Richard Cini wrote: Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card.
With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering,
I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an
old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of
the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen. What a cool idea! I still have my Hayes Smartmodem, and fondly remember using it to log onto various BBS's on my CP/M computer back in the 80's. Using this combination, there are a few things to note.
First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input
is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably a
way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM. If anyone figures it out, I can make a new ROM. There are a number of upgrades like this that I've been meaning to get into. (Where does the time go...) Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE
initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are
needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put
it in the right place for the 32K RAM). The 8250 has four output bits; DTR, RTS, OUT1, and OUT2. I supply a 128K RAM for U1; it only needs two extra address bits. I happened to use DTR and RTS (leaving OUT1 and OUT2 unused). In hindsight, I could have used OUT1 and OUT2 for the extra address bits; that would leave DTR and RTS free to use normally for serial communications. Maybe I can do that on the next "spin" of the board. I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts
for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog
telephone switch. So, that will be my next project. I wish I knew more about the modern internet. It seems like it should be possible to setup a "modern" BBS that old CP/M computers can log into. The old modem would be replaced with a "black box" that connects to the internet instead of a phone line. I've seen this done; but the "black box" is a PC, complete with keyboard and screen. In fact, you do everything on the PC itself. The CP/M computer is redundant. Then there is the question of what the web pages on the internet look like that such a "BBS" accesses. They can't be the usual HTML, color, graphics, javascript, etc. if you expect a CP/M computer to deal with it. Examples I've seen may *look* like an old time terminal (like <> ) but in fact it's a page full of the usual HTML, javascript, CSS, etc. Lee Hart -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
All –
?
??????????????? Just a fun thing to do with the Z80MC and SIO card. With some great detective work from Josh and a little bit of tinkering, I was able to get the SIO connected to a Hayesmodem 300 and to get an
old CP/M program called “MODM221A” running. MODM221A is a derivative of the original MODEM program from Ward Christensen.?
?
??????????????? Using this combination, there are a few things to note. First, you have to boot to the monitor and make sure that console input is the bit-banger only, and then load CP/M manually. There’s probably
a way to permanently do this, but it would require modifying the system ROM.?
?
Second, since DTR and RTS are used as address bits, the ACE initialization in MODM221 has to disable DTR and RTS (or, if those are needed, then the RAM needs to be reduced to 32K and 5V re-routed to put it in
the right place for the 32K RAM).
?
??????????????? I don’t have a BBS setup, but I do have all the parts for it – a computer with a Digi 8-port serial board and an analog telephone switch. So, that will be my next project.
?
Enjoy. Thanks again Josh for the help.
?
Rich
?
--
Rich Cini
Get
|
Re: Z180 (was: Captain Video)
I got my TI-86 in 1998 or maybe 1999. So I don't think it would be considered "later" but can't swear to it. It did use a different processor from most of the other graphing calculators they sold. I'm one of those math-deficient types, and was a poor starving student with 3 kids when I got it, as it was the cheapest TI graphing calculator at the time. Wife got a TI-89 a couple of years later, and it was not compatible at all with the TI-86. My girls got TI's with color screens when they were old enough, and that was between 2014 & 2016 for oldest and youngest, respectively. Don't remember which models they got, though. I was already an ex-teacher by then, and not doing anything but email & social media by then. Now I'm retired again, and got a little time to play. New machine has shipped, no tracking. We'll see how it goes.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 02:53:50 PM CDT, ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...> wrote:
Many of the later TI 8x were not true Z80 but the sorta compatible Rabbit.
and I think later eZ80.
A good example of bus width is the DEC T-11, its PDP11 a 16 bit architecture
but the T-11 had a feature (at reset) that could make it do two bus fetches
on an 8bit bus for a speed cost but system simplicity.? The Z280 also could
do that.
The 8088 and 8086 were software identical save for bus width, s the 8088?
was slow due to the need for multiple bus fetches and IBM ran it slow?
(4.77mhz seriously?) cheaper 5mhz part and slow cheap memory.?
Before that system fully emerged I was running a?8mhz 8086?on
Multibus CP/M-86 and it did scream.? By 1983 there were 12mhz
8088 systems out there.? Fast enough to make an appearance.
