Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Charles good calibration on that scan! I see 59.5, was this mineral excited, self excited or both?
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: Charles David Young <charlesdavidyoung@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 17:11:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
And here is the last cyrtolite from my collection from Near Pine, CO:
Compared to the South Platte it has more Y and less Fe.
Charles
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:58 AM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, malacon is cyrtolite is alvite is zircon. This variety of zircon has been given over a dozen different names in the past, due to the wet chemical analyses that lumped together the zircon and all of it's inclusions. Since it is usually metamict,
that is, the atomic bonds of the crystals disrupted by alpha particles, it was difficult to do any structural analyses. I'll send you a paper that Mark Jacobson did on this years ago that goes into more detail.
The Wikipedia article on hafnium explains the relationship between Zr anf Hf very well:
Steve
Steve,
Here is the cyrtolite malacon from Madagascar vs the cyrtolite from South Platte.? It appears to have relatively more Zr and less Fe.? Does that comport with malacon?
So I guess what you are saying is that the exsolved minerals in the inclusions can be almost anything and in this case just happen to be
Y, U, Th (because they don't fit well with other minerals that formed earlier?).? So why is there such strong association between Zr and Hf?
Charles
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:59 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, it does not work quite that way. Imagine a crystal lattice, in this case zircon. Zircon is made from the cations Zr and Hf, and the anions Si and O. That's it. Cyrtolite, the variety of zircon, is a rapidly forming mineral in a fluid full of
incompatible elements, those that don't fit in well with other common minerals. Zircon will accept a small portion of these elements into it's structure, like Y, U, Th, and P. But after a certain point, when that structure gets strained, the zircon bouncer
at the door will say "get out". Those elements will be exsolved from the structure and then form their own minerals as inclusions or intergrowths. Remember, elements with the same charge have different ionic radiuses and those will not fit into the zircon
lattice. What they share is the crystal structure, in this case tetragonal.
The same things goes for inclusions in columbite such as euxenite/polycrase, or thorite inclusions in monazite, or argentite inclusions in galena.
Steve
Steve,
What I hear you saying is that if Y is present when cyrtolite is forming then it will be gladly accepted into the structure as xenotime just because it is structurally similar.? Does this relate to the proportion of U and Th?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:38 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note: Mineral classification:? Euxenite = High Nb+Y? Polycrase = High Ti+Y? Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®: Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ? Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000 ??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado ??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville ??????????????????????? ? Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8 Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4 Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5 Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6 Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5 Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7 U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8 Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5 ? Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf. This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required. Dud ? ? ? BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch. So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf ? ? Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite: ? Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite. So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime? I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack. ? Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard? ? On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote: Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now. ? On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote: Lookin¡¯ good Dud ? ? I am still running this scan but the element list is now: I have also included an intermediate .mca file. BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238. ? ? It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks: I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
And here is the last cyrtolite from my collection from Near Pine, CO:
Compared to the South Platte it has more Y and less Fe.
Charles
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:58 AM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, malacon is cyrtolite is alvite is zircon. This variety of zircon has been given over a dozen different names in the past, due to the wet chemical analyses that lumped together the zircon and all of it's inclusions. Since it is usually metamict,
that is, the atomic bonds of the crystals disrupted by alpha particles, it was difficult to do any structural analyses. I'll send you a paper that Mark Jacobson did on this years ago that goes into more detail.
The Wikipedia article on hafnium explains the relationship between Zr anf Hf very well:
Steve
Steve,
Here is the cyrtolite malacon from Madagascar vs the cyrtolite from South Platte.? It appears to have relatively more Zr and less Fe.? Does that comport with malacon?
So I guess what you are saying is that the exsolved minerals in the inclusions can be almost anything and in this case just happen to be
Y, U, Th (because they don't fit well with other minerals that formed earlier?).? So why is there such strong association between Zr and Hf?
Charles
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:59 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, it does not work quite that way. Imagine a crystal lattice, in this case zircon. Zircon is made from the cations Zr and Hf, and the anions Si and O. That's it. Cyrtolite, the variety of zircon, is a rapidly forming mineral in a fluid full of
incompatible elements, those that don't fit in well with other common minerals. Zircon will accept a small portion of these elements into it's structure, like Y, U, Th, and P. But after a certain point, when that structure gets strained, the zircon bouncer
at the door will say "get out". Those elements will be exsolved from the structure and then form their own minerals as inclusions or intergrowths. Remember, elements with the same charge have different ionic radiuses and those will not fit into the zircon
lattice. What they share is the crystal structure, in this case tetragonal.
