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OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV cleanly and how to detect it.

[email protected] All Messages By This Member #112 Does your SDD go above 50 keV? The Si-Pin really falls off sharply, @59.5 is by no means blowing it away, while the X-Rays are fantastic. Over the winter I'll try to get the CdTe sensor online... but have to make a set of cables first between power supply/shaping amp and sensor/preamp head......it's supposed to be good from 5 to above 100 maybe even to 200, but no microfocus exciter in that range.... Recently I accidentally ID'ed uranium by XRF- the rock was not labeled and I didn't suspect it to be radioactive, but there were those U XRF lines right on the button. Will try something with thorium soon. Geo
Dude All Messages By This Member #113 开云体育 My 50kV ?gun is limited to 50 kV due to the backscatter and the FDA shielding issues. The SSD drops off pretty quickly at about 60 keV for the photoelectric response unlike CdTe which can see the U Ka at 98 easily.? A Si Pin is similar to the SSD in range but much poorer in resolution. ?Both depend on the depletion depths and peaking time.? The problem is efficiency at the high energies. I can see Sm with a 50 kV xray but it’s got to be in the percent range.? I have a Kevex 60 kV xray microfocus unit here but no detector other than some ?low energy ?HPGe’s to use with it. I had been toying with the idea of picking up a Cd Te detector to play with.? A fast SSD would really help with resolution. U and Th La’s are easy to see. ?The problem with the HREE is you have to look at the La ?and Lb’s which occur in the ?matrix of everything else and don’t resolve well. Using the Ka, Kb’s requires a 50kV tube up to Pm. Above that you want to be about 10 -20 keV above the binding energy. U and Th occupy a fairly open region above the mess below and are easily seen in the La and Lb range. Rather than cooling down the HPGe detectors I look at the HREE with a homebrew LIBS system which see everything. I’ll be looking in to a CdTe detector but I’m sure I’d also be tempted to get a Fast SSD for the Kevex. What are the specs on your SiPin? Window and SI thickness?? What do you have for the CdTe setup? Dud toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Bto the SDehalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 3:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. ? Does your SDD go above 50 keV? The Si-Pin really falls off sharply, @59.5 is by no means blowing it away, while the X-Rays are fantastic. Over the winter I'll try to get the CdTe sensor online... but have to make a set of cables first between power supply/shaping amp and sensor/preamp head......it's supposed to be good from 5 to above 100 maybe even to 200, but no microfocus exciter in that range.... Recently I accidentally ID'ed uranium by XRF- the rock was not labeled and I didn't suspect it to be radioactive, but there were those U XRF lines right on the button. Will try something with thorium soon. Geo
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #114 Edited On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 11:30 PM, Dude wrote: My 50kV ?gun is limited to 50 kV due to the backscatter and the FDA shielding issues. The SSD drops off pretty quickly at about 60 keV for the photoelectric response unlike CdTe which can see the U Ka at 98 easily.? A Si Pin is similar to the SSD in range but much poorer in resolution. ?Both depend on the depletion depths and peaking time.? The problem is efficiency at the high energies. I can see Sm with a 50 kV xray but it’s got to be in the percent range.? I have a Kevex 60 kV xray microfocus unit here but no detector other than some ?low energy ?HPGe’s to use with it. I had been toying with the idea of picking up a Cd Te detector to play with.? A fast SSD would really help with resolution. U and Th La’s are easy to see. ?The problem with the HREE is you have to look at the La ?and Lb’s which occur in the ?matrix of everything else and don’t resolve well. Using the Ka, Kb’s requires a 50kV tube up to Pm. Above that you want to be about 10 -20 keV above the binding energy. U and Th occupy a fairly open region above the mess below and are easily seen in the La and Lb range. Rather than cooling down the HPGe detectors I look at the HREE with a homebrew LIBS system which see everything. I’ll be looking in to a CdTe detector but I’m sure I’d also be tempted to get a Fast SSD for the Kevex. What are the specs on your SiPin? Window and SI thickness?? What do you have for the CdTe setup? Dud All AMPTEK stuff for Si-Pin and CdTe.? 0.001" Be windows. The Si-PIN are essentially the 1-2-3 spectrometer package electronics, in a home brew housing. The CdTe is the PX-2CR power supply