Scott,
must ahve better google foo....??
That is only a sample.? The trick is the 8073 was also called SC/MP-II.? Also helps
to try all three designations as National changed that over the years.
I have the 8a600 (the pmos first version), the sc/mp-II and the ins8073.
Interesting chip but slow.
Allison
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Bill:
Happy to share and happy to bring back some fond memories for you.
The wire wrapping was very tedious and it wasn't just the one INS8073 board. There were three others that were wire-wrapped as well. I did't realize that RS had charged US$25 for a spool of #30 AWG Kynar wire. Yikes! Before they closed stores a few years ago, I grabbed about 4 spools for about US$3 each. I don't do much wire-wrapping these days but I do use the #30 AWG Kynar wire for rework and repairs. :)
I have an 1802 in my parts bins but never put one together nor have I done any programming on one. I've thought about it on and off over the past year, so I may at some time do so. :)
I have Lee's Z80 + SIO card set. No front panel. It seems to work well with CP/M. Josh did a phenomenal job on the firmware and software.
Peace and blessings
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Pretty cool, Scott. A few years before you did this, I built (from RE) the COSMAC Elf computer. I didn't have friends who'd give me parts and tools, so I bought mine. I was a bit older, and already employed by the USAF as a photographer. I also had way to many other hobbies. This was late in 1976 or early 1977, or maybe as late as early 1978. Radio Shack had the best price I could find at the time, I believe it was $15 for the wire wrap tool, and $25 for a roll of blue wire. That was quite a chunk of my pay as an A1C in the USAF at the time, so only the one color. The Elf only had 256 bytes of ram, and no rom. I got it wired up, while waiting for enough money to buy the ram, which at that time was $300 for the 8 chips needed. That was most of my monthly salary. Then there was a substantial price drop, down to $100 for the necessary chips. Got them, installed them, and discovered a wiring error that let the magic smoke out of the new ram chips. My friend Jim, who was also interested in computers and had a camera repair shop in Ft. Walton Beach, traded some of his spare camera repair tools for the fried board, and soon thereafter my wife bought me a TRS80 Model 1, Level 1, 4K machine. I made some upgrades on it, over the years, but never again built a computer from scratch. I did do some programming, for a few more years, but eventually became more of an appliance user. I've "built" several PC's in the past couple of decades, but buying parts that plug in, and maybe have a screw or two to hold them in place is not the same thing.
I've been out of work for several weeks for medical issues, should be going back next week, I hope. Once I have some more income, I am seriously considering building one of Lee's Membership Card CPM machines. That is the last OS I did any serious programming in. The Z89 I was using CP/M (and HDOS) on was a kit built by my FIL, not me. I've not built anything except the odd PC now and again in at least 30 years. Reading your blog reminded me again of some of the fun I've been missing.
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Friday, January 10, 2020, 12:21:42 PM CST, SCOTT VITALE <scotty264b@...> wrote:
Paul:
You mentioned SC/MP; I used to have an SC/MP (INS8060) development board. I'm not sure where it ever went to. In my late teen years, I was given an INS8073 sample, which was the successor to the SC/MP (INS8060). The INS8073 had 2.5K of mask ROM with NIBL (NATIONAL Industrial BASIC Language) built in. I designed a whole computer around it, software and all. It was housed in a COMPUTER PRODUCTS I/O chassis and used multiple add-in boards that plugged into the back-plane. I acquired a dot-matrix printer that Larry from THE LITTLE COMPUTER STORE (S. Florida) retired and let me have for $100. I took it to college with me and wrote a word processor using the tiny BASIC. I recently pulled the main board out of storage, which is all I kept from the whole computer. Since there is little to no information on "the net" for the INS8073, I decided to document the project and posted a blog on it. You may be interested.?
Peace and blessings.
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Paul:
You mentioned SC/MP; I used to have an SC/MP (INS8060) development board. I'm not sure where it ever went to. In my late teen years, I was given an INS8073 sample, which was the successor to the SC/MP (INS8060). The INS8073 had 2.5K of mask ROM with NIBL (NATIONAL Industrial BASIC Language) built in. I designed a whole computer around it, software and all. It was housed in a COMPUTER PRODUCTS I/O chassis and used multiple add-in boards that plugged into the back-plane. I acquired a dot-matrix printer that Larry from THE LITTLE COMPUTER STORE (S. Florida) retired and let me have for $100. I took it to college with me and wrote a word processor using the tiny BASIC. I recently pulled the main board out of storage, which is all I kept from the whole computer. Since there is little to no information on "the net" for the INS8073, I decided to document the project and posted a blog on it. You may be interested.?
