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Hi.

It was week ago I had HAM weekend with my friend at cottage.
My friend wanted to test his Icom rig in low level QRM QTH.

So, I took my AH3 tuner (almost similar as FC40) to cottage for him.
The 23 meter wire I found good during my earlier tests was used with
AH3 and Icom radio.

I dont member exactly how 23wire was working during last year tests,
but there was some frequencies where FC40 didnt tune. Those FRGs were
tuned perfectly with AH3. And FRGs what I never tested with FC40 was
tuned well by AH3. Even the down end 1.8 MHz was tuned nicely.

This FC 40 compared to AH3 has smaller coils and should be compare
with icom AH4. Unfortunately I dont have AH4, just 2 pcs
AH3 and one FC40.

I am not telling that FC40 is not good. I try to tell that the HAM
has to know his stuff and make the things working.
There is NO Perfect tuner what can tune everything.

FC40 is goog stuff for Yaesu radios, but have to think how to use it.

73s es GL DX de rami, oh6bi

Well Rami, this is what I was complaining about. Apparently the
tuning range (impedance matching range) of the FC40 is quite narrow
as compared to other ATU's. I think it is only 15-600 Ohms Z. Don't
know about reactance tuning.
THis is why it mostly does not tune well on all bands for a given
wire length. One thing that can help id putting a 4:1 or 9:1 UNUN
between the wire and the ATU.

Jan
ON3ZTT

--- In YaesuTuner@..., "oh6bi" <oh6bi@...> wrote:

Hi.

It was week ago I had HAM weekend with my friend at cottage.
My friend wanted to test his Icom rig in low level QRM QTH.

So, I took my AH3 tuner (almost similar as FC40) to cottage for him.
The 23 meter wire I found good during my earlier tests was used

with

AH3 and Icom radio.

I dont member exactly how 23wire was working during last year

tests,

but there was some frequencies where FC40 didnt tune. Those FRGs

were

tuned perfectly with AH3. And FRGs what I never tested with FC40

was

tuned well by AH3. Even the down end 1.8 MHz was tuned nicely.

This FC 40 compared to AH3 has smaller coils and should be compare
with icom AH4. Unfortunately I dont have AH4, just 2 pcs
AH3 and one FC40.

I am not telling that FC40 is not good. I try to tell that the HAM
has to know his stuff and make the things working.
There is NO Perfect tuner what can tune everything.

FC40 is goog stuff for Yaesu radios, but have to think how to use

it.

73s es GL DX de rami, oh6bi

Thanks for your reply Jan.

When I bought FC40 I believed that it is as the competitors.

After three months testing I finally found some wire lengths
which were quite good, but even founded lengths were not stable.

I checked many times my wiring and nothing was changed after earlier
weekend. Then it came two weeks "rains season" and 23m wire started behave same way as I got it working in the middle of testing period. Almost all bands were tuned again.. So, how was my ground ?

I did plenty of works for ground system and still same situation,
I didnt know what was goeing on ??
Making several tests and "speakings" through HAM groups, no explains.

My ground is not the best one but quite good anyway, I really know that.
I have told through this group how it is built, so I am not goeing to write that all agn.

My "final" feelings with FC40 are OK, if not expecting that it can
tune whatever...

Like manual "standard" ATUs there are many different types for
different antennas and bandwidths.

With FC40 5 or 10 percents away from the half wave length is not enough.
I have learned that it suppose to be at least 15 to 20 percents.

Maybe FC40 is built (or programmed) different way than AH3 (or4),
because changes with the ground or soil are more effective.

I have FT897 and I like it much. FC40 is the best friend of that Rig
and good thing them together is FC40s memory,,but,, when antenna system is stable.
I should have more time to continue testing after I have got
some experience, but winter and other type of antennas (magloop) are taking my time now, maybe next summer at the cottage agn.

I think best way to get FC40 working is against of counterpoise,
then soil doesnot effect so much as straight connection to gnd.

best regards and 73?s de rami, oh6bi

Rami,

yes indeed you might need a good counterpoise system. The best
starting point is at least 1 tuned (cut for 1/4 wave length) radial
per frequency you want to use, and stretch them on the ground,
starting from a central ground bus bar point close to your antenna
tuner.
Of course even better is a system with 16 or 32 radials in a star
formation, but who has the available and free garden surroundings to
do so....
On my sailing boat, the FC40 is working quite well with following
counterpoise:
1. wide copper tape running from atu to a bronze underwater object
(coupling to the seawter)
2. copper tape from atu ground connected to the stainless
steel "lifelines" that run along both sides of the boat and are
about 8 m long
3. 2 tuned radials for 20 m and 2 tuned radials for 40m running
along both sides of the boat on the deck, strapped to the aluminium
toerails

The wire antenna is 9.60m long, and tunes all freq but only upper
part of 80m. To make it tune 80m I have to add a 0.4m pigtail to the
antenna connection of the tuner, parallel to the antenna wire.

