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Re: Looking for Atlas Corrugated # 2661 SantaFe Coaches
Paul M Dickash
Hello George,
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How you doing? I need at least one boxed A1G car because it is for my collection....Got to be one of the few SF pieces i dont have....Was shocked when i realized it the other day when i was going thru my stuff....The second one for running, i couldn't care less if its a reissue or not but the one i need in the original box and so on...thanks Paul -----Original Message-----
From: George Irwin <gji@...> To: a1g <a1g@...> Sent: Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:51 pm Subject: Re: [a1g] Looking for Atlas Corrugated # 2661 SantaFe Coaches Paul, if they don't have to be Atlas First Generation cars specifically, I believe these were re-issued by Arnold/Rivarossi some years later in unlighted form. I'll try to take a look and see if I have any documentation of this. Cheers, George (list owner) -----Original Message----- From: paul <atsf359@...> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Looking for Atlas Corrugated # 2661 SantaFe Coaches
George Irwin
Paul, if they don't have to be Atlas First Generation cars specifically, I believe these were re-issued by Arnold/Rivarossi some years later in unlighted form. I'll try to take a look and see if I have any documentation of this.
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Cheers, George (list owner) -----Original Message-----
From: paul <atsf359@...> |
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Looking for Atlas Corrugated # 2661 SantaFe Coaches
paul
Hello Group,
I am looking for at least one but i would like two of the old Atlas Rivarossi corrugated coaches in Santa-fe.....Boxes would be nice but i would take one without if its in really nice shape to get me going....I have looked all the usual places and no luck on the cars.....I have one of the baggage / dormitory cars and a Observation car....Its for my collection..Not looking for runners...If you have some extra or a know where i might be able to find on i would very much appreciate it......thank you very much Paul |
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Re: ATLAS #2491 50' Reefer MODX
In a message dated 12/11/2011 17:48:04 Central Standard Time,
ddd_67735@... writes: I was checking out some boxes of Atlas train cars I found this one #2491 50' Reefer MODX..It has a white label, on the back it says made in Italy, an has these numbers 12583-1-1970..What can you tell me about this car..Thanks Don Hi Don, Sorry for the very tardy response. That particular car is actually an Atlas European release which was released in North America as #3243 and, as such, is part of the second generation of Atlas cars here. There was not a total coincidence of generations between Europe and North America, it seems. Although your car was made by Rivarossi in Italy, the releases here were made by Atlas themselves in Hillside N.J. If you go to the "files" section of the group, you will see a listing there called "Atlas Rivarossi 1971-1972" by Ola Ahlstrom. Go there and scroll down to "page 3 car.JPG". There you will find your car. Regards, Doug |
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Re: New to Group - Have numerous A1G pieces
Hi George, Thank you for your prompt response and your help. Thanks!
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DR Larkin To: a1g@... From: gji@... Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 04:40:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [a1g] New to Group - Have numerous A1G pieces Hi Dave, What you have there is what I consider to be among the first releases of the "Atlas Second Generation," a "beer can" tank car. It's not in the correct box as the Frontier Chemical is an A1G 40 foot single dome chemical tank car. The catalog number for the Diamond Chemical beer can tank car is 2464 and you're correct in that it is in the same group as the other 2460s. Cheers, George A1G List Owner -----Original Message-----
From: commodore_dave <drlarkin222@...> Sent: Nov 26, 2011 8:31 PM To: a1g@... Subject: [a1g] New to Group - Have numerous A1G pieces I am new to the group and am trying to find out infomation about my N scale train and rolling stock I collected from late 1969 to early 1972. All of my piece arein their orginal boxes and most have only been on a track once so they are in Mint condition. I have had them stored in an old suitcase since they were accumulated and they have been in the back of my closet in a dry climate. (Denver, CO) I have about thre dozen Atlas 1st generation pieces amonst my collection of about 110 pieces. (The other are AHM, ConCor, Minitrix, Bachman and "Postage Stamp.) I have been doing some online research in preparation for liquidation of my collection. I have one piece for which I can not find or locate any information. It is a Atlas Chemical Tank car. It is in the original box I purchased it in. The box says it is Atlas #2262 Frontier Chemical Tank Car. However, the car in the case is actually looks like a 26' chemical tank more like the #2461,2462,2463 series. The car I have Has grey Tank with a green frame, platform and ladders. It's markings are for "Diamond Chemicals" with a reporting number of GATX 7923. I would appreciate any information anyone has on this piece. If anyone wnat any other infomation on othere pieces I have please feel free to ask. Thanks! ------------------------------------ --From the A1G discussion list --Brought to you by George in Ellison Park, NY --To unsubscribe, send email to: a1g-unsubscribe@... Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: New to Group - Have numerous A1G pieces
T Meserole
I show the Diamond "beer can" tanker as product number 2564.
