Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
ok perfect - so my current 3-4.5 psi set up works - great to know.
I'll just replace the current pump with the exact make and model, or if there are stock shortages near my location, ill find something with a max of 4.5psi
like this:?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022 10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.????
this will be in the requirements from the engine manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this?
ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as possible???
He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.?????
a quick Google search led me to the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?????
because of the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most people do not use this filter and instead install a proper filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles
trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2 psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at the link
below and I would not use anything but the engine manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Justin Gregoris wrote on 19/04/2022
10:00 am:
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour)
or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.???? this will be in the requirements from the engine
manufacturer, it will stipulate a minimum and a maximum psi for
the fuel supply so this is nothing to do with the aircraft but
is unique to individual engines
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the
fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because
the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with
a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this? ignorance or trying to keep costs as low as
possible??? He built the airplane pretty well with
upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more
connections means greater potential for leaks?????
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105.
The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max
PSI.????? a quick Google search led me to
the Jabiru manufacturers website where it states the maximum
pressure should be 3 psi please this is just a Google search
please look at the manufacturers manual and specifications for
their product
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump,
just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even
install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why
did he not do this as well????? because of
the well-known problems with clogging of this filter. Most
people do not use this filter and instead install a proper
filter upstream
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter,
which is great, but because of my paranoia with the
fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is
currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine
particles trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane
currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and
GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my
Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
It is pretty simple I just went to the
Jabiru website and downloaded the installation? manual for the 4
cylinder and 6 cylinder engines and they are saying minimum 2
psi and maximum 5 psi. This comes directly from the manual at
the link below and I would not use anything but the engine
manufacturers specifications
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August
Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
The jabiru 2200 uses a bing 54 carb. The nominal pressure for them is 1-4 psi. They need to be fed, but anything over 4 psi can cause the carb to flood.
he probably didn’t install the facet filter because they aren’t serviceable and was relying on the main filter.
The bypass isn’t always a well known thing and more of a work around to avoid failure. Theoretically the facet pump should allow flow through. Just sucks to find out that one time it won’t or that it’s causing a bit to much restriction when it’s not running.
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Hello again Gents,
I cannot find any information regarding the GPH (gallons per hour) or PSI min. & max. for our electric fuel pumps.
After a frustrating 20 minutes, I was able to remove the fiberglass belly pan of the X Air H. I am glad I did this because the previous owner didnt install the bypass fuel line section with a 1-way check valve! Why do you think he did not do this? He built the airplane pretty well with upgraded wiring and other parts, but maybe because he felt more connections means greater potential for leaks?
Moreover, I notice I have a Facet Cube fuel pump - model # 40105. The specs on the Cube 40105 are: 30GPH, 3.0 min PSI and 4.5 max PSI.
Is this correct? I feel like I should replace the electric pump, just in case. Here is my reasoning: the previous owner didnt even install the supplied Facet fuel filter into the Facet Cube! Why did he not do this as well?
After the fuel tank, I do have a Dorman 55240 glass fuel filter, which is great, but because of my paranoia with the fiberglass/resin and organic particles in my 100LL fuel that is currently in the tank, I wont be surprised if there are some fine particles trapped within my Facet Cube - engine & plane currently at 160hours.?
I cant seem to find any info regarding how much min. and max. and GPH my 22A2895 Jabiru 2200 (160hrs) calls for, in the event my Jabiru mechanical fuel pump fails.
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Many thanks gentlemen!
Your responses are valued.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
See your PM
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:43:51 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll? dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this pump, in the event it may fail.
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
See your PM ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> Til: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:43:51 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll? dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this pump, in the event it may fail.
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Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
This is what it should look like (generically)
Justin Gregoris wrote on 18/04/2022
7:43 am:
Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll?
dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump
filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this
pump, in the event it may fail.
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
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sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
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Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
the large gold part at the bottom of this picture is the filter. If
you break them open there is a wire mesh filter in their but they
are not serviceable, the only way to try and service them is to
flush them backwards but I have had mixed results. The fibreglass of
the X-Air fuel tank will clog these in record time so you are best
to discard this filter and use a serviceable filter which is clear
like in the 2nd photograph.....?? you can get these in quarter-inch,
5/16 and 3/8 nipple size and it is important to get the correct one
for your fuel hose because a loose one is not a good fit
Mine has a bypass made with a one-way check valve that t's
around the pump. It has a small silver filter before the pump
and another filer between the tank and the filter pump. I'm not
aware of any internal filter and it's not been a problems as of
yet for me.
