开云体育

Effects


 

开云体育

Group members- I’ve been working with both the QY70 and the QY100 for years now, and I’m getting pretty good at putting patterns, tracks, and songs together. However, I’m still searching for ways to use the QY’s effects better. If anyone has any basic settings, tips, or tricks you would like to offer for good reverbs, delay, echo, chorus, pan, distortion, etc., I would appreciate your input. The more details you care to include, the better. Thanks for keeping the group going.
Gary


On Jul 31, 2022, at 5:32 PM, jonah@... wrote:

?

[Edited Message Follows]

Hello,

Working w the QY70 and am stumped on an XG FX question:

I've been trying to figure out if there's a difference beyond the preset parameters in alternate bank FX (e.g. Chorus 1 vs 2 vs 3 vs 4). If I get under the hood w Sysex and set all the parameters, I can't tell much of a difference between them. This necessarily includes setting all the underlying XG params the FX UI doesn't display.

I've gone through the XG specs, the QY manual, and even other XG module list books. I found a single detail on differences: Phaser 1 and 2 provide alternate ranges for the 'Stage' parameter. According to page 12 of the QY70 List Book, Phaser 1 spans 6-10 stages, while Phaser 2 spans 3-5 stages.

The SW1000X list book has block diagrams for the effects, but the core of the algorithm is black boxed w/o details. Beyond that, the diagrams only show the overall algorithm's filters, feedback paths, early reflections, and mixers.

This question goes for Reverb 1 vs 2 vs 3, and all the alternate FX that constitute the bank variations for XG effects. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had time to go through each permutation and A/B them by ear.

Was hoping someone had a clue to why these variations exist when you can tweak them to sound the same by adjusting values under the hood.

Is the purpose to provide several preset starting points so that users don't have to mess w Sysex? Given the UI doesn't display all of an effect's parameters, did they figure most users would simply take them to be fundamentally different algorithms?

Thanks, J


 

Are you using a midi controller to affect changes while recording? ?There are quite a number of parameters under the hood, but as others have mentioned alot of the effects are tweaks of various parameters so you may find alot of coverage/overlap with other presets. ?I know alot of people pump the output of the QY though effect pedals and other gear to enhance or make the sounds more unique and interesting. ?Most modern synths (analog and digital) allow you to pass audio into them and use there filters and effects as a sort of effects send.. and of course chaining these device could even create more powerful and unique sounds (or completely muddy the sound depending on how hard everything is pushed/layered).

I recently purchased Line 6 Pod to pass some QY sound through it (as it was recommended in the quintessential ?QY70 FAQ file, but haven’t had a chance to hook it up yet.although I imagine just about any guitar pedal or synth could be used to quite a good effect. ?The reason I chose the Line 6 was because the model I is bought is tiny (Pocket Pod) and runs on batteries which keeps using the two devices very portable.?

As for internal effects modding, I created a pretty thorough midi controller layout for the Novation Remote MKII (the dual LED model) which allows you to tweak pretty much all of the effects params and control all of the tracks and channels ?but it is very convoluted (still a bit of a work in progress), not to mention it is very specific to the Novation Remote MKII hardware. ?The point is that the QY has a VERY deep midi implementation, but I think alot of it needs to be done by programming a good midi controller and probably tweaking params via overdubs to really make the internal effect engine shine. ?Even so, we are talking about about tech that was created well over 20 years ago, so my guess is passing the audio to another (newer, or possible analog) device might be a faster, simpler and more hands on way to go beyond just effects and more into the realm of unique sound design.

Cheers,
Eric


-- ?

“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu


 

Eric's novation mapping is very good. i have a RemoteSL mk1, and it works with that.
the effects all have different ranges so it wasn't possible to make a generic set of controls that worked with all of the - often the case with the effects section on many modules - but it still helped a lot to get a better mix, more intuitive, faster.

it got me thinking that a Ctrlr panel, or maybe an iPad editor would work well. (eg: could have a small iPad sitting next to the QY)


 

Hi Gary,

That's a broad question. Different effects give very different results, irrespective of settings. And even within a single effect, you can usually accomplish several different things.