With this the FC40 tunes perfectly with SWR's lower than 1.5:1 on
all ham bands. So when the FC40 cán tune a frequency, then it works
super super fast.
I've made good DX contacts with this system on 20m and on 17 m (even
japan) from the boat with only 100Watts.

Jan


--- In YaesuTuner@..., raimo ilkka <oh6bi@...> wrote:

Thanks for your reply Jan.

When I bought FC40 I believed that it is as the competitors.

After three months testing I finally found some wire lengths
which were quite good, but even founded lengths were not stable.

I checked many times my wiring and nothing was changed after

earlier

weekend. Then it came two weeks "rains season" and 23m wire

started behave same way as I got it working in the middle of testing
period. Almost all bands were tuned again.. So, how was my ground ?

I did plenty of works for ground system and still same situation,
I didnt know what was goeing on ??
Making several tests and "speakings" through HAM groups, no

explains.

My ground is not the best one but quite good anyway, I really know

that.

I have told through this group how it is built, so I am not goeing

to write that all agn.

My "final" feelings with FC40 are OK, if not expecting that it can
tune whatever...

Like manual "standard" ATUs there are many different types for
different antennas and bandwidths.

With FC40 5 or 10 percents away from the half wave length is not

enough.

I have learned that it suppose to be at least 15 to 20 percents.

Maybe FC40 is built (or programmed) different way than AH3 (or4),
because changes with the ground or soil are more effective.

I have FT897 and I like it much. FC40 is the best friend of that

Rig

and good thing them together is FC40s memory,,but,, when antenna

system is stable.

I should have more time to continue testing after I have got
some experience, but winter and other type of antennas (magloop)

are taking my time now, maybe next summer at the cottage agn.

I think best way to get FC40 working is against of counterpoise,
then soil doesnot effect so much as straight connection to gnd.

best regards and 73?s de rami, oh6bi


--- On Fri, 24/10/08, fil_jds <fil_jds@...> wrote:

From: fil_jds <fil_jds@...>
Subject: [YaesuTuner] Re: AH3 vs FC40
To: YaesuTuner@...
Date: Friday, 24 October, 2008, 7:23 PM
Well Rami, this is what I was complaining about. Apparently
the
tuning range (impedance matching range) of the FC40 is
quite narrow
as compared to other ATU's. I think it is only 15-600
Ohms Z. Don't
know about reactance tuning.
THis is why it mostly does not tune well on all bands for a
given
wire length. One thing that can help id putting a 4:1 or
9:1 UNUN
between the wire and the ATU.

Jan
ON3ZTT

--- In YaesuTuner@..., "oh6bi"
<oh6bi@> wrote:

Hi.

It was week ago I had HAM weekend with my friend at

cottage.

My friend wanted to test his Icom rig in low level QRM

QTH.

So, I took my AH3 tuner (almost similar as FC40) to

cottage for him.

The 23 meter wire I found good during my earlier tests

was used
with

AH3 and Icom radio.

I dont member exactly how 23wire was working during

last year
tests,

but there was some frequencies where FC40 didnt tune.

Those FRGs
were

tuned perfectly with AH3. And FRGs what I never tested

with FC40
was

tuned well by AH3. Even the down end 1.8 MHz was tuned

nicely.

This FC 40 compared to AH3 has smaller coils and

should be compare

with icom AH4. Unfortunately I dont have AH4, just 2

pcs

AH3 and one FC40.

I am not telling that FC40 is not good. I try to tell

that the HAM

has to know his stuff and make the things working.
There is NO Perfect tuner what can tune everything.

FC40 is goog stuff for Yaesu radios, but have to think

how to use
it.

73s es GL DX de rami, oh6bi

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Ok Jan. Thanks for reply.

Your system in the boat sounds Good.
I have tried sometimes "resonating" counterpoises.
At the moment there is only one for 20m.

Some years ago I had wooden motorboat abt 7m long with cabin
for sleeping and driving. I wish to have that time this kind
modern radios with auto ATUs that time.I was using IC730 with
HomeMade ATU, Antenna was 4 m long fiberglass stick.
Ground was done by seweral connections to engine and steels outside.
Now I am driving small fiberglass boat with windscreen and 30 hp outboard.
There is no space for radios..

part of 80m. To make it tune 80m I have to add a 0.4m
pigtail to the
antenna connection of the tuner, parallel to the antenna
wire.

