Welcome to the XRF Wiki. This Wiki is a repository of information contributed by members of [email protected]. Members can view and edit the pages. The pages are currently not viewable by the public. The pages below represent a rough overview of the technology and techniques associated with X-Ray Florescence Spectroscopy as well as serving as a place for members to organize the spectra that they have contributed to the forum.?
As a starting point, the pages will be populated by information taken from member posts from the past few years - with references/attribution. Perhaps in time, these pages can be edited by members to make them more complete and less choppy. Members can also edit this page, making the structure of the content more organized.?
Pages can contain information about a particular topic, links to relevant resources (such as manuals, research papers, etc.), links to relevant forum discussions on the topic, book titles, or anything that might be useful.
What follows is very much a work in progress.
?
Adding to the Wiki
For those unfamiliar with the Wiki phenomenon, it is basically a user editable encyclopedia. The idea is that there are pages with different articles, which the user can read and also choose to edit if desired. If a piece of information is incorrect, a link outdated, or the presentation choppy or unclear, the user can just click "Edit Page" at the bottom and then fix the mistake. There is also a "Page History," so if you a user were to make a mistake or maliciously destroy a page (which wouldn't happen here) an editor can come along and restore the page to a previous version.?
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This section describes the hardware used for XRF. We will describe the basic theory of operation of each stage in the processing tool chain and then present different commercial systems that are available as these systems are often integrated together.
[Editor note: General theory needs to be in an independent page separate from specific manufacturer information.
[Editor note - question: Should this be arranged by category, e.g detectors, preamps, etc or by manufacturer with the manufacturers product line on one page. Perhaps it's best to put a list of products with theory but the details of the products on a manufacture page...]
Detectors?- what's available, theory of operation, tradeoffs
Detector Cooling?- keeping detectors cool to avoid thermal noise and keeping the TEC from overheating
Preamps?- theory of operation, brief summary of what out there (and what not to do - such as trying to use a PMT preamp for a SiPIN diode...)
Pulse Processing Theory - high level overview of the stages of going from detector pulse to channel peaks on the computer
Commercial Systems - many commercial systems are integrated so it seems to make sense to present, for example all Amptek products together. [question: are their other affordable integrated systems besides Amptek?]
Hi Taray, the ones we get, very old tech and cheap have full Zn can, covered with thin plastic wrapper. This one is a C size cell, enough to supply materialt to everyone on the group- A shame to waste in trash. Geo
Save a dead Zinc-Carbon dry cell from the trash can.
Take it apart, save the manganese based electrolytic in a min plastic baggie. Only a gram or 2 is needed, but also save the ZInc metal can and carbon rod for future experiments.
XRF the baggie to get precise Mn Kb1 line at 6.49keV and a bonus line from zinc that is included along in the black stuff.? Use the Zn Ka1 and Ka2-line average of 8.627keV. Use your exciter for the top end= 59.54keV.
Good results with ordinary small pebbles and sand from ant hills, collected in 2011 by J.H.
These were originally comingled with some tramp Trinitite shards, which has been removed.
From earlier "skimming" experiments, I came of with one that seems to provide pretty good Ca (calcium element) detection. That's good because this desert sand is loaded with Ca. Most of the actual quartz I've identified needed a microscope, but at that level, quartz prevails. Under the smallest of shards I can make out on the stereo inspection scope are more layers of even finer dust, all presumably also quartz. This all exists in a soup of calcium/ calcite and some salts, all of which evaporate separately in the rinse bath. I've made some well slides and ring slides with examples, for examination later on a real compound microscope in the shop.
These are a few charts and .mca files of of the less than 1g to 4 or 5g samples of small pebbles, some of which are clean solid rocks and have quite a mixture of elements like Ca, Fe, Co, Ni, Zn, W,Sr, Zr, Mo
Thank you so much, Dud!!? I've been waiting 50 years for an analysis.? As everyone knows, wet chemical analysis of REEs is difficult - I tried, but the high density liquids are above the reach of my check book in retirement.? XRF was, at best, still in the lab when I collected these.? Analysis was waiting for this tool.?
