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Hi All,
OK, I took the plunge and bought a license of OPS7.? I'm in the
slightly painful process of converting my TX802 programs and
settings into VSTi presets for Cakewalk.? In the process I need a
few of the factory patches from the TX802.
Does anyone have the Factory A + B banks in SysEx form?? Searching
the forum archives and elsewhere, I can find lots of copies of the
*Performance* memories (which can be easily overwritten), as well as
blank Voice banks.? That's not what I need.
I'm figuring that even after my first work to convert to the
soft-synth, once in a while I'll need a classic FM sound that
already exists in DX-land, maybe even in the TX factory patches.?
But once I've converted over to the OPS7, it's not going to be easy
to access them:? they're in the TX802's ROM banks, not on my laptop.
I know I can copy all of the Bank A programs to the User Bank, one
at a time; then dump them to SysEx; then 'rinse and repeat' with
Bank B.? If necessary, I'll do that, and I'll post the results in
the Files section.? But I'm hoping to avoid this tedious task.
Alternately, if someone knows for certain that the TX802 Factory
Voices are the same as those in the DX7II, then I'll try to use
them.
--
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Halfmoon-Switch.com?
bw@...
978.597.7008
?
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I think the 802 made use of fractional scales and other weird and wonderful stuff that wasn’t in the Mk1.?? OPS7 is modelled on a Mk1. ? Sent from for Windows ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Bruce Wahler via groups.ioSent: 23 March 2022 18:43 To: [email protected]Subject: [YamahaDX] TX802 Factory Banks ? Hi All,
OK, I took the plunge and bought a license of OPS7.? I'm in the slightly painful process of converting my TX802 programs and settings into VSTi presets for Cakewalk.? In the process I need a few of the factory patches from the TX802.
Does anyone have the Factory A + B banks in SysEx form?? Searching the forum archives and elsewhere, I can find lots of copies of the *Performance* memories (which can be easily overwritten), as well as blank Voice banks.? That's not what I need.
I'm figuring that even after my first work to convert to the soft-synth, once in a while I'll need a classic FM sound that already exists in DX-land, maybe even in the TX factory patches.? But once I've converted over to the OPS7, it's not going to be easy to access them:? they're in the TX802's ROM banks, not on my laptop.
I know I can copy all of the Bank A programs to the User Bank, one at a time; then dump them to SysEx; then 'rinse and repeat' with Bank B.? If necessary, I'll do that, and I'll post the results in the Files section.? But I'm hoping to avoid this tedious task.
Alternately, if someone knows for certain that the TX802 Factory Voices are the same as those in the DX7II, then I'll try to use them. --
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Halfmoon-Switch.com?
bw@...
978.597.7008
? ?
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Only a minority of DX7mkII and TX802 patches used fractional
scaling,- so most patches should work.
Am 23.03.2022 um 20:05 schrieb Glen
Diamond via groups.io:
I think the 802 made use of fractional
scales and other weird and wonderful stuff that wasn’t in the
Mk1.?? OPS7 is modelled on a Mk1.
?
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…please tell me you know Dexed exists and is free?
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On 3/23/2022 4:37 PM, mark audacity
romberg wrote:
…please tell me you know Dexed exists and is free?
Yes, and Yes.? It is also a bit complex on the UI-side -- although
obviously not as bad as the original!? I like the fact that it shows
everything; I don't love how it's organized.? YMMV.
________
I downloaded Dexed, and the demos of OPS7 and DX7 V.? I auditioned
all three this afternoon.? At the end, I elected to keep OPS7, for
three reasons:
- It had a slight more of the 'glass edge' sound that a real
Yamaha DX has.? I set up identical sounds on all three, and I
could hear subtle differences between them.? The Arturia was the
'smoothest' sounding, but it almost sounded like it was a bit
muffled at times.? The OPS7 had the most top end, with that
shiny, cutting sound I love.? Dexed was somewhere in the middle.
- All three UIs had pros and cons, but OPS7 suits my work
process best.
- Both DX7 V and OPS7 have onboard effects -- not mandatory, but
nice to have.
Dexed
is $0USD, OPS7 is $50USD, and DX7 V is $150USD.? If it had been
a shootout between Dexed and DX7 V for first place, I would have
probably gone with Dexed.? But the price difference of OPS7 was
low enough that I felt it was worth getting the one I really
liked.
________
I
also looked at Korg's OPsix plugin, but there are enough
subtle differences between the Korg and Yamaha-style engines
that it would likely mean extra time tweaking patches to dial
in the sounds.? That knocked them out of the running
immediately.
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Halfmoon-Switch.com?
bw@...