The same things goes for inclusions in columbite such as euxenite/polycrase, or thorite inclusions in monazite, or argentite inclusions in galena.
Steve
Steve,
What I hear you saying is that if Y is present when cyrtolite is forming then it will be gladly accepted into the structure as xenotime just because it is structurally similar.? Does this relate to the proportion of U and Th?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:38 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note:
Mineral classification:?
Euxenite = High Nb+Y?
Polycrase = High Ti+Y?
Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
2013-14 Ores XRF Using LIXI X-Ray Tube( <50kvP 10 uA) and a high resolution silicon detector.
.mca data on all 16 ores this time as scanned using a LIXI low power, microfocus X-Ray tube. Main setting was 10 microamps, but at sample #Ore-6 I changed the current setting up and down to record any differences for further study later. This being? they are included here.
The detector used was an Amptek SDD 1-2-3 generously provided by Amptek for the duration of this project which ran 24/7 over the winter of 2013-2014. There will be very little difference noted between this "ordinary" SDD when compared to a Si-PIN detector.
.mca files can be read on just about any of the free Amptek MCA programs, I use both ADMCA and DPPMCA.
Geo
|
2013-14 Ores XRF Using Am_X8 in 22.5 degree setting and a high resolution silicon detector.
.mca of all 16 ores with my first impression identification. Since these were made, I have done very little to investigate them further..
As time allows each one will have it's own topic, as an illustration of what can be expected from a high resolution detector and a simple home made isotope exciter.
This is but one of the series, this being with 8000 channels, most at 14,400 seconds run time and with the Am_X8 exciter, which the pellets are set to 22.5 degrees relative to the target (45 degrees to their opposite pellet).
The last one is of a Zirc4 control rod casing to act as background reference.
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Re: Microlite in Rose Muscovite
Hi Geo,
Got Na ?
Of course Na is ubiquitous in its many compounds but I have some small samples of the pure element
sealed in glass under argon.
They are used good, low pressure, 18 W Na vapor lamps. They run upside down so when they cool the Na
condenses at the bottom of the U-shaped arc tube.
Can you use one? for the cost of shipping.
Randall
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: GEOelectronics@... To: [email protected]Sent: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 07:53:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Microlite in Rose Muscovite Thanks Steve.This is a great time to bring this old data (2013) out and discuss the rocks and the different methods of XRF and Gamma Spec, and maybe get some more interesting samples sent in to test here. George Dowell"Geo"
|
Re: Microlite in Rose Muscovite
?Thanks Steve. This is a great time to bring this old data (2013) out and discuss the rocks and the different methods of XRF and Gamma Spec, and maybe get some more interesting samples sent in to? test here.?
George Dowell "Geo"
----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 09:49:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Microlite in Rose Muscovite
Geo, based upon the picture, the label, association with microlite, and the positive ID of rubidium in the sample, I think it can be safely called a lithium mica, generally known as lepidolite. This type of mica usually has from 1-3% rubidium. Pretty
cool! That sample may even be from the Harding mine, looks a lot like what we collect there.
Steve
One of the half-dozen or so minerals used in the study to compare various exciters and sensors used for XRF and Gamma Spectrometry.
First up is the "Microlite in Rose Muscovite"
In one of the Am-X8 exciter jigs with Amptek Silicon Detector.
Attached are the .mca files for the 14,400 second isotope scan, then the 150 second X-Ray tube scan (set at only 10 microamps).
Since the Rb K X-Rays could have been interfered with by the Np-237 X-Rays from the source, the X-Ray tube scan removed any doubt.
Geo
|
Re: Microlite in Rose Muscovite
Geo, based upon the picture, the label, association with microlite, and the positive ID of rubidium in the sample, I think it can be safely called a lithium mica, generally known as lepidolite. This type of mica usually has from 1-3% rubidium. Pretty
cool! That sample may even be from the Harding mine, looks a lot like what we collect there.
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
One of the half-dozen or so minerals used in the study to compare various exciters and sensors used for XRF and Gamma Spectrometry.
