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Hello all,
Some time ago I deciphered the SysEx used in the famous Remote setup. Allegedly sending a message like: F0 43 7E 00 08 ss 7F F7 (where ss would be the number of section, between 08 and 0E) would cause QY70 to switch to the requested section. I tried it today with BCR 2000, but to no avail. Has anyone managed to achieve that?
Cheers,
Bruno
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Welcome to the group !
?I did alot of sysex stuff back in the day, but I haven’t heard of the remote setup.
Can you elaborate?
Cheers,
Eric
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“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Page 40 of the service manual there are some explanations how to do
Section Control (3-6-2). When ss = 08 it mean INTRO, Bruno maybe
you don't have a INTRO section ? dd = on/off need to check where is
the definition of 7F as you use.
Brahim @ Singapore
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Eric, YOUR Novation Remote templates !
i remember pattern Section being accessible, but not 'Style' number, which requires a Song Select message using F3h - which the RemoteSL cannot send.
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Hello all and thank you for such a quick response! Let me answer everyone at once ;-)
@Brahim: Even if Intro section was empty, it's still possible to select it and even play it, thus I doubt it was the case. Moreover, I programmed 7 buttons for all 7 sections and none of them worked. I'm not sure I have the Service Manual you mentioned, I am checking the Files section of the group and in fact it is there:
F0 - SysEx header 43 - Yamaha Manufacturer ID 7E - Style 00 - Section control ss - Section number (08..0E, corresponds to Intro..Blank) dd - On/Off (the comment says: "dd=on is received and the PATTERN will be changed to QY70's section INTRO, MAIN...")
F7 - SysEx footer
So yes, I got it wrong while reversing Eric's Novation Remote templates. Thank you, Brahim, for pointing me to the right place! Going to test it tonight, just don't know what the heck is "dd=on", but I believe that any non-zero value would do. The value I got from Eric's templates was 7F, so all bits set to 1, except the highest.
And while I'm here, let me describe my setup.
I have QY70, sequencing a bunch of hardware synths (Wavestate, Modwave, Opsix, microKorg, Access Virus, Waldorf Blofeld, E-mu Morpheus, E-mu Proteus 2000 and Novation Supernova). I use all 8 channels of a pattern/style to do melodic tracks, because I have better control over drums using E-mu MP7 Command Station. I generate the chords on Yamah ModX 6, and just recently managed to create a setup which allows me to pre-record chord changes as patterns in Scenes, giving me the whole keyboard for solo parts (obviously I keep one Scene empty, with the section of keyboard that generates chords available for playing for some ad-libs). I have all those goodies wired into Yamaha 01V96 digital mixer, beefed up with two MOTU 828 Firewire, so I can have 32 channels mixed AND recorded digitally on a computer.?
Apart from that I use Behringer BCR2000 for MIDI mixing and controlling the less knobby/accessible synths (like Virus, which is notorious for its crazy knobs). All this gear is wired to three MIDI (rather than RS port) chained Unitors – in fact only the first is important, as it does the routing between the MIDI generating devices, the other two just spread everything that is being passed.
I would lie if I didn't call it a complex system, it took me a few months to get it working properly. I really wanted to have the Section control on my BCR2000, because it's standing next to my ModX6, so it would make it much easier for me to do switch my things.
Actually, I was planning to add Korg microArranger to the pack, to make sure that every sound-generating device has its own MIDI channel. A small digression here: Supernova, as a truly multitimbral device (every part has its own FX setup, I wonder why no other manufacturer thought about it) stands for three: pad/arp, bass root and bass riff (if you play slash chords, both QY70 and microArranger ignore the bassline and keep only the rhythmic structure of it, while repeating the root note – splitting the bass line into two parts, one transposed as "bass" and one as "chord" solves the issue). That would yield even more channels that I have devices, so I could overlap them and use some of them for CCs only. To bring even more variety I was thinking about making microArranger patterns "regular", as in 16 bars of 4/4, while QY70 would use 7 bars of 8/4 (a trick to make QY70 patterns longer), or even 7 bars of 7/4. I tried it, but it requires a careful thinking about the rhythmic structure, but can yield interesting, ever-changing structures.
