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Hello! I wonder if anyone can help me? I've been using my QY100s as tone generators driven from Cakewalk. When I've finished creating my sequences in Cakewalk I plan to upload them to the QYs so I can be PC-free when I play gigs, but that's another subject. What I'm hoping someone can tell me is how to select the drum kits by sending bank/patch from the PC. It's so easy to select the voices but I can't seem to find how to select the drum kits and I have to admit I'm not very good at reading MIDI implementation charts. I've spent quite a lot of time on this to no avail so I'm really hoping for someone to put me straight. Many thanks Giles
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this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
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Hello! Thanks for this. It's definitely doing something! I sent CC00 and CC32 to correspond to MSB=127 and LSB=0 and then a patch change that matches the PGM# in the Drum Voice list. This worked when I selected the option in Cakewalk to send the program change
using CC32. I tried this on several different channels and was able to select different kits. So, I thought I'd create a template to do this on all channels to initialize the QY with a different kit on each channel. The first four channels worked perfectly
and were set to "standard" "standard2", "dry" and "bright", but channels five to sixteen were all set to DS2. I saved my Cakewalk file and restarted Cakewalk and reopened it. The controller 0 and 32 events have disappeared and the patch change messages have
been changed from controller 32 to normal and a big bank number calculated. When I play the sequence everything is set to DS2. I think I will manually set the kits how I want them on a bunch of songs and send my sequence to that song to get the mappings I
want. I'm spending too much time trying to get the the PC to talk to the QY and not making any music! Thanks again for your help. Best Giles ?
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Show quoted text
this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
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Hi Giles,
the midi implementation pages 4 to 9 indicates that the available drum kits are on CC 1-4 then jumps to 9, then ?10 and 17 (that is, no drum kit for CC 5,6,7,8,11,12,13,14,15,16,19, etc.) That’s why you are not getting the drum kits assigned.
Back in the GM days, it was standard to set channel 10 for the drums, and the sound modules only allowed on drum kit at the time (on CH 10). I don’t know in there is a limit on drum kits simultaneously on the QY100 but for sure you are assigning incorrect values.
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On Jan 29, 2021, at 1:04 PM, Giles Boardman <giles.boardman@...> wrote:
?
Hello! Thanks for this. It's definitely doing something! I sent CC00 and CC32 to correspond to MSB=127 and LSB=0 and then a patch change that matches the PGM# in the Drum Voice list. This worked when I selected the option in Cakewalk to send the program change
using CC32. I tried this on several different channels and was able to select different kits. So, I thought I'd create a template to do this on all channels to initialize the QY with a different kit on each channel. The first four channels worked perfectly
and were set to "standard" "standard2", "dry" and "bright", but channels five to sixteen were all set to DS2. I saved my Cakewalk file and restarted Cakewalk and reopened it. The controller 0 and 32 events have disappeared and the patch change messages have
been changed from controller 32 to normal and a big bank number calculated. When I play the sequence everything is set to DS2. I think I will manually set the kits how I want them on a bunch of songs and send my sequence to that song to get the mappings I
want. I'm spending too much time trying to get the the PC to talk to the QY and not making any music! Thanks again for your help. Best Giles ?
this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
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Hello! And thanks again. I'm just not getting this at all - I send messages from Cakewalk to the QY on Channel 1 and I can select any drum kit by changing the parameter to match the PGM# in the chart. If I change the messages to be sent on Channel 2, it's the
same. But if I send messages on other channels the result is unpredictable. So, I'm thinking that it's a coincidence when it works and I need to understand more about CC and how to enter events into Cakewalk to be sent to the QY. In the meantime, I can set
the drums manually, which is no big deal. I think educating myself properly about MIDI will take longer. But your help is greatly appreciated and I will persevere - just not now lol. Giles?
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Hi Giles,
the midi implementation pages 4 to 9 indicates that the available drum kits are on CC 1-4 then jumps to 9, then ?10 and 17 (that is, no drum kit for CC 5,6,7,8,11,12,13,14,15,16,19, etc.) That’s why you are not getting the drum kits assigned.
Back in the GM days, it was standard to set channel 10 for the drums, and the sound modules only allowed on drum kit at the time (on CH 10). I don’t know in there is a limit on drum kits simultaneously on the QY100 but for sure you are assigning
incorrect values.
On Jan 29, 2021, at 1:04 PM, Giles Boardman <giles.boardman@...> wrote:
?