PC were interesting but the clone wars forced improvement and
compatibility.? ?One of the hybrid system Is the compupro 8085 at
12mhz and 8088 at 12 or 16 mhz for a late 1983 board.? It was
either cpu only with one cpu was running but switching on the fly
back and forth was possible.
The last kicker was the NEC upd72108 V20, it was 8088 and thee was
the 16bit 8086 version too. software compatable with 8088/6 with speedup
and a 8080 emulation mode.? Very popular as it was 5-10% faster for the
same clock.? It was one of the compatable but not identical or from
intel/AMD masks.? I still have a few of the 8mhz parts and a few screened
for 12.
As to market over engineering [8088] well sorta. most of us viewed it as
a 8085 with a bag on the side and the segmentation scheme was totally
nuts.? The PC had many legacy issues follow it into the days of Pentium
due to that.? It was dominant and far from good.? The?68000, Z8000,
and then later MIPS, ARM, Power PC were all better but some were
late or too buggy early on.
The goals came from the super minis.? Large address space at least
16bit registers, efficient byte/word handling and extended math,
coupled to directly address large address spaces with memory protection.
IT was driven by the ability to put 16 and even 32bits on a single chip.
That and the price of memory dropping from about 100$ for 16k bytes
in 1980 to about that for 1MB by 1985 and 16mb by 1989.
Z180/64180 is attractive and did fill a large part of the embedded systems?
space before the later chips got cheap enough in the late 90s.? I have an
old GPS that has a Z180 in it
I left out the TI9900 as it was true 16bit but slower than glacial.?
By 9900 I mean the 9900, not the later 9980 or 9985 8bit bus
crippled versions.
Allison
|
Re: Z180 (was: Captain Video)
Many of the later TI 8x were not true Z80 but the sorta compatible Rabbit.
and I think later eZ80.
A good example of bus width is the DEC T-11, its PDP11 a 16 bit architecture
but the T-11 had a feature (at reset) that could make it do two bus fetches
on an 8bit bus for a speed cost but system simplicity.? The Z280 also could
do that.
The 8088 and 8086 were software identical save for bus width, s the 8088?
was slow due to the need for multiple bus fetches and IBM ran it slow?
(4.77mhz seriously?) cheaper 5mhz part and slow cheap memory.?
Before that system fully emerged I was running a?8mhz 8086?on
Multibus CP/M-86 and it did scream.? By 1983 there were 12mhz
8088 systems out there.? Fast enough to make an appearance.
PC were interesting but the clone wars forced improvement and
compatibility.? ?One of the hybrid system Is the compupro 8085 at
12mhz and 8088 at 12 or 16 mhz for a late 1983 board.? It was
either cpu only with one cpu was running but switching on the fly
back and forth was possible.
The last kicker was the NEC upd72108 V20, it was 8088 and thee was
the 16bit 8086 version too. software compatable with 8088/6 with speedup
and a 8080 emulation mode.? Very popular as it was 5-10% faster for the
same clock.? It was one of the compatable but not identical or from
intel/AMD masks.? I still have a few of the 8mhz parts and a few screened
for 12.
As to market over engineering [8088] well sorta. most of us viewed it as
a 8085 with a bag on the side and the segmentation scheme was totally
nuts.? The PC had many legacy issues follow it into the days of Pentium
due to that.? It was dominant and far from good.? The?68000, Z8000,
and then later MIPS, ARM, Power PC were all better but some were
late or too buggy early on.
The goals came from the super minis.? Large address space at least
16bit registers, efficient byte/word handling and extended math,
coupled to directly address large address spaces with memory protection.
IT was driven by the ability to put 16 and even 32bits on a single chip.
That and the price of memory dropping from about 100$ for 16k bytes
in 1980 to about that for 1MB by 1985 and 16mb by 1989.
Z180/64180 is attractive and did fill a large part of the embedded systems?
space before the later chips got cheap enough in the late 90s.? I have an
old GPS that has a Z180 in it
I left out the TI9900 as it was true 16bit but slower than glacial.?
By 9900 I mean the 9900, not the later 9980 or 9985 8bit bus
crippled versions.