I have seldom been a fan of individual samples/crystals with no matrix in which the sample formed.? Much of the petrogensus is missing without the matrix.? I was also surprised to detect no radioactives, as I had expected them.? I believe the 'Greenies' ultimately were responsible of the original mine closure at Mt. Pass for 'spilling and polluting' the desert floor with thorium (what little there was).? Some 50+ years ago when I collected these specimens, all I had was the GM Counter we built in one of the lab courses I took in college (1967?).? It used a single original 1B85 before the first collapse of the tube.? That counter is now on 1B85 #3 due to unprovoked collapse - typical of that GM tube.?
Feel free to pass those samples around for correlation between setups (like Geo).? If anyone else wants small samples of their own, I could spare a few.? I managed to pull about 3 lbs. from the original collection bag of 50 years ago out of the burned down garage of the 2012 forest fire. ? All are very distinctly more massive than the average silicate (higher specific gravity noted in the hand specimens likely due to the REE content).? Just let me know.
On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 4:15 PM dfemer <dfemer@...> wrote:
?
?Dave,
Attached are the XRF shots of the two? Mt Pass Bastnasite samples
you sent me
The large sample (#1) that had the galena stringer in it was shot on
both sides as well as the "sparkly" stringer which, as you guessed, is
Galena - PbS. See the Eckhart log file for the positive ID picks, other
elements in the shot files are not verified due to peak over lap or no
confirming Kb or Lb peak. The percentages are higher than actual as the
calibrate that was used was for ppm level elements which will over report
percentages in this mode.
?
Bastnasite is (Ce,La)CO3F and in this case is hosted in a Carbonatite
which is an igneous sourced rock with predominantly carbonate minerals but also
having the siliceous , oxide, and phosphate type mineralization
In these samples we see Ca S, P,? Fe, Sr, and Ba dominating. For
the rare earth elements Ce and La, dominate but Nd, Pr and some Nb are also
seen.? The P is most probably due to apatite or some monazite.
Surprisingly the U and Th content is below the detection level and that was
unexpected as my prospecting around the Mt pass complex has shown high Th with
some U.
I suspect the high Sr and Ba are from Barite (Ba, Sr) SO4 while the Fe
and S are due to pyrite FeS2
?
The highest Ce is found in the large #1 galena stringer sample at 1.8%
Ce with La at 1.2%. The Galena stringer has a Pb content of 10.6% with 11 ppm
Cd. Cd is commonly associated with Galena.? In general the Pb in the other
samples are much lower. The small sample # 2 had a 1.1% Pb content and had what
looked like an oxidized galena coating under the microscope.
?
I also included a shot of "Mt Pass MolyCorp White Earth
Concentrate" that was in a 5 gallon bucket I sub sampled from a company
going out of business.
While it said "White Earth? Concentrate" it is actually
a dark grey powder. Its elemental composition is predominantly Ti and Ca. The
Ba and Sr are low in the 100's of ppm and its slightly radioactive with Th at
239 ppm.? Nb is at 2602 ,Nd 3138, Pr 819, Ce 7136, La 2973 and Zr at 803
ppm. Quite a bit different than the actual rocks.
This was a nice host rock sample set showing what the actual
carbonatite looks like rather than running a crystal of just bastnasite which
one usually gets.
Having an official assay like that is invaluable. Especially if you can circulate the samples for us to test and compare our outfits to the commercial analysis.
----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected], 'David Eckhardt' <davearea51a@...> Sent: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 10:15:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [XRF] Mt Pass Bastnasite
?
?Dave,
Attached are the XRF shots of the two? Mt Pass Bastnasite samples you sent me
The large sample (#1) that had the galena stringer in it was shot on both sides as well as the "sparkly" stringer which, as you guessed, is Galena - PbS. See the Eckhart log file for the positive ID picks, other elements in the shot files are not verified due to peak over lap or no confirming Kb or Lb peak. The percentages are higher than actual as the calibrate that was used was for ppm level elements which will over report percentages in this mode.
?
Bastnasite is (Ce,La)CO3F and in this case is hosted in a Carbonatite which is an igneous sourced rock with predominantly carbonate minerals but also having the siliceous , oxide, and phosphate type mineralization
In these samples we see Ca S, P,? Fe, Sr, and Ba dominating. For the rare earth elements Ce and La, dominate but Nd, Pr and some Nb are also seen.? The P is most probably due to apatite or some monazite. Surprisingly the U and Th content is below the detection level and that was unexpected as my prospecting around the Mt pass complex has shown high Th with some U.
