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XRF Wiki
Welcome to the XRF Wiki. This Wiki is a repository of information contributed by members of [email protected]. Members can view and edit the pages. The pages are currently not viewable by the public. The pages below represent a rough overview of the technology and techniques associated with X-Ray Florescence Spectroscopy as well as serving as a place for members to organize the spectra that they have contributed to the forum.?
As a starting point, the pages will be populated by information taken from member posts from the past few years - with references/attribution. Perhaps in time, these pages can be edited by members to make them more complete and less choppy. Members can also edit this page, making the structure of the content more organized.?
Pages can contain information about a particular topic, links to relevant resources (such as manuals, research papers, etc.), links to relevant forum discussions on the topic, book titles, or anything that might be useful.
What follows is very much a work in progress.
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Adding to the Wiki
For those unfamiliar with the Wiki phenomenon, it is basically a user editable encyclopedia. The idea is that there are pages with different articles, which the user can read and also choose to edit if desired. If a piece of information is incorrect, a link outdated, or the presentation choppy or unclear, the user can just click "Edit Page" at the bottom and then fix the mistake. There is also a "Page History," so if you a user were to make a mistake or maliciously destroy a page (which wouldn't happen here) an editor can come along and restore the page to a previous version.?
If you have used MediaWiki (the engine that runs behind the scene of Wikipedia.org) you will be familiar with a certain style of creating an article. There are tags that one uses to change the formatting of the parts of the article. The Wiki on Groups.io uses a different background engine and so the standard MediaWiki syntax does not apply here. Rather, the page is edited using the same tools as one would use to compose a message on the forums. If you are a programmer or someone who likes using the tagged syntax directly, you can access the underlying page source code, be activating the advanced editing toolbar (the icon with three lines on the far right of the basic toolbar) and then clicking on the source code icon <> on the far right of the Advance Editing Toolbar. You will immediately notice that the underlying source code is HTML. Most things can be done just by using the various icons, but advanced features like table can only be implemented by manually writing the source code. (Although there are website available that will generate the source code for you through a graphical interface.)
Here are some useful resources from Groups.io:?
Wiki Guide for Users and Editors
Message Composition Tips and Tricks
Overview of XRF
X-Ray Florescence vs. X-Ray Diffraction
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Hardware
This section describes the hardware used for XRF. We will describe the basic theory of operation of each stage in the processing tool chain and then present different commercial systems that are available as these systems are often integrated together.
[Editor note: General theory needs to be in an independent page separate from specific manufacturer information.
[Editor note - question: Should this be arranged by category, e.g detectors, preamps, etc or by manufacturer with the manufacturers product line on one page. Perhaps it's best to put a list of products with theory but the details of the products on a manufacture page...]
Detectors?- what's available, theory of operation, tradeoffs
Detector Cooling?- keeping detectors cool to avoid thermal noise and keeping the TEC from overheating
Preamps?- theory of operation, brief summary of what out there (and what not to do - such as trying to use a PMT preamp for a SiPIN diode...)
Pulse Processing Theory - high level overview of the stages of going from detector pulse to channel peaks on the computer
Commercial Systems - many commercial systems are integrated so it seems to make sense to present, for example all Amptek products together. [question: are their other affordable integrated systems besides Amptek?]
Amptek XRF System
Activation Sources - what do you use to make the sample fluoresce (that's within the amateur budget and doesn't require special licensing)
Software
- Device Control Software - what do you use to collect the data from the detector system
- XRF Analysis Software - what do you use to analyze the data, especially for quantitative measurements (composition percentages, thin film measurement)
- Free Software Tools
Note: there may be software packages that possess some or all of these characteristics.
