There’s a smaller Lynx for DOS called “Links”. I have not tried it but I did download the source for it. It also looks like it’s written in C.
Get
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[Edited Message Follows]
I just fired up an old copy of Lynx under Win32, and was able to even use Google.? It in no way requires a mouse - it uses key strokes to select the next/previous "clickable" item (or text field).? I don't know how this would map to an ASCII keyboard, instead
of using the extra keys on a PC keyboard, but I bet it's been handled.? As Bob Kay said, it handles most non-JavaScript cases OK.? It even knows about cookies, allowing you to accept or reject them as they go by (or always or never).? It did not seem to handle
secure websites (), which rules out an ever-increasing number of sites - the majority, even - that do not offer a non-secure connection.
Taking a quick look at the source, it all looks to be in pretty plain-Jane C (as in, even I, who tend to write FORTRAN in every language, can understand it).? It may be a bit of a tight fit in 64k (well, 48k TPA), but it might work.? If it's possible at all,
I believe it would be a relatively simple project compared to, say, porting LCC to the 1802, as Bill Rowe did.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
I just fired up an old copy of Lynx under Win32, and was able to even use Google.? It in no way requires a mouse - it uses key strokes to select the next/previous "clickable" item (or text field).? I don't know how this would map to an ASCII keyboard, instead of using the extra keys on a PC keyboard, but I bet it's been handled.? As Bob Kay said, it handles most non-JavaScript cases OK.? It even knows about cookies, allowing you to accept or reject them as they go by (or always or never).? It did not seem to handle secure websites (), which rules out an ever-increasing number of sites - the majority, even - that do not offer a non-secure connection.
Taking a quick look at the source, it all looks to be in pretty plain-Jane C (as in, even I, who tend to write FORTRAN in every language, can understand it).? It may be a bit of a tight fit in 64k (well, 48k TPA), but it might work.? If it's possible at all, I believe it would be a relatively simple project compared to, say, porting LCC to the 1802, as Bill Rowe did.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Lee, I was just browsing your site with Lynx with no issues.? Obviously it wouldn't render images but that was pretty much the only difference.? Also when selecting a link to a .pdf file Lynx offered to download it since of course it couldn't display it.
It won't run on sites that require javascript, not sure about CSS.
The web server knows nothing about keystrokes, mouse clicks, etc, nor does it really care. It's the browser's job to translate keystrokes, mouse clicks, etc into HTTP requests which is the only thing the server concerns itself with.? That *may* not be true of Javascript, which is of course moot.
|
The classic CP/M approach was two serial port CON: and AUX:.
They were typically the same type of devices I used 8251As.
THe bis had both and also supported IObyte which was the
IO vector map.
To a program that used that structure was fairly simple:
It was also more portable.
The problem was early CP/M system often had only one serial port
or more often the second port was not supported by the BIOS and
it was required the modem progrram to support it directly (unportable).
Reason for that was IObyte and support fo it was built into the BDOS
and CCP but the BIOS it was often an unsupported as "optional".
The BIOS was an important part of the system most often early ones
were very minimal.? The Yabut it was possible to include into the bios
improved serial? and parallel support and even add system features
there like buffered? background printing.
By the early 80s that was often improved upon and dual serial ports were
common on systems like Kaypro, NS*, AmproLB+, SB180 and many more.
Single board system were usually two serial ports and one parallel
(centronics printer).
Allison
|
A cpm based BBS was basically the CCP with undesired commands removed
as a base structure as it was single user.? IT was also possible to time
slice who was active.? A timer interrupt make the timieg and you added
process switching.? Of course that was for more than one use at a time
(POTS ring down and multiple modems, so $$$).
MPM based BBS uses multiple Z80s each running an instance of CP/M+ (V3).
There were flavors of both.
Most (after 1982) were early 8088 based running DOS or CP/M86 and fakeing
mutltitasking by time slice.
The big issue was enough storage for the store and forward (email) and local
library.
The Walnut Creek CD has a few of the BBS system content and the system software.
Market:: and Simtel:: were DEC PDP10 based systems (large easily 300+ user capability).
Allison
|
Paul Bigwood wrote: There is Lynx of course. This is a linux text based browser that renders
webpages into text like your vcfmw.org page.