with a XR-100 CdTe head with preamp. No spectrum analyzer inside like the 1-2-3 setup, so have to use the external MCA. Using @59.5 now for exciter, one to 8 points max. Much backscatter, working on the backshield and have a pretty good working arrangement now, mostly was interested in knocking down Np X-Rays, and it took a layered graded approach. Still have a little leakage of Cu X-Rays from? the brass I used to make the exciter rings. Next time will use a HDPE material? not brass I think ( will test first). Got the angle of attach down pretty close to ideal already, so main thing is air attenuation. If in a vacuum or semi vacuum, that would clear up nicely. Propane purge helps, shows what can be expected with even partial vacuum. Have a KEVEX tungsten target set with variable power supply, 10 to 50 kVp, adjustable from 10 to 200? uA. same outfit as in 2013-14 in Las Vegas when used with the SDD 1-2-3, noted then 10 uA worked fine with 15? uA sometimes needed. LIBS is a good idea. You can use your best sensor and beta particles for exciting too. Also alpha particles. They used Plutonium on the Mars spacecraft rover. Maybe on those leased? Po-210 static bars?? With @59.5, about 10% comes from the alphas and of course only from the surface. My first outfit used Fe-55, Cd-109 and Am-241 and a mercuric iodide probe It was licensed and too much hassle. Many of the XRF periodic tables still have reference to which isotope to use and which of it's X-Rays are used to excite the elements. Geo
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #115 Less than 1 gram of Eu Oxide, powdwered, inside a plastic baggie 62s Show L and K shells and the drop off of efficiency as energy rises. Si-Pin. @59.5 X 8 PS I brought this discussion concerning XRF to this site and other SDD and SI-PIN discussions to my GammaSpectrometry site. Geo Eu-Powdered_62s_L_K_Shells.jpg
Randall Buck All Messages By This Member #116 Hi Dud, Don't you have to pay attention to ionization states greater than one and the consequent line shift, when using LIBS ? Randall toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 21:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. My 50kV gun is limited to 50 kV due to the backscatter and the FDA shielding issues. The SSD drops off pretty quickly at about 60 keV for the photoelectric response unlike CdTe which can see the U Ka at 98 easily. A Si Pin is similar to the SSD in range but much poorer in resolution. Both depend on the depletion depths and peaking time. The problem is efficiency at the high energies. I can see Sm with a 50 kV xray but it’s got to be in the percent range. I have a Kevex 60 kV xray microfocus unit here but no detector other than some low energy HPGe’s to use with it. I had been toying with the idea of picking up a Cd Te detector to play with. A fast SSD would really help with resolution. U and Th La’s are easy to see. The problem with the HREE is you have to look at the La and Lb’s which occur in the matrix of everything else and don’t resolve well. Using the Ka, Kb’s requires a 50kV tube up to Pm. Above that you want to be about 10 -20 keV above the binding energy. U and Th occupy a fairly open region above the mess below and are easily seen in the La and Lb range. Rather than cooling down the HPGe detectors I look at the HREE with a homebrew LIBS system which see everything. I’ll be looking in to a CdTe detector but I’m sure I’d also be tempted to get a Fast SSD for the Kevex. What are the specs on your SiPin? Window and SI thickness? What do you have for the CdTe setup? Dud From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Bto the SDehalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 3:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. Does your SDD go above 50 keV? The Si-Pin really falls off sharply, @59.5 is by no means blowing it away, while the X-Rays are fantastic. Over the winter I'll try to get the CdTe sensor online... but have to make a set of cables first between power supply/shaping amp and sensor/preamp head......it's supposed to be good from 5 to above 100 maybe even to 200, but no microfocus exciter in that range.... Recently I accidentally ID'ed uranium by XRF- the rock was not labeled and I didn't suspect it to be radioactive, but there were those U XRF lines right on the button. Will try something with thorium soon. Geo
