stations in relationship to them but I would love to read a more extensive explanation.

Andy

Sent from

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Andrew Thornett via groups.io <andrew@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2025 7:06:43 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’

?

Hi Phil

Re.your screenshot 99 - I get that happen too! I also hope someone on this group is able to explain what is happening here.

Andy

Sent from

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of philhayward652 via groups.io <philhayward652@...>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2025 6:44:45 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’

?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for that. I have attached a couple more screen shots - one from December last year and one from January.

?

The December one is very odd in fact I had similar results on three consecutive days - what do you think was the cause - it seemed to clear up of its own accord. Mind you at the end of every month I tend to shut the whole system down and restart it the following morning just to give the old laptop its running on a bit of a breather - I sometimes get a " file path error " message towards the end of the month !

?

The other ?screenshot shows a trace from early last month - I cannot see any signs of a SID on it and just wondered what you think - I have these results fairly regularly.?

?

I have also attached a copy of my results from last August tabulated in the form I think was indicated in the info I was sent ?- quite a busy month - more daylight more chance of recording SID's - especially around the solar max !

?

Thanks

?

Phil

?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 16th 2025, 08:43
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? Yes, I will add you to our mailing list. The January edition should be out by next weekend. Your chart appears to show 2024 April 19th. Using a ruler on the screen, the peak (lowest point) of the SID is about 13:20. This matches well with an M1.0 flare with peak timings between 13:09 and 13:25 recorded. It looks like a very good recording.

Thanks,
John.

On 15/02/2025 17:49, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for getting back to me.

?

I've been running the SID's monitoring set up for some time now and have got quite a bit of data. If you could add ?me to the mailing list that would be great - it would be good to compare notes with other members doing similar observations and be able to ask about some of the unusual traces I have recorded ! ?I have attached a normal ?one showing a SID that just happens to be on the desk top - I think I was showing my son what I was looking for - it looks pretty text book I think I think the system is running ok.

?

Thanks?

?

Phil H?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 10th 2025, 08:29
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? I'm afraid that I cannot assist with the computer problems, but I may be able to help with the SID monitoring. We publish a monthly activity summary (Radio Sky News) covering SID, magnetic, solar emission, meteor and muon observations. If you would like to be added to the mailing list, then please let me know. Back copies are on the BAA website. The sun is still quite active, so there have been plenty of SIDs to record.

John Cook.

On 09/02/2025 18:53, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi,

?

I am looking for some help please - I have recently joined the BAA and have been included in this group after purchasing the VLF receiver and kit to monitor SID's. which I am still doing - now I will hopefully in the future be able to compare results with other members.?

?

Prior to this I was observing meteors using radio, until unfortunately my computer crashed. I had some success and I still have the data as it was backed up - but of course I lost the programs I was using. Since this I have been unable to get the set-up working again. I was using a funcube dongle to receive echoes from the Graves transmitter which was connected by a virtual cable to ?Spectrum Lab. I used a config file that the Meteor section of SPA ?supplied which understand was developed by the BAA although it may have been modified and it all worked well for 2 or 3 years. I think the version of Spectrum Lab I now have has been updated and may be the root cause of the issue in as much as there may be a conflict between it and ?the config but I don't profess to know in detail about such things.

?

Any help anyone could give me on this would be most appreciated

?

Thanks

?

Phil Hayward G0PSD ? ? ??

?

------ Original Message ------
From: paul@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 7th 2025, 15:32
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Tonight..

?

The Zoom link for this presentation has been emailed out.? If you have not received it and want to join please contact me.

--

---

???? Paul Hearn? ???? ?paul@...? ???? ?RA Section Director? ???

---

?

?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for that. I have attached a couple more screen shots - one from December last year and one from January.

?

The December one is very odd in fact I had similar results on three consecutive days - what do you think was the cause - it seemed to clear up of its own accord. Mind you at the end of every month I tend to shut the whole system down and restart it the following morning just to give the old laptop its running on a bit of a breather - I sometimes get a " file path error " message towards the end of the month !

?

The other ?screenshot shows a trace from early last month - I cannot see any signs of a SID on it and just wondered what you think - I have these results fairly regularly.?

?

I have also attached a copy of my results from last August tabulated in the form I think was indicated in the info I was sent ?- quite a busy month - more daylight more chance of recording SID's - especially around the solar max !

?

Thanks

?

Phil

?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 16th 2025, 08:43
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? Yes, I will add you to our mailing list. The January edition should be out by next weekend. Your chart appears to show 2024 April 19th. Using a ruler on the screen, the peak (lowest point) of the SID is about 13:20. This matches well with an M1.0 flare with peak timings between 13:09 and 13:25 recorded. It looks like a very good recording.