Maybe something like that could be ported to z80 code, if there arent
already some z80 based browsers already? I've never used Lynx. I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip! However, I have my doubts. Modern web pages insist on using javascript, CSS, images of text instead of text itself, etc. Then, they depend on a mouse to navigate and click links; no keyboard inputs. VCFMW's own web page depends on them to display what looks like a vintage terminal. I think a Z80 would have a tough time rendering them. My own website <> doesn't use any javascript, CSS, or images to display text. But, I don't know how to have plain old HTML read or respond to keystrokes. Lee Hart -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Good point. I think I have a 512K one because that’s what I had handy – they’re used in many of the Retrobrew ECB and John Monahan’s S100 various boards. I don’t think I have any 62256 chips around, but so long as I keep handshaking disabled, we should be good. ? I will give a revised ROM a try. It’s just an extra set of steps to use, but might be a fair compromise given the very narrow use for this. ? I requested a full data sheet on the modem from the manufacturer. It uses the AT command set which is good, but it has a reset pin, so I’m looking for the required pulse width for it. RESET isn’t exposed on the Z80MC when it’s in a case – P1 on the SIO has a missing “key” pin with no hole. So, I plan on a simple RC circuit local to the modem (if needed). ? I found a text-based browser called “Links” which is like Lynx but it seems to be pure text with no DOS-graphic characters. It’s written in C, so maybe there’s a way to pare it down to a bare minimum just to parse basic HTML. Need to look at that. ? More to come! ? ? ?
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On 8/18/20, 7:35 AM, "joshbensadon via groups.io" < [email protected] on behalf of joshbensadon@...> wrote: Rich,? If you switch to using a 32K RAM on your SIO, you won't need to cut and patch any RTS/CTS traces.? Firmware is not making any use of RAM Banks. To have the system boot up to BIT only, just have a look at the ROM source code.? The preliminary boot up of this board goes through 3 steps.? 1. Why is the board booting up (answers are: cold boot, warm boot requested, unknown hardware reset?) 2. What hardware is connected (answers are FP board, SIO Board, Both or None) In this last step, on line 618, there is a call to SET_IO with the parameter of what hardware is connected. If both boards are installed, I just find it convenient to send IO to both ports so the user can't make a mistake.? If you don't want to change the ROM, I'm sure we can find a way to add this change to the Z80MC_GO program.? This way, you can simply copy a different .hex file to the SD card. Perhaps have both .HEX files and select the configuration manually with the S-Boot SD card option. On Monday, August 17, 2020, 11:54:50 p.m. EDT, Richard Cini <rich.cini@...> wrote: While on the topic of modems...
They are used in credit card terminals. 2400 baud. Only thing they need besides the normal stuff is a reset signal. Battery...Bluetooth console...dial-up modem. Just imagine the portable BBSing possibilities! I ordered a set for experimentation.
Rich
--
Rich Cini
?On 8/17/20, 12:36 PM, "Lee Hart" <[email protected] on behalf of leeahart@...> wrote:
? ? Richard Cini wrote:
? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card.
? ? > With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering,
? ? > I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an
? ? > old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of
? ? > the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen.
? ? What a cool idea! I still have my Hayes Smartmodem, and fondly remember
? ? using it to log onto various BBS's on my CP/M computer back in the 80's.
? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Using this combination, there are a few things to note.
? ? > First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input
? ? > is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably a
? ? > way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM.
? ? If anyone figures it out, I can make a new ROM. There are a number of
? ? upgrades like this that I've been meaning to get into. (Where does the
? ? time go...)
? ? > Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE
? ? > initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are
? ? > needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put
? ? > it in the right place for the 32K RAM).
? ? The 8250 has four output bits; DTR, RTS, OUT1, and OUT2. I supply a 128K
? ? RAM for U1; it only needs two extra address bits. I happened to use DTR
? ? and RTS (leaving OUT1 and OUT2 unused).
? ? In hindsight, I could have used OUT1 and OUT2 for the extra address
? ? bits; that would leave DTR and RTS free to use normally for serial
? ? communications. Maybe I can do that on the next "spin" of the board.
? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts
? ? > for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog
? ? > telephone switch. So, that will be my next project.
? ? I wish I knew more about the modern internet. It seems like it should be
? ? possible to setup a "modern" BBS that old CP/M computers can log into.
? ? The old modem would be replaced with a "black box" that connects to the
? ? internet instead of a phone line.
