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Hi,
?
Welcome to the group!
?
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to achieve but a?song can only play one pattern section at a time. ?However?each pattern not only has 7 sections (Intro, Main A/B, Fill A/B, Ending) but also each of those sections has 8 tracks (each with their own instrument). ?So that still means that your single pattern’s “Intro” section could have 8 instruments… and of course a drumkit is actually only considered one instrument (even though it has many different sounds for all the pieces of the drumkit).
So what you would probably want to do on a QY70/100 is to just play all your drum sounds in the DR1 track in a pattern’s section.
?If you really wanted to, you could still play just the kick sound on the DR1 track and a Hi-Hat (or what not) on the DR2 track and a third drum sound on the PC (percussion) track and a fourth drum sound on the BS (Bass) track and a 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th drum sound on the C, C2, C3, C4 tracks. ?
Note: Although the tracks on a pattern are labeled as drum2, drum2, percussion, bass, etc, they can ALL be assigned to whatever instrument you want them to be… so each pattern’s section can be 8 tracks of drums if so desired. ?
?
I am not sure why Yamaha decided to give the pattern tracks specific names (instead of numbers like the song tracks) but they act the same as the song tracks insofar as any one of them can be assigned to any instrument (or to the same instrument if desired).
I have to admit I’m a little unsure as to why you want to split up the drums into individual tracks when you can play them all on one track, but everybody has their specific use cases… The main point is that you can achieve what you want but I think you need to look at it from a different direction since a song can only play a single section of a single pattern (but all 8 tracks of that pattern’s section) at a time. ?Even with just a single drum track drum track you can play as many different drum sounds as you want on that one track… You’re really only limited by the polyphony of the QY which is 32 (or 64… I can’t remember which right now).
One last note: If you’re going to assign drums to all of the tracks of a pattern then you probably want to ensure that the Chord Type is set to ‘bypass” for each of those tracks.
? ?(Accessed by the following buttons when your on the 1st Pattern Screen: Menu->Utility->Menu->Chord Phrase Table).
The reason is because if you decide to use the Chord progression feature in the 1st ?song screen then you don’t want the drums to be transposed or harmonized based upon the Chord progression.
Of course, if you are going to use ALL the tracks in a pattern as drums then you probably would not want to use the Chord progression feature at all, in which case you don’t need to worry about setting the Chord Type for each pattern track.
The QY70/100 manual is not too great as a reference, but it is actually really good in so far as it is a great step-by-step tutorial that walks you through most of the features of the machines. ? It kind of looks daunting initially but it goes by really really fast and it helps in getting your head wrapped around how all the patterns, tracks, and sections work.
I hope this helps,
Eric
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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lol *SIX* sections. ...
ok here's my take on it:
you have Pattern mode, and Song mode.
64 user patterns, called Styles, each of which has 6 sections,
plus a factory library of 128 pre-programmed 'styles'.
and 20 user-programmable Songs,
which are 16 tracks/parts, plus an accompaniment 'track'/part, where you chain patterns/styles.
you can, if you want, make a 'Song', and only use the pattern chain part, inserting 'sections' of
patterns, and the chord transposition feature.
but you also have linear Song tracks, that play alongside the pattern part.
a pattern/style has 8 tracks, loops in playback, and the sounds and mix are assigned via the mixer.
these tracks can be assigned to parts 1-8 or 9-16 (mapped to midi channels 1-16) and correspond
to parts:tracks/midi channels 1-16 in the Song mode, where sounds and mix are also assigned via
a mixer page.
and this is the slightly problematic bit - though it needn't be: pattern and song share tracks. the stuff
playing on the 1-8/9-16-assigned Pattern tracks are the same mixer tracks assigned in the Song mode.
so say you have a pattern section, just looping all the way through in song mode, you could just use the
corresponding song tracks to record midiCC changes. or overdub etc.
and then use the other 8 Song tracks for whatever you want.
or you can 'unpack' a (pattern) onto song tracks, with 'Get/Put Phrase' Job functions. eg: this would allow you
to introduce variations - also takes up more memory, since it isn't just repeating the data from the pattern.
you can also do this the other way round, jamming something into a Song track/part, and then grabbing a bit of
it, and copying it over into a Pattern track. this can be a more natural way of getting your performance take.
note that: every pattern/Style track recorded becomes a 'Phrase', that can be called up in any pattern 'Section',
on any 'Track' - which you can also do with the factory Styles. eg: so if you can't be bothered to record a drum
part, you can re-use bits of a factory Style in your new pattern/Style. (hence the terms Get/Put 'Phrase')
generally, starting with Pattern mode is better for jamming ideas and getting the parts of your song together.