Hello! Thanks for this. It's definitely doing something! I sent CC00 and CC32 to correspond to MSB=127 and LSB=0 and then a patch change that matches the PGM# in the Drum Voice list. This worked when I selected the option in Cakewalk to send the program change
using CC32. I tried this on several different channels and was able to select different kits. So, I thought I'd create a template to do this on all channels to initialize the QY with a different kit on each channel. The first four channels worked perfectly
and were set to "standard" "standard2", "dry" and "bright", but channels five to sixteen were all set to DS2. I saved my Cakewalk file and restarted Cakewalk and reopened it. The controller 0 and 32 events have disappeared and the patch change messages have
been changed from controller 32 to normal and a big bank number calculated. When I play the sequence everything is set to DS2. I think I will manually set the kits how I want them on a bunch of songs and send my sequence to that song to get the mappings I
want. I'm spending too much time trying to get the the PC to talk to the QY and not making any music! Thanks again for your help. Best Giles ?
this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
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One idea is to repeat what you found to be successful but this time have the QY100 ? recording?the commands to a dedicated track... Then keep that track section and copy it to other QY songs as needed... Just start your actual drum parts on measure two. ?
I hope that makes sense.?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
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Show quoted text
On Jan 29, 2021, at 2:04 PM, Giles Boardman <giles.boardman@...> wrote:
?
Hello! Thanks for this. It's definitely doing something! I sent CC00 and CC32 to correspond to MSB=127 and LSB=0 and then a patch change that matches the PGM# in the Drum Voice list. This worked when I selected the option in Cakewalk to send the program change
using CC32. I tried this on several different channels and was able to select different kits. So, I thought I'd create a template to do this on all channels to initialize the QY with a different kit on each channel. The first four channels worked perfectly
and were set to "standard" "standard2", "dry" and "bright", but channels five to sixteen were all set to DS2. I saved my Cakewalk file and restarted Cakewalk and reopened it. The controller 0 and 32 events have disappeared and the patch change messages have
been changed from controller 32 to normal and a big bank number calculated. When I play the sequence everything is set to DS2. I think I will manually set the kits how I want them on a bunch of songs and send my sequence to that song to get the mappings I
want. I'm spending too much time trying to get the the PC to talk to the QY and not making any music! Thanks again for your help. Best Giles ?
this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
|
Hi Eric,
remember your Novation RemoteSL MIDI templates? and that we found out that MIDI CC reset at the top each time, and that sysex commands were better for 'setting'? (parameters) ?
actually there is another matter here with this that i remember, that might have some bearing: if you want to use a sysex command - say, to switch Local Off on any given Track/Part (which is what i was doing one time, so that i could have some QY sounds -drums-, whilst sequencing an exterior sound module on other Tracks) - i had to set up the sysex messages at the top of one of the SONGS, so that i could have the MIDI Local Off on those Tracks, in PATTERN mode.
so i'm thinking, maybe, these Bank/ProgramChange messages need to be sent to the QY on Song tracks, for them to be effective in the Pattern mode. you were saying there were 8 + 16 = 24 tracks. but it is still just 16 midi channels, and the Pattern mode voice assign uses the Song mode assignments (1-8 or 9-16), and maybe this has some bearing here. (i can't remember if there was a way to assign voices via sysex instead of BankSel/ProgChng)
(soz, response is a bit convoluted .. )
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That's a thought - I'll try that. For what I'm doing at the moment, auditioning sequences with different kits, having a song that is all drums and NOT sending program changes is not as fiddly as I feared but when I'm done and want to prep the QY for gigging
your suggestion could be the answer. Thanks ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
One idea is to repeat what you found to be successful but this time have the QY100 ? recording?the commands to a dedicated track... Then keep that track section and copy it to other QY songs as needed... Just start your actual drum parts
on measure two. ?
I hope that makes sense.?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
On Jan 29, 2021, at 2:04 PM, Giles Boardman <giles.boardman@...> wrote:
?
Hello! Thanks for this. It's definitely doing something! I sent CC00 and CC32 to correspond to MSB=127 and LSB=0 and then a patch change that matches the PGM# in the Drum Voice list. This worked when I selected the option in Cakewalk to send the program change
using CC32. I tried this on several different channels and was able to select different kits. So, I thought I'd create a template to do this on all channels to initialize the QY with a different kit on each channel. The first four channels worked perfectly
and were set to "standard" "standard2", "dry" and "bright", but channels five to sixteen were all set to DS2. I saved my Cakewalk file and restarted Cakewalk and reopened it. The controller 0 and 32 events have disappeared and the patch change messages have
been changed from controller 32 to normal and a big bank number calculated. When I play the sequence everything is set to DS2. I think I will manually set the kits how I want them on a bunch of songs and send my sequence to that song to get the mappings I
want. I'm spending too much time trying to get the the PC to talk to the QY and not making any music! Thanks again for your help. Best Giles ?
this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?-
Lao Tzu
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Interesting. I often used pattern tracks in my songs, but all CC/MIDI data I kept in the song track 16 IIRC I never used or inserted CCmidi data into pattern tracks, but if one does, I think youd need to 'expand job' the pattern data to a song track if you wanted to then utilise sysex insert commands....IIRC....it was YEARS ago I ever did such a thing... I just read the thread and I remembered this 'expand job' function... Tahts all :D
On Sunday, 31 January 2021, 12:46:56 CET, Giles Boardman <giles.boardman@...> wrote:
That's a thought - I'll try that. For what I'm doing at the moment, auditioning sequences with different kits, having a song that is all drums and NOT sending program changes is not as fiddly as I feared but when I'm done and want to prep the QY for gigging
your suggestion could be the answer. Thanks ?