I suspect the high Sr and Ba are from Barite (Ba, Sr) SO4 while the Fe and S are due to pyrite FeS2
?
The highest Ce is found in the large #1 galena stringer sample at 1.8% Ce with La at 1.2%. The Galena stringer has a Pb content of 10.6% with 11 ppm Cd. Cd is commonly associated with Galena.? In general the Pb in the other samples are much lower. The small sample # 2 had a 1.1% Pb content and had what looked like an oxidized galena coating under the microscope.
?
I also included a shot of "Mt Pass MolyCorp White Earth Concentrate" that was in a 5 gallon bucket I sub sampled from a company going out of business.
While it said "White Earth? Concentrate" it is actually a dark grey powder. Its elemental composition is predominantly Ti and Ca. The Ba and Sr are low in the 100's of ppm and its slightly radioactive with Th at 239 ppm.? Nb is at 2602 ,Nd 3138, Pr 819, Ce 7136, La 2973 and Zr at 803 ppm. Quite a bit different than the actual rocks.
This was a nice host rock sample set showing what the actual carbonatite looks like rather than running a crystal of just bastnasite which one usually gets.
Attached are the XRF shots of the two? Mt Pass Bastnasite samples
you sent me
The large sample (#1) that had the galena stringer in it was shot on
both sides as well as the "sparkly" stringer which, as you guessed, is
Galena - PbS. See the Eckhart log file for the positive ID picks, other
elements in the shot files are not verified due to peak over lap or no
confirming Kb or Lb peak. The percentages are higher than actual as the
calibrate that was used was for ppm level elements which will over report
percentages in this mode.
?
Bastnasite is (Ce,La)CO3F and in this case is hosted in a Carbonatite
which is an igneous sourced rock with predominantly carbonate minerals but also
having the siliceous , oxide, and phosphate type mineralization
In these samples we see Ca S, P,? Fe, Sr, and Ba dominating. For
the rare earth elements Ce and La, dominate but Nd, Pr and some Nb are also
seen.? The P is most probably due to apatite or some monazite.
Surprisingly the U and Th content is below the detection level and that was
unexpected as my prospecting around the Mt pass complex has shown high Th with
some U.
I suspect the high Sr and Ba are from Barite (Ba, Sr) SO4 while the Fe
and S are due to pyrite FeS2
?
The highest Ce is found in the large #1 galena stringer sample at 1.8%
Ce with La at 1.2%. The Galena stringer has a Pb content of 10.6% with 11 ppm
Cd. Cd is commonly associated with Galena.? In general the Pb in the other
samples are much lower. The small sample # 2 had a 1.1% Pb content and had what
looked like an oxidized galena coating under the microscope.
?
I also included a shot of "Mt Pass MolyCorp White Earth
Concentrate" that was in a 5 gallon bucket I sub sampled from a company
going out of business.
While it said "White Earth? Concentrate" it is actually
a dark grey powder. Its elemental composition is predominantly Ti and Ca. The
Ba and Sr are low in the 100's of ppm and its slightly radioactive with Th at
239 ppm.? Nb is at 2602 ,Nd 3138, Pr 819, Ce 7136, La 2973 and Zr at 803
ppm. Quite a bit different than the actual rocks.
This was a nice host rock sample set showing what the actual
carbonatite looks like rather than running a crystal of just bastnasite which
one usually gets.
Thanks Dud, and I did
include liquid dish soap after you reminded me about a surfactant? while
back, thanks for that too.
?
Back when we had
"frosted" incandescent light bulbs, a few burned out ones were
dissected for their elements, special metals for supports, filament and
wire-to-glass seals etc. The inside of the bulbs were coated with a white
powder which I also scrapped and saved, will have to dig that out and XRF and
gamma spec it. Seems like it was also kaolin clay.
From: "DFEMER"
<dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021
3:12:17 PM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
?
I though the Sr was your sample
holder.
Feldspar will break down
and weather by hydrolysis forming kaolinite which is a hydrated aluminum
silicate commonly called kaolin clay. It¡¯s usually white, soft and kinda earthy
looking. Clays will cling to things and you'll need a surfactant get them
separated. Alconox or dish soap may help, but good luck as the gold panners
have fits with it.
This outfit can go as high
as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it
using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be
seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That
being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the
neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non
Trinitite sand particles.
?
Somewhere I read the
neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for
gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
?