? ? I've seen this done; but the "black box" is a PC, complete with keyboard
? ? and screen. In fact, you do everything on the PC itself. The CP/M
? ? computer is redundant.
? ? Then there is the question of what the web pages on the internet look
? ? like that such a "BBS" accesses. They can't be the usual HTML, color,
? ? graphics, javascript, etc. if you expect a CP/M computer to deal with
? ? it. Examples I've seen may *look* like an old time terminal (like
? ? <> ) but in fact it's a page full of the usual HTML,
? ? javascript, CSS, etc.
? ? Lee Hart
? ? --
? ? A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
? ? nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
? ? ? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
? ? --
? ? Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
What a cute modem!
Rich,? If you switch to using a 32K RAM on your SIO, you won't need to cut and patch any RTS/CTS traces.? Firmware is not making any use of RAM Banks.
To have the system boot up to BIT only, just have a look at the ROM source code.? The preliminary boot up of this board goes through 3 steps.? 1. Why is the board booting up (answers are: cold boot, warm boot requested, unknown hardware reset?) 2. What hardware is connected (answers are FP board, SIO Board, Both or None) 3. Set up RAM and I/O.
In this last step, on line 618, there is a call to SET_IO with the parameter of what hardware is connected. If both boards are installed, I just find it convenient to send IO to both ports so the user can't make a mistake.?
If you don't want to change the ROM, I'm sure we can find a way to add this change to the Z80MC_GO program.? This way, you can simply copy a different .hex file to the SD card. Perhaps have both .HEX files and select the configuration manually with the S-Boot SD card option.
On Monday, August 17, 2020, 11:54:50 p.m. EDT, Richard Cini <rich.cini@...> wrote:
While on the topic of modems... They are used in credit card terminals. 2400 baud. Only thing they need besides the normal stuff is a reset signal. Battery...Bluetooth console...dial-up modem. Just imagine the portable BBSing possibilities! I ordered a set for experimentation. Rich -- Rich Cini ?On 8/17/20, 12:36 PM, "Lee Hart" < [email protected] on behalf of leeahart@...> wrote: ? ? Richard Cini wrote: ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card. ? ? > With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering, ? ? > I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an ? ? > old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of ? ? > the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen. ? ? What a cool idea! I still have my Hayes Smartmodem, and fondly remember ? ? using it to log onto various BBS's on my CP/M computer back in the 80's. ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Using this combination, there are a few things to note. ? ? > First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input ? ? > is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably a ? ? > way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM. ? ? If anyone figures it out, I can make a new ROM. There are a number of ? ? upgrades like this that I've been meaning to get into. (Where does the ? ? time go...) ? ? > Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE ? ? > initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are ? ? > needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put ? ? > it in the right place for the 32K RAM). ? ? The 8250 has four output bits; DTR, RTS, OUT1, and OUT2. I supply a 128K ? ? RAM for U1; it only needs two extra address bits. I happened to use DTR ? ? and RTS (leaving OUT1 and OUT2 unused). ? ? In hindsight, I could have used OUT1 and OUT2 for the extra address ? ? bits; that would leave DTR and RTS free to use normally for serial ? ? communications. Maybe I can do that on the next "spin" of the board. ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts ? ? > for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog ? ? > telephone switch. So, that will be my next project. ? ? I wish I knew more about the modern internet. It seems like it should be ? ? possible to setup a "modern" BBS that old CP/M computers can log into. ? ? The old modem would be replaced with a "black box" that connects to the ? ? internet instead of a phone line. ? ? I've seen this done; but the "black box" is a PC, complete with keyboard ? ? and screen. In fact, you do everything on the PC itself. The CP/M ? ? computer is redundant. ? ? Then there is the question of what the web pages on the internet look ? ? like that such a "BBS" accesses. They can't be the usual HTML, color, ? ? graphics, javascript, etc. if you expect a CP/M computer to deal with ? ? it. Examples I've seen may *look* like an old time terminal (like ? ? <> ) but in fact it's a page full of the usual HTML, ? ? javascript, CSS, etc. ? ? Lee Hart ? ? -- ? ? A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is ? ? nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery ? ? -- ? ? Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Lee,
There is Lynx of course. This is a linux text based browser that renders webpages into text like your vcfmw.org page.
Maybe something like that could be ported to z80 code, if there arent already some z80 based browsers already?
Paul Bigwood
|
Oops - Sorry, that was supposed to be a private message.? My apologies for the bandwidth hogging.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Hi, Bill,
?