Allison
|
Re: Z180 (was: Captain Video)
TI-86 is a Z80 with 128mb of memory, so likely one of the processors you guys are talking about, too. Display on them is essentially the same as the TRS-80 computers, except maybe for graphics. There were ways to load progams onto it and run them, but by the time I found out about them my TI-86 was having display problems. It was the last TI I bought for myself as they just abandoned it. While mine was still pretty new! The rats. Of course I'n not the only one TI did that to.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 06:42:32 PM CDT, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote:
> FYI 64180 and Z180 are to most still a z80 and programs at the
> application level (CP/M) the same.
Yes. Besides the P112, there have in fact been many follow-in
enhancements to the Z80 family. The current TI-84 calculators still use
them today.
> Z180/64180 were z80s aka 8-bitters. 8088 and z8000 and 68000 were bigger
> word size and minimally 16-bit.
Sort of... 8- vs. 16-bit is a blurry line. It's hard to call the 8088 a
16-bit CPU, except in marketing. At the same clock speed, the Z80 easily
out-performed it. The Z180 was even faster, and had a bigger address
space as well.
> 8088 was Totally program (binary) incompatable. But it was a thing.
Yep. Marketing over engineering.
Lee
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Z180 (was: Captain Video)
ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote: FYI 64180 and Z180 are to most still a z80 and programs at the
application level (CP/M) the same. Yes. Besides the P112, there have in fact been many follow-in enhancements to the Z80 family. The current TI-84 calculators still use them today. Z180/64180 were z80s aka 8-bitters. 8088 and z8000 and 68000 were bigger
word size and minimally 16-bit. Sort of... 8- vs. 16-bit is a blurry line. It's hard to call the 8088 a 16-bit CPU, except in marketing. At the same clock speed, the Z80 easily out-performed it. The Z180 was even faster, and had a bigger address space as well. 8088 was Totally program (binary) incompatable. But it was a thing. Yep. Marketing over engineering. Lee -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
>>>I will say the Z180 is a very interesting chip. I looked at it a lot as the Hitachi HD64180, which was available in a 64-pin DIP. But for some reason, it never got much "traction" in the market, so there wasn't much point in making a kit version of it. I'm glad to see someone has.<<<
There was the P112 and its follow on.? IT was popular but the date was 1980 and 8088 was?
showing its face finally (it had ben around for a while but no takers).
.
FYI 64180 and Z180 are to most still a z80 and programs at the application level (CP/M) the same.
What the big deal Z180/64180 were z80s aka 8bitters..? 8088 and z8000,and 68000 were
bigger word size and minimally 16bit.? ?When everyone decided 16 it was it, the market
shifted fast and by the summer of 81 (just pre PC) it was already a 16 bit world.? Not to
say 8bitter were not in use but they were already hitting the memory wall.
TWhe sallwarts went to Z180/64180 as it was faster, offered the potential for
larger memory space (512k) and CP/M3, Zrdos and a few other cp/m compatables
could support that space.? The apps were still Z80 but way faster.??
8088 was nearly as easy to build up as the 8085.? Totally program (binary) incompatable.
But it was a thing.
Allison
|
64180 was availabe in that large pin dense dense dip or flatpack [J lead TQFP]
as is the Z180 and they are both about the same.? I have both and save for
clock speed same thing.? ITs biggest features are built in dual uart (dart similar),
a bit serial somewhat like I2C, timers and DMAC.? There are screamingly fast
versions to be found, I have a handful at 10mhz and one that is spec'ed for 20.
I also have SB180 that used the 64pin dip with the SCSI interface and the?
BCC180 (at 18.432mhz) using the TQFP as well as a few HB designs.
What makes the Z180/64180 less popular is programming the MMU is a
real pain.? The result of any programming is still only 64k addressable
space scattered in the 512K (64pin) or 1MB (TQFP) space.? That and
not everyone likes the onboard peripherals.
There is the much harder to find Z280, takes a z180 and adds 16bit wide (startup
configurable) bus for speed and extended but upward compatible instruction set
with indirect addressing modes and 24bit addressing via I&D spaces plus a real
MMU.? That part makes it easy to have 8mb ram and 8mb rom.? You need mask
level parts higher than H for fewest bugs.? Performance for the Jrev at 12mhz?
can beat a 8086 up to 16mhz.