Dude All Messages By This Member #117 Hi Randall, Yes you never know what state you may be looking at and the ion abundances are different. Are you referring to Ritz vs Observed wavelengths? Lines will move up very slightly with an increasing ionization state. The ionization state II is generally the strongest. Dud toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Randall Buck Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:21 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. Hi Dud, Don't you have to pay attention to ionization states greater than one and the consequent line shift, when using LIBS ? Randall ----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 21:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. My 50kV gun is limited to 50 kV due to the backscatter and the FDA shielding issues. The SSD drops off pretty quickly at about 60 keV for the photoelectric response unlike CdTe which can see the U Ka at 98 easily. A Si Pin is similar to the SSD in range but much poorer in resolution. Both depend on the depletion depths and peaking time. The problem is efficiency at the high energies. I can see Sm with a 50 kV xray but it’s got to be in the percent range. I have a Kevex 60 kV xray microfocus unit here but no detector other than some low energy HPGe’s to use with it. I had been toying with the idea of picking up a Cd Te detector to play with. A fast SSD would really help with resolution. U and Th La’s are easy to see. The problem with the HREE is you have to look at the La and Lb’s which occur in the matrix of everything else and don’t resolve well. Using the Ka, Kb’s requires a 50kV tube up to Pm. Above that you want to be about 10 -20 keV above the binding energy. U and Th occupy a fairly open region above the mess below and are easily seen in the La and Lb range. Rather than cooling down the HPGe detectors I look at the HREE with a homebrew LIBS system which see everything. I’ll be looking in to a CdTe detector but I’m sure I’d also be tempted to get a Fast SSD for the Kevex. What are the specs on your SiPin? Window and SI thickness? What do you have for the CdTe setup? Dud From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Bto the SDehalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 3:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. Does your SDD go above 50 keV? The Si-Pin really falls off sharply, @59.5 is by no means blowing it away, while the X-Rays are fantastic. Over the winter I'll try to get the CdTe sensor online... but have to make a set of cables first between power supply/shaping amp and sensor/preamp head......it's supposed to be good from 5 to above 100 maybe even to 200, but no microfocus exciter in that range.... Recently I accidentally ID'ed uranium by XRF- the rock was not labeled and I didn't suspect it to be radioactive, but there were those U XRF lines right on the button. Will try something with thorium soon. Geo
Randall Buck All Messages By This Member #118 Hi Dud, Nevertheless, very nice bit of apparatus. What kind of laser are you using, solid state ? Randall toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. Hi Randall, Yes you never know what state you may be looking at and the ion abundances are different. Are you referring to Ritz vs Observed wavelengths? Lines will move up very slightly with an increasing ionization state. The ionization state II is generally the strongest. Dud -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Randall Buck Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:21 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. Hi Dud, Don't you have to pay attention to ionization states greater than one and the consequent line shift, when using LIBS ? Randall ----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 21:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. My 50kV gun is limited to 50 kV due to the backscatter and the FDA shielding issues. The SSD drops off pretty quickly at about 60 keV for the photoelectric response unlike CdTe which can see the U Ka at 98 easily. A Si Pin is similar to the SSD in range but much poorer in resolution. Both depend on the depletion depths and peaking time. The problem is efficiency at the high energies. I can see Sm with a 50 kV xray but it’s got to be in the percent range. I have a Kevex 60 kV xray microfocus unit here but no detector other than some low energy HPGe’s to use with it. I had been toying with the idea of picking up a Cd Te detector to play with. A fast SSD would really help with resolution. U and Th La’s are easy to see. The problem with the HREE is you have to look at the La and Lb’s which occur in the matrix of everything else and don’t resolve well. Using the Ka, Kb’s requires a 50kV tube up to Pm. Above that you want to be about 10 -20 keV above the binding energy. U and Th occupy a fairly open region above the mess below and are easily seen in the La and Lb range. Rather than cooling down the HPGe detectors I look at the HREE with a homebrew LIBS system which see everything. I’ll be looking in to a CdTe detector but I’m sure I’d also be tempted to get a Fast SSD for the Kevex. What are the specs on your SiPin? Window and SI thickness? What