Perhaps your “pocket-sized Z180 computer” has arrived by now.? If so,
you may be looking for something to run on it.? So here’s a quick
“something to send your way”:
?
This is a reasonably complete implementation of the Adventure (“Colossal
Cave”) text-based game.? I whiled away many hours as an undergrad playing
it.? (I was using a TI Silent-700 printing terminal, and just fed the
out-feed paper out the open window; eventually, it reached the ground from our
9th floor room...)? Once you figure out how to create a working disk image
to play in, and download things onto the “disk”, you can download the game
itself.? I downloaded the following files:
?
?? USQ.COM, ADVENTUR.MQG, and ADVENTUR.COM
?
then used the USQ utility to decompress the messages file , but I also
included the decompressed file; also the source, and such documentation as
exists (remember that .DOC files under CP/M are simple text files, not Word
documents).? There are also some maps, and sources for other
versions.
?
I have a bunch of other stuff, too.? If you’re interested in program
development, I have Turbo Pascal (which I actually used professionally), and a
really neat compiled Basic written by Jack Ganssle (embedded systems guru for a
few decades now).? Also, the original WordStar 3.0 installation set – I
used WordStar as my primary editor for several years, both for programming and
actual word processing, on fairly large projects.? Let me know if you want
any of these.
?
Cheers!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Z80MC] Captain Video
?
I've copied everything I could find on the
internet, but I'll happily take anything you want to send my way, too. I do have
a question for you on hardware, though. Can you recommend an ftdi card or cards
so I can talk to the thing when it gets here.? I've got these sitting in my
amazon cart, with some 4" jumper leads for hookup, but not sure this is the best
option. Also don't know if I'll need two, or if just one will do.
?
The Tindie site warns of possible long delays
in shipping due to Covid-19, so no telling how long it will take for the
hardware kit to get here. I got a book I bought from the UK in less than a week,
but they seem to think it could be months, too.
?
Bill in OKC
?
William R. Meyers,
MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be
able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building,
write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone,
solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
?
?
?
On Saturday, August 1, 2020, 09:32:06 PM CDT, Mark Moulding
<mark@...> wrote:
?
?
Bill, I saved almost all of my CP/M stuff in files in my master "everything
I've ever done" hard drive archive, so if there's anything you need (WordStar in
file form, rather than disks), let me know.
I found
a copy of Adventure (Colossal Cave) for CP/M, and copied that all into User
space 1.? That's always good for a ten-minute break, too...
~~
Mark Moulding
|
While on the topic of modems... They are used in credit card terminals. 2400 baud. Only thing they need besides the normal stuff is a reset signal. Battery...Bluetooth console...dial-up modem. Just imagine the portable BBSing possibilities! I ordered a set for experimentation. Rich -- Rich Cini ?On 8/17/20, 12:36 PM, "Lee Hart" < [email protected] on behalf of leeahart@...> wrote: Richard Cini wrote: > Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card. > With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering, > I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an > old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of > the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen. What a cool idea! I still have my Hayes Smartmodem, and fondly remember using it to log onto various BBS's on my CP/M computer back in the 80's. > Using this combination, there are a few things to note. > First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input > is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably a > way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM. If anyone figures it out, I can make a new ROM. There are a number of upgrades like this that I've been meaning to get into. (Where does the time go...) > Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE > initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are > needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put > it in the right place for the 32K RAM). The 8250 has four output bits; DTR, RTS, OUT1, and OUT2. I supply a 128K RAM for U1; it only needs two extra address bits. I happened to use DTR and RTS (leaving OUT1 and OUT2 unused). In hindsight, I could have used OUT1 and OUT2 for the extra address bits; that would leave DTR and RTS free to use normally for serial communications. Maybe I can do that on the next "spin" of the board. > I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts > for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog > telephone switch. So, that will be my next project. I wish I knew more about the modern internet. It seems like it should be possible to setup a "modern" BBS that old CP/M computers can log into. The old modem would be replaced with a "black box" that connects to the internet instead of a phone line. I've seen this done; but the "black box" is a PC, complete with keyboard and screen. In fact, you do everything on the PC itself. The CP/M computer is redundant. Then there is the question of what the web pages on the internet look like that such a "BBS" accesses. They can't be the usual HTML, color, graphics, javascript, etc. if you expect a CP/M computer to deal with it. Examples I've seen may *look* like an old time terminal (like <> ) but in fact it's a page full of the usual HTML, javascript, CSS, etc. Lee Hart -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Yeah, not sure how useful this is but it was fun getting it together. The only thing I forgot to mention is the use of a one-piece TTL-to-RS232 level shifter. It has a DE9 on it and fits inside a connector shroud.