alternatively, you could ignore Pattern mode, and play your stuff directly into Song mode tracks. or combine
the two. at simplest level, pattern sections looping on their 'pattern chain' part, with song tracks providing the
linear parts you want to add over the patterns.
one thing worth noting is that a Style is its own microcosm with its own mix/effects settings; when you go into
Song mode, the Song is 'boss', and its mixer/effect settings override the Style (at least i think? ...can you change
Voice assignments here, for the pattern playing? don't think so ...)
for example, i believe this because if you do something obscure like setting a channel midi out to 'off', you have to
input a sysex message in the Song mode, and call that up before getting your Pattern mode to play in the same way,
eg: excluding the midi output for that part. ( switching midi out per track is quite painful; wish they'd included it as a
standard function, like on the RM1x )
you can probably confirm all this using an external 16 part sound module, ignoring the QY70/100 audio output.
Eric refers to this as a 24 'midi channel' setup - i think it's 24 'tracks' (8+16), applied to 16 midi channels. but you'll
always have one side (1-8/9-16) of the Song setup sharing the voice channels with the Pattern mode.
i've never used Phrases much, but i think they could be really useful if you work a method like that - eventually, maybe:
using pattern first, and then expanding into a song is probably the easiest/fastest way to go.
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Yup, it’s 24 parts (with 24 channels actually) BUT most other pieces of MIDI equipment only recognize 16 channels, so that is why the QY70/100’s have ability to swap the 8 pattern tracks into either channels 1-8 or 9-16, but the QY itself actually works INTERNALLY with 24 unique channels (I mean if it didn’t then you couldn’t actually play a song on the QY that used all w4 (8+16) tracks.
It gets even crazier with the QY700 and its 64 MIDI tracks/channels (16 pattern tracks/channels plus 48 song tracks/channels), LOL! ? Although in fairness the QY700 has that enormous screen and a great User Interface so it makes routing a bit easier, though it’s still pretty daunting when you’re trying to output thru two midi ports to external equipment that only recognizes 16 channels.?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
-- “The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
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:-) LOL i wanna test this, man.. like, get a Proteus 2000 and see what happens. (P2K can do 32 midi ch)
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The issue is that the P2k has 2 midi ins (16 ch each) and the QY70/100 have only one out, so you won’t be able to send more that 16 ch out.
the qy700, with its 2 outs, allow 32 ch of outboard equipment, and yes, the p2k will allow 32 ch. is the 2 midi outs.
I used to sequence 21 synths with the? qy700, so no biggies there.
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On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:10 AM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:
?:-) LOL i wanna test this, man.. like, get a Proteus 2000 and see what happens. (P2K can do 32 midi ch)
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ah yeah... so in that case, just send the output to a DAW, and see what you get. i've always been under the impression that there's a midimerge going on with eg: pattern track and song track. maybe i have to rethink that, given that drum parts must be going out on channel10 (haven't used my QY100 for quite a while, have been using RM1x).
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Internally, the qy 70/100 route the channels to its synth, and internally it might have more than 16 channels, but it will never output via Midi DIN more than 16 channels (it’s a technical specification of midi). it’s just not possible.
the qy allows you to assign the track channel to an output channel, and you’ll see only 16, per output. No midi merge happens internally
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On Oct 23, 2021, at 3:45 AM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:
?ah yeah... so in that case, just send the output to a DAW, and see what you get. i've always been under the impression that there's a midimerge going on with eg: pattern track and song track. maybe i have to rethink that, given that drum parts must be going out on channel10 (haven't used my QY100 for quite a while, have been using RM1x).
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gonna have to dig it out and check eh
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I have to disagree (respectively of course!)
?
The MIDI spec might specify 16 channels, but you definitely can communicate above that. ?I have a Novation SL MK II that sends sysex info to the QY70/100 on channels 17 thru 24 (in addition to channels 1 thru 16). ? ?Granted, I am sending data to the QY70/100, not recieving it, but I would imagine it would work the other way as well, but the novation is a controller so I never used as an input device.
?
Pretty sure you could hook two QYs together and send data back and forth over all 24 channels. ?
I think the MIDI spec is just a minimum standard in this regard.
EDIT/UPDATE: ?Sorry, I might be confusing tracks and channels here, it’s been a while since I was knee-deep in sysex protocols. ;-)
?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
?