Eu-152 is coming out of
several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards
something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging
along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any
Eu-152, even the HCl.
?
So no conclusions just
yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152 sequestered.
Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base mineral?? That
could take a week of 24/7.
?
The last thought, after
picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one
will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those
tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
?
Geo
?
From: "DFEMER"
<dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021
10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
?
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca
replacement in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of
your anthill sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152 from.
The down side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a 50 KV
x-ray is not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low
concentration it¡¯s just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So
the next step is to search for other rare earth elements in either sand or
Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a sufficient quantity of Trinitite
to XRF it for stable and other elements?
From: "DFEMER" <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 3:12:17 PM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
I though the Sr was your
sample holder.
Feldspar will break down
and weather by hydrolysis forming kaolinite which is a hydrated aluminum
silicate commonly called kaolin clay. It¡¯s usually white, soft and kinda earthy
looking. Clays will cling to things and you'll need a surfactant get them separated.
Alconox or dish soap may help, but good luck as the gold panners have fits with
it.
This outfit can go as high
as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it
using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be
seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That
being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the
neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non
Trinitite sand particles.
?
Somewhere I read the
neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for
gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
?
Eu-152 is coming out of
several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards
something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging
along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any
Eu-152, even the HCl.
?
So no conclusions just
yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152
sequestered. Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base
mineral?? That could take a week of 24/7.
?
The last thought, after
picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one
will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those
tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
?
Geo
?
From: "DFEMER"
<dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021
10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
?
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca
replacement in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of
your anthill sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152
from. The down side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a
50 KV x-ray is not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low
concentration it¡¯s just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So
the next step is to search for other rare earth elements in either sand or
Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a sufficient quantity of Trinitite
to XRF it for stable and other elements?
Thanks Dud, and I did include liquid dish soap after you reminded me about a surfactant? while back, thanks for that too.
Back when we had "frosted" incandescent light bulbs, a few burned out ones were dissected for their elements, special metals for supports, filament and wire-to-glass seals etc. The inside of the bulbs were coated with a white powder which I also scrapped and saved, will have to dig that out and XRF and gamma spec it. Seems like it was also kaolin clay.
From: "DFEMER" <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 3:12:17 PM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
I though the Sr was your
sample holder.
Feldspar will break down
and weather by hydrolysis forming kaolinite which is a hydrated aluminum
silicate commonly called kaolin clay. It¡¯s usually white, soft and kinda earthy
looking. Clays will cling to things and you'll need a surfactant get them separated.
Alconox or dish soap may help, but good luck as the gold panners have fits with
it.
This outfit can go as high
as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it
using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be
seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That
being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the
neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non
Trinitite sand particles.
?
Somewhere I read the
neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for
gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
?
Eu-152 is coming out of
several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards
something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging
along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any
Eu-152, even the HCl.
?
So no conclusions just
yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152
sequestered. Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base
mineral?? That could take a week of 24/7.
?
The last thought, after
picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one
will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those
tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
?
Geo
?
From: "DFEMER"
<dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021
10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
?
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca
replacement in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of
your anthill sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152
from. The down side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a
50 KV x-ray is not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low
concentration it¡¯s just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So
the next step is to search for other rare earth elements in either sand or
Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a sufficient quantity of Trinitite
to XRF it for stable and other elements?
This outfit can go as high as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non Trinitite sand particles.
Somewhere I read the neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
Eu-152 is coming out of several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any Eu-152, even the HCl.
So no conclusions just yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152 sequestered. Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base mineral?? That could take a week of 24/7.
The last thought, after picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
Geo
From: "DFEMER" <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca replacement
in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of your anthill
sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152 from. The down
side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a 50 KV x-ray is
not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low concentration it¡¯s
just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So the next step is to search for other rare
earth elements in either sand or Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a
sufficient quantity of Trinitite to XRF it for stable and other elements?
Feldspar will break down
and weather by hydrolysis forming kaolinite which is a hydrated aluminum
silicate commonly called kaolin clay. It¡¯s usually white, soft and kinda earthy
looking. Clays will cling to things and you'll need a surfactant get them separated.
Alconox or dish soap may help, but good luck as the gold panners have fits with
it.
This outfit can go as high
as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it
using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be
seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That
being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the
neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non
Trinitite sand particles.
?
Somewhere I read the
neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for
gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
?
