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X-air H and 912uls

 

Any word on that 912 engine mount, Michael?
 

Thank you very much for all your answers. If someone have pictures of the engine mount, will be great.
 

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Hi all,
If I may add my 5 cents worth.?
Have you considered a Rotax 618 …
It’s got the horsepower and it’s an engine that was an option for the Xair standard without the requirement of redesign.?
They are still out there and spares are available.?
Fair weather to all.?
Regards,

Nils

On 15 May 2024, at 17:32, Jonathan Webb <avia1or01@...> wrote:

? Ive not seen an X air standard with a 912 but I have a n Xair F with the 912, in fact mines was the development prototype in the UK.

The 912 does not give any performance advantage over a 2 stroke but you get a lot less gliding practice.

The modifications to the normal x air f to fit the 912 were:-

special engine mount where the engine sits further back than a 2 stroke. The oil reservoir is not in the wing but at the back of the engine
The front engine struts are the standard part but cut shorter.
Lightweight floor
Lightweight air suspension
Lightweight digital instruments
Lightweight wheels
The battery is shoved as far back in the tail as possible.


Rather than modify an xair standard, it would be far easier to modify an Xair F. There are plenty around with poor engines going cheap.

regards,

Jonathan

Jonathan Webb
On 15/05/2024 07:35, anavallemat via groups.io wrote:
Thank you all for your information, we did the calculation and it can work. If it was already developed, we can buy it because 2T it is not an option anymore. It is an engine of the past, but X-air it is still an aircraft for the present. Of course it is needed to update, one of it the engine.
For sure not better performance because aerodinamic it is like it is, but consume and engine reliability.
We saw some pictures about, but if i understand right, it was never in production, right?
Other question, Randkar from france is it not working anymore?, also most of dealers of Xair disapear. Also in uk, Irland or India??
Thank you all for your quick response

 

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Ive not seen an X air standard with a 912 but I have a n Xair F with the 912, in fact mines was the development prototype in the UK.

The 912 does not give any performance advantage over a 2 stroke but you get a lot less gliding practice.

The modifications to the normal x air f to fit the 912 were:-

special engine mount where the engine sits further back than a 2 stroke. The oil reservoir is not in the wing but at the back of the engine
The front engine struts are the standard part but cut shorter.
Lightweight floor
Lightweight air suspension
Lightweight digital instruments
Lightweight wheels
The battery is shoved as far back in the tail as possible.


Rather than modify an xair standard, it would be far easier to modify an Xair F. There are plenty around with poor engines going cheap.

regards,

Jonathan

Jonathan Webb
On 15/05/2024 07:35, anavallemat via groups.io wrote:

Thank you all for your information, we did the calculation and it can work. If it was already developed, we can buy it because 2T it is not an option anymore. It is an engine of the past, but X-air it is still an aircraft for the present. Of course it is needed to update, one of it the engine.
For sure not better performance because aerodinamic it is like it is, but consume and engine reliability.
We saw some pictures about, but if i understand right, it was never in production, right?
Other question, Randkar from france is it not working anymore?, also most of dealers of Xair disapear. Also in uk, Irland or India??
Thank you all for your quick response

 

Thank you all for your information, we did the calculation and it can work. If it was already developed, we can buy it because 2T it is not an option anymore. It is an engine of the past, but X-air it is still an aircraft for the present. Of course it is needed to update, one of it the engine.
For sure not better performance because aerodinamic it is like it is, but consume and engine reliability.
We saw some pictures about, but if i understand right, it was never in production, right?
Other question, Randkar from france is it not working anymore?, also most of dealers of Xair disapear. Also in uk, Irland or India??
Thank you all for your quick response
 

Thanks Michael, some really good info to work with. The problem is that there isn't any real decent alternatives to keep them flying. They are fairly high drag/low speed which is where the issues start with aircooled configurations. I'm just not ready to give up on the little kite just yet, absolutely loved flying it and did a number of trips around 650km in a day.

The Dalby guys are good LAME's so will keep working at it when I get the time and see where it goes.

Thanks again for your info.

Cheers
Greg

On Wed, 15 May 2024, 8:45?am Michael Coates via , <mcoates=[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Greg and others. I didn't see a lot of standard model X-Air's in France fitted with the 912 which we used to tow huge advertising banners along the French coastline. These worked really well with the 912 because the banner created so much drag it balanced the aircraft. The 912? is definitely heavier than the Jabiru by the time you add all of the extras like the exhaust system, the oil tank etc. the 912 versions in France basically had the very rear of the engine touching the leading edge of the wing, they sat back a real long way and if they weren't towing a banner they required a lot of back stick just to fly straight and level this is why I just wouldn't recommend the 912. Added to this is the fact that you need to store the oil reservoir inside the wing above the cockpit and this comes with its own problems when it comes time to change the oil etc...?? you will need to cut a hole in the wing nappy because the oil tank is too large to fit through the wing without opening the top. Also, the oil tank needs to sit above the main fuselage tube because most of them there is not enough room between the large wing ribs at the end of each wing and the fuselage tube to fit the oil tank.....