I have not looked at the board plot but it shouldn’t be hard to move those two signals with cuts and jumpers if it becomes important.
I’m going to pull out the analog switch and see if it dials.
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Richard Cini wrote:
>????????????????? Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card.
> With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering,
> I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an
> old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of
> the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen.
What a cool idea! I still have my Hayes Smartmodem, and fondly remember
using it to log onto various BBS's on my CP/M computer back in the 80's.
>????????????????? Using this combination, there are a few things to note.
> First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input
> is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably a
> way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM.
If anyone figures it out, I can make a new ROM. There are a number of
upgrades like this that I've been meaning to get into. (Where does the
time go...)
> Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE
> initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are
> needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put
> it in the right place for the 32K RAM).
The 8250 has four output bits; DTR, RTS, OUT1, and OUT2. I supply a 128K
RAM for U1; it only needs two extra address bits. I happened to use DTR
and RTS (leaving OUT1 and OUT2 unused).
In hindsight, I could have used OUT1 and OUT2 for the extra address
bits; that would leave DTR and RTS free to use normally for serial
communications. Maybe I can do that on the next "spin" of the board.
>????????????????? I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts
> for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog
> telephone switch. So, that will be my next project.
I wish I knew more about the modern internet. It seems like it should be
possible to setup a "modern" BBS that old CP/M computers can log into.
The old modem would be replaced with a "black box" that connects to the
internet instead of a phone line.
I've seen this done; but the "black box" is a PC, complete with keyboard
and screen. In fact, you do everything on the PC itself. The CP/M
computer is redundant.
Then there is the question of what the web pages on the internet look
like that such a "BBS" accesses. They can't be the usual HTML, color,
graphics, javascript, etc. if you expect a CP/M computer to deal with
it. Examples I've seen may *look* like an old time terminal (like
<> ) but in fact it's a page full of the usual HTML,
javascript, CSS, etc.
Lee Hart
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
???????? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
|
Richard Cini wrote: Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card.
With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering,
I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an
old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of
the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen. What a cool idea! I still have my Hayes Smartmodem, and fondly remember using it to log onto various BBS's on my CP/M computer back in the 80's. Using this combination, there are a few things to note.
First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input
is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably a
way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM. If anyone figures it out, I can make a new ROM. There are a number of upgrades like this that I've been meaning to get into. (Where does the time go...) Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE
initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are
needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put
it in the right place for the 32K RAM). The 8250 has four output bits; DTR, RTS, OUT1, and OUT2. I supply a 128K RAM for U1; it only needs two extra address bits. I happened to use DTR and RTS (leaving OUT1 and OUT2 unused). In hindsight, I could have used OUT1 and OUT2 for the extra address bits; that would leave DTR and RTS free to use normally for serial communications. Maybe I can do that on the next "spin" of the board. I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts
for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog
telephone switch. So, that will be my next project. I wish I knew more about the modern internet. It seems like it should be possible to setup a "modern" BBS that old CP/M computers can log into. The old modem would be replaced with a "black box" that connects to the internet instead of a phone line. I've seen this done; but the "black box" is a PC, complete with keyboard and screen. In fact, you do everything on the PC itself. The CP/M computer is redundant. Then there is the question of what the web pages on the internet look like that such a "BBS" accesses. They can't be the usual HTML, color, graphics, javascript, etc. if you expect a CP/M computer to deal with it. Examples I've seen may *look* like an old time terminal (like <> ) but in fact it's a page full of the usual HTML, javascript, CSS, etc. Lee Hart -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
All –
?
??????????????? Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card. With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering, I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an
old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen.?
?
??????????????? Using this combination, there are a few things to note. First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably
a way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM.?
?
Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put it in
the right place for the 32K RAM).
?
??????????????? I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog telephone switch. So, that will be my next project.
?
Enjoy. Thanks again Josh for the help.
?
Rich
?