How is that pigtail positioning when it is working, how did you found
idea to use it ? That is intresting!

As I have told, winter is soon here, this weekend goeing to cottage
to empy all water tanks and pots. There is only IC730 and G5RV, my
20 years old base station, still working very well.

FT897/FC40 are already at town QTH. FT897 is now connected to multiband vertical on the top of roof. Inv L antenna is fed by IC706/AH3 .
After you writing, I have to make fast some counterpoises with L ant,
before snow and ice comes.

73s es gl dx de rami, oh6bi


--- On Mon, 27/10/08, fil_jds <fil_jds@...> wrote:

From: fil_jds <fil_jds@...>
Subject: [YaesuTuner] Re: AH3 vs FC40
To: YaesuTuner@...
Date: Monday, 27 October, 2008, 3:53 PM
Rami,

yes indeed you might need a good counterpoise system. The
best
starting point is at least 1 tuned (cut for 1/4 wave
length) radial
per frequency you want to use, and stretch them on the
ground,
starting from a central ground bus bar point close to your
antenna
tuner.
Of course even better is a system with 16 or 32 radials in
a star
formation, but who has the available and free garden
surroundings to
do so....
On my sailing boat, the FC40 is working quite well with
following
counterpoise:
1. wide copper tape running from atu to a bronze underwater
object
(coupling to the seawter)
2. copper tape from atu ground connected to the stainless
steel "lifelines" that run along both sides of
the boat and are
about 8 m long
3. 2 tuned radials for 20 m and 2 tuned radials for 40m
running
along both sides of the boat on the deck, strapped to the
aluminium
toerails

The wire antenna is 9.60m long, and tunes all freq but only
upper
part of 80m. To make it tune 80m I have to add a 0.4m
pigtail to the
antenna connection of the tuner, parallel to the antenna
wire.

With this the FC40 tunes perfectly with SWR's lower
than 1.5:1 on
all ham bands. So when the FC40 cán tune a frequency, then
it works
super super fast.
I've made good DX contacts with this system on 20m and
on 17 m (even
japan) from the boat with only 100Watts.

Jan


--- In YaesuTuner@..., raimo ilkka
<oh6bi@...> wrote:

Thanks for your reply Jan.

When I bought FC40 I believed that it is as the

competitors.

After three months testing I finally found some wire

lengths

which were quite good, but even founded lengths were

not stable.

I checked many times my wiring and nothing was changed

after
earlier

weekend. Then it came two weeks "rains

season" and 23m wire
started behave same way as I got it working in the middle
of testing
period. Almost all bands were tuned again.. So, how was my
ground ?

I did plenty of works for ground system and still same

situation,

I didnt know what was goeing on ??
Making several tests and "speakings" through

HAM groups, no
explains.

My ground is not the best one but quite good anyway, I

really know
that.

I have told through this group how it is built, so I

am not goeing
to write that all agn.

My "final" feelings with FC40 are OK, if not

expecting that it can

tune whatever...

Like manual "standard" ATUs there are many

different types for

different antennas and bandwidths.

With FC40 5 or 10 percents away from the half wave

length is not
enough.

I have learned that it suppose to be at least 15 to 20

percents.

Maybe FC40 is built (or programmed) different way than

AH3 (or4),

because changes with the ground or soil are more

effective.

I have FT897 and I like it much. FC40 is the best

friend of that
Rig

and good thing them together is FC40s memory,,but,,

when antenna
system is stable.

I should have more time to continue testing after I

have got

some experience, but winter and other type of antennas

(magloop)
are taking my time now, maybe next summer at the cottage
agn.

I think best way to get FC40 working is against of

counterpoise,

then soil doesnot effect so much as straight

connection to gnd.

best regards and 73?s de rami, oh6bi


--- On Fri, 24/10/08, fil_jds <fil_jds@...>

wrote:

From: fil_jds <fil_jds@...>
Subject: [YaesuTuner] Re: AH3 vs FC40
To: YaesuTuner@...
Date: Friday, 24 October, 2008, 7:23 PM
Well Rami, this is what I was complaining about.

Apparently

the
tuning range (impedance matching range) of the

FC40 is

quite narrow
as compared to other ATU's. I think it is

only 15-600

Ohms Z. Don't
know about reactance tuning.
THis is why it mostly does not tune well on all

bands for a

given
wire length. One thing that can help id putting a

4:1 or

9:1 UNUN
between the wire and the ATU.