I find it useful to first ask myself what I'm trying to accomplish. When I think of reverb, am I trying to extend an instrument's sustain? To place it in a space? Same space or different from the other instruments? Am I trying to make it less prominent in the mix? Do some experimental sound design?

Thinking through what I want to accomplish informs the settings.

Different effects answer different questions. For distortions, I ask myself if I'm trying to alter timbe. Or reduce dynamic range? Or bring it forward in the mix? Or tweak the tonal balance.

What musical task are you trying to accomplish?

Jonah

P.S. One thing I can recommend with certainty is to use shorter reverb times than the ones provided by the presets!

P.P.S. If you're really adventurous, try overdriving the effects internally by sending simultaneous duplicates of the same hot signal into the same send. You can even overdrive the analog output amp of the unit, which allows you to use the physical volume slider to vary the intensity.

Also fun to do Karplus Strong style resonator effects by reducing time-based effects' reverb/delay times to absolute minimum and play with high feedback levels. Then, all you have to do is send a 'tik' in.

You can get really creative with approaches like these.


 

开云体育

Jonah- Thanks for the reply. You’re right. I knew when I sent that query to the group that my question was fuzzy and unfocused. I was looking to gather samples of effects that had been used in various genres (rock, pop, country, reggae, jazz, etc.) from members who had had success in their past endeavors. And, I know this is all very subjective. Someday someone in our little pow wow needs to make videos of various aspects of the QY 70 and 100 and share his/her golden knowledge. Anyway, I’m getting there little by little and certainly enjoying the journey. Thanks again to you and all group members.
Gary


On Aug 3, 2022, at 10:53 AM, jonah@... wrote:

?

Hi Gary,

That's a broad question. Different effects give very different results, irrespective of settings. And even within a single effect, you can usually accomplish several different things.

I find it useful to first ask myself what I'm trying to accomplish. When I think of reverb, am I trying to extend an instrument's sustain? To place it in a space? Same space or different from the other instruments? Am I trying to make it less prominent in the mix? Do some experimental sound design?

Thinking through what I want to accomplish informs the settings.

Different effects answer different questions. For distortions, I ask myself if I'm trying to alter timbe. Or reduce dynamic range? Or bring it forward in the mix? Or tweak the tonal balance.

What musical task are you trying to accomplish?

Jonah

P.S. One thing I can recommend with certainty is to use shorter reverb times than the ones provided by the presets!

P.P.S. If you're really adventurous, try overdriving the effects internally by sending simultaneous duplicates of the same hot signal into the same send. You can even overdrive the analog output amp of the unit, which allows you to use the physical volume slider to vary the intensity.

Also fun to do Karplus Strong style resonator effects by reducing time-based effects' reverb/delay times to absolute minimum and play with high feedback levels. Then, all you have to do is send a 'tik' in.

You can get really creative with approaches like these.


 
Edited

Hi Gary,

Nothing wrong with a general inquiry!

I don't have specific samples of effects common to particular genres, but the preset patterns are good to study for some starting points.

If you're inclined to experiment and do some trial and error, here are some general rules of thumb:

Rock

Overdrive, distortion, and autowah are commonly used on rhythm instruments. Because there is so much repetition in those parts, variation in timbre becomes paramount, and effects are used to add texture. Modulation effects (chorus, flanger, phaser) are sometimes used in this way to highlight a particular part.

Subtle reverb or EQ cuts to mid frequencies are used to make parts less prominent in the mix. Drums generally have lower amounts of reverb, with snare usually having noticeably more applied.

Delay may be used for rhythmic effect, and delay times are generally set in some relation to underlying timing.

