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Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Thanks,
Ed
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On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote: Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.? Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.? Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free. Jon
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What do you mean by a "stuck arbor"? Do you have a stuck collet? If so, that is a common problem. If you search for stuck collet you will find lots of posts. I have at least two threads about the problem and my solution.
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote:
Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and
Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.?
Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to
pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I
applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to
the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.?
Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free.
Jon
|
I believe I'd try a few other things before I started beating on the spindle...
WD-40 will work to loosen lightly rusted parts. Spray it several times a day, and give it a thump with a rubber mallet, deadbolt hammer, brass/bronze or lead hammer, and spray it again. Repeat several times a day. This has worked for me a bunch of times.
?Lotsa folks swear by ATF & acetone 50/50 as a penetrating oil. ATF is automatic transmission fluid, and brand or specification doesn't seem to matter.?
Relatively recently I've developed a fondness for PB Blaster. Seems to work better & faster when I have it. Use it the same way as described for WD-40, and the ATF & acetone likewise.?
If all else fails, or you're in a hurry, Jon's method will work, or you can switch methods. Persist, and something will break it loose eventually. Just be careful not to lose your temper. Don't ask.? :)
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 04:05:55 PM CDT, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote: Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.? Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.? Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free. Jon
|
I had good results chucking up a piece?of one inch octagon steel. Attached a socked and used impact wrench. Chuck was 4 jaw. You might try a variation.?
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024, 5:18 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote: I believe I'd try a few other things before I started beating on the spindle...
WD-40 will work to loosen lightly rusted parts. Spray it several times a day, and give it a thump with a rubber mallet, deadbolt hammer, brass/bronze or lead hammer, and spray it again. Repeat several times a day. This has worked for me a bunch of times.
?Lotsa folks swear by ATF & acetone 50/50 as a penetrating oil. ATF is automatic transmission fluid, and brand or specification doesn't seem to matter.?
Relatively recently I've developed a fondness for PB Blaster. Seems to work better & faster when I have it. Use it the same way as described for WD-40, and the ATF & acetone likewise.?
If all else fails, or you're in a hurry, Jon's method will work, or you can switch methods. Persist, and something will break it loose eventually. Just be careful not to lose your temper. Don't ask.? :)
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 04:05:55 PM CDT, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote: Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.? Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.? Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free. Jon
|
This is not a stuck chuck.?
It is an B&S arbor stuck inside his spindle.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I had good results chucking up a piece?of one inch octagon steel. Attached a socked and used impact wrench. Chuck was 4 jaw. You might try a variation.?
Good luck
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024, 5:18 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
I believe I'd try a few other things before I started beating on the spindle...
WD-40 will work to loosen lightly rusted parts. Spray it several times a day, and give it a thump with a rubber mallet, deadbolt hammer, brass/bronze or lead hammer, and spray it again. Repeat several times a day. This has worked for me a bunch of times.
?Lotsa folks swear by ATF & acetone 50/50 as a penetrating oil. ATF is automatic transmission fluid, and brand or specification doesn't seem to matter.?
Relatively recently I've developed a fondness for PB Blaster. Seems to work better & faster when I have it. Use it the same way as described for WD-40, and the ATF & acetone likewise.?
If all else fails, or you're in a hurry, Jon's method will work, or you can switch methods. Persist, and something will break it loose eventually. Just be careful not to lose your temper. Don't ask.? :)
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 04:05:55 PM CDT, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote:
Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and
Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.?
Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to
pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I
applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to
the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.?
Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free.
Jon
|
ATF & acetone, Liquid Wrench, PB B'laster, WD-40 all work to some extent, but in my experience they all fall short of the real king of the hill - Kroil.? You can get it in aerosol cans as Aero Kroil, and there is a version with silicone called Sili Kroil.? It can be hard to find and expensive - I paid just about $100 for a gallon can at my local NAPA the other day - but it seems to work when the others won't.? Apply it and let it soak in over a period of time, tapping or twisting or pulling each time you add more, and you may just find the arbor on the floor the next time you pass.? Patience is a virtue.
I've got to take the bed off my 17 year old Ranger to replace a frame crossmember, and will start the Kroil treatment on the bed bolts tomorrow.? Perhaps by sometime next week they'll all be loose, but I don't expect it to take that long.
You've heard the old Army saying?'If?it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If you can't pick it up, paint it.'? My version would be "If you want it loose, Kroil.? If you think you (or some other poor bastard) will need it loose again, Never Seez".