Materials Spectra
Metals Spectra
Historic/Archeological Spectra
Reference Materials Spectra
Household Objects Spectra
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Resources
Videos
Articles
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Non-XRF Techniques
Gamma Spectroscopy
Raman Spectroscopy
FTIR - Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy
Atomic Emission Spectroscopy
Inductively Coupled Atomic Emission Spectroscopy
Spark Emission Spectroscopy
Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy
LIBS - Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy
Photoacoustic Spectroscopy
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Re: Xrf old faucet
" Another thing? The plastic mount is a tape?reel with a?hole in the center Perfect of samples to be placed on top " Good idea. Positioning is critical. Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:35:16 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Xrf old faucet
Another thing? The plastic mount is a tape?reel with a?hole in the center Perfect of samples to be placed on top The pic of the tap is without the reel It is just an object to help me take a pic shot In case anyone is wondering.. Taray On Friday, November 13, 2020, 12:25 AM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Xrf old faucet
taray singh
Another thing?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The plastic mount is a tape?reel with a?hole in the center Perfect of samples to be placed on top The pic of the tap is without the reel It is just an object to help me take a pic shot In case anyone is wondering.. Taray On Friday, November 13, 2020, 12:25 AM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Xrf old faucet
Thanks for the interesting report. Also on the old forum a member took scraping from white deposits left in the burner of his cooking stove, In the outside environment I take samples from cracks and crevices of rain drain grates, very good at collecting and concentrating heavy particles, too small to see. Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:17:48 AM Subject: [XRF] Xrf old faucet Hi guys I have done this before in the old forum This time with better results? My faucet spout has a??silvery shiny surface with some mottling.Blocked by water deposits due water stagnation. But I have a confession to make The faucet was??mounted on white rounded plaster holder at the base Not in the path of the primary beam The results show various elements? Ni,Cu,Zn??,Pb and perhaps Fe Ni is the??shiny outer coating? Zinc is the faucet spout Cu is coming from brass??within (Cu and Zn) Pb from solder? Fe if present from plates/escutcheon ? Zn causing corrosion and??heavy deposits This cheap Chinese Zn faucet is a bad choice? Deposits are contributing too That will be another topic ? |
Xrf old faucet
taray singh
Hi guys I have done this before in the old forum This time with better results? My faucet spout has a??silvery shiny surface with some mottling.Blocked by water deposits due water stagnation. But I have a confession to make The faucet was??mounted on white rounded plaster holder at the base Not in the path of the primary beam The results show various elements? Ni,Cu,Zn??,Pb and perhaps Fe Ni is the??shiny outer coating? Zinc is the faucet spout Cu is coming from brass??within (Cu and Zn) Pb from solder? Fe if present from plates/escutcheon ? Zn causing corrosion and??heavy deposits This cheap Chinese Zn faucet is a bad choice? Deposits are contributing too That will be another topic ? |
Re: Uranium Ore , Depleted Uranium, Natural Uranium (Unat) Compared
UO2- High Energy "Gamma Spectrum Analysis" (no exciter, looking at natural radioactivity of U-238 and now U-235 decay). ![]()
CdTe_CE-DU_High-Energy-Gamma-Scan-3NOV2020--_ROIs_NOTES-24Hr-_C_PUB.png
CdTe_CE-DU_High-Energy-Gamma-Scan-3NOV2020--_ROIs-24Hr.mca
CdTe_CE-DU_High-Energy-Gamma-Scan-3NOV2020--_ROIs-24Hr.mca
![]()
U-238_Decay_and_Progeny_X-Rays.png
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Re: Uranium Ore , Depleted Uranium, Natural Uranium (Unat) Compared
UO2- Low Energy "Gamma Spectrum Analysis" (no exciter, looking at natural radioactivity of U-238 decay).
Picture is self explanatory, as always comments, correction, questions and discussion welcomed. Notice how particles are responsible for decay, while the resulting new element's nucleus and electron shells are responsible for the electromagnetic ray signature. .mca attached. Geo ![]()
DU-CE-38Hr-2-BAK.png
Si-PIN-CE-DU-No-Al-Filter-U-L_X-Ray_Pa-Th-Pa-La-Lb-Lg_25.6us-8NOV2020_40Hr.mca
Si-PIN-CE-DU-No-Al-Filter-U-L_X-Ray_Pa-Th-Pa-La-Lb-Lg_25.6us-8NOV2020_40Hr.mca
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Re: Uranium Ore , Depleted Uranium, Natural Uranium (Unat) Compared
UO2- Intro
Uranium Dioxide is a man made chemical which has been used for centuries for numerous purposes. In modern times it is made quite pure, that is the uranium atoms have been removed from uranium ore with very little or no carry-over of the uranium decay chain lower daughters or other chemical elements in the rock matrix. In this context "modern times" also predates the discovery of radioactivity, as chemically separating uranium is not unlike other chemical processes, and was formally recognized in the 1700's as an element. In post WW2 times, the feedstock of uranium for this chemical separation has moved almost exclusively to the depleted uranium (DU) byproduct of the Manhattan Engineer District et.al. since as of 2000, there were 500,000 metric tonnes of DU in storage in USA alone: ?https://web.evs.anl.gov/uranium/pdf/duwm01genlpaper07100r3.pdf So pretty much by the late 1900's only prewar natural uranium (Unat) and recently made DU uranium in the form of UO2 or UO3 has been widely distributed in the civilian market. Before we go in to the first sample analysis we should all be aware the term Depleted does not mean devoid of U-235. Technically, ANY deviation from the natural?0.711weight-% (equal to0.72atom-%)?U-235?abundance is either called Depleted or Enriched. The sample will be first studied by Gamma Spectrum analysis using two high resolution solid state probes, the first is a Si-PIN based Amptek device with a beryllium window for low energy precision. The second is a Cadmium Telluride (CdTe) based probe, visually very similar to the first but having superior higher energy response due to the high-Z materials used in its construction. Resolution and other desirable factors are less in the CdTe than in the Si-PIN so this probe basically gives us fill-in-the-blanks information and direct access to the U-235 185keV Gamma Ray. High quality NaI(Tl) scintillators will provide a view of certain Gamma Rays above our 400keV solid-state detector limitations. Geo |
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
开云体育
Eu is enriched in the Petaca district rare minerals, but it is still pretty low. Most of the minerals have an average Eu2O3 of around 0.2%, as shown by microprobe analyses. Surprisingly, columbite has some of the highest concentrations of as much as 0.45%.