Peace and blessings.
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Oh great.?
Look forward to that PCB board!
I played with the 6800 a bit, after cutting my teeth on the SC/MP.
Best Regards
Paul
Sent from Samsung tablet.
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ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote: Of the possible member cards the one that sorta needs to be explored is
the 6502 and maybe 6800 or 6809.
When you look back the 1802, 8080/Z80 and 6502 reflect a significant number
and variations of machines. The three also reflect very different
programming mindsets. Indeed, I'm working with someone on just such a thing. It's a Membership Card for the 6502, 6800, and 6809. The Front Panel cards are all the same; the CPU boards are necessarily different. The challenge so far is writing the software for each. Lee Hart -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in. -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Of the possible member cards the one that sorta needs to be explored is the 6502
and maybe 6800 or 6809.??
When you look back the 1802, 8080/z80 and 6502 reflect a significant number
and variations of machines.? Also the three also reflect very different programming
mindsets.
Allison
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I cut my teeth on 370's and EBCDIC was all I knew for years.? ASCII seemed like they were just trying to be different!? I still remember "A" as C1 "a" was some other thing but who needed lower case anyway.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Z80MC@groups.io <Z80MC@groups.io> on behalf of ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...>
Sent: December 3, 2019 11:43 AM
To: Z80MC@groups.io <Z80MC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Z80MC] An idea!
?
Then there is EBCDIC....
Some machine still do BCD math!? (1806, 8080, 8085. z80).
Its how the logic is organized as a BCD computer was done (several times)
but from a logic reduction standpoint a binary math solution is few gates
to get the task done.
IF we ignore that than any number system is doable.
That's also factored from the 70s where I did control interface logic for
a 8 channel tape deck that had three level logic!? If that hurts, consider
that a spindle?has a clutch that can be forward, reverse or tension, or
brake that was?on, off, or drag.? Really!? So Trinary logic of levels had
to be reduced to a two bit code.
Allison
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Then there is EBCDIC....
Some machine still do BCD math!? (1806, 8080, 8085. z80).
Its how the logic is organized as a BCD computer was done (several times)
but from a logic reduction standpoint a binary math solution is few gates
to get the task done.
IF we ignore that than any number system is doable.
That's also factored from the 70s where I did control interface logic for
a 8 channel tape deck that had three level logic!? If that hurts, consider
that a spindle?has a clutch that can be forward, reverse or tension, or
brake that was?on, off, or drag.? Really!? So Trinary logic of levels had
to be reduced to a two bit code.
Allison
|
Re: Confirming Group Email Address Change
bill rowe wrote: If you get this you are subscribed to the z80 Membership Card User Group
mailing list at Z80MC@groups.io Congratulations, Bill! It worked. Now I'm off to update my manuals. :-) Lee -- ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep you in business? -- Hunter Cressall -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Confirming Group Email Address Change
If you get this you are subscribed to the z80 Membership Card User Group mailing list at Z80MC@groups.io
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Renaming the Group: [Z8MC] Z80 Not Z8
I'm going to pull the trigger on changing the group email and name to Z80MC from Z8MC.? I'm sending this out before the change and i'll send a confirmation later.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Z8MC@groups.io <Z8MC@groups.io> on behalf of bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...>
Sent: December 1, 2019 11:54 AM
To: Z8MC@groups.io <Z8MC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Z8MC] Z80 Not Z8
?
Agreed.? Lee had asked me to change it and i was waiting for things to settle down.? I'll try to do it this afternoon.
From: Z8MC@groups.io <Z8MC@groups.io> on behalf of Jean-Claude Wippler <jc@...>
Sent: December 1, 2019 11:33 AM
To: Z8MC@groups.io <Z8MC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Z8MC] Z80 Not Z8
?
A rename would be useful, the current "Z8MC" naming is mighty confusing, IMO.
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Agreed.? Lee had asked me to change it and i was waiting for things to settle down.? I'll try to do it this afternoon.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Z8MC@groups.io <Z8MC@groups.io> on behalf of Jean-Claude Wippler <jc@...>
Sent: December 1, 2019 11:33 AM
To: Z8MC@groups.io <Z8MC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Z8MC] Z80 Not Z8
?
A rename would be useful, the current "Z8MC" naming is mighty confusing, IMO.
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A rename would be useful, the current "Z8MC" naming is mighty confusing, IMO.