Pop

Cleaner textures, carefully controlled dynamics, and often more space here. Arrangements will have less sonic overlap and be more sculpted. EQ and filters are used to carve away everything but essential frequencies for a particular voice.

The lack of freqency clutter leaves space for longer reverb times without creating sonic mush.

The lead voice will be a lot more prominent in the mix than the accompaniment, and will tend to have more reverb to stretch out in.

Country

Unless it's a ballad, country tends to have more percussive rhythmic parts. Very short delays help fill out the space between notes and can augment the rhythm. Delays will be more useful here than reverb.

Classic country can also have complex harmonies, which means lower levels of reverb so the changes are smeared into each other.

If a song in this genre has bluesy elements, more of the tips for rock will be relevant (e.g. overdriven guitar). If it's a ballad, slower changes and a lot more reverb to blend things are common.

Reggae

Often darker mixes, so lowpass filters and mid cuts are your friend. Bass parts are generally all bottom, with almost all of the top end and most of the mid sculpted away.

A ton of long reverb is common, but selectively applied (either to a particular voice, or even a particular note). The snare will generally have a lot of reverb, though slower hihat and kick parts sometimes do, too.

Delays are used to add ghost notes and counter-rhythms to percussion parts like hats, shakers, etc. In this case, settings related in time to the underlying rhythm are helpful.

Effects are also used in idiomatic ways, like phaser on keys, autowah on guitar. But especially hits on the offbeat selectively sent to looong reverbs and delays that are slightly out of time w the rhythm. So automating the sends w CC's will be important here.

Jazz

Depends on how many instruments you're working with here, but for fewer voices, reverbs will be warm, and shorter with more pre-delay. This gives an intimate feel. Big band will focus more on unified harmonies, blended by reverb. Jump material will be more careful with time-based effects, so the rhythms remain articulate.

Effects for their own sake are used sparingly. A more naturalistic sound is valued here. Top end will be rolled off, overdrive/distortion will be minimal, if at all.


As you can see, while generalizations are possible, specific applications of effects have everything to do with the material being processed, the number and kind of voices, the arrangement, tempo, etc.

I can tell you that a short slapback delay will make a chicken-picken' guitar sound more country, but even then, specific time and tone settings are going to differ depending on tempo, mood, and arrangement. To zoom out a bit, it comes down more to the "effect" you want to achieve, rather than the FX themselves.

Good luck!

J


 

开云体育

Jonah- A heartfelt thank you for your reply! It was above and beyond the call of duty! I will keep your comments in my notes and reference them frequently going forward. Just curious, have you ever posted videos of you using either QY 70 or 100 sequencer, exploring the various features, and offering your thoughts as you go? You seem to have a firm command of the subject and the everyman vocabulary (not just tech speak) to explain in detail. Anyway, thanks again to you and the club members for your support.
Gary


On Aug 5, 2022, at 1:32 PM, jonah@... wrote:

?

Nothing wrong with a general inquiry!

I don't have specific samples of effects common to particular genres, but the preset patterns are good to study for some starting points.

If you're inclined to doing some trial and error experimentation, are some general rules of thumb:

##Rock

Overdrive, distortion, and autowah are commonly used on rhythm instruments. Because there is so much repetition in those parts, variation in timbre becomes paramount, and effects are used to add texture. Modulation effects (chorus, flanger, phaser) are used iin this way to highlight a particular part.

Subtle reverb or EQ cuts to mid frequencies are used to make parts less prominent in the mix. Drums generally have lower amounts of reverb, with snare usually having noticeably more applied.

Delay may be used for rhythmic effect, and delay times are generally set in some relation to underlying timing.

##Pop

Cleaner textures, carefully controlled dynamics, and often more space here. Arrangements will have less sonic overlap and be more sculpted. EQ and filters are used to carve away everything but essential frequencies for a particular voice.

The lack of freqency clutter leaves space for longer reverb times without creating sonic mush.