--
Rich Cini
Get
|
Re: Z180 (was: Captain Video)
I got my TI-86 in 1998 or maybe 1999. So I don't think it would be considered "later" but can't swear to it. It did use a different processor from most of the other graphing calculators they sold. I'm one of those math-deficient types, and was a poor starving student with 3 kids when I got it, as it was the cheapest TI graphing calculator at the time. Wife got a TI-89 a couple of years later, and it was not compatible at all with the TI-86. My girls got TI's with color screens when they were old enough, and that was between 2014 & 2016 for oldest and youngest, respectively. Don't remember which models they got, though. I was already an ex-teacher by then, and not doing anything but email & social media by then. Now I'm retired again, and got a little time to play. New machine has shipped, no tracking. We'll see how it goes.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 02:53:50 PM CDT, ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...> wrote:
Many of the later TI 8x were not true Z80 but the sorta compatible Rabbit.
and I think later eZ80.
A good example of bus width is the DEC T-11, its PDP11 a 16 bit architecture
but the T-11 had a feature (at reset) that could make it do two bus fetches
on an 8bit bus for a speed cost but system simplicity.? The Z280 also could
do that.
The 8088 and 8086 were software identical save for bus width, s the 8088?
was slow due to the need for multiple bus fetches and IBM ran it slow?
(4.77mhz seriously?) cheaper 5mhz part and slow cheap memory.?
Before that system fully emerged I was running a?8mhz 8086?on
Multibus CP/M-86 and it did scream.? By 1983 there were 12mhz
8088 systems out there.? Fast enough to make an appearance.
PC were interesting but the clone wars forced improvement and
compatibility.? ?One of the hybrid system Is the compupro 8085 at
12mhz and 8088 at 12 or 16 mhz for a late 1983 board.? It was
either cpu only with one cpu was running but switching on the fly
back and forth was possible.
The last kicker was the NEC upd72108 V20, it was 8088 and thee was
the 16bit 8086 version too. software compatable with 8088/6 with speedup
and a 8080 emulation mode.? Very popular as it was 5-10% faster for the
same clock.? It was one of the compatable but not identical or from
intel/AMD masks.? I still have a few of the 8mhz parts and a few screened
for 12.
As to market over engineering [8088] well sorta. most of us viewed it as
a 8085 with a bag on the side and the segmentation scheme was totally
nuts.? The PC had many legacy issues follow it into the days of Pentium
due to that.? It was dominant and far from good.? The?68000, Z8000,
and then later MIPS, ARM, Power PC were all better but some were
late or too buggy early on.
The goals came from the super minis.? Large address space at least
16bit registers, efficient byte/word handling and extended math,
coupled to directly address large address spaces with memory protection.
IT was driven by the ability to put 16 and even 32bits on a single chip.
That and the price of memory dropping from about 100$ for 16k bytes
in 1980 to about that for 1MB by 1985 and 16mb by 1989.
Z180/64180 is attractive and did fill a large part of the embedded systems?
space before the later chips got cheap enough in the late 90s.? I have an
old GPS that has a Z180 in it
I left out the TI9900 as it was true 16bit but slower than glacial.?
By 9900 I mean the 9900, not the later 9980 or 9985 8bit bus
crippled versions.
Allison
|
Re: Z180 (was: Captain Video)
Many of the later TI 8x were not true Z80 but the sorta compatible Rabbit.
and I think later eZ80.
A good example of bus width is the DEC T-11, its PDP11 a 16 bit architecture
but the T-11 had a feature (at reset) that could make it do two bus fetches
on an 8bit bus for a speed cost but system simplicity.? The Z280 also could
do that.
The 8088 and 8086 were software identical save for bus width, s the 8088?
was slow due to the need for multiple bus fetches and IBM ran it slow?
(4.77mhz seriously?) cheaper 5mhz part and slow cheap memory.?
Before that system fully emerged I was running a?8mhz 8086?on
Multibus CP/M-86 and it did scream.? By 1983 there were 12mhz
8088 systems out there.? Fast enough to make an appearance.
PC were interesting but the clone wars forced improvement and
compatibility.? ?One of the hybrid system Is the compupro 8085 at
12mhz and 8088 at 12 or 16 mhz for a late 1983 board.? It was
either cpu only with one cpu was running but switching on the fly
back and forth was possible.
The last kicker was the NEC upd72108 V20, it was 8088 and thee was
the 16bit 8086 version too. software compatable with 8088/6 with speedup
and a 8080 emulation mode.? Very popular as it was 5-10% faster for the
same clock.? It was one of the compatable but not identical or from
intel/AMD masks.? I still have a few of the 8mhz parts and a few screened
for 12.