978.597.7008
?
|
read all,- you want to install the
:-)
Am 23.03.2022 um 21:37 schrieb mark
audacity romberg:
…please tell me you know Dexed exists and is free?
|
This was probably wise. While OP6 was touted as DX7-in-a-Korg, and it works as a replacement (wink,wink), reports are it in no way reads DX7 patches. But I don’t know either way.? Going on rumor. The fact there’s a doubt bothers me.? I’m not in the mood for a development project. I have a TX816, 2X 802, 2X DX7, and a TX7 and 4 digits of patches for each.? No mood to do a lotta tweaking.? Not in this decade, anyway. ? L. ? ? ? ? ? I also looked at Korg's OPsix plugin, but there are enough subtle differences between the Korg and Yamaha-style engines that it would likely mean extra time tweaking patches to dial in the sounds.? That knocked them out of the running immediately.
?
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The opsix envelopes are ADSR, so every second DX patch sounds weird on that basis alone.
Jeremy? LarryS < vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 24. M?rz 2022, 19:01:
This was probably wise. While OP6 was touted as DX7-in-a-Korg, and it works as a replacement (wink,wink), reports are it in no way reads DX7 patches. But I don’t know either way.? Going on rumor. The fact there’s a doubt bothers me.? I’m not in the mood for a development project. I have a TX816, 2X 802, 2X DX7, and a TX7 and 4 digits of patches for each.? No mood to do a lotta tweaking.? Not in this decade, anyway. ? L. ? ? ? ? ? I also looked at Korg's OPsix plugin, but there are enough subtle differences between the Korg and Yamaha-style engines that it would likely mean extra time tweaking patches to dial in the sounds.? That knocked them out of the running immediately.
?
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Exactly.? An ADSR, even with the ability to tweak the decay shape to
exponential, is not a clone of Yamaha's method by any stretch.?
There are lots of DX patches that start with a modulator or two at
fixed points other than zero; that's tricky to simulate in the ADSR
world without giving up attack latency.
________
For anyone who is interested, the TX802 banks loaded fine without
any more fuss than mentioning "Multiple F0/F7 Found!"? I haven't
extensively played around yet, but they sound pretty much the same.?
I don't expect to spend too much time tweaking envelopes and levels.
With a lot of spreadsheet time, I was able to condense my 64-patch
User Performance Bank into something that fits the Bank A/B
architecture, and doesn't use more than two instances of OPS7.? The
hardest part was moving Voices around to balance them between the
banks, something that seldom comes up in the TX802:
- The TX802 is 8-part multitimbral, with one user bank, and
limited polyphony
- Two OPS7s is 4-part multitimbral, with four user banks and
comparatively inexhaustible polyphony
________
One thing I completely overlooked was OPS7's ability to set non-sine
waveforms for the operators!? Time to play a little! ?
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Halfmoon-Switch.com?
bw@...
978.597.7008
?
On 3/24/2022 2:00 PM, LarryS wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This
was probably wise.
While
OP6 was touted as DX7-in-a-Korg, and it works as a
replacement (wink,wink), reports are it in no way reads DX7
patches.
But
I don’t know either way.? Going on rumor.
The
fact there’s a doubt bothers me.? I’m not in the mood for a
development project.
I
have a TX816, 2X 802, 2X DX7, and a TX7 and 4 digits of
patches for each.? No mood to do a lotta tweaking.? Not in
this decade, anyway.
?
L.
?
?
?
?
?
I also looked
at Korg's OPsix plugin, but there are enough subtle
differences between the Korg and Yamaha-style engines
that it would likely mean extra time tweaking patches to
dial in the sounds.? That knocked them out of the
running immediately.
?
|
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 03:01 PM, Bruce Wahler wrote:
________
For anyone who is interested, the TX802 banks loaded fine without any more fuss than mentioning "Multiple F0/F7 Found!"? I haven't extensively played around yet, but they sound pretty much the same.? I don't expect to spend too much time tweaking envelopes and levels.
With a lot of spreadsheet time, I was able to condense my 64-patch User Performance Bank into something that fits the Bank A/B architecture, and doesn't use more than two instances of OPS7.? The hardest part was moving Voices around to balance them between the banks, something that seldom comes up in the TX802:
- The TX802 is 8-part multitimbral, with one user bank, and limited polyphony
- Two OPS7s is 4-part multitimbral, with four user banks and comparatively inexhaustible polyphony
Epilogue: I've finished my port from my TX802 to OPS7.? I did find a couple of wrinkles in the translation:
- In one -- and only one -- patch, OPS7 selected a frequency of 8.00 for one modulator, even though the original patch used 12.00.? I have no idea why!
- Pitch EG modulation was off in many patches.? It seems that the scaling for Pitch EG Level is off by 2x, or maybe even 4x.? I set the scaling to 0.5 and things came back 80-90%, then I tweaked a little.? Not having a DX7 for reference, I don't know why this is.
- OPS7 doesn't seem to support real-time CC7, so volume control on stage requires some ingenuity.