Greg Griffiths wrote on 15/05/2024 8:31 am:
Hi, if you are meaning the original xair std that mostly had the 2 stroke engines on them thenI have tried to find the mount you are referring to (shown in the xair std manual as option) however no luck. I did ask Michael a good while ago and was informed they were never put into production. I also chased up Seamus in Ireland, wealth of knowledge but a difficult guy to contact at times, guess like us all very little spare time.

I don't agree with the too heavy statement, they are similar in weight to a Jabiru 2200 which I have on mine from first flight,? it balanced well in the middle range for the weight and balance calculations and flies very nicely. I have flown it for some quite long distances and it performs and handles very well and never any real trim needed.

However the Jabiru suffers with temp issues and after many years and 300hrs of flying trying different duct shapes came to the conclusion that the airspeed for the cruise rpm is just not sufficient.

I have been working with my local LAME and they are confident that they can modify a 912 rear mount onto the Jabiru mount.

The original Jabiru mount was supplied by Jabiru in Bunderburg.

At the moment I don't have much more I can give you as I haven't started on the mod, hopefully this is the year to get it done.

Cheers
Greg


On Wed, 15 May 2024, 8:01?am Michael Coates via , <mcoates=[email protected]> wrote:
Hello, your messages a bit confusing because in the subject you are referring to the Hanuman model but in the text body you are referring to the X-Air standard ?

The 912 is really too heavy for the standard model, requires a lot of modifications and really doesn't fly any good with such a heavy engine. You are much better off only using the 912 in the Hanuman model.




anavallemat@... wrote on 14/05/2024 10:28 pm:
i?m looking for the enginemount 912 80cv for X-air standard, anyone know how to find it? Thank you in advance 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


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-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
 
Edited

Hello Greg and others. I did see a lot of standard model X-Air's in France fitted with the 912 which we used to tow huge advertising banners along the French coastline.

These worked really well with the 912 because the banner created so much drag it balanced the aircraft.

The 912? is definitely heavier than the Jabiru by the time you add all of the extras like the exhaust system, the oil tank etc. the 912 versions in France basically had the very rear of the engine touching the leading edge of the wing, they sat back a real long way and if they weren't towing a banner they required a lot of back stick just to fly straight and level; this is why I just wouldn't recommend the 912. Added to this is the fact that you need to store the oil reservoir inside the wing above the cockpit and this comes with its own problems when it comes time to change the oil etc...?? you will need to cut a hole in the wing nappy because the oil tank is too large to fit through the wing without opening the top. Also, the oil tank needs to sit above the main fuselage tube because there is not enough room between the large wing ribs at the end of each wing and the fuselage tube to fit the oil tank beside the main fuselage tube.



Greg Griffiths wrote on 15/05/2024 8:31 am:
Hi, if you are meaning the original xair std that mostly had the 2 stroke engines on them thenI have tried to find the mount you are referring to (shown in the xair std manual as option) however no luck. I did ask Michael a good while ago and was informed they were never put into production. I also chased up Seamus in Ireland, wealth of knowledge but a difficult guy to contact at times, guess like us all very little spare time.
?
I don't agree with the too heavy statement, they are similar in weight to a Jabiru 2200 which I have on mine from first flight,? it balanced well in the middle range for the weight and balance calculations and flies very nicely. I have flown it for some quite long distances and it performs and handles very well and never any real trim needed.
?
However the Jabiru suffers with temp issues and after many years and 300hrs of flying trying different duct shapes came to the conclusion that the airspeed for the cruise rpm is just not sufficient.
?
I have been working with my local LAME and they are confident that they can modify a 912 rear mount onto the Jabiru mount.
?
The original Jabiru mount was supplied by Jabiru in Bunderburg.
?
At the moment I don't have much more I can give you as I haven't started on the mod, hopefully this is the year to get it done.
?
Cheers
Greg
?

On Wed, 15 May 2024, 8:01?am Michael Coates via , <mcoates=[email protected]> wrote:
Hello, your messages a bit confusing because in the subject you are referring to the Hanuman model but in the text body you are referring to the X-Air standard ?

The 912 is really too heavy for the standard model, requires a lot of modifications and really doesn't fly any good with such a heavy engine. You are much better off only using the 912 in the Hanuman model.




anavallemat@... wrote on 14/05/2024 10:28 pm:
i?m looking for the enginemount 912 80cv for X-air standard, anyone know how to find it? Thank you in advance

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
 

Hi, if you are meaning the original xair std that mostly had the 2 stroke engines on them thenI have tried to find the mount you are referring to (shown in the xair std manual as option) however no luck. I did ask Michael a good while ago and was informed they were never put into production. I also chased up Seamus in Ireland, wealth of knowledge but a difficult guy to contact at times, guess like us all very little spare time.