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
I believe I'd try a few other things before I started beating on the spindle...
WD-40 will work to loosen lightly rusted parts. Spray it several times a day, and give it a thump with a rubber mallet, deadbolt hammer, brass/bronze or lead hammer, and spray it again. Repeat several times a day. This has worked for me a bunch of times.
?Lotsa folks swear by ATF & acetone 50/50 as a penetrating oil. ATF is automatic transmission fluid, and brand or specification doesn't seem to matter.?
Relatively recently I've developed a fondness for PB Blaster. Seems to work better & faster when I have it. Use it the same way as described for WD-40, and the ATF & acetone likewise.?
If all else fails, or you're in a hurry, Jon's method will work, or you can switch methods. Persist, and something will break it loose eventually. Just be careful not to lose your temper. Don't ask.? :)
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 04:05:55 PM CDT, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote: Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.? Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.? Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free. Jon
|
The mt2 arbor is stuck in the spindle. I can't get it out to save my life. It's not a collet, it's the arbor to hold a cutter. If you take a look at the manual on () the arbor is shown on the last page, on the left side.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 5:53?PM Ralph Hulslander via <rhulslander= [email protected]> wrote: What do you mean by a "stuck arbor"? Do you have a stuck collet? If so, that is a common problem. If you search for stuck collet you will find lots of posts. I have at least two threads about the problem and my solution.
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote:
Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and
Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.?
Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to
pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I
applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to
the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.?
Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free.
Jon
|
Thanks Bill. I've done WD40, but just one. I think I'll try several times like you suggest.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 6:18?PM Bill in OKC too via <wmrmeyers= [email protected]> wrote: I believe I'd try a few other things before I started beating on the spindle...
WD-40 will work to loosen lightly rusted parts. Spray it several times a day, and give it a thump with a rubber mallet, deadbolt hammer, brass/bronze or lead hammer, and spray it again. Repeat several times a day. This has worked for me a bunch of times.
?Lotsa folks swear by ATF & acetone 50/50 as a penetrating oil. ATF is automatic transmission fluid, and brand or specification doesn't seem to matter.?
Relatively recently I've developed a fondness for PB Blaster. Seems to work better & faster when I have it. Use it the same way as described for WD-40, and the ATF & acetone likewise.?
If all else fails, or you're in a hurry, Jon's method will work, or you can switch methods. Persist, and something will break it loose eventually. Just be careful not to lose your temper. Don't ask.? :)
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 04:05:55 PM CDT, Jon Elson < elson@...> wrote:
On 6/25/24 15:31, eddembowski wrote: Has anyone had this problem? The machine is really in good
shape but I can't take the arbor off.
Yes, I had a Bridgeport mill with the M head and Brown and Sharpe #7 taper with an end mill holder rusted in place.? Using the mill as is, I built a set of U-shaped wedges to pry against the spindle nose and the holder.? Then, I applied gentle torch heat to the spindle, and finally ice to the holder.? Then, I started pounding on the drawbar.? Finally, there was a thud, and the holder broke free. Jon
|
I generally have more time than money. I'm maybe halfway through the 1st gallon of WD-40 I bought a decade ago. I'm also a cheap bastrich. ;) YMMV!
Lotsa ways to accomplish that sort of task. I'm also a hobbyist, and doing this stuff on a retirees limited budget and in confined spaces. Andctend to drool uncontrollably when I see truly better ways to do things...
But I generally have fun!
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 07:18:50 PM CDT, jmartin957 <jmartin957@...> via groups.io <jmartin957@...> wrote:
ATF & acetone, Liquid Wrench, PB B'laster, WD-40 all work to some extent, but in my experience they all fall short of the real king of the hill - Kroil.? You can get it in aerosol cans as Aero Kroil, and there is a version with silicone called Sili Kroil.? It can be hard to find and expensive - I paid just about $100 for a gallon can at my local NAPA the other day - but it seems to work when the others won't.? Apply it and let it soak in over a period of time, tapping or twisting or pulling each time you add more, and you may just find the arbor on the floor the next time you pass.? Patience is a virtue.
I've got to take the bed off my 17 year old Ranger to replace a frame crossmember, and will start the Kroil treatment on the bed bolts tomorrow.? Perhaps by sometime next week they'll all be loose, but I don't expect it to take that long.