</ravings of dissociated mad scientist>
Once again, thanks for your instant help! I will let you know about my success or failure and will confirm the "On/Off" value.
Best regards,
Bruno
Eric, YOUR Novation Remote templates !
i remember pattern Section being accessible, but not 'Style' number, which requires a Song Select message using F3h - which the RemoteSL cannot send.
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Yeah, I realize that now… I originally thought the poster was talking about selecting a track rather than a section… Don’t know why that jumped into my mind.
Anyway, I will have to dig through the template to find the exact same sysex message I used….Since those files are only readable by the device, or the software, which I no longer have installed since I upgraded my laptop. ??
I will post back when I get a chance browse thru all those control templates..
However,, it sounds like another poster might be on the right track already.
It is worth mentioning that if you switch between Sections that are parts of *different* patterns (via the pattern track) there is a slight pause… I’m not sure if this is only on the device or if it would happen while sending sysex messages… Switching between sections in the same pattern, does not have any delay whatsoever though… That much I am certain.
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“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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… and I had no idea they were famous sinceI haven’t posted them publicly… (QYEdit, what have you been up to ?!? Lol!)
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
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On Feb 7, 2024, at 12:07?AM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:
?Eric, YOUR Novation Remote templates !
i remember pattern Section being accessible, but not 'Style' number, which requires a Song Select message using F3h - which the RemoteSL cannot send.
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“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Yeah, I realize that now… I originally thought the poster was talking about selecting a track rather than a section… Don’t know why that jumped into my mind.
While we are at it: is there any SysEx message that would correspond to muting a track? There is this message: F0 43 1n 4C 08 ch 0D vv F7 [n: device number, ch - channel: 10-17, vv - value: 0,1]
but it seems that it only disconnects the channel from the internal sound generator...
Anyway, for some weird reason, I can select "Main A" section from my BCR, but not other Sections. So it works, at least partially, I just need to find a bug and iron it out.
Cheers,
Bruno
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hey Eric ;-)
anyway, got it open here, found the templates in an old folder - heh the archive works ..
and Intro, mainA, mainB, etc. are selected with
43 7E 00 08 7F
43 7E 00 09 7F
43 7E 00 0A 7F
43 7E 00 0B 7F
43 7E 00 0C 7F
43 7E 00 0D 7F
with F0 at the start, and F7 at the end.
as i recall, this works.
those templates were pretty good for getting into the guts of the box in realtime.
i thought they were in the Files section but apparently not.
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You can also mute by just changing the volume to zero… obviously, not quite the same thing.
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“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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oh sorry yes, you wanted mutes. looks like?
for: Drum, Drum, P(erc?),Bass, C1,C2,C3,C4
(value 64,0 toggle )
43 10 4C 08 10 0D DV
43 10 4C 08 11 0D DV
43 10 4C 08 12 0D DV
43 10 4C 08 13 0D DV
43 10 4C 08 14 0D DV
43 10 4C 08 15 0D DV
43 10 4C 08 16 0D DV
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You can also mute by just changing the volume to zero… obviously, not quite the same thing.
Not really, because after unmuting you want to have the same volume.
?
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oh sorry yes, you wanted mutes. looks like?
for: Drum, Drum, P(erc?),Bass, C1,C2,C3,C4
(value 64,0 toggle )
43 10 4C 08 10 0D DV
That's resembles what I have in my notes:
F0 43 10 4C 08 cc 0D vv – where cc is channel (10-17), but I wasn't sure about the value. Might be that byte 0D controls not only muting, but mute/solo status, and high nibble "D" in the next byte means "mute". But "value 64" is 40 in hex, so wouldn't fit after D. I tested 00, 01, D0, D1, 3F, 40, 7F and none of them works. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
Cheers,
Bruno
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ah that one is 0/127.