The end result sounds more like a DX7 than a TX802 to my ears, even when setting up 15-bit DAC output, but as I mentioned before, I kind of like the edginess.? To be fair, the OPS7 doesn't claim to be a TX802; it's closer to a DX1/DX5 in capabilities, with the option of better DACs. I've also used up to four instances live in Cakewalk by BandLab, with good stability.? So converting TX Performances to OPS duals was easier than I feared.? All in all, I'm happy with the VSTi. Regards, -BW
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?
Very cool! Thanks for the post-mortem. I’ve almost entirely stopped using my DX7II-FD since getting all its patch libraries transferred to my computer to use with Native Instruments FM8, so it’s interesting to hear how your project went.
Cheers!
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
Bruce Wahler via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 9:52 AM
To: Bruce Wahler <bw@...>; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX802 Factory Banks
?
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 03:01 PM, Bruce Wahler wrote:
________
For anyone who is interested, the TX802 banks loaded fine without any more fuss than mentioning "Multiple F0/F7 Found!"? I haven't extensively played around yet, but they sound pretty much the same.? I don't expect to spend too much time tweaking envelopes
and levels.
With a lot of spreadsheet time, I was able to condense my 64-patch User Performance Bank into something that fits the Bank A/B architecture, and doesn't use more than two instances of OPS7.? The hardest part was moving Voices around to balance them between
the banks, something that seldom comes up in the TX802:
-
The TX802 is 8-part multitimbral, with one user bank, and limited polyphony
-
Two OPS7s is 4-part multitimbral, with four user banks and comparatively inexhaustible polyphony
Epilogue:
I've finished my port from my TX802 to OPS7.? I did find a couple of wrinkles in the translation:
-
In one -- and only one -- patch, OPS7 selected a frequency of 8.00 for one modulator, even though the original patch used 12.00.? I have no idea why!
-
Pitch EG modulation was off in many patches.? It seems that the scaling for Pitch EG Level is off by 2x, or maybe even 4x.? I set the scaling to 0.5 and things came back 80-90%, then I tweaked a little.? Not having a DX7 for reference, I don't know why this
is.
-
OPS7 doesn't seem to support real-time CC7, so volume control on stage requires some ingenuity.
The end result sounds more like a DX7 than a TX802 to my ears, even when setting up 15-bit DAC output, but as I mentioned before, I kind of like the edginess.? To be fair, the OPS7 doesn't claim to be a TX802; it's closer to a DX1/DX5 in
capabilities, with the option of better DACs.
I've also used up to four instances live in Cakewalk by BandLab, with good stability.? So converting TX Performances to OPS duals was easier than I feared.? All in all, I'm happy with the VSTi.
Regards,
-BW
|
Hey?Bruce!
Any chance of sharing your OPS7 banks with the corrected?patches? I've got OPS7 and that sounds like a blast to check out!
JK
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 03:01 PM, Bruce Wahler wrote:
________
For anyone who is interested, the TX802 banks loaded fine without any more fuss than mentioning "Multiple F0/F7 Found!"? I haven't extensively played around yet, but they sound pretty much the same.? I don't expect to spend too much time tweaking envelopes and levels.
With a lot of spreadsheet time, I was able to condense my 64-patch User Performance Bank into something that fits the Bank A/B architecture, and doesn't use more than two instances of OPS7.? The hardest part was moving Voices around to balance them between the banks, something that seldom comes up in the TX802:
- The TX802 is 8-part multitimbral, with one user bank, and limited polyphony
- Two OPS7s is 4-part multitimbral, with four user banks and comparatively inexhaustible polyphony
Epilogue:
I've finished my port from my TX802 to OPS7.? I did find a couple of wrinkles in the translation:
- In one -- and only one -- patch, OPS7 selected a frequency of 8.00 for one modulator, even though the original patch used 12.00.? I have no idea why!
- Pitch EG modulation was off in many patches.? It seems that the scaling for Pitch EG Level is off by 2x, or maybe even 4x.? I set the scaling to 0.5 and things came back 80-90%, then I tweaked a little.? Not having a DX7 for reference, I don't know why this is.
- OPS7 doesn't seem to support real-time CC7, so volume control on stage requires some ingenuity.
The end result sounds more like a DX7 than a TX802 to my ears, even when setting up 15-bit DAC output, but as I mentioned before, I kind of like the edginess.? To be fair, the OPS7 doesn't claim to be a TX802; it's closer to a DX1/DX5 in capabilities, with the option of better DACs.
I've also used up to four instances live in Cakewalk by BandLab, with good stability.? So converting TX Performances to OPS duals was easier than I feared.? All in all, I'm happy with the VSTi.
Regards,
-BW
|
Hi Jon,
I'd be happy to -- except that it's probably a little
disappointing:? just two small banks, maybe? 20-25 sounds each.? A
few of the sounds are detuned clones of other patches to use as a
detuned layer set.? It would easily fit in a pair of original
DX7's.? ?