First up is the "Microlite in Rose Muscovite"
In one of the Am-X8 exciter jigs with Amptek Silicon Detector.
Attached are the .mca files for the 14,400 second isotope scan, then the 150 second X-Ray tube scan (set at only 10 microamps).
Since the Rb K X-Rays could have been interfered with by the Np-237 X-Rays from the source, the X-Ray tube scan removed any doubt.
Geo
|
Microlite in Rose Muscovite
One of the half-dozen or so minerals used in the study to compare various exciters and sensors used for XRF and Gamma Spectrometry. First up is the "Microlite in Rose Muscovite"  In one of the Am-X8 exciter jigs with Amptek Silicon Detector.  Attached are the .mca files for the 14,400 second isotope scan, then the 150 second X-Ray tube scan (set at only 10 microamps). Since the Rb K X-Rays could have been interfered with by the Np-237 X-Rays from the source, the X-Ray tube scan removed any doubt. Geo
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Charles, malacon is cyrtolite is alvite is zircon. This variety of zircon has been given over a dozen different names in the past, due to the wet chemical analyses that lumped together the zircon and all of it's inclusions. Since it is usually metamict,
that is, the atomic bonds of the crystals disrupted by alpha particles, it was difficult to do any structural analyses. I'll send you a paper that Mark Jacobson did on this years ago that goes into more detail.
The Wikipedia article on hafnium explains the relationship between Zr anf Hf very well:
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve,
Here is the cyrtolite malacon from Madagascar vs the cyrtolite from South Platte.? It appears to have relatively more Zr and less Fe.? Does that comport with malacon?
So I guess what you are saying is that the exsolved minerals in the inclusions can be almost anything and in this case just happen to be
Y, U, Th (because they don't fit well with other minerals that formed earlier?).? So why is there such strong association between Zr and Hf?
Charles
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:59 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, it does not work quite that way. Imagine a crystal lattice, in this case zircon. Zircon is made from the cations Zr and Hf, and the anions Si and O. That's it. Cyrtolite, the variety of zircon, is a rapidly forming mineral in a fluid full of
incompatible elements, those that don't fit in well with other common minerals. Zircon will accept a small portion of these elements into it's structure, like Y, U, Th, and P. But after a certain point, when that structure gets strained, the zircon bouncer
at the door will say "get out". Those elements will be exsolved from the structure and then form their own minerals as inclusions or intergrowths. Remember, elements with the same charge have different ionic radiuses and those will not fit into the zircon
lattice. What they share is the crystal structure, in this case tetragonal.
The same things goes for inclusions in columbite such as euxenite/polycrase, or thorite inclusions in monazite, or argentite inclusions in galena.
Steve
Steve,
What I hear you saying is that if Y is present when cyrtolite is forming then it will be gladly accepted into the structure as xenotime just because it is structurally similar.? Does this relate to the proportion of U and Th?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:38 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note:
Mineral classification:?
Euxenite = High Nb+Y?
Polycrase = High Ti+Y?
Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Steve,
Here is the cyrtolite malacon from Madagascar vs the cyrtolite from South Platte.? It appears to have relatively more Zr and less Fe.? Does that comport with malacon?
So I guess what you are saying is that the exsolved minerals in the inclusions can be almost anything and in this case just happen to be
Y, U, Th (because they don't fit well with other minerals that formed earlier?).? So why is there such strong association between Zr and Hf?
Charles
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:59 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, it does not work quite that way. Imagine a crystal lattice, in this case zircon. Zircon is made from the cations Zr and Hf, and the anions Si and O. That's it. Cyrtolite, the variety of zircon, is a rapidly forming mineral in a fluid full of
incompatible elements, those that don't fit in well with other common minerals. Zircon will accept a small portion of these elements into it's structure, like Y, U, Th, and P. But after a certain point, when that structure gets strained, the zircon bouncer
at the door will say "get out". Those elements will be exsolved from the structure and then form their own minerals as inclusions or intergrowths. Remember, elements with the same charge have different ionic radiuses and those will not fit into the zircon
lattice. What they share is the crystal structure, in this case tetragonal.
The same things goes for inclusions in columbite such as euxenite/polycrase, or thorite inclusions in monazite, or argentite inclusions in galena.
