Re: using SDCC and stdio to Z80MC w/ CP/M 2.2....
Mark,
?
That is the exact one I have. got it because it was small and had capability
matching some of my larger machines.? Indeed nice kit.? Still putting?
my usual work stuff on it.? Turbo Pascal and C wonderful IDEs.
?
Older machines include a much modified NorthStar* horizon.? That's S100,
10mhz z80, 256K ram with MMU, 512K ramdisk, 512K romdisk, Z-system,?
multiple smart disk controllers for Floppies and hard disk.??
?
The ones I use most are Kaypro 4/84 with Handyman, advent turbo rom
with personality card,? and 1mb Ramdisk.
?
AmplroLB+? Full z80 with 64K, SIO and SCSI to a 45mb 3.5" fujitsu
Runs P2DOS variant of CP/M.
?
Most are still being used as they are application loaded and have been in
my collection for over 4 decades.
?
Allison
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Re: using SDCC and stdio to Z80MC w/ CP/M 2.2....
The z180-based pocket computer (I have an essentially identical one called the "") is indeed a neat bit of kit.? Plenty of disk space, and so wonderfully fast compared to the 4 MHz Cromemco I spent so much time on the the 80s.? I wrote the BIOS on that so that it would support multiple terminals; a ^C typed at the command line while at the CCP prompt would transfer control to that terminal, and I had four of them of various types scattered throughout my little two-bedroom apartment.? Not quite a multi-user system, but close enough for a sole occupant.
?
I keep the SC131 on the large USB hub that my laptop plugs into when I'm in town (nearly all the time now, finally).? Often, when I need a break, I'll power it up and play with the tools I used then.? Frankly, I'm not convinced that my productivity is that much better with modern tools.? OK, a sophisticated IDE like Visual Studio on a 4k monitor does bring something to the table, for sure, but for embedded work a purely text-based world is still eminently functional.? At that time, I used Turbo Pascal a lot, because it was very fast, was a capable language, and the editor matched the WordStar control character set that my left hand knew (and still knows) so well.
?
I never used C on CP/M, but now I'm inspired to give it a try.? And I agree with your assessment of the Andy Laird book - it's still sitting on the shelf behind me.
~~
Mark
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Re: using SDCC and stdio to Z80MC w/ CP/M 2.2....
yes, indeed, SDCC is PC based, and may not be to the taste of those wishing to be period-accurate and develop on the target systems.? I imagine the vintage compilers are all K&R style?? I should try it out that way to appreciate the feel.? I did trivially hack the rom to make the power-on default 115200 bps.
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My coming to this was somewhat roundabout, as I had used SDCC for other things before.? I needed to adapt crt0 for the board, and malloc didn't act the way I wanted, and then I got carried away with stdio (well, the missing FILE* stuff), hence the post if others had curiousity and wanted to save the trouble.? One can enjoy taking such excursions when it is not a paid effort for a client; lol!
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The generated code can be quite fluffy.? I guess that's what you get for the conveniences of the language on a 8-bitter.? (can't imagine the generated code for a 6502)
?
I punted on scanf for the time being, but now I am distracted by thoughts of supporting the bank switching mechanism.? I suspect I would need to make some tool to plan linkage from the collection of object modules, and possibly generating thunks in non-paged memory.? Seems like a graph theory problem.
Anyway, some short term work popped up last week that will absorb me for the next 4 weeks, so I'll have to wait a bit for all that, alas.
?
I'll check out the book you mention -- CP/M is definitely new to me.? Fortunately systems' surface area tended to be smaller back then.
cheers!
-dave
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Re: using SDCC and stdio to Z80MC w/ CP/M 2.2....
That whole process looks to be all PC based/biased.?
?
All C code for CP/M? and 8085/z80 I do is using native tools
on CP/M systems.? There more than enough disk (uSD) and
ram to?run all the native CP/M tools and languages from
off the net.
?
Based on the code source I have SMC (small-C), Hitech-C,
and BDS-C as the usual tools.??
?
For the AmproLB+ using BDS-C:
?
C0> RT11.C
C0> RTMISC.C
C0> RTFILES.C
C0> CLINK RT11 RTMISC RTFILES
?
To run it
C0> RT11
?
Takes less than two minutes to do all that.
The Membership card is a little slower as the uSD is slower than
the AmproLB+ SCSI disk.? Both are running the Z80 at 4mhz.
It's possible to run the Z80 faster? as 6 and 10mhz parts are
not hard to find.
?
For faster the same task on a Z180 at 20mhz takes less time than
to type the command lines.? ?That's a? SC131...??
https://smallcomputercentral.com/sc131-z180-pocket-computer/
?
?
Allison
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Re: using SDCC and stdio to Z80MC w/ CP/M 2.2....
Dave,
?
Started using C back late '79 using Ron Cains SmallC and soon after BDS C
natively on Z80 system. Also have HighTec-C and Nevada C.? Never
thought to use SDCC.? However all of the compilers have STDIO which
for CP/M is a ship that calls BDOS and BIOS for IO.? the BIOS provides
both raw and cooked interfaces and BDOS has resources that with some
translation gives standard C calls for disk IO.