You've heard the old Army saying?'If?it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If you can't pick it up, paint it.'? My version would be "If you want it loose, Kroil.? If you think you (or some other poor bastard) will need it loose again, Never Seez".
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
|
Is this an arbor that inserts into a hollow spindle? If so, have you verified there?is no draw bar or retaining bolt? Apologies if this isn't pertinent, but I've been fooled by a setscrew?hidden in a dirt covered hub of a wheel I wanted apart. BTW, Kroil had worked so well that when I removed the setscrew, the wheel slid off the rusted axle.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 7:08?PM Bill in OKC too via <wmrmeyers= [email protected]> wrote: I generally have more time than money. I'm maybe halfway through the 1st gallon of WD-40 I bought a decade ago. I'm also a cheap bastrich. ;) YMMV!
Lotsa ways to accomplish that sort of task. I'm also a hobbyist, and doing this stuff on a retirees limited budget and in confined spaces. Andctend to drool uncontrollably when I see truly better ways to do things...
But I generally have fun!
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
ATF & acetone, Liquid Wrench, PB B'laster, WD-40 all work to some extent, but in my experience they all fall short of the real king of the hill - Kroil.? You can get it in aerosol cans as Aero Kroil, and there is a version with silicone called Sili Kroil.? It can be hard to find and expensive - I paid just about $100 for a gallon can at my local NAPA the other day - but it seems to work when the others won't.? Apply it and let it soak in over a period of time, tapping or twisting or pulling each time you add more, and you may just find the arbor on the floor the next time you pass.? Patience is a virtue.
I've got to take the bed off my 17 year old Ranger to replace a frame crossmember, and will start the Kroil treatment on the bed bolts tomorrow.? Perhaps by sometime next week they'll all be loose, but I don't expect it to take that long.
You've heard the old Army saying?'If?it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If you can't pick it up, paint it.'? My version would be "If you want it loose, Kroil.? If you think you (or some other poor bastard) will need it loose again, Never Seez".
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
|
The Atlas milling machines have something like a drawbar, with a threaded shaft that goes through it. The manual posted earlier shows it as part number M1-576, and calls it a draw-in bar. It's on the last page, opposite the arbor. IIRC, it barely protruded fom the cover on the machine. So it's? possible that draw-in bar needs to be removed.
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 11:36:43 PM CDT, Rexarino <rexarino@...> wrote:
Is this an arbor that inserts into a hollow spindle? If so, have you verified there?is no draw bar or retaining bolt? Apologies if this isn't pertinent, but I've been fooled by a setscrew?hidden in a dirt covered hub of a wheel I wanted apart. BTW, Kroil had worked so well that when I removed the setscrew, the wheel slid off the rusted axle.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 7:08?PM Bill in OKC too via <wmrmeyers= [email protected]> wrote: I generally have more time than money. I'm maybe halfway through the 1st gallon of WD-40 I bought a decade ago. I'm also a cheap bastrich. ;) YMMV!
Lotsa ways to accomplish that sort of task. I'm also a hobbyist, and doing this stuff on a retirees limited budget and in confined spaces. Andctend to drool uncontrollably when I see truly better ways to do things...
But I generally have fun!
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
ATF & acetone, Liquid Wrench, PB B'laster, WD-40 all work to some extent, but in my experience they all fall short of the real king of the hill - Kroil.? You can get it in aerosol cans as Aero Kroil, and there is a version with silicone called Sili Kroil.? It can be hard to find and expensive - I paid just about $100 for a gallon can at my local NAPA the other day - but it seems to work when the others won't.? Apply it and let it soak in over a period of time, tapping or twisting or pulling each time you add more, and you may just find the arbor on the floor the next time you pass.? Patience is a virtue.
I've got to take the bed off my 17 year old Ranger to replace a frame crossmember, and will start the Kroil treatment on the bed bolts tomorrow.? Perhaps by sometime next week they'll all be loose, but I don't expect it to take that long.
You've heard the old Army saying?'If?it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If you can't pick it up, paint it.'? My version would be "If you want it loose, Kroil.? If you think you (or some other poor bastard) will need it loose again, Never Seez".
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
|
Jmartin957 has it right! "ATF & acetone, Liquid Wrench, PB B'laster, WD-40 all work to some extent, but in my experience they all fall short of the real king of the hill - Kroil." It's been my go-to unsticker for decades. Yes, it is expensive, but a
few ounce can is still affordable to have in the back of your kit. When all the other tricks fail, go to Kroil.
|
Yes, I had this problem Monday, when I went to use my mill after sitting for three years. I ended up putting a 1/2” rod in where the draw bar goes and gently hitting with a hammer. The arbor came out, there was no rust or crud, just a good tight fit.