Eu-152 is coming out of
several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards
something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging
along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any
Eu-152, even the HCl.
?
So no conclusions just
yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152
sequestered. Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base
mineral?? That could take a week of 24/7.
?
The last thought, after
picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one
will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those
tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
From: "DFEMER"
<dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021
10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
?
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca
replacement in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of
your anthill sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152
from. The down side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a
50 KV x-ray is not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low
concentration it¡¯s just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So
the next step is to search for other rare earth elements in either sand or
Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a sufficient quantity of Trinitite
to XRF it for stable and other elements?
This outfit can go as high as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non Trinitite sand particles.
Somewhere I read the neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
Eu-152 is coming out of several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any Eu-152, even the HCl.
So no conclusions just yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152 sequestered. Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base mineral?? That could take a week of 24/7.
The last thought, after picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
Geo
From: "DFEMER" <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca replacement
in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of your anthill
sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152 from. The down
side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a 50 KV x-ray is
not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low concentration it¡¯s
just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So the next step is to search for other rare
earth elements in either sand or Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a
sufficient quantity of Trinitite to XRF it for stable and other elements?
This outfit can go as high as 52.9kVp, but there just are not enough atoms of Eu to detect in any of it using my XRF. Same goes for Cs, U Th but their radioactive decay can easily be seen. It can see strontium (I think) and barium, Fe, Cu in the red etc. That being said, there must be billions of atoms of naturally occurring Eu for the neutron activated version is ubiquitous in Trinitite and very common in non Trinitite sand particles.
Somewhere I read the neutron flux was something like 1.5 X 10e15 per cm^2. Also except for gadolinium, Eu has the highest neutron capture rate.
Eu-152 is coming out of several, even many, different rock types, which is why I was leaning towards something like feldspar being powdered by age, and one of the coatings dragging along the Eu, but so far none of the acids or abrasives have dragged out any Eu-152, even the HCl.
So no conclusions just yet, but at least we still have the bulk of the non-Trinitite bearing Eu-152 sequestered. Maybe next I'll select a few and rock-tumble them down to base mineral?? That could take a week of 24/7.
The last thought, after picking out all of the micro-shards of Greenies under a microscope, I for one will be wearing a face mask at Trinity Site from now on. With all those tourists kicking up dust on visitors day especially.
From: "DFEMER" <dfemer@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 10:56:45 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite
Geo,
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca replacement
in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of your anthill
sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152 from. The down
side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a 50 KV x-ray is
not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low concentration it¡¯s
just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So the next step is to search for other rare
earth elements in either sand or Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a
sufficient quantity of Trinitite to XRF it for stable and other elements?
Unfortunately Eu is one of
the rarer REE's with a crustal abundance from 0.8 to 2 ppm. It does a Ca replacement
in plagioclase feldspar which, based on the granitic texture of your anthill
sands, is probably the host mineral you are getting the Eu-152 from. The down
side of XRF for Eu is it has a binding energy of 48.5keV, so a 50 KV x-ray is
not going to light this up to any extent and due to the low concentration it¡¯s
just not going to see anything.
I don¡¯t have any Trinitite
here. What did your 50 kV shot look like?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission
product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected
to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in
Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds
of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also
tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of
its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no
fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu?
element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths
and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So the next step is to search for other rare
earth elements in either sand or Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a
sufficient quantity of Trinitite to XRF it for stable and other elements?
We know from literature that Eu-152 is not a particularly abundant fission product. Now we knpw there is Eu-152 in sand that was not melted or subjected to the fallout from the Trinity event. Scientists tell us the Eu-152 in Trinitite was created by the neutron bombardment in the first few microseconds of the Trinity event, before the gadget started to disassemble. Literature also tells us the Eu element is highly receptive of neutrons, and therefore one of its major uses is as a neutron absorber in reactors etc.
My recent experiments have isolated a considerable quantity of Eu-152, and no fission products (Cs-137) or plutonium-239 present.
No surprises here, but why was there so much of this extremely rareEu? element present in the desert sand at that locations to start with?
On line searches make it clear that Eu associates with other? rare earths and is mined primarily from the minerals "bastn?site,?loparite- (Ce),?xenotime, and?monazite".
?So the next step is to search for other rare earth elements in either sand or Trinitite. Dudley, do you or Fred? have a sufficient quantity of Trinitite to XRF it for stable and other elements?