However for just plain fun the base Z80 at 4-10mhz is a good pick for simple
systems.
Allison
|
I'm hoping there will be a way to put video on it, one of these days. I'm pretty much starting from scratch, as far as legacy computers go. May have to rob the chips from this one to go on a different board. Been a long time since I did any electronics. I may have to go back to school for that, too.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Sunday, August 2, 2020, 03:46:07 PM CDT, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:
> Pretty sure I said yes on every option, except color of the case, where
> I selected blue. So I won't worry about it until the thing arrives.
This is a pretty interesting little micro. I'm interested to hear how it
turns out! But it's off-topic for this thread, as it doesn't have video
at all. You may want to continue discussions on a new thread?
I will say the Z180 is a very interesting chip. I looked at it a lot as
the Hitachi HD64180, which was available in a 64-pin DIP. But for some
reason, it never got much "traction" in the market, so there wasn't much
point in making a kit version of it. I'm glad to see someone has.
Lee Hart
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote: Pretty sure I said yes on every option, except color of the case, where
I selected blue. So I won't worry about it until the thing arrives. This is a pretty interesting little micro. I'm interested to hear how it turns out! But it's off-topic for this thread, as it doesn't have video at all. You may want to continue discussions on a new thread? I will say the Z180 is a very interesting chip. I looked at it a lot as the Hitachi HD64180, which was available in a 64-pin DIP. But for some reason, it never got much "traction" in the market, so there wasn't much point in making a kit version of it. I'm glad to see someone has. Lee Hart -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Just got the confirmation email, did order the usb cable and ftdi adapter. Didn't remember that, but did know I left a yes anywhere it would take one. They're quote 3-5 weeks shipping time. I'm gonna need to stay busy. ;)? I may just have to order a powered USB hub. I've wanted one for several years, this could be a good excuse.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Sunday, August 2, 2020, 12:25:20 PM CDT, Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:
The unit is a bit touchy about power.? I couldn't run it of the USB hub under my monitor, because the voltage under load was too low (4.70).? Plugged directly into the computer, it works fine.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
The unit is a bit touchy about power.? I couldn't run it of the USB hub under my monitor, because the voltage under load was too low (4.70).? Plugged directly into the computer, it works fine.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Pretty sure I said yes on every option, except color of the case, where I selected blue. So I won't worry about it until the thing arrives. Though I was thinking have both in place, and use one for power? and the other for signal. Just in case it has trouble with the current draw. Instructions mentioned that could be a problem. Or I suppose I could cheat and put a connector on it for a wall wart. I've got a couple of those laying around here that put out a regulated 5VDC at half an amp. That would be plenty of power to run it. Somewhere here I have a USB-to parallel printer cable, but I don't think any of my remaining printers have the parallel interface. USB or Ethernet/WiFi these days. I guess I'll have to see if ftdi to USB will run a USB printer. Finding a Wordstar printer driver for my Epson Workforce WF-7620 might be interesting. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Sunday, August 2, 2020, 09:51:43 AM CDT, Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:
Bill, if you selected "Yes, Please" to the USB-Serial adapter option when you bought the full kit, it will come with one; that's what I'm using, and it works perfectly.,? That said, it looks pretty generic - it's just one of the board-level devices with a mini-USB socket on one end and a six-pin connector on the other, so any of the Arduino-type devices ought to work OK, too.? The ones you found on Amazon look identical to the one that came with the kit.
You only need one for the console to run CP/M effectively.? I've been considering building a TTL-RS-232 level shifter for the second port, and using it as a printer port (it's currently configured that way in the CP/M BIOS).
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Bill, if you selected "Yes, Please" to the USB-Serial adapter option when you bought the full kit, it will come with one; that's what I'm using, and it works perfectly.,? That said, it looks pretty generic - it's just one of the board-level devices with a mini-USB socket on one end and a six-pin connector on the other, so any of the Arduino-type devices ought to work OK, too.? The ones you found on Amazon look identical to the one that came with the kit.