Thanks,
John.

On 15/02/2025 17:49, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for getting back to me.

?

I've been running the SID's monitoring set up for some time now and have got quite a bit of data. If you could add ?me to the mailing list that would be great - it would be good to compare notes with other members doing similar observations and be able to ask about some of the unusual traces I have recorded ! ?I have attached a normal ?one showing a SID that just happens to be on the desk top - I think I was showing my son what I was looking for - it looks pretty text book I think I think the system is running ok.

?

Thanks?

?

Phil H?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 10th 2025, 08:29
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? I'm afraid that I cannot assist with the computer problems, but I may be able to help with the SID monitoring. We publish a monthly activity summary (Radio Sky News) covering SID, magnetic, solar emission, meteor and muon observations. If you would like to be added to the mailing list, then please let me know. Back copies are on the BAA website. The sun is still quite active, so there have been plenty of SIDs to record.

John Cook.

On 09/02/2025 18:53, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi,

?

I am looking for some help please - I have recently joined the BAA and have been included in this group after purchasing the VLF receiver and kit to monitor SID's. which I am still doing - now I will hopefully in the future be able to compare results with other members.?

?

Prior to this I was observing meteors using radio, until unfortunately my computer crashed. I had some success and I still have the data as it was backed up - but of course I lost the programs I was using. Since this I have been unable to get the set-up working again. I was using a funcube dongle to receive echoes from the Graves transmitter which was connected by a virtual cable to ?Spectrum Lab. I used a config file that the Meteor section of SPA ?supplied which understand was developed by the BAA although it may have been modified and it all worked well for 2 or 3 years. I think the version of Spectrum Lab I now have has been updated and may be the root cause of the issue in as much as there may be a conflict between it and ?the config but I don't profess to know in detail about such things.

?

Any help anyone could give me on this would be most appreciated

?

Thanks

?

Phil Hayward G0PSD ? ? ??

?

------ Original Message ------
From: paul@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 7th 2025, 15:32
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Tonight..

?

The Zoom link for this presentation has been emailed out.? If you have not received it and want to join please contact me.

--

---

???? Paul Hearn? ???? ?paul@...? ???? ?RA Section Director? ???

---

?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 16th 2025, 08:43
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? Yes, I will add you to our mailing list. The January edition should be out by next weekend. Your chart appears to show 2024 April 19th. Using a ruler on the screen, the peak (lowest point) of the SID is about 13:20. This matches well with an M1.0 flare with peak timings between 13:09 and 13:25 recorded. It looks like a very good recording.

Thanks,
John.

On 15/02/2025 17:49, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for getting back to me.

?

I've been running the SID's monitoring set up for some time now and have got quite a bit of data. If you could add ?me to the mailing list that would be great - it would be good to compare notes with other members doing similar observations and be able to ask about some of the unusual traces I have recorded ! ?I have attached a normal ?one showing a SID that just happens to be on the desk top - I think I was showing my son what I was looking for - it looks pretty text book I think I think the system is running ok.

?

Thanks?

?

Phil H?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 10th 2025, 08:29
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? I'm afraid that I cannot assist with the computer problems, but I may be able to help with the SID monitoring. We publish a monthly activity summary (Radio Sky News) covering SID, magnetic, solar emission, meteor and muon observations. If you would like to be added to the mailing list, then please let me know. Back copies are on the BAA website. The sun is still quite active, so there have been plenty of SIDs to record.

John Cook.

On 09/02/2025 18:53, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi,

?

I am looking for some help please - I have recently joined the BAA and have been included in this group after purchasing the VLF receiver and kit to monitor SID's. which I am still doing - now I will hopefully in the future be able to compare results with other members.?

?

Prior to this I was observing meteors using radio, until unfortunately my computer crashed. I had some success and I still have the data as it was backed up - but of course I lost the programs I was using. Since this I have been unable to get the set-up working again. I was using a funcube dongle to receive echoes from the Graves transmitter which was connected by a virtual cable to ?Spectrum Lab. I used a config file that the Meteor section of SPA ?supplied which understand was developed by the BAA although it may have been modified and it all worked well for 2 or 3 years. I think the version of Spectrum Lab I now have has been updated and may be the root cause of the issue in as much as there may be a conflict between it and ?the config but I don't profess to know in detail about such things.

?

Any help anyone could give me on this would be most appreciated

?

Thanks

?

Phil Hayward G0PSD ? ? ??

?

------ Original Message ------
From: paul@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 7th 2025, 15:32
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Tonight..

?