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I show that as a confirmed number, which means I have seen that number used in a catalog or other printed material from Atlas. I see a road number of GATX 7923 or 7823 based on the photo I have. I do not own the car. I hope that helps. George Irwin's Atlas 1st Generation site may have a scan of the right catalog page. Tom in Kansas On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:31 PM, commodore_dave <drlarkin222@...> wrote:
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Re: early days sales
George Irwin
My guess is that there were thousands if not tens of thousands of pieces of individual rolling stock items made over the A1G years. Unlike today's "limited runs," cars were made to stock; and there were a lot more places to which stock was sent: department stores, discount stores, sporting goods stores, even a drug store with a hobby section not far from where I used to live in New Jersey.
In addition, post-A1G the same tooling was marketed by Rivarossi and then Arnold. That adds more copies to the mix. Contrast that with today, where it's possible that only a few hundred copies of an item are made as regular runs. I've heard it said that sometimes there are only around 100 (!) pieces made of a specific locomotive paint scheme/road number combination. If you do the math, no wonder prices are where they are. Track piece counts have probably reached into the millions by now... Cheers, George A1G List Owner |
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Re: New to Group - Have numerous A1G pieces
George Irwin
Hi Dave,
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What you have there is what I consider to be among the first releases of the "Atlas Second Generation," a "beer can" tank car. It's not in the correct box as the Frontier Chemical is an A1G 40 foot single dome chemical tank car. The catalog number for the Diamond Chemical beer can tank car is 2464 and you're correct in that it is in the same group as the other 2460s. Cheers, George A1G List Owner -----Original Message-----
From: commodore_dave <drlarkin222@...> |
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New to Group - Have numerous A1G pieces
I am new to the group and am trying to find out infomation about my N scale train and rolling stock I collected from late 1969 to early 1972. All of my piece arein their orginal boxes and most have only been on a track once so they are in Mint condition. I have had them stored in an old suitcase since they were accumulated and they have been in the back of my closet in a dry climate. (Denver, CO)
I have about thre dozen Atlas 1st generation pieces amonst my collection of about 110 pieces. (The other are AHM, ConCor, Minitrix, Bachman and "Postage Stamp.) I have been doing some online research in preparation for liquidation of my collection. I have one piece for which I can not find or locate any information. It is a Atlas Chemical Tank car. It is in the original box I purchased it in. The box says it is Atlas #2262 Frontier Chemical Tank Car. However, the car in the case is actually looks like a 26' chemical tank more like the #2461,2462,2463 series. The car I have Has grey Tank with a green frame, platform and ladders. It's markings are for "Diamond Chemicals" with a reporting number of GATX 7923. I would appreciate any information anyone has on this piece. If anyone wnat any other infomation on othere pieces I have please feel free to ask. Thanks! |
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Re: early days sales
I'm sure there were records kept back then for accounting purposes.
