开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 开云体育
  1. YamahaDX
  2. Topics

[TG77]change multi voices on the fly?

 

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans
 

SY/TG77 has rather complicated way of selecting patches because those times Bank Select command was not yet standardized. Select Direct Program Change mode. Set Device Number to 1.
Try these two possibilities (but I haven’t tried them so maybe I’m wrong):

---------
With Program Change (explanation in the manual is not quite clear):

Send two PC commands on the channel where you want to change patch:
First:
121 for bank Preset 1 patch
118 for bank Preset 2 patch
119 for Internal or Cartridge bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)
120 for Cartridge or Internal bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)

Second:
0 to 63 for patch in the bank

---------
With SysEx:

Send two SysEx commands:
First: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 01 00 V2 F7
where:
c = channel in Multi where patch select should be done
V2:
00 = Internal bank
01 = Cartridge bank
02 = Preset 1 bank
03 = Preset 2 bank

Second: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 02 00 V2 F7
where:
V2 = 00 to 3F (to select patch 1 to 64 in the bank)

Let me know if it works.

Daniel Forro

On Aug 5, 2021, at 17:51, hwk <hansw.koch@...> wrote:

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans
 

thank you, daniel,

(i was secretly hoping, you might have an answer :-)
its a good start, i will experiment and report back (might take me a couple of days)

all best
hans

Am 05.08.2021 um 11:55 schrieb Daniel Forró via groups.io <danforcz@...>:

SY/TG77 has rather complicated way of selecting patches because those times Bank Select command was not yet standardized. Select Direct Program Change mode. Set Device Number to 1.
Try these two possibilities (but I haven’t tried them so maybe I’m wrong):

---------
With Program Change (explanation in the manual is not quite clear):

Send two PC commands on the channel where you want to change patch:
First:
121 for bank Preset 1 patch
118 for bank Preset 2 patch
119 for Internal or Cartridge bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)
120 for Cartridge or Internal bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)

Second:
0 to 63 for patch in the bank

---------
With SysEx:

Send two SysEx commands:
First: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 01 00 V2 F7
where:
c = channel in Multi where patch select should be done
V2:
00 = Internal bank
01 = Cartridge bank
02 = Preset 1 bank
03 = Preset 2 bank

Second: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 02 00 V2 F7
where:
V2 = 00 to 3F (to select patch 1 to 64 in the bank)

Let me know if it works.

Daniel Forro


On Aug 5, 2021, at 17:51, hwk <hansw.koch@...> wrote:

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans
 

hello daniel,

preliminary results:
1. the table of bank selects for direct program changes given in the manual on p. 175 seems to contain errors.
my findings are:
117: ?
118: preset2
119: preset2
120: internal
121: card
122: preset1
123: internal
124: card
125: preset1
126: preset1
127: ?

2. setting program change to “direct" and sending different bank select commands + following voice select commands on 2 different midi-cannels puts the TG back in voice mode.

3. setting program change to “normal” and sending voice select commands (1-64) on different midi-cannels works.

conclusion for my original goal:
- its possible to change voices in a multi on the fly. (hooray!)
- it doesn?t seem possible to dynamically change between preset I, preset II and internal though.

didn?t test with sysex yet.

thanks daniel for jump starting me,

best
hans

Am 05.08.2021 um 11:55 schrieb Daniel Forró via groups.io <danforcz@...>:

SY/TG77 has rather complicated way of selecting patches because those times Bank Select command was not yet standardized. Select Direct Program Change mode. Set Device Number to 1.
Try these two possibilities (but I haven’t tried them so maybe I’m wrong):

---------
With Program Change (explanation in the manual is not quite clear):

Send two PC commands on the channel where you want to change patch:
First:
121 for bank Preset 1 patch
118 for bank Preset 2 patch
119 for Internal or Cartridge bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)
120 for Cartridge or Internal bank patch (depending on actual patch in Multi)

Second:
0 to 63 for patch in the bank

---------
With SysEx:

Send two SysEx commands:
First: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 01 00 V2 F7
where:
c = channel in Multi where patch select should be done
V2:
00 = Internal bank
01 = Cartridge bank
02 = Preset 1 bank
03 = Preset 2 bank

Second: F0 43 10 34 01 0c 00 02 00 V2 F7
where:
V2 = 00 to 3F (to select patch 1 to 64 in the bank)

Let me know if it works.