On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:05 AM, kaltar <kaltar@...> wrote:
Internally, the qy 70/100 route the channels to its synth, and internally it might have more than 16 channels, but it will never output via Midi DIN more than 16 channels (it’s a technical specification of midi). it’s just not possible.
?
the qy allows you to assign the track channel to an output channel, and you’ll see only 16, per output. No midi merge happens internally
On Oct 23, 2021, at 3:45 AM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:
ah yeah... so in that case, just send the output to a DAW, and see what you get. i've always been under the impression that there's a midimerge going on with eg: pattern track and song track. maybe i have to rethink that, given that drum parts must be going out on channel10 (haven't used my QY100 for quite a while, have been using RM1x).
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
|
Eric, I noticed your confusion. Sysex is channel independent. the MIDI spec allows values 0-F (0 to 15) for any defined status messages .? it really is a limit.
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Show quoted text
On Oct 24, 2021, at 1:37 PM, Eric <erichemingway@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
I have to disagree (respectively of course!)
?
The MIDI spec might specify 16 channels, but you definitely can communicate above that. ?I have a Novation SL MK II that sends sysex info to the QY70/100 on channels 17 thru 24 (in addition to channels 1 thru 16). ? ?Granted, I am sending data to the QY70/100, not recieving it, but I would imagine it would work the other way as well, but the novation is a controller so I never used as an input device.
?
Pretty sure you could hook two QYs together and send data back and forth over all 24 channels. ?
I think the MIDI spec is just a minimum standard in this regard.
EDIT/UPDATE: ?Sorry, I might be confusing tracks and channels here, it’s been a while since I was knee-deep in sysex protocols. ;-)
?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
?
On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:05 AM, kaltar <kaltar@...> wrote:
Internally, the qy 70/100 route the channels to its synth, and internally it might have more than 16 channels, but it will never output via Midi DIN more than 16 channels (it’s a technical specification of midi). it’s just not possible.
?
the qy allows you to assign the track channel to an output channel, and you’ll see only 16, per output. No midi merge happens internally
On Oct 23, 2021, at 3:45 AM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:
ah yeah... so in that case, just send the output to a DAW, and see what you get. i've always been under the impression that there's a midimerge going on with eg: pattern track and song track. maybe i have to rethink that, given that drum parts must be going out on channel10 (haven't used my QY100 for quite a while, have been using RM1x).
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
|
QYEdit, this answers a lot of questions.? All the messages here have been, thank you.
First, the patterns using up 8 of the tracks in song mode is what really threw me off.? I was wondering why settings were changing in the Variable Edit parameters, etc.? You mentioned a way to change that to 9-16.? I cant find that setting.
Eric, THIS is why i wanted to separate the drum tracks originally.? I wanted to EQ/Level them individually, but it seems i can do that with 8 of the tracks in song mode.? I realize you can only have *one* variable effect on the whole song, but i can work around that.
Next few questions.
1. If i have a pattern playing in (lets say) 9-16, there should be no "piano roll" data on that in song mode, correct?? If i want to record some variations on those tracks throughout the song, will that overdub or overwrite the pattern in those measures?? Also, you say song mode overrides pattern mode...so, does all of the EQ and FX settings i build in the pattern disappear when i use it in song mode...or are those additional controls?? For example, if i use a crossfade delay on the drum pattern, but have a different FX setting for song mode (ex: 3 band EQ). 2. I saw a video of a guy adding some sysex(?) messages to the beginning of a part in edit mode...in this case, to add portamento to a track.? Are there any more details on these workings, as i got it to work once, but not the other time.? Does it only work in pattern or song mode?
I love this community already. Im a long time MIDI and synth nerd, but never needed sysex that much, so thats still foreign.
-Agent 14?
lol *SIX* sections. ...
ok here's my take on it:
you have Pattern mode, and Song mode.
64 user patterns, called Styles, each of which has 6 sections,
plus a factory library of 128 pre-programmed 'styles'.
and 20 user-programmable Songs,
which are 16 tracks/parts, plus an accompaniment 'track'/part, where you chain patterns/styles.
you can, if you want, make a 'Song', and only use the pattern chain part, inserting 'sections' of
patterns, and the chord transposition feature.
but you also have linear Song tracks, that play alongside the pattern part.
a pattern/style has 8 tracks, loops in playback, and the sounds and mix are assigned via the mixer.
these tracks can be assigned to parts 1-8 or 9-16 (mapped to midi channels 1-16) and correspond
to parts:tracks/midi channels 1-16 in the Song mode, where sounds and mix are also assigned via
a mixer page.