Steve
Steve,
What I hear you saying is that if Y is present when cyrtolite is forming then it will be gladly accepted into the structure as xenotime just because it is structurally similar.? Does this relate to the proportion of U and Th?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:38 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note:
Mineral classification:?
Euxenite = High Nb+Y?
Polycrase = High Ti+Y?
Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Charles, it does not work quite that way. Imagine a crystal lattice, in this case zircon. Zircon is made from the cations Zr and Hf, and the anions Si and O. That's it. Cyrtolite, the variety of zircon, is a rapidly forming mineral in a fluid full of
incompatible elements, those that don't fit in well with other common minerals. Zircon will accept a small portion of these elements into it's structure, like Y, U, Th, and P. But after a certain point, when that structure gets strained, the zircon bouncer
at the door will say "get out". Those elements will be exsolved from the structure and then form their own minerals as inclusions or intergrowths. Remember, elements with the same charge have different ionic radiuses and those will not fit into the zircon
lattice. What they share is the crystal structure, in this case tetragonal.
The same things goes for inclusions in columbite such as euxenite/polycrase, or thorite inclusions in monazite, or argentite inclusions in galena.
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve,
What I hear you saying is that if Y is present when cyrtolite is forming then it will be gladly accepted into the structure as xenotime just because it is structurally similar.? Does this relate to the proportion of U and Th?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:38 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note:
Mineral classification:?
Euxenite = High Nb+Y?
Polycrase = High Ti+Y?
Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Steve,
What I hear you saying is that if Y is present when cyrtolite is forming then it will be gladly accepted into the structure as xenotime just because it is structurally similar.? Does this relate to the proportion of U and Th?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:38 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> wrote:
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note:
Mineral classification:?
Euxenite = High Nb+Y?
Polycrase = High Ti+Y?
Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
I did the gamma spec on these and frankly the Th is quite dominant in some. I use uranothorite as the standard for comparison. Yes, if the Y gets high enough and P is available it will form inclusions of xenotime, in fact that is very well known in zircon.
Just like if the Ag gets too high in galena ( PbS), if forms inclusions of argentite (Ag2S). This is very common in minerals, most do not accept excessive amounts of an element that does not quite fit in with the crystal structure.
I also have Canadian cyrtolites from Davis, MacDonald, JG Gole and Saranac if you want to take a look at those for comparison.
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note:
Mineral classification:?
Euxenite = High Nb+Y?
Polycrase = High Ti+Y?
Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
I had not seen this.? I'll have to take note: Mineral classification:? Euxenite = High Nb+Y? Polycrase = High Ti+Y? Microlite = High Ta+Ca
Yes the Platte is what you called the star twin.? It is really striking.
BTW it seems that you can see the Th content by just doing a gamma spec.? If the 238 peak is large compared to the other daughters then it will have high Th content. At least that is the way it appears based on these few specimens.
So I'll repeat a question about the cyrtolites.? Is the Y content due to xenotime?
Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 9:41 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk < sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting?
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Pretty interesting data, folks. U is generally higher in zircon than Th but the north end of the South Platte is quite different. Other high Th zircons are Mt. Malosa (Malawi) and SW Oklahoma; got some of those too but they are not cyrtolite in my opinion.
I think the Platt sample is the elbow twin, is that correct, Charles? I have one more from that area, I think the Luster mine, and I can send it if you would like to take a look at it; weird looking thing but labeled as cyrtolite. The Branchville peg in the
NE US is a totally different animal, I do have a some very small specimens of cyrtolite from Maine that are also pretty unusual.
Vado is well west of the Cactus, I think that is what Frank said. I think Frank may have some detailed analyses from the Llano area. We should find out.
I attached a portion of a talk on the Petaca that Mike Spilde gave at the Microscopy and Microanalysis convention in Portland on the analyses several years ago, you will likely understand it more than I do, it does have to do with standards. I do not
think he uses pure samples, maybe for calibration of concentrations?
I talked to Mel, he does not have the xrf from NMT, I will get in touch with them and if they do not, maybe get the analyses done again, I have the sample.
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? ?7.3????????? ??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7????????? 1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ? 6.9????????? 1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting?
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯ good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV
indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Branchville was stopped early once I saw the trend.
REE path finder¡¯s Y & Hf?