I don't agree with the too heavy statement, they are similar in weight to a Jabiru 2200 which I have on mine from first flight,? it balanced well in the middle range for the weight and balance calculations and flies very nicely. I have flown it for some quite long distances and it performs and handles very well and never any real trim needed.

However the Jabiru suffers with temp issues and after many years and 300hrs of flying trying different duct shapes came to the conclusion that the airspeed for the cruise rpm is just not sufficient.

I have been working with my local LAME and they are confident that they can modify a 912 rear mount onto the Jabiru mount.

The original Jabiru mount was supplied by Jabiru in Bunderburg.

At the moment I don't have much more I can give you as I haven't started on the mod, hopefully this is the year to get it done.

Cheers
Greg


On Wed, 15 May 2024, 8:01?am Michael Coates via , <mcoates=[email protected]> wrote:
Hello, your messages a bit confusing because in the subject you are referring to the Hanuman model but in the text body you are referring to the X-Air standard ?

The 912 is really too heavy for the standard model, requires a lot of modifications and really doesn't fly any good with such a heavy engine. You are much better off only using the 912 in the Hanuman model.




anavallemat@... wrote on 14/05/2024 10:28 pm:
i?m looking for the enginemount 912 80cv for X-air standard, anyone know how to find it? Thank you in advance 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
 

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Hello, your messages a bit confusing because in the subject you are referring to the Hanuman model but in the text body you are referring to the X-Air standard ?

The 912 is really too heavy for the standard model, requires a lot of modifications and really doesn't fly any good with such a heavy engine. You are much better off only using the 912 in the Hanuman model.




anavallemat@... wrote on 14/05/2024 10:28 pm:
i?m looking for the enginemount 912 80cv for X-air standard, anyone know how to find it? Thank you in advance 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
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i?m looking for the enginemount 912 80cv for X-air standard, anyone know how to find it? Thank you in advance
 

Thank you. I'd also like to get a new windscreen, if possible.
 

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Thank you I am still waiting on a reply from the manufacturer

kymidnight@... wrote on 10/03/2024 2:40 am:
I sent a DM, but the SN is 1115 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
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No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
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I sent a DM, but the SN is 1115
 

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Hello Clive, there are a few out there I think in Goolwa,? everybody is just out there flying and I don't get much contact with them anymore unless they need parts. Hopefully they are on the group and can answer back

Clive Cunningham wrote on 6/03/2024 10:46 am:
Michael, I have just bought a Hanuman from Ian Hampel to go with my X Air standard. Are there any others in SA that you know of?

Clive Cunningham

K&M HD Motorcycles

U2 5-9 Kingston Ave?

Richmond?

South Australia 5033??

Ph +61 8? 8234 1090?

kmmotor@...

kmmotorcycles.com.au




From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2024 8:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [XAIR] X-air H and 912uls
?
it is pretty easy to order but firstly we need to know the serial number of the aircraft

kymidnight@... wrote on 6/03/2024 12:05 am:
Any idea where one could obtain a 912 motor mount? I currently have a jab 2200, and have been seriously considering replacing it. 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
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Michael, I have just bought a Hanuman from Ian Hampel to go with my X Air standard. Are there any others in SA that you know of?

Clive Cunningham

K&M HD Motorcycles

U2 5-9 Kingston Ave?

Richmond?

South Australia 5033??

Ph +61 8? 8234 1090?

kmmotor@...

kmmotorcycles.com.au




From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2024 8:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [XAIR] X-air H and 912uls
?
it is pretty easy to order but firstly we need to know the serial number of the aircraft

kymidnight@... wrote on 6/03/2024 12:05 am:
Any idea where one could obtain a 912 motor mount? I currently have a jab 2200, and have been seriously considering replacing it. 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
 

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it is pretty easy to order but firstly we need to know the serial number of the aircraft

kymidnight@... wrote on 6/03/2024 12:05 am:
Any idea where one could obtain a 912 motor mount? I currently have a jab 2200, and have been seriously considering replacing it. 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
 

Any idea where one could obtain a 912 motor mount? I currently have a jab 2200, and have been seriously considering replacing it.
 

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There have been 100 hp engines fitted, no problems but they climb like crazy!

kymidnight@... wrote on 5/03/2024 3:02 pm:
Has anyone tried putting a 912uls (100hp) rotax on a hanuman? I've got the possibility of acquiring a nice one, but I didn't know if anyone had used the 100hp 912 or only the 80hp. 

-- 
With regards,    Michael Coates

AU +61 7 5522 0583


PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017

mailto:mcoates@...


Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. 
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.  Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.

Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
 

Has anyone tried putting a 912uls (100hp) rotax on a hanuman? I've got the possibility of acquiring a nice one, but I didn't know if anyone had used the 100hp 912 or only the 80hp.

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