Jan
ON3ZTT

--- In YaesuTuner@...,

"oh6bi"

<oh6bi@> wrote:

Hi.

It was week ago I had HAM weekend with my

friend at

cottage.

My friend wanted to test his Icom rig in low

level QRM

QTH.

So, I took my AH3 tuner (almost similar as

FC40) to

cottage for him.

The 23 meter wire I found good during my

earlier tests

was used
with

AH3 and Icom radio.

I dont member exactly how 23wire was working

during

last year
tests,

but there was some frequencies where FC40

didnt tune.

Those FRGs
were

tuned perfectly with AH3. And FRGs what I

never tested

with FC40
was

tuned well by AH3. Even the down end 1.8 MHz

was tuned

nicely.

This FC 40 compared to AH3 has smaller coils

and

should be compare

with icom AH4. Unfortunately I dont have

AH4, just 2

pcs

AH3 and one FC40.

I am not telling that FC40 is not good. I

try to tell

that the HAM

has to know his stuff and make the things

working.

There is NO Perfect tuner what can tune

everything.

FC40 is goog stuff for Yaesu radios, but

have to think

how to use
it.

73s es GL DX de rami, oh6bi

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks for your interesting post. I want to use my FT897D with a FC40 on board my sailboat and I read many proposals for the "good length" of the isolated backstay, I had thought to 12.5m but as you say it does not work I shall keep your suggested 9.6m length BUT what do you call a 0.4m pigtail ? Could you explain lease, I would like to have the system working well on all HF bands.
73s and best regards from FK8IH

On my sailboat I have no idea what lenth the backstay was. Where I found a point that the system wouldn't tune I felt the problem was inadequate counterpoise inside the boat. Upgrading the counterpoise solved all tuning problems. What do you plan to use for a counterpoise? JD --- On Sun, 9/20/09, GUILLOT JC <jcjglt@...> wrote: From: GUILLOT JC Subject: [YaesuTuner] Re: AH3 vs FC40 To: YaesuTuner@... Received: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 9:15 PM ? Thanks for your interesting post. I want to use my FT897D with a FC40 on board my sailboat and I read many proposals for the "good length" of the isolated backstay, I had thought to 12.5m but as you say it does not work I shall keep your suggested 9.6m length BUT what do you call a 0.4m pigtail ? Could you explain lease, I would like to have the system working well on all HF bands. 73s and best regards from FK8IH > The wire antenna is 9.60m long, and tunes all freq but only upper > part of 80m. To make it tune 80m I have to add a 0.4m pigtail to the > antenna connection of the tuner, parallel to the antenna wire.

---

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My backstay is 13.7 meter long which puts limits to my isolated backstay, I thought to 12.5 meter as the 20 meter band will be my favourite band (mostly digital traffic with Pactor modem but also SSB operation on various sailors Pacific nets).
As counterpoise I plan to link my keel and diesel engine by wide (around 1 inch wide) flat copper ribbon to the FT897D tranceiver and the FC40 ATU. The keel is about 1.85 meter deep, made of steel covered by epoxy and weights about 1 300 kilograms, between 2 and 3 square meter area. I think this should work well by capacitive effect with the surrounding salt water, for the moment I do not intend to have a grounding brass plate outside but I can change my mind.
Any comments will be appreciated.
73s to all.
FK8IH

? ... use 3.5" to 4" copper foil or strip to connect those elements 1" too skinny. If you can pass the copper around the boat under the cabinetry that would work as well. Some boats have an aluminum toe rail or hull to deck join. If you connect those to the counterpoise with some foil they work great. External copper plate is not as effective as interior foil distribution and subject to corrosion. Some boats expoxied or painted vinylester resin under and over the foil to protect it against physical and corrosive damage. You might also pass the foil from your keel/engine block to a through hull fitting. That will better help connect you with the sea. But there should be no other reason the FC40 does a bad tune to any Freq the 857D can tune to. Note if your cabin lights and engine alarms come on while you transmist your connection to and your counterpoise is inadequate. Start transmitting at low power and work up. Don't start right out at 100W until you know the FC40 is happy. Happy sailing!! JD --- On Mon, 9/21/09, GUILLOT JC wrote: From: GUILLOT JC Subject: [YaesuTuner] Re: AH3 vs FC40 To: YaesuTuner@... Received: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:21 PM ? My backstay is 13.7 meter long which puts limits to my isolated backstay, I thought to 12.5 meter as the 20 meter band will be my favourite band (mostly digital traffic with Pactor modem but also SSB operation on various sailors Pacific nets). As counterpoise I plan to link my keel and diesel engine by wide (around 1 inch wide) flat copper ribbon to the FT897D tranceiver and the FC40 ATU. The keel is about 1.85 meter deep, made of steel covered by epoxy and weights about 1 300 kilograms, between 2 and 3 square meter area. I think this should work well by capacitive effect with the surrounding salt water, for the moment I do not intend to have a grounding brass plate outside but I can change my mind. Any comments will be appreciated. 73s to all. FK8IH --- In YaesuTuner@yahoogro ups.com, JD Baillie wrote: > > On my sailboat I have no idea what lenth the backstay was. Where I found a point that the system wouldn't tune I felt the problem was inadequate counterpoise inside the boat. Upgrading the counterpoise solved all tuning problems. > > What do you plan to use for a counterpoise? > > JD