?Charles
El El mi¨¦, ene. 22, 2020 a la(s) 7:07 p.?m., Dude < dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec
said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative
concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy????
Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9?????????
4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka?????
41.2???????
22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y?????????????
7.5?????????
4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka????
13.3??????? ?7.3?????????
??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7?????????
1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf??????????
2.4?????????
1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U
???????????
2.0?????????
1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ?
6.9?????????
1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U
and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE
path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if
required.
Dud
?
?
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when
Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y &
Hf
?
?
Here
is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached
are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has
the id of thorite.
So
is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of
substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I
am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks,
Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that
what you mean by a standard?
?
On
Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have
it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium
standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok,
here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite
now.
?
On
Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯
good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.?
I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212
peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.?
The Pb214 peak at 295keV indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: XRF - comparing Dud's with my Si-PIN
Mel may have it, I will see if I can get it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve, do you have the xrf data of this from Virgil?
Dud
?
?
Charles, take a look at this. This was identified by xrf by Virgil Leuth at NM Tech; you could not have guessed this is zircon. Mel took this in because it was very odd looking. So xrf looks like
a very useful tool. I took the micro photo of the crystal terminations.
Well I don't have a beam, just Am241 buttons. So I guess that will have to wait until I get a real x-ray source.
?
El El lun, ene. 20, 2020 a la(s) 9:19 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
You would have to get the tightest beam focus possible then zap the mineral from a variety of angles. Try that and see what you get, that might be interesting.
So would I be able to see anything one way or another with my Si-PIN?
?
El El lun, ene. 20, 2020 a la(s) 9:06 p.?m., WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> escribi¨®:
I'm sure they are Charles, for sure the ones from the South Platte peg area, those are probably intergrown with thorite, both are tetragonal and exsolve after a certain point. But it is hard to find
detailed analyses of those. I suspect the Llano cyrtolites are like that too, maybe Frank has some good analyses of those. Cyrtolites are formed during a late stage so they likely are all pretty messy, a conglomeration of several rare minerals.?
Steve, I don't understand everything you said but are any of my cyrtolites examples of this?
?
El El s¨¢b, ene. 18, 2020 a la(s) 10:09 p.?m., Dude <dfemer@...> escribi¨®:
Steve,
Zircon HREE¡¯s are interesting. Why do the heavies kick up in the xenotime.? Are there other zircons in the area that still hold the HREE without any exsolution and at what concentration??
How many episodes of mineralization have these materials been through or is it all one unaltered emplacement?
Dud
?
Here are a couple of examples of how messy these minerals can be. The zircon from the Coats is a variety called cyrtolite. If you look at the photos at the bottom of the sheet you can see how xenotime
is shot through the zircon; these minerals are chemically different but structurally the same. As the zircon crystallized, the xenotime exsolved. Next example is a very strange powdery looking thorite. The normally dark glassy thorite has been replaced by
xenotime at a late stage, hence an odd altered white thorite that is about 15% REE. Note how high Dy is in these analyses. Beam sizes varied from 3 to 20 microns. Late stage xenotime alteration of minerals is very common in the district, and these types of
alteration and exsolution examples are common in many rare mineral districts.
Geo,
I would venture to say precise quantitative analysis is beyond the reach of the professionals as well. For a simple matrix it works fine but for a complicated matrix like rocks
and junk it doesn¡¯t and varies wildly.? A ?SEM Micro probe properly calibrated is great, but a wide beam on a target leaves a lot to be desired as you¡¯ll get a mix of interferences. Then there¡¯s the software, some good, some bad and none doing everything well
and all are complicated to set up.? Believe nothing, verify everything and use it as an anomaly finder, then send it out for a real ICP/MS analysis.
Soils is FP the other is a element cal.? Soils has 3 beams with filters at 50, 40 and 10 Kv Mining uses 50 and 10 Kv beams. The new software is called Geochem and you don¡¯t need
to switch between the modes. It¡¯s expensive though.? I mostly use soils mode as I¡¯m looking for ppm anomalies.
?
A direct inter-comparison is not going to work very well unlike gamma spec where the target is the source. In the XRF world we provide the source which is going to be very different
between everyone¡¯s setup, beam size, ?intensity and to a lesser extent detector characteristics.
?