One idea is to repeat what you found to be successful but this time have the QY100 ? recording?the commands to a dedicated track... Then keep that track section and copy it to other QY songs as needed... Just start your actual drum parts
on measure two. ?
I hope that makes sense.?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
On Jan 29, 2021, at 2:04 PM, Giles Boardman <giles.boardman@...> wrote:
?
Hello! Thanks for this. It's definitely doing something! I sent CC00 and CC32 to correspond to MSB=127 and LSB=0 and then a patch change that matches the PGM# in the Drum Voice list. This worked when I selected the option in Cakewalk to send the program change
using CC32. I tried this on several different channels and was able to select different kits. So, I thought I'd create a template to do this on all channels to initialize the QY with a different kit on each channel. The first four channels worked perfectly
and were set to "standard" "standard2", "dry" and "bright", but channels five to sixteen were all set to DS2. I saved my Cakewalk file and restarted Cakewalk and reopened it. The controller 0 and 32 events have disappeared and the patch change messages have
been changed from controller 32 to normal and a big bank number calculated. When I play the sequence everything is set to DS2. I think I will manually set the kits how I want them on a bunch of songs and send my sequence to that song to get the mappings I
want. I'm spending too much time trying to get the the PC to talk to the QY and not making any music! Thanks again for your help. Best Giles ?
this page explains the Yamaha way of doing things. you have to send BankSelect MSB *and* LSB CCs first, and then the program change.
3 MIDI CCs.
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/bank-select-and-program-change-event
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?-
Lao Tzu
|
Good points.
I never found any other way to set instruments except thru (BankSel/ProgChng) pairs... which is odd, since the QY does it with a single plus/minus button press...but of course they are probably just setting both behind the scenes. ?
Always wished I could set one rotary as an instrument selector on the Novation, but could not as it only allows one sysex or CC per control. ?
The MIDI 1.0 Spec is definitely 16 channels, but the new MIDI 2.0 spec (present in Jan 2020) will increase this to 256.... The QY70/100 can send/recieve 16 channels (by swapping tracks 9thru 16 and 17 to 24)..
Of course, then there is the QY700, than has 48 tracks (16 pattern, 32 song)...which has gotta be like stuffing 10lbs of potatos in a 5lb bag when it comes to sending it over 16 channels. ?LOL!?
["The longest journey starts with the first step."?- Lao Tzu]
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On Jan 31, 2021, at 4:11 AM, QYedit via groups.io <domgoold@...> wrote:
?Hi Eric,
remember your Novation RemoteSL MIDI templates? and that we found out that MIDI CC reset at the top each time, and that sysex commands were better for 'setting'? (parameters) ?
actually there is another matter here with this that i remember, that might have some bearing: if you want to use a sysex command - say, to switch Local Off on any given Track/Part (which is what i was doing one time, so that i could have some QY sounds -drums-, whilst sequencing an exterior sound module on other Tracks) - i had to set up the sysex messages at the top of one of the SONGS, so that i could have the MIDI Local Off on those Tracks, in PATTERN mode.
so i'm thinking, maybe, these Bank/ProgramChange messages need to be sent to the QY on Song tracks, for them to be effective in the Pattern mode. you were saying there were 8 + 16 = 24 tracks. but it is still just 16 midi channels, and the Pattern mode voice assign uses the Song mode assignments (1-8 or 9-16), and maybe this has some bearing here. (i can't remember if there was a way to assign voices via sysex instead of BankSel/ProgChng)
(soz, response is a bit convoluted .. )
--
“The longest journey starts with the first step." ?- Lao Tzu
|
akai mpc500 (and the others) claim to have '48 tracks' - but it's a completely different method, with each *pad* having its own sequencer track, irrespective of MIDI. it is completely confusing and messed up, if you're used to straightforward midi channel use. of course it just refers to a single midi note, and its course along the timeline.
i think our friend's issue has more to do with Cakewalk's handling of banksel+progch - am not using DAWs for this kind of thing -ha, so i'm not going there ! :P
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I think you have hit the nail on the head - it's more about Cakewalk than the QY but mostly about my incomplete understanding of both and MIDI too haha
toggle quoted message
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akai mpc500 (and the others) claim to have '48 tracks' - but it's a completely different method, with each *pad* having its own sequencer track, irrespective of MIDI. it is completely confusing and messed up, if you're used to straightforward midi channel
use. of course it just refers to a single midi note, and its course along the timeline.
i think our friend's issue has more to do with Cakewalk's handling of banksel+progch - am not using DAWs for this kind of thing -ha, so i'm not going there ! :P
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Eric
squishy