So your detection limit had better be pretty good.
Steve
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dude <dfemer@...>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 2:50 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ?
We’re talking about ppm concentrations not pure 100% Eu2O3 try that in a rock matrix Dud ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@... ?
Even the pro model XRF guns and cabinet machines go right for the Eu L lines:
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Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
开云体育Dave, Geo had one left last I checked and he’s about the cheapest I’ve seen…I mean he’s not cheap? its cheap, well? you know what I mean. Dud ? From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Eckhardt
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 5:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ? Dud: ? I suspected as such, but had to ask.? Thank you! ? Any other affordable high-resolution XRF detectors?? RAP-47 is my best at present.? Suggestions???? ? Dave - W?LEV ? On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:44 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
Dave - W?LEV Just Let Darwin Work ? |
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Dud: I suspected as such, but had to ask.? Thank you! Any other affordable high-resolution XRF detectors?? RAP-47 is my best at present.? Suggestions???? Dave - W?LEV On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:44 PM Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
-- Dave - W?LEV Just Let Darwin Work |
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
开云体育We’re talking about ppm concentrations not pure 100% Eu2O3 try that in a rock matrix Dud ? From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@...
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 2:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ? Even the pro model XRF guns and cabinet machines go right
for the Eu L lines: |
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
开云体育Dave, I doubt it. Using a 50Kv x-ray tube the binding energy of Eu is 48.5 KeV so it’ going to get a poor activation and because it’s a very low impurity concentration it will be hard to see in the tube’s Compton. Sm is about the cut off for a 50 kV tube. I can see it but it has to be nearing % level concentration.? For an Am-241 59.5 keV source it’s theoretically possible but again due to the low concentration and weak source it going to be a really long count and a long shot. The Eu La is weaker yet and has lots of interferences in the 5.8 keV range. But ya never know, test everything as someone once said. Dud From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Eckhardt
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 10:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ? Subject:? Natural occurring Fluorite Activator to Fl:? Europium Question 1:? Is the amateur XRF setup capable of determining the presence / absence of Europium in fluorite? Question 2:? If so, can the amateur XRF setup determine quantitatively (within reason) whether the amount of Eu determines the level of Fl of any given specimen? ? Just curious - what other excuse could I offer as not all fluorite fluoresces.? ? Dave - W?LEV ? On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 9:07 PM Ken Sejkora <kjsejkora@...> wrote:
Dave - W?LEV Just Let Darwin Work ? |
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
开云体育Geo, Pb and sulfur form part of the vulcanization process to give flexibility and strength to the rubber. In plastics it softens it and makes it flexible yet still retains its shape. Dud ? From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of taray singh via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 9:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis ? Geo ? My biggest Pb surprise was black rubber automobile and garden hose. No idea why it's there but unmistakable....
Remember telling me about rubber automobile before. Couldn’t figure out where to find one really.. Interesting.., Do you mean a new ?or used one.? Perhaps it has something to do with vulcanization of rubber? Meanwhile will check out my garden hose Taray
On Monday, November 9, 2020, 10:49 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
开云体育Taray, We have been using thin zip lock bags for our quick and dirty soils measurements. There is a very slight reduction in the real low energies but it doesn’t affect the readings. Dud From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of taray singh via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis ? Charles Next time if I am forced to use a plastic container for my XRF,I gonna opt for clear plastic ones Taray
On Monday, November 9, 2020, 9:24 PM, Charles David Young <charlesdavidyoung@...> wrote:
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
开云体育Good scientific procedures and results Taray – well done Dud ? From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of taray singh via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 5:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis ? Hi guys |
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
开云体育Geo, Pretty much the same thing but with a twist. It occurs with the valance band outer most electrons in atoms, molecules and crystals. In this case it’s a crystal center with an activator element of low concentration. The energy required to get an excited state in the visible 400 to 680 nm range ?is 1.8 to 3.1 eV. That can be by photons, protons and electrons just like XRF but the energy levels are much lower and act on the outer shells. The twist is the crystal center needs an activator element defect to get the energy transfer for fluorescence rather than heating. The emission wavelength can be dependent on the excitation wavelength. Dud ? ? From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@...
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 8:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ? Dud, are all these wavelength shifts happening for the same
reason as XRF but at longer wavelengths and instead of inner orbitals, use the
outer orbitals, or is it a crystal thing (or both). Either way it is an
electron thing correct? |
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
" Remember telling me about rubber automobile before. Couldn’t figure out where to find one really.." Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 10:01:16 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo My biggest Pb surprise was black rubber automobile and garden hose. No idea why it's there but unmistakable.... Remember telling me about rubber automobile before. Couldn’t figure out where to find one really.. Interesting.., Do you mean a new ?or used one.? Perhaps it has something to do with vulcanization of rubber? Meanwhile will check out my garden hose Taray On Monday, November 9, 2020, 10:49 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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