It's just a matter of if they were kept through all these years. Prolly not. Dennis is right though. There was a LOT. Especially track as Atlas track was arguably the best what with easier radius switches and such. Atlas' standard switches had a radius through them of 19" whereas a lot of the other brands were really sharp radius even down to, like 7". And Atlas always had #6 switches available and, back then, double slips and three ways. Oh, and let's not forget the lighted bumpers! \:^) Doug |
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Re: early days sales
I wonder if they even know; there had to have been a LOT, based on the number I see still floating around in trade & sales. Think about the number that sold Atlas; from Dime Stores to Hardware Stores, and how much stuff used to sit on shelves.
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A WHOLE lot... Dennis -- Dennis C. Kamper dckuk@... ---- MIKE <goldrod_1@...> wrote: Has there ever been information from Atlas as to how many pieces of N scale items that were ever made in those days of the 1st generation. I have always wonder how many feet of track or how many boxcars were sold in those early days of N scale. |
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Atlas coal mine with a car the never was
MIKE
While looking at the differences between the original box and the orange box that Atlas kits were packed in, I noticed example of a freight car paint scheme they never released. On the orange box photo there is a KO&G hopper under the discharge shoot. BAchmann and maybe AHM had this scheme.
Michael Bishop |
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Re: A1G Website: Ore Car Page Posted
Randy Bezet
Doug,
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Thanks again for the information about The Atlas/Rivarossi relationship. Something else I found out about the old Atlas n structure kits. A look at Walthers 2011 N scale catalog revealed some of the Atlas/Pola molds in the hands of Faller. They are very expensive when available. It would have been great if we had? Walthers catalogs available from the early n scale days. They are so good at documenting everything that was made at the time of manufacture. ?Walthers, If my memory is correct, presented their first n scale catalog around 1976!? Thanks again! sincerely, Randy B. --- On Mon, 4/25/11, dgosha@... <dgosha@...> wrote:
From: dgosha@... <dgosha@...> Subject: Re: [a1g] Re: A1G Website: Ore Car Page Posted To: a1g@... Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 8:08 PM ? In a message dated 4/22/11 1:11:13 AM !!!First Boot!!!, bezetr75@... writes: Wow DougI believe the last of the relationship between Atlas and Rivarossi to be the very early seventies like 1971 or 1972. The last locomotive Rivarossi made for Atlas was the Cow and Calf (SW1500 but really SW1200 with the wrong roof profile). These were probably all built within the years mentioned. The latest date on any of my Rivarossi-built Atlas passenger cars is September of 1971 for my Santa Fe combine and diner cars. The paper inserts on these have the blockier logo which was the same as the blockier Rivarossi logo they started using at the same time. The latest date on any of my Rivarossi-built Atlas freight cars is October of 1968! This is when the transistion began for Atlas to build their own freight cars here in the US as demonstrated by the latter half of some of the car series being built here and the first half, a little earlier, in Italy. You can read about this on George's site. Some cars after this were, once again, made by RoCo in Austria (the more unusual log flats, container flats, giant 96' tankers and Hi-cubes,etc) into the seventies. All of this conspires to indicate the ore cars were NOT made by Rivarossi as the 1968 date is about when the first kits appeared and the "ATLAS USA" molded into the carbody doesn't follow them being made in Italy either. I realize my data may not be completely definitive as I am basing it strictly on my own collection and my memory of what happened back then but I believe it to be fairly accurate. There was so much "mixing and matching" between European manufacturers and US importers, though, that you can never be absolutely certain. US importers grabbing any manufacturers output, no matter how small, just to be able to have something a little different than the other importers for a sales edge, was rampant. Doug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Atlas vs. Trix Ore Cars
umtrr
No, it's not the latest grudge match... but some more data on what's been the hot topic (relatively speaking!) on this list.