?
If your not using CP/M then you have to create your own filesystem
and IO system.? Likely more work than desired.? My solution for
standalone systems was to put CP/M and needed utilities in
Eprom and tread that in the bios as a read only disk (Romdisk).
?
Malloc is maybe internal for the compiler as most all CP/M systems are
flat memory space typically 32 to? 60 kbytes and single threaded.
?
Including the Kaypros I have 17 systems running CP/M.? I've been doing
that since 1977.?
?
FYI the best book on using C and building CP/M software is
Andy Johnson-Laird, The programmers CP/M Handbook.??
?
?
Allison
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using SDCC and stdio to Z80MC w/ CP/M 2.2....
Hello group! I did build my Z80 Membership Card, and it has been some fun. ?I intended to use it as a basic Z80 cpu board in an unrelated project, but figured I should play with it in its native form before changing the firmware. ?I'm impressed with the work that clearly went into it.
?
I did not get to use CP/M back in the day since it was expensive, so it was fun to explore now. ?It's amazing what we considered a system back then; lol.
?
While I can code in assembly, I prefer to do things in C where possible, and I'm using SDCC. ?I had to set up a CRT0 that was appropriate for CP/M and the Z80MC in particular. ?SDCC provides a pretty rich implementation of libc, but stdio is lacking since file i/o is system dependent. ?So I did what any programmer would do and implemented the parts of stdio for doing the FILE* stuff, e.g. fopen(), fclose(), fread/write/printf, etc. ?(and malloc seemed broken so I adjusted for that.)
?
Anyway, I don't know if anyone has interest in coding in C for CP/M, but if so I'm putting some files in the file space. ?This includes stdio-cpm-example-20241207a.zip, which contains a demo project exercising the library, along with the libs and headers for writing your own stuff. ?If you just want to run the test program first without building, there is also a disk image STDIOEX.BIN that can be mounted via CPMDISKS.TXT (I replace DISK-D.BIN with that), and then you can run STDIOEX.COM directly from it. ?It will printf some stuff, get keyboard input, and open, read, and write files showing stuff along the way. ?The source 'main.c' should be useful in showing how to construct a program. (I mean, it's standard C, but the headers and parsing the command line is different.) ?There are also the build scripts so you can see how to set up for assembling, compiling, and linking. ?You're on your own for installing SDCC! ?I think you can manage! ?It's easy! ?You might like cpmtools for manipulating disk images.
I need to clean up the library code then I'll put it on github for anyone curious to see the internals. ?I'm still implementing stuff (e.g. scanf(); yikes.)
Cheers!
-dave
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The following items have been added to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: dave <dev@...>
Description:
example proj source, libs, and prebuilt demo disk
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Yes same here...
Also because it runs classic TECO command scripts.
Getting disparate platforms (outside of Unix) to do similar things the same
or very similar ways? was a major issue when on a given day it could be
Z80, PDP11, or VAX.? ?Just being able to move text easily was a handy
thing.
Then again it made copying CP/M stuff from MARKET::? over
DECNET engineering net much easier.??
Allison
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I agree. VEDIT is my favorite editor, and I still used it today. It works in both DOS and CP/M systems, and is configurable enough to handle all the different terminals I have used.
?
Lee
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart
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-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Sent: Jan 3, 2024 10:38 PM To: < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [Z80MC] A Z80 Asm rec
?
Hi Herb, I know the CUG and a few others.? I was running Pascal and C (tinyC, SmallC, BDS C) on Z80 back when they first hit the streets.? As a result I collected many C compilers native to Z80.? After trying a few? I looked at the code and most are huge? I was trying to get editors ?from PC to Z80 and none came close to VEDIT for compactness and ability to work in cramped systems (48Ktpa).? The ASMX executable in the ZIP file is 485K.?? Allison
?
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Hi Herb,
I know the CUG and a few others.? I was running Pascal and C (tinyC, SmallC, BDS C) on
Z80 back when they first hit the streets.? As a result I collected many C compilers
native to Z80.?
After trying a few? I looked at the code and most are huge? I was trying to get editors
?from PC to Z80 and none came close to VEDIT for compactness and ability
to work in cramped systems (48Ktpa).?
The ASMX executable in the ZIP file is 485K.??