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Sources are on the net.? Look for Walnut creek CP/M CDrom.
http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/ftp.php?b=cpm/Software/WalnutCD
OR? the SIG/M acrchives (all PD with source):
http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/ftp.php?b=cpm%2FSoftware%2FWalnutCD%2Fsimtel%2Fsigm
THe home for finding that? and more is:? ?http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/
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Scott, I never put a lot of time and effort into perfecting XModem operations.? I got it running and moved on. I don't have the time for this.? For example, I've spent the last 2 nights going to sleep at 2am, waking at 7. Tonight I really wanted to get to bed by 11, but it's nearly 1am already... why?
On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 2:41:40 PM EST, scotty264b@... <scotty264b@...> wrote:
Josh:
You may want to provide the newer version of XMODEM on the DISK-A.BIN image since assembles to only 4KB in size rather than the 8KB that is currently provided.?
?
TheXMODEM.cfg file you recently provided works correctly but why tell XMODEM that the Z80 is running at 2MHz instead of 4MHz?
?
I have attached the ZIP'd V2.4 XMODEM.COM executable ans source code to this message.
?
Peace and blessings.
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Josh:
You may want to provide the newer version of XMODEM on the DISK-A.BIN image since assembles to only 4KB in size rather than the 8KB that is currently provided.?
?
TheXMODEM.cfg file you recently provided works correctly but why tell XMODEM that the Z80 is running at 2MHz instead of 4MHz?
?
I have attached the ZIP'd V2.4 XMODEM.COM executable ans source code to this message.
?
Peace and blessings.
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Hi Lee:
Thanks for replying. I was looking for the source code for XMODEM. The executable is already provided in the DISK-A.BIN image and it is the "Martin Eberhard" version. There are a few source code files out there called "XMODEM" but Martin's seems to be much easier to configure for different hardware. As for being "unconfigured", it uses its program defaults unless an XMODEM.CFG file is provided.
I'm also looking into KERMIT since KERMIT will take multiple file names for sending and receiving. I managed to get KERMIT running under SCO XENIX a few weeks ago. I can use the Linux version of KERMIT to interface with the XENIX virtual machine and all works well. There is a V4.11 available as source code and HEX overlays for CP/M. The HEATH H8 config overlay seems like it will work with a little modification because it directly supports the 8250 ACE.
Peace and blessings.
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Re: Single-stepping without FRONT PANEL
Scott,
Yes, I think that should work.? Just follow the schematic portions of the front panel for the timer interrupt.
Please understand that the single step feature works as follows: -Hijack the Interrupt -Wait for a timer interrupt to "start the clock" -Wait for just enough cycles to pass so that when control is returned to the user program, there's only time for 1 instruction before the next interrupt -Return to the user program (there's only time for 1 instruction to execute) -On the following interrupt (after execute 1 instruction) display registers, restore normal timer interrupt.
Now, I'm not sure what I'm doing with HW_LIST, sorry, I can't remember this level of detail, but you can look through the source code and see if it's being tested during single step for feature enable/disable.
Cheers,
Josh
On Monday, November 25, 2019, 4:35:38 p.m. CST, scotty264b@... <scotty264b@...> wrote:
Hello All:
I have Z80MC + SIO card. No FP.
If I wish to implement the single-step feature of the ZMC monitor, is it as easy as providing a 1KHz interrupt (derived and thus sync'd with Z80 clock) and changing the "HW_LIST" at memory address 0xFF95 to 0x03 (SIO + FP)?
Can I use single-step in the console mode or must I use the FP?
Thank you.
Peace and blessings.
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Hi Scott,
XModem by Martin Eberhard uses a config file.? The DISK-A image at Lee's website has recently (Nov 2019) been updated with the correct config file to use SIO address.
SURVEY, I don't know this program.? It was just something found with CP/M so I included it.
MON-32K is an early version of my monitor that I used on my IMSAI, it won't work with the Z80MC, it should just be deleted. Sorry, I certainly didn't do a very good job at cleaning / testing the CP/M image files.? Little time, many projects, I hope you understand.
Cheers,
Josh
On Monday, November 25, 2019, 4:35:37 p.m. CST, scotty264b@... <scotty264b@...> wrote:
Hello All:
I have the Z80MC w/ SIO (no FP).
I know there are some Z80MC specific programs supplied within the DISK-A.BIN image but I see no source code for them.
I see no files populating the "Files" section of this group, how does one obtain the source code for:
XMODEM modified for Z80MC SIO support
SURVEY
MON-32K (which does not work on my Z80MC)
Peace and blessings.
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Bill in OKC too
Paul Bigwood
Lee Hart