________
Backgrounder:? I play in a one-man act called Bruce Andrews and the
No Street Band ("No Street," because there's no band).? I do a lot
of '80s and '90s, and the DX sound was a big part of the '80s.? My
rig, though, has a lot of other sonic pieces:? Nord Stage 3, DSI
Tetra, SampleTank 4, Minimonsta, Oddity 2, and Cakewalk by Bandlab
to hold it all together, and provide prerecorded backup harmonies.
As such, I'm not trying to emulate subtractive synthesis; I have
one real analog synth, and three virtual ones, at my fingers.? I'm
also not trying to emulate piano, saxophone, or strings; the Stage
has that pretty well covered.? The OPS7 only has to fill in the
'DX-y stuff':? glassy bells, synth pads, etc.? Sometimes extra
horns and harpsichord, when the Stage is too busy doing other
things.? Maybe a pulse line to mimic a chugging rhythm guitar.? I
don't even use the 'DX Rhodes' sound; I never liked it that much,
and thought it was overused back in the day.? And I never did much
with alternative tunings and such on the TX.? But for say, Tears
for Fears, or a song like "Drive" by the Cars, it takes center
stage.
________
It might be more helpful to describe my 'recipe' for transferring
sounds from the TX802 to OPS7:
- Start by exporting the sounds from the TX by SysEx.? Most of
them will come through surprisingly intact.
- Set the OPS7 resolution to 15-bit; the stock 10/12-bit sounds
too grainy to my ears.
- If a sound has a pitch envelope, the Pitch EG Amount is going
to have to be cut to 1/4 to 1/3 of the value that was imported
from the TX.
- Take a look at the frequencies of OP1-OP6; most of the time,
they transfer properly, but I had one or two cases where the
values were off.
- After that, use your ears.? There are subtle -- and
occasionally, not so subtle -- differences in decay rates,
particularly on release times.? I'm not sure how much of this
can be chalked up to the OPS7's emulation of an *original* DX7,
rather than the Gen 2 models.
- The OPS7 is a little brighter and 'edgier' than a TX802, so
you may want to tweak the level of some operators to
compensate.? (I like the brighter sound, so I did not do this.)
and finally:
- Throw out everything you know about the TX802's Performances
and architecture.? The OPS7 is closer to a DX5 with better
DACs.? In order to do complex splits and layers, one is likely
to need to run multiple instances of OPS7 in a DAW.? The good
news:? I run up to 4 instances in Cakewalk on an older i3
laptop, and it's pretty stable, even live.? And the 16-note
polyphony limit is gone!? ?
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Halfmoon-Switch.com?
bw@...
978.597.7008
?
On 5/7/2022 3:30 AM, Jon Kubis wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hey?Bruce!
Any chance of sharing your OPS7 banks with the
corrected?patches? I've got OPS7 and that sounds like a blast
to check out!
JK
On
Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 03:01 PM, Bruce Wahler wrote:
________
For anyone who is interested, the TX802 banks loaded fine
without any more fuss than mentioning "Multiple F0/F7
Found!"? I haven't extensively played around yet, but they
sound pretty much the same.? I don't expect to spend too
much time tweaking envelopes and levels.
With a lot of spreadsheet time, I was able to condense my
64-patch User Performance Bank into something that fits the
Bank A/B architecture, and doesn't use more than two
instances of OPS7.? The hardest part was moving Voices
around to balance them between the banks, something that
seldom comes up in the TX802:
- The TX802 is 8-part multitimbral, with one user bank,
and limited polyphony
- Two OPS7s is 4-part multitimbral, with four user banks
and comparatively inexhaustible polyphony
Epilogue:
I've finished my port from my TX802 to OPS7.? I did find a
couple of wrinkles in the translation:
- In one -- and only one -- patch, OPS7 selected a
frequency of 8.00 for one modulator, even though the
original patch used 12.00.? I have no idea why!
- Pitch EG modulation was off in many patches.? It seems
that the scaling for Pitch EG Level is off by 2x, or maybe
even 4x.? I set the scaling to 0.5 and things came back
80-90%, then I tweaked a little.? Not having a DX7 for
reference, I don't know why this is.
- OPS7 doesn't seem to support real-time CC7, so volume
control on stage requires some ingenuity.
The end result sounds more like a DX7 than a TX802 to my ears,
even when setting up 15-bit DAC output, but as I mentioned
before, I kind of like the edginess.? To be fair, the OPS7
doesn't claim to be a TX802; it's closer to a DX1/DX5 in
capabilities, with the option of better DACs.
I've also used up to four instances live in Cakewalk by
BandLab, with good stability.? So converting TX Performances
to OPS duals was easier than I feared.? All in all, I'm happy
with the VSTi.
Regards,
-BW
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