As to market over engineering [8088] well sorta. most of us viewed it as
a 8085 with a bag on the side and the segmentation scheme was totally
nuts.? The PC had many legacy issues follow it into the days of Pentium
due to that.? It was dominant and far from good.? The?68000, Z8000,
and then later MIPS, ARM, Power PC were all better but some were
late or too buggy early on.
The goals came from the super minis.? Large address space at least
16bit registers, efficient byte/word handling and extended math,
coupled to directly address large address spaces with memory protection.
IT was driven by the ability to put 16 and even 32bits on a single chip.
That and the price of memory dropping from about 100$ for 16k bytes
in 1980 to about that for 1MB by 1985 and 16mb by 1989.
Z180/64180 is attractive and did fill a large part of the embedded systems?
space before the later chips got cheap enough in the late 90s.? I have an
old GPS that has a Z180 in it
I left out the TI9900 as it was true 16bit but slower than glacial.?
By 9900 I mean the 9900, not the later 9980 or 9985 8bit bus
crippled versions.
Allison
|
Re: Z180 (was: Captain Video)
TI-86 is a Z80 with 128mb of memory, so likely one of the processors you guys are talking about, too. Display on them is essentially the same as the TRS-80 computers, except maybe for graphics. There were ways to load progams onto it and run them, but by the time I found out about them my TI-86 was having display problems. It was the last TI I bought for myself as they just abandoned it. While mine was still pretty new! The rats. Of course I'n not the only one TI did that to.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 06:42:32 PM CDT, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote:
> FYI 64180 and Z180 are to most still a z80 and programs at the
> application level (CP/M) the same.
Yes. Besides the P112, there have in fact been many follow-in
enhancements to the Z80 family. The current TI-84 calculators still use
them today.
> Z180/64180 were z80s aka 8-bitters. 8088 and z8000 and 68000 were bigger
> word size and minimally 16-bit.
Sort of... 8- vs. 16-bit is a blurry line. It's hard to call the 8088 a
16-bit CPU, except in marketing. At the same clock speed, the Z80 easily
out-performed it. The Z180 was even faster, and had a bigger address
space as well.
> 8088 was Totally program (binary) incompatable. But it was a thing.
Yep. Marketing over engineering.
Lee
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Z180 (was: Captain Video)
ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote: FYI 64180 and Z180 are to most still a z80 and programs at the
application level (CP/M) the same. Yes. Besides the P112, there have in fact been many follow-in enhancements to the Z80 family. The current TI-84 calculators still use them today. Z180/64180 were z80s aka 8-bitters. 8088 and z8000 and 68000 were bigger
word size and minimally 16-bit. Sort of... 8- vs. 16-bit is a blurry line. It's hard to call the 8088 a 16-bit CPU, except in marketing. At the same clock speed, the Z80 easily out-performed it. The Z180 was even faster, and had a bigger address space as well. 8088 was Totally program (binary) incompatable. But it was a thing. Yep. Marketing over engineering. Lee -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
>>>I will say the Z180 is a very interesting chip. I looked at it a lot as the Hitachi HD64180, which was available in a 64-pin DIP. But for some reason, it never got much "traction" in the market, so there wasn't much point in making a kit version of it. I'm glad to see someone has.<<<
There was the P112 and its follow on.? IT was popular but the date was 1980 and 8088 was?
showing its face finally (it had ben around for a while but no takers).
.
FYI 64180 and Z180 are to most still a z80 and programs at the application level (CP/M) the same.
What the big deal Z180/64180 were z80s aka 8bitters..? 8088 and z8000,and 68000 were
bigger word size and minimally 16bit.? ?When everyone decided 16 it was it, the market
shifted fast and by the summer of 81 (just pre PC) it was already a 16 bit world.? Not to
say 8bitter were not in use but they were already hitting the memory wall.
TWhe sallwarts went to Z180/64180 as it was faster, offered the potential for
larger memory space (512k) and CP/M3, Zrdos and a few other cp/m compatables
could support that space.? The apps were still Z80 but way faster.??
8088 was nearly as easy to build up as the 8085.? Totally program (binary) incompatable.
But it was a thing.
Allison
|
Lee Hart
Paul Bigwood
Bill in OKC too