Tom
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Anyone have a diagram of what setup I should have ? I'll? dismantle the floor tomorrow and remove and replace the facet pump filter but then also try and plumb? fuel lines to bypass this pump, in the event it may fail.
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Yes.? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 17, 2022, at 7:49 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I'm assuming I can unscrew the fasteners from the bottom of the aircraft and drop the floor to access all of the fuel lines and pump?
Mine has a bypass made with a one-way check valve that t's around the pump. It has a small silver filter before the pump and another filer between the tank and the filter pump. I'm not aware of any internal filter and it's not been a problems as of yet for
me.
Tom
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
I'm assuming I can unscrew the fasteners from the bottom of the aircraft and drop the floor to access all of the fuel lines and pump?
Mine has a bypass made with a one-way check valve that t's around the pump. It has a small silver filter before the pump and another filer between the tank and the filter pump. I'm not aware of any internal filter and it's not been a problems as of yet for
me.
Tom
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Mine has a bypass made with a one-way check valve that t's around the pump. It has a small silver filter before the pump and another filer between the tank and the filter pump. I'm not aware of any internal filter and it's not been a problems as of yet for me.
Tom
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Ok so most X Air Hanuman's come with that fuel pump - and those fuel pumps also have a filter built inside them?
Is there a way to dismantle these fuel pumps to clean the built-in filter?
Justin
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Show quoted text
A facet pump will not have any problems running dry until it primes. The inbuilt fuel filter is a problem because it can clog and you can't see anything because it is fully closed so extra care must be taken. You need to have a one-way bypass valve fitted
and if you need more information just let me know. Also note: they come in different pressure outputs so you must make sure you get the correct one, I have seen somebody install a 10 psi unit and it simply vent fuel out of the carburettor when the engine is
not running because the fuel pressure is so high
Justin Gregoris wrote on 16/04/2022 10:53 pm:
Thanks?for providing a link!
So, if my fuel lines have no fuel and I turn this pump on, will damage occur before any fuel lubricates the pump, or should i turn the engine over by hand or try starting it with choke on - without using the electric fuel pump?
I'd like to prime all fuel lines without damaging anything.
My electric fuel pump is on the firewall. It's an automotive type like this one.
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
A facet pump will not have any problems running dry until it primes.
The inbuilt fuel filter is a problem because it can clog and you
can't see anything because it is fully closed so extra care must be
taken. You need to have a one-way bypass valve fitted and if you
need more information just let me know. Also note: they come in
different pressure outputs so you must make sure you get the correct
one, I have seen somebody install a 10 psi unit and it simply vent
fuel out of the carburettor when the engine is not running because
the fuel pressure is so high
Justin Gregoris wrote on 16/04/2022
10:53 pm:
Thanks?for providing a link!
So, if my fuel lines have no fuel and I turn this pump on, will
damage occur before any fuel lubricates the pump, or should i
turn the engine over by hand or try starting it with choke on -
without using the electric fuel pump?
I'd like to prime all fuel lines without damaging anything.
My electric fuel pump is on the firewall. It's an automotive
type like this one.
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Basically, the material is a lamination on top of Dacron. It came
out with all the fanfare of being the new one the material but
unfortunately in areas of very high UV (think Australia) the bonding
material deteriorated in the plastic can get peeled off like you are
shelling an egg. Underneath is normal Dacron so the plane is still
very usable, the problem is if this starts to tear off during flight
it can lift off in really large areas.
I would use some sort of signwriting vinyl to make a big patch to go
over the top of it to try and stop it from peeling and try and
preserve the covering for as long as possible before you need to
replace the fabric
mcressman via groups.io wrote on
16/04/2022 9:04 pm:
I have an 09 X-Air LS (USA S-LSA).? I have notice 2 spots where
the clear film on the OPAC covering is peeling.? After a long
search, I have not been able to locate anyone using OPAC material
to make sails.? Being this is a factory built S-LSA, are there
other options?? Is it possible to patch the spots to slow the
spread?? Any help is appreciated.
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August
Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
Thanks?for providing a link!
So, if my fuel lines have no fuel and I turn this pump on, will damage occur before any fuel lubricates the pump, or should i turn the engine over by hand or try starting it with choke on - without using the electric fuel pump?