You only need one for the console to run CP/M effectively.? I've been considering building a TTL-RS-232 level shifter for the second port, and using it as a printer port (it's currently configured that way in the CP/M BIOS).
~~
Mark Moulding
|
I've copied everything I could find on the internet, but I'll happily take anything you want to send my way, too. I do have a question for you on hardware, though. Can you recommend an ftdi card or cards so I can talk to the thing when it gets here.? I've got these sitting in my amazon cart, with some 4" jumper leads for hookup, but not sure this is the best option. Also don't know if I'll need two, or if just one will do.?
The Tindie site warns of possible long delays in shipping due to Covid-19, so no telling how long it will take for the hardware kit to get here. I got a book I bought from the UK in less than a week, but they seem to think it could be months, too.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Saturday, August 1, 2020, 09:32:06 PM CDT, Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:
Bill, I saved almost all of my CP/M stuff in files in my master "everything I've ever done" hard drive archive, so if there's anything you need (WordStar in file form, rather than disks), let me know.
I found a copy of Adventure (Colossal Cave) for CP/M, and copied that all into User space 1.? That's always good for a ten-minute break, too...
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Bill, I saved almost all of my CP/M stuff in files in my master "everything I've ever done" hard drive archive, so if there's anything you need (WordStar in file form, rather than disks), let me know.
I found a copy of Adventure (Colossal Cave) for CP/M, and copied that all into User space 1.? That's always good for a ten-minute break, too...
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Alright, Mark & Alison. This is your fault! I ordered one. I am absolutely not responsible for my own actions!?
I have to wonder if I'll have any clue how to run the silly thing. Though I did find my copy of Zaks' Introduction to Microprocessors the other day. Maybe I won't have to cry like a baby and beg for help. No bets. I think I still have my Wordstar 3 disks...?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Saturday, August 1, 2020, 07:40:42 PM CDT, Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:
Alison, I picked up a few weeks ago.? It went together in about an hour, and is very close to what you described.? It uses a Z-180 (Z*) code compatible, plus two serial ports (and some other stuff) on-chip.? It comes with a micro-SD pre-loaded with several versions of CP/M and a few others as well (Z-System, Forth, Basic).? Each "Hard drive" on the SD card is broken into 16 "Slices", each of which is the 8 MB maximum size for CP/M.? The whole thing is only a little bigger than a deck of cards, and costs about $75.? Looking at the listing on Tindie, it appears that it may not be available much longer...
It's really fun to use - I leave it plugged into my main computer (it can be powered from the USB-serial adapter).? Then when I'm working on something else and need a break, I just fire up my H-19 emulator, and away I go!? I've loaded WordStar (my favorite editor of that era), as well as Turbo Pascal (which achieved for me what P-System did for you), so I'm back in 1981.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
Alison, I picked up a few weeks ago.? It went together in about an hour, and is very close to what you described.? It uses a Z-180 (Z*) code compatible, plus two serial ports (and some other stuff) on-chip.? It comes with a micro-SD pre-loaded with several versions of CP/M and a few others as well (Z-System, Forth, Basic).? Each "Hard drive" on the SD card is broken into 16 "Slices", each of which is the 8 MB maximum size for CP/M.? The whole thing is only a little bigger than a deck of cards, and costs about $75.? Looking at the listing on Tindie, it appears that it may not be available much longer...
It's really fun to use - I leave it plugged into my main computer (it can be powered from the USB-serial adapter).? Then when I'm working on something else and need a break, I just fire up my H-19 emulator, and away I go!? I've loaded WordStar (my favorite editor of that era), as well as Turbo Pascal (which achieved for me what P-System did for you), so I'm back in 1981.
~~
Mark Moulding
|
>>>Early on, CP/M computers with primiive software and floppy disks really slowed software development. But that's all I had; I didn't know any better. It sure as heck beat a CPU manufacturer's development system with paper tape and a teletype! So I was in heaven. :-)<<<
I hear an Amen!? ?
For any system running off TTY and slow storge and minimal tools was a serious
handicap.
PRE CP/M development with SYS-8 (or the PT equivilent) was slow and awkward.
Same for any of the other CPUs.? The 1802 has the potential but most systems are?
low end so paper tape (cassette tape) wis about it and the tools are weak too.? I can?
say the exact same for 6800, 6502, Signetics 2650,8085, Ti9900, PDP-8, and many?
others.