I¡¯m still looking for a CdTe rig . I have a 60kV microfocus system I¡¯d like to get running with it. I can use the LE ?HPGe detectors but a CdTe will have better resolution and no
LN2 issues
Dud
?
?
"Based on the reported percentages the assay you are looking at was done using the Soils mode which is used when
looking at PPM level concentrations. The Soils mode will well over report percent level concentrations? For samples with percent grade material they would be shot with the Mining Plus mode."
I agree that precise quantitative analysis is beyond the reach of our amateur efforts at the moment. My first question is what is the difference between SOILS mode and Mining Mode? Or perhaps I should
ask WHERE is the difference? Is it a scanning technique or is it all in software?
The price of FP software has declined by about 50% already, but that took some years to happen. Meantime I think we can all agree that direct comparison to a known assayed mineral is a legitimate goal,
as long as the sensors are the same type?
That's how I do uranium ore %, Cs-137 in soil,? and radium sample estimate , by direct comparison with calibrated samples.
On another thread, has anyone else anywhere else reported getting one of these DP-5 processors up and running? It seems that maybe 20 or so of them have actually been sold, maybe a few more.
So qualitatively the results from both XRFs seem to be similar.? I will be looking at other specimens that you analyzed as well to see if they jive with my setup.
So what about the
FeSi escape vs TiKa1 issue?? Attached is a closeup of that region for the TMG columbite (was samarskite Tub #2).? It sure seems like the
TiKa1 lines up better and it would be consistent with the Ti that you detected.
On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:27 AM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Charles,
Based on the reported percentages the assay you are looking at was
done using the Soils mode which is used when looking at PPM level concentrations.
The Soils mode will well over report percent level concentrations? For samples
with percent grade material they would be shot with the Mining Plus mode.? See
if we shot that sample with both modes and use the Mining Plus mode to try a
cross calibrate with.? It¡¯s doubtful that you¡¯ll get a very good cross cal as its
dependent on the element , matrix effects and detector efficiency over energy
as well as detector / x-ray geometry and x-ray flux.?
Cals are done using the Fundamental Parameter approach or by
running each element using a calibration curve.? A cal curve can be built using
an element oxide and blending it down to PPM levels. That curve is still
dependent on distance of the target to the detector / X-ray geometry (also air
temp and moisture content and air density if you want to get picky) but most
importantly is the x-ray flux and beam filtering.? For your case you would have
to normalize it to the Am-241 signal.? The system needs to have a fixed ROI for
each element and you would use the baseline corrected area in that ROI as the
measured parameter. Complicating that are matrix effects where any other peaks that
are intruding in that ROI must be de-convolved from it and the area corrected
for it. A Gaussian correction could be used The most important thing you need
to do is get a handle on the detector/X-ray/ target geometry. It must be the
same all the time. The beam angle to the target and the detector should be
changed from your dual illumination set up to a single beam path and keep the
angle around 30 deg or so to minimize backscatter.
Quantitative gamma ray spectroscopy is much simpler compared to
quantitative XRF and I never trust my XRF reported values without a great deal
of skepticism and review
Dud
?
?
?
Nearly 2 years ago (5/23/18) Dud was kind enough to shoot
some of my specimens with his XRF "gun", which has a pinpoint xray
source.? Several of my rocks were found in the rubble piles of the local
rock shop "Tucson Mineral and Gem World", which has been open for
about 60 years.? One piece is large and ugly:
Looking at my results (blue scan) the Nb peak is off the
charts!? Even more significant is that Dud's results show the same thing:
Comparing these percentages to the relative heights of the
same peaks on my scan one finds similar proportions.? It is very
satisfying to know that my results largely corroborate those of Dud's.
Also plotted is a samarskite from Little Patsy.? It has
a relatively high Y component.
?
?
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Charles, here¡¯s the Branchville update.? As the gamma spec
said, U does lead the Th.? Branchville could use a longer count. ?
Assuming everything was kept constant here¡¯s the relative
concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
??????????????????????? ??? ??????? ?????????Vado
??? Patsy????
Platt?????? Cactus???? Branchville
??????????????????????? ?
Zr Kb????? ??5.9?????????
4.4????????? 7.4?????? ? 8.8
Zr Ka?????
41.2???????
22.3??????? 47.5??????? 90.4
Y?????????????