The lead voice will be a lot more prominent in the mix than the accompaniment, and will tend to have more reverb to stretch out in.

##Country

Unless it's a ballad, country tends to have more percussive rhythmic parts. Very short delays help fill out the space between notes and can augment the rhythm. Delays will be more useful here than reverb.

Classic country can also have complex harmonies, which means lower levels of reverb so the changes are smeared into each other.

If a song in this genre has bluesy elements, more of the tips for rock will be relevant (e.g. overdriven guitar). If it's a ballad, slower changes and a lot more reverb to blend things are common.

##Reggae

Often darker mixes, so lowpass filters and mid cuts are your friend. Bass parts are generally all bottom, with almost all of the top end and most of the mid sculpted away.

A ton of long reverb is common, but selectively applied (either to a particular voice, or even a particular note). The snare will generally have a lot of recerb, though slower hihat and kick parts sometimes do, too.

Delays are used to add ghost notes and counter-rhythms to percussion parts like hats, shakers, etc. In this case, settings related in time to the underlying rhythm are helpful.

Effects are also used in idiomatic ways, like phaser on keys, autowah on guitar. But especially hits on the offbeat selectively sent to looo g reverbs and delays that are slightly out of time w the rhythm. So automating the sends w CC's will be important here.

##Jazz

Depends on how many instruments you're working with here, but for fewer voices, reverbs will be warm, and shorter with more pre-delay. This gives an intimate feel. Big band will focus more on unified harmonies, blended by reverb. Jump material will be more careful with time-based effects, so the rhythms remain articulate.

Effects for their own sake are used sparingly. A more naturalistic sound is valued here. Top end will be rolled off, overdrive/distortion will be minimal, if at all.

As you can see, while generalizations are possible, specific applications of effects have everything to do with the material being processed, the number and kind of voices, the arrangement, tempo, etc.

I can tell you that a short slapback delay will make a chicken-picken' guitar sound more country, but even then, specific time and tone settings are going to be different depending on tempo, mood, and arrangement. To zoom out a bit, it comes down more to the "effect" you want to achieve, rather than the FX themselves.

Good luck!

J


 

mate, why are we getting at least FOUR postings of everything you post? you're clogging my inbox.
ONLY POST ONCE please.
thanks.


 

开云体育

I noticed the same thing on my end. I’ll investigate.

Get


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...>
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 2:17:28 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [YamahaQY70AndQY100] Effects
?
mate, why are we getting at least FOUR postings of everything you post? you're clogging my inbox.
ONLY POST ONCE please.
thanks.


 
Edited

My pleasure, Gary, glad you found it helpful.

I appreciate the compliments, too. No, I don't have any videos or tutorials. I prefer to use my digital media time to work on music. I always have time for writing, though. ?

Feel free to post back with updates regarding your musical development. I'm curious to hear about your experiences moving forward.

J


 

Thanks for the heads up, re: multiple emails.

I am exclusively using the web interface, which allows editing of posts. It's not clear that this also sends a new email with each edit. I'm assuming that's the cause here. Mea culpa. I'll avoid this "feature" in the future.

(FYI, the web interface does not inherently indicate the intended recipient of a message, either, so it took me a second to figure out this complaint might be directed at me.)


 

just got 4 identical emails from Roland Global, if it's any consolation.


 

Glad we resolved the multi email issue. I've never made a mistake.? Thanks for the time and instructions. I’ll keep you posted.
Gary

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 3:46 PM QYedit via <domgoold=[email protected]> wrote:
just got 4 identical emails from Roland Global, if it's any consolation.

--
Gary Snyder
949-274-5515
garypsnyder@...


 

开云体育

Consider yourself lucky: I only got 2 from Roland advertising their piano App

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:46 PM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:

?just got 4 identical emails from Roland Global, if it's any consolation.


 

Gotta send Roland a cease and desist... no one infringes on my patented "powers of 2" email repetition technique without consequences!