and this is the slightly problematic bit - though it needn't be: pattern and song share tracks. the stuff
playing on the 1-8/9-16-assigned Pattern tracks are the same mixer tracks assigned in the Song mode.
so say you have a pattern section, just looping all the way through in song mode, you could just use the
corresponding song tracks to record midiCC changes. or overdub etc.
and then use the other 8 Song tracks for whatever you want.
or you can 'unpack' a (pattern) onto song tracks, with 'Get/Put Phrase' Job functions. eg: this would allow you
to introduce variations - also takes up more memory, since it isn't just repeating the data from the pattern.
you can also do this the other way round, jamming something into a Song track/part, and then grabbing a bit of
it, and copying it over into a Pattern track. this can be a more natural way of getting your performance take.
note that: every pattern/Style track recorded becomes a 'Phrase', that can be called up in any pattern 'Section',
on any 'Track' - which you can also do with the factory Styles. eg: so if you can't be bothered to record a drum
part, you can re-use bits of a factory Style in your new pattern/Style. (hence the terms Get/Put 'Phrase')
generally, starting with Pattern mode is better for jamming ideas and getting the parts of your song together.
alternatively, you could ignore Pattern mode, and play your stuff directly into Song mode tracks. or combine
the two. at simplest level, pattern sections looping on their 'pattern chain' part, with song tracks providing the
linear parts you want to add over the patterns.
one thing worth noting is that a Style is its own microcosm with its own mix/effects settings; when you go into
Song mode, the Song is 'boss', and its mixer/effect settings override the Style (at least i think? ...can you change
Voice assignments here, for the pattern playing? don't think so ...)
for example, i believe this because if you do something obscure like setting a channel midi out to 'off', you have to
input a sysex message in the Song mode, and call that up before getting your Pattern mode to play in the same way,
eg: excluding the midi output for that part. ( switching midi out per track is quite painful; wish they'd included it as a
standard function, like on the RM1x )
you can probably confirm all this using an external 16 part sound module, ignoring the QY70/100 audio output.
Eric refers to this as a 24 'midi channel' setup - i think it's 24 'tracks' (8+16), applied to 16 midi channels. but you'll
always have one side (1-8/9-16) of the Song setup sharing the voice channels with the Pattern mode.
i've never used Phrases much, but i think they could be really useful if you work a method like that - eventually, maybe:
using pattern first, and then expanding into a song is probably the easiest/fastest way to go.
--
----------
classic electronic music nerd
|
When you change the output of the pattern tracks it doesn’t overwrite anything in the song tracks it just doesn’t send midi data for those song tracks (1-8 or 9-16). ?As for what effects get applied, just try your example and see what happens (I just can’t remember right now).
There is a ton of information regarding sysex on the web, there are many standard midi sysex calls as well as Yamaha XG specific calls. ?It gets pretty deep, but the basics are covered on many sites. ?Sysex calls can be done in patterns or songs, they can also be sent, recieved and recorded into tracks (for setup type sysex msgs usually you place them ?in the first measure (and optionally on thier own track as it makes them easier to find … sysex messages generally specify the track to effect in the msg itself, so the sysex message can be on whatever track you want). ?If you put them all in the first measure, you just then start your song on the second measure. ?
QY70/100 FAQ: This is a great place to start learning about some if the cool tricks as well as basic info the manual might be sketchy on: ??
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 25, 2021, at 3:03 PM, Agent 14 <darceyciccone@...> wrote:
? QYEdit, this answers a lot of questions.? All the messages here have been, thank you.
First, the patterns using up 8 of the tracks in song mode is what really threw me off.? I was wondering why settings were changing in the Variable Edit parameters, etc.? You mentioned a way to change that to 9-16.? I cant find that setting.
Eric, THIS is why i wanted to separate the drum tracks originally.? I wanted to EQ/Level them individually, but it seems i can do that with 8 of the tracks in song mode.? I realize you can only have *one* variable effect on the whole song, but i can work around that.
Next few questions.
1. If i have a pattern playing in (lets say) 9-16, there should be no "piano roll" data on that in song mode, correct?? If i want to record some variations on those tracks throughout the song, will that overdub or overwrite the pattern in those measures?? Also, you say song mode overrides pattern mode...so, does all of the EQ and FX settings i build in the pattern disappear when i use it in song mode...or are those additional controls?? For example, if i use a crossfade delay on the drum pattern, but have a different FX setting for song mode (ex: 3 band EQ). 2. I saw a video of a guy adding some sysex(?) messages to the beginning of a part in edit mode...in this case, to add portamento to a track.? Are there any more details on these workings, as i got it to work once, but not the other time.? Does it only work in pattern or song mode?