Allison
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I was responding a bit late, while my membership in this list was in process. Things resolved since. Allison said: use shift and mask as then its compatible with native (z80 CP/M) system ASMZ80 OK, I see that consideration. Another dodge I use to extract bytes is integer divide or remainder variable / 256 *256 or variable - (variable / 256) Regarding CP/M-80 compatible assemblers, It's possible you can make this cross-assembler fit a CP/M-80 system: Its origins are from the C User's Group (CUG) distributions, as an MS-DOS C program derived from a CP/M-80 C program. Turbo C MS-DOS will compile AZ80. In any event, I assembled ZMCV15.ASM with my AZ80, and it only choked on a few things, fixed with effort. (No macro support, but the macro in the monitor is trivial.) Web search will find a CUG distribution, then search its index of disks for AZ80 to find the distribution disk files. Somewhere in the 200's series. I have a set of C cross assemblers on my site as they all have the same baseline code - this is explained on my Web site. I'm glad everything is resolved. It's good that ASMX got some attention, Bruce has done good work to maintain and distribute it over the years. 8-bit macro assemblers are a bit scarce so I was glad to find it years ago. BTW, if someone has compiled "my" ASMX under linux, they could do me a favor and send me their make file (or confirm my make from Bruce works). Of course I'll add it to the distribution. Regards, Herb Johnson
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Hi Allison:
Thanks for explaining. It seemed like both issues were the issue. :)
Peace and blessings,
JQ
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Scott,
What you missed is first I needed a assembler that can handle ZMCV15.ASM
even though I had LST, HEX output in the zip file.? ?Reason is so I could then
understand the?code and recreate it using ASMX the assembler of origin.?
That done I could feed it to Z80ASM as that is also a Linux z80 assembler
and its also the same as?the CP/M version Z80ASM.? Test is same in
for same out.
Getting that assembler on the mint Linux system ran afoul of a few system
things (security) I'd put in.? Then once sorted I could run it though I was name
identical to existing cross platform assembler that caused a conflict.? Minor fix.
Once the differences were understood it should have been easy.
But one oddity was the pseudo ops HIGH and LOW and they were for
byte extraction as that was incompatible.? ?The fix was simple substitute
shift and mask which most assemblers understand and support.??
Once that was answered and sorted I could progress to assemble
on a real CP/M system (and a faithful simulated system MYZ80).?
Which I was able to do today, the Compupro S100 crate (z80 10mhz)
was able to ingest it and produce identical output.
With that the Z80MC (full stack) will be brought up and experimented
with.? Once operational a few software projects will be explored.
-Using the FAT code in ZMCV15 as a OS that is PCDOS compatible at the
?file and media level.?
-A version of NorthStar DOS that was wired to a hard sector disk
?and matching controller that would work with SD or other media.
-Build?embedable uSd hardware and code to replace the small, slow,
?and balky cassette in the Epson PX8s I have and still use.
I may be eccentric but most of my ideas and approaches date back to my?
Altair I bought in 1974 and later flavored by CP/M, RT11, and VAX-VMS
operating system? long before the PC was even real.
Allison
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Scott,
Your questions are dated, so things have progressed.
As was, both were true.
The problem from my perspective has been resolved.
Thanks and happy New Year.
Allison
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Allison, Maybe I missed something in the 44 messages but I'm a bit confused about what the issue is that you are running in to.
Is it?
1) cannot compile the ASMX source code on an X86 or X64 Linux system?
? or
2) cannot compile Josh's Z80?ZMC v1.5 code on a Linux system using ASMX
Peace and blessings,
JQ
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The following files and folders have been deleted from the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: joshbensadon <joshbensadon@...>
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: joshbensadon <joshbensadon@...>
Description:
Small corrections
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Hi,
I uploaded a correction just now, (Jan 2).? Please download and use this version.
Yes, copy all these files in the zip to the SD Card from your PC.? Insert SD Card to Z80MC.? Turn on and stand back.
Cheers, Josh.
On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 12:18:55 p.m. EST, ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...> wrote:
Its not clear in the docs or I have to reread them...
I assume the process is to use the PC to copy the contents bigboot.zip
after extraction to the uSD and that's it.
Allison
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Its not clear in the docs or I have to reread them...
I assume the process is to use the PC to copy the contents bigboot.zip
after extraction to the uSD and that's it.
Allison
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Hi Herb,
Happy New Year.
The version I have came from your site.? When I need things micro, its on my list
for many decades.
No idea but its possible when I tried to assemble it (and install) a problem resulted
in an older version. The source is your modded version.? Either way the solution
was to use shift and mask as then its compatible with native (z80 CP/M) system
ASMZ80 which does not know of the pseudo op.? It was the only version
downloaded (zip file).? So not a ding just an oddity and in the end working or no
I still needed the problem of cross platform (PC to real z80CP/M) solution.?
I have a thing for cross platform compatibility.? All my systems have editors that are
K52/Vteco/Vedit/VAX-LSE with similar use inputs and formats. Same for assemblers
for most targets (SC/MP, 1802, 8080-8085, Z80, 8048 series, and others ).? In all
cases a floating point BASIC language as well plus other high level languages.
I try for the same on the PC and check it using MYZ80.
So in the end regardless having the shift and mask is what was really needed
and the pseudo op (both flavors) added one ore variant to the languages of bable.
Yes, the CP/M system has at least 5 flavors of assembler formats for Z80 with
several different mnemonics and wider range of pseudo op (macro and non macro).
It reflects the evolution of 8080/z80 over about 45 years of using those micros.
That does not include the less used but build and evolved on PC cross compilers?
that seem to be based on the 32/64bit platforms.? Many seem to be evolved
from MASM.
So problem resolved.
Allison
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dave
Lee Hart