I was careful to make sure the rod was larger diameter than the draw bar as to not mess up the threads.
Good luck.
Bob
Tucson, Az.?
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I've not had the other tricks fail, if you're patient enough, but they are slow. If you're in a hurry, or doing this stuff professionally by all means, buy the good stuff!
But if you're nearly broke, and can be patient...
;)
Says the guy who is chronically broke.?
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Wednesday, June 26, 2024 at 07:45:08 AM CDT, rfmarchi1 <rfmarchi@...> wrote:
Jmartin957 has it right! "ATF & acetone, Liquid Wrench, PB B'laster, WD-40 all work to some extent, but in my experience they all fall short of the real king of the hill - Kroil." It's been my go-to unsticker for decades. Yes, it is expensive, but a
few ounce can is still affordable to have in the back of your kit. When all the other tricks fail, go to Kroil.
|
After having one time problem with a stuck chuck, i always remove everything from the lathe and mill. No collet, no chuck, no arbor. Have never had issues since then.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes, I had this problem Monday, when I went to use my mill after sitting for three years. I ended up putting a 1/2” rod in where the draw bar goes and gently hitting with a hammer. The arbor came out, there was no rust or crud, just a good tight fit.
I was careful to make sure the rod was larger diameter than the draw bar as to not mess up the threads.
Good luck.
Bob
Tucson, Az.?
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If everyone did everything right, we would not have anything to talk about! Bite your tongue! Or keyboard, whatever!
?
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Wednesday, June 26, 2024 at 08:48:41 AM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
After having one time problem with a stuck chuck, i always remove everything from the lathe and mill. No collet, no chuck, no arbor. Have never had issues since then.?
Yes, I had this problem Monday, when I went to use my mill after sitting for three years. I ended up putting a 1/2” rod in where the draw bar goes and gently hitting with a hammer. The arbor came out, there was no rust or crud, just a good tight fit.
I was careful to make sure the rod was larger diameter than the draw bar as to not mess up the threads.
Good luck.
Bob
Tucson, Az.?
|
Andre's advice is spot on. In the production shops I've worked in every machine is stripped of all accessories and tooling at the end of each job unless the machine is dedicated to a particular job. Even then, chucks and collets are checked frequently for sticking.
One foreman in a university model shop even went so far as to require band saw blades to be removed after each job to assure that the correct blade was installed for the next job. In my shop I follow the same practice. Every time I approach a machine I make
a choice of what tooling and fixturing I should use rather than be tempted to use whatever happens to be on the machine. Of course common sense needs to apply - I leave a vice on the milling machine most of the time.?
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Interesting concept and a good practice to have.? I know that the aerospace industry sells off the tooling and equipment after each contract.? A wasteful practice, but it ensures quality control.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 28, 2024, at 11:30?AM, rfmarchi1 via groups.io <rfmarchi@...> wrote:
?
Andre's advice is spot on. In the production shops I've worked in every machine is stripped of all accessories and tooling at the end of each job unless the machine is dedicated to a particular job. Even then, chucks and collets are checked frequently for sticking.
One foreman in a university model shop even went so far as to require band saw blades to be removed after each job to assure that the correct blade was installed for the next job. In my shop I follow the same practice. Every time I approach a machine I make
a choice of what tooling and fixturing I should use rather than be tempted to use whatever happens to be on the machine. Of course common sense needs to apply - I leave a vice on the milling machine most of the time.?
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Several times I have had a MT2 part (end mill holder, drill chuck, etc.) stuck? in the spindle of my Atlas mill.? Each time I was able to beat it out from the back with a 1/2" round rod and a hammer.? It was not pretty.? I worried about damaging the spindle bearings.
The problem was caused by me tightening the draw bar too much, not from leaving the part in the spindle.? You want the draw bar just snug - don't honk down on it.? I insert the MT2 taper, give it a moderate tap with a lead hammer, then tighten the draw bar just snug - not much more than hand tightening.? MT2 tapers have a propensity for getting stuck.
Revised to correct a mistake... spindle not arbor.
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Bill in OKC too
Bob W.
Jim F
Jon M