The Zoom link for this presentation has been emailed out.? If you have not received it and want to join please contact me.

--

---

???? Paul Hearn? ???? ?paul@...? ???? ?RA Section Director? ???

---

?

?

Hi John,

?

Thanks for getting back to me.

?

I've been running the SID's monitoring set up for some time now and have got quite a bit of data. If you could add ?me to the mailing list that would be great - it would be good to compare notes with other members doing similar observations and be able to ask about some of the unusual traces I have recorded ! ?I have attached a normal ?one showing a SID that just happens to be on the desk top - I think I was showing my son what I was looking for - it looks pretty text book I think I think the system is running ok.

?

Thanks?

?

Phil H?

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 10th 2025, 08:29
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? I'm afraid that I cannot assist with the computer problems, but I may be able to help with the SID monitoring. We publish a monthly activity summary (Radio Sky News) covering SID, magnetic, solar emission, meteor and muon observations. If you would like to be added to the mailing list, then please let me know. Back copies are on the BAA website. The sun is still quite active, so there have been plenty of SIDs to record.

John Cook.

On 09/02/2025 18:53, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi,

?

I am looking for some help please - I have recently joined the BAA and have been included in this group after purchasing the VLF receiver and kit to monitor SID's. which I am still doing - now I will hopefully in the future be able to compare results with other members.?

?

Prior to this I was observing meteors using radio, until unfortunately my computer crashed. I had some success and I still have the data as it was backed up - but of course I lost the programs I was using. Since this I have been unable to get the set-up working again. I was using a funcube dongle to receive echoes from the Graves transmitter which was connected by a virtual cable to ?Spectrum Lab. I used a config file that the Meteor section of SPA ?supplied which understand was developed by the BAA although it may have been modified and it all worked well for 2 or 3 years. I think the version of Spectrum Lab I now have has been updated and may be the root cause of the issue in as much as there may be a conflict between it and ?the config but I don't profess to know in detail about such things.

?

Any help anyone could give me on this would be most appreciated

?

Thanks

?

Phil Hayward G0PSD ? ? ??

?

------ Original Message ------
From: paul@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 7th 2025, 15:32
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Tonight..

?

The Zoom link for this presentation has been emailed out.? If you have not received it and want to join please contact me.

--

---

???? Paul Hearn? ???? ?paul@...? ???? ?RA Section Director? ???

---

?

------ Original Message ------
From: jacook@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 10th 2025, 08:29
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Hello Phil,

??? ??? I'm afraid that I cannot assist with the computer problems, but I may be able to help with the SID monitoring. We publish a monthly activity summary (Radio Sky News) covering SID, magnetic, solar emission, meteor and muon observations. If you would like to be added to the mailing list, then please let me know. Back copies are on the BAA website. The sun is still quite active, so there have been plenty of SIDs to record.

John Cook.

On 09/02/2025 18:53, philhayward652 via groups.io wrote:
?

Hi,

?

I am looking for some help please - I have recently joined the BAA and have been included in this group after purchasing the VLF receiver and kit to monitor SID's. which I am still doing - now I will hopefully in the future be able to compare results with other members.?

?

Prior to this I was observing meteors using radio, until unfortunately my computer crashed. I had some success and I still have the data as it was backed up - but of course I lost the programs I was using. Since this I have been unable to get the set-up working again. I was using a funcube dongle to receive echoes from the Graves transmitter which was connected by a virtual cable to ?Spectrum Lab. I used a config file that the Meteor section of SPA ?supplied which understand was developed by the BAA although it may have been modified and it all worked well for 2 or 3 years. I think the version of Spectrum Lab I now have has been updated and may be the root cause of the issue in as much as there may be a conflict between it and ?the config but I don't profess to know in detail about such things.

?

Any help anyone could give me on this would be most appreciated

?

Thanks

?

Phil Hayward G0PSD ? ? ??

?

------ Original Message ------
From: paul@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 7th 2025, 15:32
Subject: Re: [baa-rag] RAZoom Feb. 7th 19:30 GMT Terrestrial Navigation from Cosmic Radiation’
?

Tonight..

?

The Zoom link for this presentation has been emailed out.? If you have not received it and want to join please contact me.

--

---

???? Paul Hearn? ???? ?paul@...? ???? ?RA Section Director? ???

---

?

?

Good question Andy! The first echo appears to be a head echo with maybe a little bit of so-called tail echo. As for the complex pattern, presumably that is due to persisting ionisation ‘clouds’ perhaps moving at various speeds (giving different doppler shifts) due to high level winds. Whether this was triggered by the initial event is not possible to say (may be just random