A friend of mine had a Trix ore car lettered for the Bessemer and Lake Erie on his layout. He also had an Atlas ore car for the Missabe on the layout. I was able to compare both at close range. They're not the same tooling. The underside is different (beside having different names and countries of origin stamped) and there are some small differences in the "machinery" that is tooled into the sides of the cars. Now let's see how long it takes me to snap photos and post them... Cheers, George (your list-owner) |
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Re: A1G Website: Ore Car Page Posted
In a message dated 4/22/11 1:11:13 AM !!!First Boot!!!, bezetr75@...
writes: Wow DougI believe the last of the relationship between Atlas and Rivarossi to be the very early seventies like 1971 or 1972. The last locomotive Rivarossi made for Atlas was the Cow and Calf (SW1500 but really SW1200 with the wrong roof profile). These were probably all built within the years mentioned. The latest date on any of my Rivarossi-built Atlas passenger cars is September of 1971 for my Santa Fe combine and diner cars. The paper inserts on these have the blockier logo which was the same as the blockier Rivarossi logo they started using at the same time. The latest date on any of my Rivarossi-built Atlas freight cars is October of 1968! This is when the transistion began for Atlas to build their own freight cars here in the US as demonstrated by the latter half of some of the car series being built here and the first half, a little earlier, in Italy. You can read about this on George's site. Some cars after this were, once again, made by RoCo in Austria (the more unusual log flats, container flats, giant 96' tankers and Hi-cubes,etc) into the seventies. All of this conspires to indicate the ore cars were NOT made by Rivarossi as the 1968 date is about when the first kits appeared and the "ATLAS USA" molded into the carbody doesn't follow them being made in Italy either. I realize my data may not be completely definitive as I am basing it strictly on my own collection and my memory of what happened back then but I believe it to be fairly accurate. There was so much "mixing and matching" between European manufacturers and US importers, though, that you can never be absolutely certain. US importers grabbing any manufacturers output, no matter how small, just to be able to have something a little different than the other importers for a sales edge, was rampant. Doug |
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Re: A1G Website: Ore Car Page Posted
Randy Bezet
Wow Doug????
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This is interesting and complex! The key seems to be when did Atlas?stop making anything with??Rivarossi ?!?Do you have an approximate date when Atlas/Rivarossi severed their relationship? It would seem to be as soon as Con-Cor took over marketing/distribution of Rivarossi N scale! This would be a good date to back track on. It seems that Atlas/Rivarossi may have had a longer relationship with each other than we first thought.?If? Atlas sent unpainted shells back to Rivarossi to finish- how to identify them ect- if Atlas stamped their name on them. We need some sample ore cars to evaluate from this batch.? It may be very difficult to identify them!? A neat mystery to follow. Thanks Doug. sincerely Randy? B. --- On Thu, 4/21/11, dgosha@... <dgosha@...> wrote:
From: dgosha@... <dgosha@...> Subject: Re: [a1g] Re: A1G Website: Ore Car Page Posted To: a1g@... Date: Thursday, April 21, 2011, 3:24 PM ? In a message dated 4/21/11 2:46:26 PM !!!First Boot!!!, bezetr75@... writes: Geoge,There are several possibilities. It could be that Atlas requested Rivarossi to put "ATLAS USA on the cars" instead of the usual "ATLAS". This is unlikely, though, and I believe these cars were actually molded in the US. The kits were first and they were strictly a USA venture. Atlas could have molded the basic carbody in the US and then sent them to Rivarossi to be finished (lettered, trucks installed, etc.). Again, based on the kits, this seems unlikely because the kit bodies were lettered although Atlas still could have shipped them to Italy to have them lettered. It must be remembered that, at the time Atlas first started to produce freight cars on their own out of the US, they installed trucks from both RoCo and Rivarossi (there are indentifying characteristics) but they always had "ATLAS USA" on the bottom. If somebody could just locate an ore car with Rivarossi markings on it, the situation could become clearer. Or, maybe not \:^) The original cabooses are easy enough to identify because, back then, even though RoCo made cabooses for several importers, they were always slightly different from one importer to another. The Atlas cabooses have three, closely spaced, windows on each side. The trouble comes with the cupola transfer cabooses and these extended across both the first and second generations of cars. A collector just has to become familiar with the appearance and numbers of the cars to differentiate. The bay window transfer cabooses are strictly A!G. Doug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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