DV is the value by the way.
what are you programming this on? in the template, these are assigned to toggle buttons.
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watch out for those mute buttons. there's no mute or solo accessible via sysex in the manual;
and now i remember some debate about how to achieve this at the time. it looks like Eric used ..?
OD = velocity sense offset? is that it? i remember note range being suggested: just switch the range off, and back on again, would keep your mix values.
other than that it doesn't look like you can automate mute/solo.
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watch out for those mute buttons. there's no mute or solo accessible via sysex in the manual;
and now i remember some debate about how to achieve this at the time. it looks like Eric used ..?
OD = velocity sense offset? is that it? i remember note range being suggested: just switch the range off, and back on again, would keep your mix values.
OK, so now I finally understand.
What I was testing, was sending the message and observing the status of the "M" icon on the display. This one obviously didn't change, because the trick is to use Velocity Sense Offset. BTW, should it really be 0 and 127? The default value is 64 (40 in hex).
? other than that it doesn't look like you can automate mute/solo.
Unfortunately. Mind you, since velocity sense offset is the internal XG parameter, this trick doesn't really work when QY70 is controlling external instruments.
Nevertheless, thank you all for your help. Sections are changing and this is already an achievement!
Best regards,
Bruno
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Not sure what I used, but I guess it was velocity offset… glad you got it working at least on the QY.
Cheers,
Eric
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“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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Not sure what I used, but I guess it was velocity offset… glad you got it working at least on the QY.
To be honest, I didn't check whether it works on QY70 itself. Even then, I would hesitate to use it, because – contrary to the regular muting – it doesn't give you any visual feedback on the screen (the BCR 2000 config would have to provide it).
But having the Section switching available on BCR2000 is already a huge improvment, thank you all! BTW: I figured that this part of SysEx is available also in the Data List booklet, I wonder why I didn't see it before. Being dumb is a terrible thing – believe me, 'cause I speak from experience :-)
Cheers,
Bruno
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Bruno,
I have to disagree, the fact you are working in sysex puts you firmly in the smart category. ?
Definitely not the easiest thing to learn…. and as I have proven, not the easiest to remember either, lol ! ?
BTW, I love the BCR2000!
I haven’t used mine in a while (I have 4 of them and 2 more for parts), but they are tremendous machines.
Have you ever tried the Zaquencer firmware for them? ?It is pretty amazing. ?I have it on 2 and stock firmware on the other 2.
BTW, feel free to upload your BCR2000 template to files section if you would like to share it (but it’s totally okay if you’d rather not).
Cheers,
Eric
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“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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so you have some response woo game on :-)
the benefit of the RemoteSL (Zero, here) is that you get a text display at the top
and 40 'pages'/templates to work with, if you want to do big mappings, and link templates and have a navigation system.
QY70/100/700, RM1x, are all 'XG' and the main parameters are all accessible via midiCC.
other functions are accessible via Sysex - eg: effects parameter edit, sequencer section select.
and then all the mentioned 'main parameters' are also accessible via Sysex, but in a different context:
- when you CHANGE with midiCC, it resets when you restart the Song (/¨Pattern?)
- when you SET with Sysex, these are Song/Pattern parameter values
the trouble with the Remote, and all controllers to date, is that they can't change lists dynamically, as you can with a script-driven object.
if every effect you call up has different parameters and value ranges, a regular controller box, or even a sophisticated one such as the RemoteSL, cannot do it.
you could do it in Ctrlr, with Lua, and then map up physical controls to onscreen ones with MIDI Learn ?
but you can still do it 'blind' with Eric's templates, and it improves the overall 'soundstaging' a lot.
not long after that, i got a RM1x, and that took my attention away from the QY, because it's essentially an oversized QY, with 16-section 'styles' and the same sound engine, but no arranger stuff, but with much longer patterns, and some realtime midi controls
- Ctrlr would be a solution.
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Eric
Brahim HAMADICHAREF