---

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Hi J-C,

sorry to reply this late, as usually this group was not very much "alive" I did not visit it for quite a while.
Unfortunately, on the topic of sloping wire antennas and RF ground on a sailbout, you will find 99 different opinions and views.
Look up on eHam forum, you will find the same comments stating that the impedance matching range of the FC40 is unfortunately a bit narrow, hence it is quite picky and sensitive to wire length.
Even in the home QTH, trying out inverted-L wire antennas WITH a large RF ground system (2.4 m long earthing rod, with several radial wires about 5 cm buried in gravel, with lengths ranging from 20m,15m,10m,7.5m,5m to at elast cover most of the HAM bands, it was still rather difficult to find a wire length offering all-band tuning with the FC40. About 23m was OK, and also around 9.6 m.

On the boat, I've tried a lot. As RF ground I have 4 inch wide copper straps, running from the FC40 ground lug to both sides of the pulpit bases, and from there also connected to the lower S/S lifelines of my Jeanneau 37 ft. From the tuner RF ground lug also 2 sets of radial wires, 10m and 5m long, tied with tie-wraps to inside of the aluminium toe-rails (le rail qui court le long des c?tés du pont, entre pont et cocque). Furthermore copper tape to the bronze underwater strut supporting the propeller axle. Since originally the boat also had a woven tinned copper strap running from engineblock (also the DC negative ground), and to prevent potential galvanic corrosion issues due to ground loops or high voltages pumped into this strut, I blocked the DC with about 0.15 microF of high voltage caps. I do think I have quite some RF ground availbale with this. I never did run copper tape to the iron keel bolts. That would be at least 5m of copper tape which for the higher frequencies is just too long.
Antennas: I tried all lengths between 14m and down for the sloping backwire antenna (of course I do not use the backstay but a sloping wire parallel to the backstay running to the starboard side of my pulpit ("balcon arrière"). No length was ok for 80m-40m-20m-17m and 15m allband, except around 9.6m. Length is very critical. Sometimes adding a little "pigtail" extension at the point where the bottom of the antenna wire is bolted to the isolated through-hull helped 80m tuning.
After that Greg on the SSCA forum talked me into a parallel multiwire system, with 13m, 6.5 and 3.75m parallel wires with 10cm spreaders in between, but all connected together at the base, and with a 1:1 current balun at the bottom (derived from K9YAM antenna). That tunes quite OK on all those freq's,theory says every freq will choose maximal current in the optimal choice of wire, and still offering low-angle radiation. Others critised this heavily, saying that its radiation angle behaviour would be very unpredictable. It tuned well but DX results were bad. So I took it down...

Now I have a wire of about 10.5m, connected to the isolated through hull. Directly connected to the underside of the through hull, inside the back lazarette ("coffre arrièe tribord") I have the HD 1:1 current balun (13 turns of teflon coax around a Amidon T300A core) and 40 cm of teflon coax from the balun to the FC40. I did this to avoid 45cm of antenna wire running inside the "coffre" to the FC40. I now have the RF ground system connected to the balun ground output. I have no idea of losses in this balun + short coax system to the atu, but it does tune well on all my wanted frequencies, even on 12 Mhz marine SSB freq.
I had DX contacts to Japan with this on 17m and 20m, from the sea.
Does that prove anything? Not really....I guess a more standardised test with a fixed receiving station and also field strength measurements and antenna modeling would tell me more.
The 10.5m wire length should give low angle take off from 40m till 17m (really the limit for 17m since 10.5m is just a triffle more then 0.625 Lambda)

So far my story.

Jan
ON3ZTT