I love this community already. Im a long time MIDI and synth nerd, but never needed sysex that much, so thats still foreign.
-Agent 14? lol *SIX* sections. ...
ok here's my take on it:
you have Pattern mode, and Song mode.
64 user patterns, called Styles, each of which has 6 sections,
plus a factory library of 128 pre-programmed 'styles'.
and 20 user-programmable Songs,
which are 16 tracks/parts, plus an accompaniment 'track'/part, where you chain patterns/styles.
you can, if you want, make a 'Song', and only use the pattern chain part, inserting 'sections' of
patterns, and the chord transposition feature.
but you also have linear Song tracks, that play alongside the pattern part.
a pattern/style has 8 tracks, loops in playback, and the sounds and mix are assigned via the mixer.
these tracks can be assigned to parts 1-8 or 9-16 (mapped to midi channels 1-16) and correspond
to parts:tracks/midi channels 1-16 in the Song mode, where sounds and mix are also assigned via
a mixer page.
and this is the slightly problematic bit - though it needn't be: pattern and song share tracks. the stuff
playing on the 1-8/9-16-assigned Pattern tracks are the same mixer tracks assigned in the Song mode.
so say you have a pattern section, just looping all the way through in song mode, you could just use the
corresponding song tracks to record midiCC changes. or overdub etc.
and then use the other 8 Song tracks for whatever you want.
or you can 'unpack' a (pattern) onto song tracks, with 'Get/Put Phrase' Job functions. eg: this would allow you
to introduce variations - also takes up more memory, since it isn't just repeating the data from the pattern.
you can also do this the other way round, jamming something into a Song track/part, and then grabbing a bit of
it, and copying it over into a Pattern track. this can be a more natural way of getting your performance take.
note that: every pattern/Style track recorded becomes a 'Phrase', that can be called up in any pattern 'Section',
on any 'Track' - which you can also do with the factory Styles. eg: so if you can't be bothered to record a drum
part, you can re-use bits of a factory Style in your new pattern/Style. (hence the terms Get/Put 'Phrase')
generally, starting with Pattern mode is better for jamming ideas and getting the parts of your song together.
alternatively, you could ignore Pattern mode, and play your stuff directly into Song mode tracks. or combine
the two. at simplest level, pattern sections looping on their 'pattern chain' part, with song tracks providing the
linear parts you want to add over the patterns.
one thing worth noting is that a Style is its own microcosm with its own mix/effects settings; when you go into
Song mode, the Song is 'boss', and its mixer/effect settings override the Style (at least i think? ...can you change
Voice assignments here, for the pattern playing? don't think so ...)
for example, i believe this because if you do something obscure like setting a channel midi out to 'off', you have to
input a sysex message in the Song mode, and call that up before getting your Pattern mode to play in the same way,
eg: excluding the midi output for that part. ( switching midi out per track is quite painful; wish they'd included it as a
standard function, like on the RM1x )
you can probably confirm all this using an external 16 part sound module, ignoring the QY70/100 audio output.
Eric refers to this as a 24 'midi channel' setup - i think it's 24 'tracks' (8+16), applied to 16 midi channels. but you'll
always have one side (1-8/9-16) of the Song setup sharing the voice channels with the Pattern mode.
i've never used Phrases much, but i think they could be really useful if you work a method like that - eventually, maybe:
using pattern first, and then expanding into a song is probably the easiest/fastest way to go.
-- ---------- classic electronic music nerd
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
|
On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:05 PM, Eric wrote:
"it just doesn’t send midi data for those song tracks (1-8 or 9-16)"
ah, had never thought of checking that. good info. also the Echo Back -you mean that's the equivalent of Local Off for each part/track channel? the only use i've had for sysex, included in a project, is to switch Local Off for individual channels, and this is done in Song Mode -the way this works is: you set up the sysex local off in a Song, and make that the selected Song, run it once, and then you can go to Pattern mode - if you were switching off tracks for a pattern - and the local offs will have been done. - until you change Songs in Song mode (i think?). it's quite easy to run a sysex message, there are several preset ones offered; just a bit laborious, compared to have individual parameters for it, like on the RM1x. but if you save a song with your local offs in it, you just call that one up when you want to do that setup. as for Patterns used in Song mode, i reckon they will? adopt the Song effect selections. (d*mn have to find a bit of time to have a look at all this, just not this week!)
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Eric