Daniel Forro


On Aug 5, 2021, at 17:51, hwk <hansw.koch@...> wrote:

(maybe a weird question):
on a TG77, is it possible to change the voices, which make up a multi “on the fly”, with e.g. program change or a sysex command?
i tried to figure out from the manual/midi specs, but couldn?t reach a conclusion.
maybe someone has already tried / knows an answer.

background: on my TX816 i can send individual program changes to each module on its own channel and thus change the composition of it as a “multi instrument”.
now i was wondering if i can achieve the same on a TG77.

thanks in advance,

best
hans
 

My TG77 is actually not in use,- but isn?t it, MIDI PrgCh 0-63 select
internal RAM voices and 64-127 select any inserted cardridge?s voices
(or performances) ?
Plz correct? me if I?m wrong ...

Changing "voices" (programs/patches) on different MIDI channels in a
multi is/was MIDI standard at that time already.

IMO, the other ROM banks doesn?t matter because you cannot store edited
voices into the same locations.
The ROM banks are, more or less, supply of factory patches you ignore or
edit to your desire, then store into internal or cardridge memory to be
ready for usage.

A TG77 will never behave like a TX816 because in a multi, all the voices
share TG77?s "limited" polyphony.
TX816 is basically a frame w/ up to 8 individual 16 voice polyphonic FM
synths inside while the TG77 (as also a TX802) are just only single synths.

:-)

P.

Am 05.08.2021 um 18:29 schrieb hwk:
conclusion for my original goal:
- its possible to change voices in a multi on the fly. (hooray!)
- it doesn?t seem possible to dynamically change between preset I, preset II and internal though.

didn?t test with sysex yet.

thanks daniel for jump starting me,

best
hans


--
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
 

hi p.

yes i am aware that i can?t get the same level of polyphony from a TG77 (or “raw power”, whatever that means :-)
it was more of a question in principle.

but isn?t it, MIDI PrgCh 0-63 select
internal RAM voices and 64-127 select any inserted cardridge?s voices
the manual says otherwise and my findings also suggest so, but the picture is a bit complicated by differences between how my unit behaves and what the manual states.
the bits are on p 175 utility mode/midi utility/program change.

maybe thats the relevant outcome of my original post, as you are correct in saying:
Changing "voices" (programs/patches) on different MIDI channels in a
multi is/was MIDI standard at that time already.
and i had overlooked that before asking here…

best
hans

Am 06.08.2021 um 11:03 schrieb PeWe <ha-pewe@...>:

My TG77 is actually not in use,- but isn?t it, MIDI PrgCh 0-63 select
internal RAM voices and 64-127 select any inserted cardridge?s voices
(or performances) ?
Plz correct me if I?m wrong ...

Changing "voices" (programs/patches) on different MIDI channels in a
multi is/was MIDI standard at that time already.

IMO, the other ROM banks doesn?t matter because you cannot store edited
voices into the same locations.
The ROM banks are, more or less, supply of factory patches you ignore or
edit to your desire, then store into internal or cardridge memory to be
ready for usage.

A TG77 will never behave like a TX816 because in a multi, all the voices
share TG77?s "limited" polyphony.
TX816 is basically a frame w/ up to 8 individual 16 voice polyphonic FM
synths inside while the TG77 (as also a TX802) are just only single synths.

:-)

P.

Am 05.08.2021 um 18:29 schrieb hwk:
conclusion for my original goal:
- its possible to change voices in a multi on the fly. (hooray!)
- it doesn?t seem possible to dynamically change between preset I, preset II and internal though.

didn?t test with sysex yet.

thanks daniel for jump starting me,

best
hans


--
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
 

I didn?t use the term "RAM power" in my post.

Am 06.08.2021 um 11:20 schrieb hwk:
hi p.

yes i am aware that i can?t get the same level of polyphony from a TG77 (or “raw power”, whatever that means :-)

--
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
 

I didn?t use the term "RAM power" in my post.
no, you didn?t and i didn?t either…i wrote “raw power” in an attempt to describe my joy about the “in your face” quality of the tx816s sound, which i had just switched on again after a longer pause.
sorry, if my expression of happiness created confusion :-)

best
hans


Am 06.08.2021 um 11:20 schrieb hwk:
hi p.

yes i am aware that i can?t get the same level of polyphony from a TG77 (or “raw power”, whatever that means :-)

--
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.

1 - 8 of 8