7.5?????????
4.5?????????11.9?????? ? 6.5
Fe Ka????
13.3??????? ?7.3?????????
??3.7?????? ? 7.6
Fe Kb????? ?2.7?????????
1.6?????? ??? 1.5?????? ? 2.5
Hf??????????
2.4?????????
1.4????????? ? 3.9??????? ?4.7
U
???????????
2.0?????????
1.2????????? ?2.1??????? ? 7.8
Th????????? ?
6.9?????????
1.4???????? ? 1.5??????? ? 3.5
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There is some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf, U
and Th
Cactus (Vado) looks pretty good for the most interesting? REE
path finder¡¯s Y & Hf.
This is a quick first look, it can be tuned a lot better if
required.
Dud
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles David Young
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 1:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
?
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when
Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes Vado interesting? REE path finder¡¯s Y &
Hf
?
?
Here
is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached
are the scans of both cyrtolites from South Platte.? The latest also has
the id of thorite.
So
is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in cyrtolites because of
substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I
am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks,
Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99% zirconium.? Is that
what you mean by a standard?
?
On
Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles, you should have
it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you have a zirconium
standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok,
here are the final files.? I'll start the other South Platte cyrtolite
now.
?
On
Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯
good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay chains.?
I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one) whose Pb212
peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of Th232.?
The Pb214 peak at 295keV indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
BTW "Cactus Jack" was initially misidentified when Frank gave it to me.? He later told me that it is in fact from Vado Ranch.
So what makes
Vado interesting?
Charles
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dude < dfemer@...> wrote:
Charles,
Assuming everything was kept constant ?here¡¯s the relative
concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus
Zr Kb????? 5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5????????? 11.9
Th?????????? 6.9????????? 1.4????????? 1.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? 7.3????????? 3.7
Fe kb???? 2.7????????? 1.6????????? 1.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? 3.9
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? 2.1
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf and Th
Cactus looks pretty good for the most interesting
Dud
?
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South
Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in
cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99%
zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles,
you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you
have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other
South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯
good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay
chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one)
whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of
Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
|
Re: cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
Charles,
Assuming everything was kept constant ?here¡¯s the relative
concentration for each cyrtolite
CpsX1000
Patsy???? Platt?????? Cactus
Zr Kb????? 5.9????????? 4.4????????? 7.4
Zr Ka????? 41.2??????? 22.3??????? 47.5
Y????????????? 7.5????????? 4.5????????? 11.9
Th?????????? 6.9????????? 1.4????????? 1.5
Fe Ka???? 13.3??????? 7.3????????? 3.7
Fe kb???? 2.7????????? 1.6????????? 1.5
Hf?????????? 2.4????????? 1.4????????? 3.9
U ??????????? 2.0????????? 1.2????????? 2.1
?
Platt is generally low which may be a geometry problem
There some variability between them in Zr, Fe, Y, Hf and Th
Cactus looks pretty good for the most interesting
Dud
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles David Young
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 7:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] cyrtolite Little Patsy XRF
?
Here is the addition of the Burnet County, TX cyrtolite:
?
Attached are the scans of both cyrtolites from South
Platte.? The latest also has the id of thorite.
So is it fair to say that that Hf, Zr, and Th are common in
cyrtolites because of substitution?? Also, is the Y due to the xenotime?
I am now scanning the cyrtolite from Cactus Jack.
?
Thanks, Steve!? Hm, what is impressive? I have some 99%
zirconium.? Is that what you mean by a standard?
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:46 PM WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> wrote:
Charles,
you should have it QA'ed by someone else, but wow, that is impressive. Do you
have a zirconium standard? I've got a zirconium disc if you need one.
Ok, here are the final files.? I'll start the other
South Platte cyrtolite now.
?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:17 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Lookin¡¯
good
Dud
?
?
I am still running this scan but the element list is now:
I have also included an intermediate .mca file.
BTW my gamma scans show this is a combination of U238 and Th232 decay
chains.? I have attached scans of various cyrtolites (including this one)
whose Pb212 peaks at 238keV are relatively large, indicating the presence of
Th232.? The Pb214 peak at 295keV indicates U238.
?
?
It is still early but here are some of the strongest peaks:
I'll send the .mca later when I have some decent counts.
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