do you have for the CdTe setup? Dud From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Bto the SDehalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 3:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV clkeanly and how to detect it. Does your SDD go above 50 keV? The Si-Pin really falls off sharply, @59.5 is by no means blowing it away, while the X-Rays are fantastic. Over the winter I'll try to get the CdTe sensor online... but have to make a set of cables first between power supply/shaping amp and sensor/preamp head......it's supposed to be good from 5 to above 100 maybe even to 200, but no microfocus exciter in that range.... Recently I accidentally ID'ed uranium by XRF- the rock was not labeled and I didn't suspect it to be radioactive, but there were those U XRF lines right on the button. Will try something with thorium soon. Geo
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #119 Dudley, I can start to see what you meant about the clutter at the low end. Testing a nice (what I think is) Columbite, it has gobs of niobium and uranium. The low end is a mess. Def. need the K's for those heavies.... CdTe next? Geo
Dude All Messages By This Member #121 开云体育 Look for Tantalum in that as it might be Coltan? Nb/Ta U. Yep the low end is a mess when you get into a rock matrix. ?Fe, Ti, and Mn should be ban from the XRF periodic table in my opinion Dud ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 2:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV cleanly and how to detect it. ? Dudley, I can start to see what you meant about the clutter at the low end. Testing a nice (what I think is) Columbite, it has gobs of niobium and uranium. The low end is a mess. Def. need the K's for those heavies.... CdTe next? Geo
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #122 No Ta could be definitively identified. Later in the day yesterday ran pure Ta metal, no problems, just to verify the correct peaks. When you download and activate the free AMPTEK software, I'll email the .mca files for your minerals from 2013-14 field trip. Geo
Dude All Messages By This Member #123 开云体育 Ok looks like a columbite. I have the AMPTEK software and some of the .mca files. But there are no notes as to what the .mca spectra were obtained from. I need the field notes describing what rock went with what .mca file. Dud ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 8:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV cleanly and how to detect it. ? No Ta could be definitively identified. Later in the day yesterday ran pure Ta metal, no problems, just to verify the correct peaks. When you download and activate the free AMPTEK software, I'll email the .mca files for your minerals from 2013-14 field trip. Geo
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #124 sent in private email, ask if questions. Geo
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #129 Here's one from the Petaca District showing Nb plus definite Ta. It was labeled as Columbite-Tantalite, by the collector.Nb K's 16.61/ 18.62, while the dark blue ones to the left are Ta Ls 8.15/9.34. Geo
Dude All Messages By This Member #130 开云体育 Hmm no U or Th?? Not a lot of Nb. This would be a good Ta Coltan ore if the T is 30% Dud ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV cleanly and how to detect it. ? Here's one from the Petaca District showing Nb plus definite Ta. It was labeled as Columbite-Tantalite, by the collector.Nb K's 16.61/ 18.62, while the dark blue ones to the left are Ta Ls 8.15/9.34. Geo
Dude All Messages By This Member #131 开云体育 Oops had that backwards not a lot of Ta, Nb dominates. Makes it look like a samarskite. Dud ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #132 On that one shown, yes there is uranium, but not enough to notice by XRF compared to the huge niobium content.? Enough to make the Geiger counter (pancake probe) go nut but not enough to analyze with the GR-135. Fine on the pictures of your lab, so THAT's what was in all those storage bins in LV!! Nice looking stuff. WIsh my mess looked that organized..... Geo toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 16:14:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV cleanly and how to detect it. Hmm no U or Th?? Not a lot of Nb. This would be a good Ta Coltan ore if the T is 30% Dud ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@... Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] OK Dude, how do we excite those RE's above 50 keV cleanly and how to detect it. ? Here's one from the Petaca District showing Nb plus definite Ta. It was labeled as Columbite-Tantalite, by the collector.Nb K's 16.61/ 18.62, while the dark blue ones to the left are Ta Ls 8.15/9.34. Geo

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