FYI I believe the first break though was UCSD Pascal Psystem, in my case on
Northstar Horizon.? IT got me several things a language faster than interpreted
BASIC and better structured, a real IDE with a solid P-compiler and a real
screen editor.? In 1979 that was a big deal!? ?CP/M I'd been running since V1.3
and all of the neet stuff had to be transferred from 8"SSSD to NS* hard sector
5.25. With S100 it was easy to add a fairly low cost controller card and scrounge
up an 8" SC800 (loud and heavy) as a added disk and transfer media.? ?After that
C compilers started to appear (BDS-C was one of the good ones) and decent
configurable full screen editors like Vedit and programming became faster
and more efficient.
After 1977 (late in the year) I'd switched ot glass terminal and next year a real
printer (anadex DP800).? When CP/M that was a solid development platform and?
was mostly turnkey (no toggling in a boot).? From then to early 1980 I move from?
CPM V1.3, 1,4 then 2.2 and added third party tools.? The scheme was the box?
with a power switch and maybe reset and mass storage.? Front panel was passe.
AS to CP/M 86 on new hardware... that would be a task and a half.? IT was written
in base 8086 and did run well on any 8086/88 based XT class box.? It would morph
to CCPM.? DRI also had a version for Z8000 and its written in C (K&R dialect) and
that would be easier to port to newer or non x86 hardware.
For those really into it... go here???
also see?
My idea of a compact Z80 system would be 4mhz or faster (10mhz parts are easy to find)
64K ram mappable (and boot) 256K eprom (boot, system, base utilities (small romdisk) and
a larger mass storage such as uSD 1gb is far more than needed.? two serial port such as
Z80 dart).
Allison
|
I had much the same experience, though in addition to the H89 I also found a Kaypro II. I didn't and don't do much in the way of software development, but I did get online with a moderately hacked Turbo Pascal program and a 300baud modem on the H89. Once I moved to the PC, it was strictly appliance computing. I do wonder how hard it would be to make a version of CP/M-86 that would work well on the modern PC, and take advantage of all the memory and storage. I'm probably never going to know.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Thursday, July 30, 2020, 03:21:57 PM CDT, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
ajparent1/kb1gmx wrote:
> There are two forms of CP/M experience:
>? ? Small, slow and cramped typical of early floppies of 120 and 241K size.
>? ? High performance using fast large media (hard disks, IDE, CF, SD).? [snip]
That's a good summary of CP/M usage, Allison. It mirrors my experience
as well.
Early on, CP/M computers with primiive software and floppy disks really
slowed software development. But that's all I had; I didn't know any
better. It sure as heck beat a CPU manufacturer's development system
with paper tape and a teletype! So I was in heaven. :-)
As better CP/M editors, debuggers, assemblers, and compilers were
developed, it became much easier to develop code. Things like the SLR180
assembler and Turbo Pascal were great productivity tools.
Then hard drives and higher CPU clock speeds were added, and the
computer's speed no longer limited your productivity; the only limit was
YOUR speed and creativity!
For me personally, the PC was a setback. It put me back at the bottom of
the learning ladder. It was much slower than my Z80 system (a Heath H89
at the time), and its byzantine architecture made it much harder to use.
I tried, but by the late 1980's I gave up. PCs basically became an
appliance; a platform to run someone else's hardware and software. My
time and talents went into other hobbies (electric cars), and in
continuing to develop new applications for 8-bit microcomputers
professionally; areas where I felt I could still accomplish something.
After I retired, I felt a need to get back to when computers were FUN.
Something a beginner could learn and understand, and build and create
useful things themselves. It givee me a sense of accomplishment you
can't get by buying everything and running someone else's software.
My hope for the Z80MC is to get it to the point where *it* can be a good
platform for developing vintage hardware and software. Done right, it's
going to be easier to use it than try to do it on a PC! You can be
running your CP/M programs even before the PC finishes booting. :-)
Thus, I'm hunting around for a video/terminal application. That's the
obvious missing link.
Lee Hart
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
|
Lee Hart
Bill in OKC too