I'd like to prime all fuel lines without damaging anything.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My electric fuel pump is on the firewall. It's an automotive type like this one.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=82&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=FAC-40104&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu16nYoajG3iH-QHypEbUsLiKnsYV_l8iP6iAmbfj-O7I8MYuZIQYLocaAv0qEALw_wcB
|
I would remove the peeling covering very carefully if you are able to and then apply Gorilla Clear Vinyl Repair Tape. It may sound at first as a? 'Mickey Mouse' fix/repair, but you will be surprised how strong Gorilla Tape is and its superior adhesion and UV/weather
resistant capabilities it has.?
When I purchased my 2008 X Air, it had some fairly aggressive hangar rash at the top of the vertical; stabilizer - the previous owner had the X Air on amphibious floats and only has a couple inches of clearance while moving the plane in and out of the hangar.
My profilam covering ripped and after trying a couple options, I decided?to resort to Gorilla Tape.?
You can barely notice the repair and it currently shows no signs of being compromised - highly recommend.??
Visit link:?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have an 09 X-Air LS (USA S-LSA).? I have notice 2 spots where the clear film on the OPAC covering is peeling.? After a long search, I have not been able to locate anyone using OPAC material to make sails.? Being this is a factory built S-LSA, are there
other options?? Is it possible to patch the spots to slow the spread?? Any help is appreciated.
|
I have an 09 X-Air LS (USA S-LSA).? I have notice 2 spots where the clear film on the OPAC covering is peeling.? After a long search, I have not been able to locate anyone using OPAC material to make sails.? Being this is a factory built S-LSA, are there other options?? Is it possible to patch the spots to slow the spread?? Any help is appreciated.
|
Re: X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
You put a lot of effort in your response - I appreciate it!
Agreed, it is nothing to do with the engine it is to do with fibreglass, vinyl ester resins, epoxy resins and their weaknesses to current aviation and/or car fuels.
This issue is simply, fuels or additives in fuels leach into the resins and dissolve them therefore leaving exposed fibres from the fibreglass which eventually get broken off from the fuel sloshing around and then they end up in the fuel lines and the fuel
filters eventually causing fuel supply issues, engine stoppages etc.
It is only the bottom end of aviation that uses fibreglass fuel tanks, every other industry knows their weaknesses and has moved on to other products. Most cars 25 years ago used steal for their fuel tanks but almost unanimously they have all now change to
polyethylene because it does not rust, it is much superior in an accident and it does not get affected by the fuels we are currently using.
The problem in the aviation industry is fibreglass is easy to manufacture and fairly cheap, you can make round shapes very easily like the corners of the fuel tank, it does not rust and most importantly for us, it is lightweight, the downside is it is not durable
when it comes to different fuels.
Polyethylene is used for aviation fuel tanks in some aircraft but it is about 10 times the weight.....??
There are a number of "sloshing compounds" that can be used which you mix up and pour into a fibreglass fuel tank and then turn it around in all directions so that the surfaces are coated and when it dries it provides a barrier between the fuel and the fibreglass.
The problem with these is that they are not always successful in bonding with the fibreglass material even when you use the proper primer and it is because the inside of the fuel tank is nice and smooth because this is the inside of the mould when it is made
and the material doesn't stick so well....
Something else which is worth looking at is a fuel bladder but these are also heavy and are quite expensive....
The current alternative seems to be, remove the fuel tanks once every 12 months, throw a chain inside and move it around breaking off all the fibres and put the fuel tank back into service.? Clean fuel system regularly, use a good quality fuel filter that can
capture the fibres and the problems are solved, or mitigated at least.
Bernhard Svavarsson wrote on 16/04/2022 8:54 am:
This issue has nothing to do with different type of engines
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Brian Ellis via groups.io <bellis2uk@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:52:50 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] X Air Hawk fuel tank 'shedding' particles into fuel
Thanks
Just reading that I am glad we chose a Rotax
On 15 Apr 2022, at 14:02, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?fuel tank sealant colours- see Jabiru website: "JSL007-7" service bulletin for all who are interested. lots of great information there,
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Mechanical and electric fuel pumps on my X Air
My electric fuel pump is on the firewall. It's an automotive type like this one.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=82&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=FAC-40104&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu16nYoajG3iH-QHypEbUsLiKnsYV_l8iP6iAmbfj-O7I8MYuZIQYLocaAv0qEALw_wcB
|
Tom Yoder
Geoffrey Gartshore
Mike Cressman