Re: X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth
Hi Buy the original bungee from factory or dealer.I bought mine from Randkar the main dealer of xair aircraft in Eirope. I use strap between wheels to pull the wheels together - thigten the strap by lifting one wheel at time. This procedure is two mens job. ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> Til: [email protected]Sent: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 14:45:08 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth many thanks. I will look for 10mm total diameter bungee cords at about 5 feet long - giving a total of 4 pieces at 5 feet long each and 10mm diameter chord. Justin ________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Steve Rance via groups.io <steve-r@...> Sent: November 20, 2021 9:36 AM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth Yes weight has to be off wheels otherwise you cannot get enough stretch to do the the turns, you have to have a half turn so you end up with loop each end, I was referring to 4.5 half turns, I may be wrong each turn elastic is stretched to almost max so a helper would be good. Another problem is tracking. If you have toe out, by pulling aircraft straight on surface watch if wheels start to splay out. May be a sigh of bent axles. I have seen several examples. Sides of wheel should be at right angles to ground. Tracking can also be checked using two long beams and tape measure. On 20 Nov 2021 12:38, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote: Many thanks Steve! My recently purchased X Air Hanuman/Hawk is 2009; going on 13yrs old. It is red exterior but with only 146hrs on airframe and Jabiru 2200. The Dacron still looks good, I'm no expert but looks like a solid 8.5/10. Always stored inside hangar and still is. When I google "Dacron", I don't get much Info with regards to specifics. I lost a piece of paper from the original owner, with make and model of exact covering but I thought it said not to exceed 1000hrs of direct UV exposure.if I do the math, plus 5-10%, I have about 400/1000 UV direct UV exposure. I heard about spraying some kind of exterior household paint, but I think I'd need a spray gun with a fine tip/nozzle to prevent dripping and have to calculate how much more weight I am adding to the plane. If I had to make.my own colour choice, it would be matte grey or matte green, almost like an aggressive military look on a somewhat 'cute' looking plane. There are currently some areas on my Hanuman whereby the covering looks like it should have been stretched tighter, to give it a better look. Based off the year of my covering, it is viable to try and apply a heat gun to the covering, in efforts to create a tighter look and feel? If so, how exactly do I tighten this covering? What's the procedure? Moreover, with reference to the bungee cords, you are saying each side to be 10mm thick diameter bungee chord by about 5 feet in length, and to achieve 4 laps or turns around each bolt? Do I have to use a car jack to lift the rear of the plane in the air to allow maximum sag/stretch, and then wrap the bungee chord as tight as I can around the bottom and top bolt on each side, 4 wraps for each bolt? Thanks again, Justin ________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Steve Rance via groups.io <steve-r@...> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2021 6:40:42 AM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [XAIR] X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth I did own a XairH called Hawk in UK. Very nice aircraft but I considered the main undercarraige to have poor geometry. I measured my old bungee at 1460mm x 10mm over the loops. It needs maximan stretch (4 1/2 turns from memory) on all 4 to avoid aircraft sagging and that can be a struggle. I tried using 12 bungee I had to install longer bolts to accommodate the thicker bungee. Worked OK for a while but the bolts bent under the strain so reverted to original. I found using original bungees they had to be so tight that they were at their limit of elasticity. I bought the cord from ebay but had to experiment with length to get the best fit. I tried some years ago a uv treatment for Dacron. I cut 2 new blue samples and pinned them to board, left in sunny position all summer, treated sample No. 1 every month 2nd was untreated but half masked from sun. After 8 months the treated sample had faded same as no. 2. I was in France years ago and a French flying Instructor told me his Dacron covered planes were all sprayed with polyester paint on exposed surfaces from new and they were left outside all season and appeared in good condition fabric wise. No real answer other than to keep it in hanger when not flying and you could get 10 years use. Some colours are more prone, blues, reds etc. Whites probably better but I have no data. Steve On 20 Nov 2021 04:22, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote: Good day everyone, Does anyone have specifications of make and model and size needed for each rear side of the bungee cord landing gear as well as installation instructions they can send me or describe to me please? Also, what is the make and model of the sailcloth? How many years or hours is it good for and how many hours is it good for in direct exposure to UV sunlight? Any uv protection sprays I can apply to it, that also clean it? I heard Lucas Slick Mist is a great product? Your help is greatly appreciated, as always. Justin
|
Re: X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth
many thanks.
I will look for 10mm total diameter bungee cords at about 5 feet long - giving a total of 4 pieces at 5 feet long each and 10mm diameter chord.
Justin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes weight has to? be off wheels otherwise you cannot get enough stretch to do the the turns, you have to have a half turn so you end up with loop each end, I was referring to 4.5 half turns, I may be wrong each turn elastic is stretched to
almost max so a helper would be good. Another problem is tracking. If you have toe out, by pulling aircraft straight on surface watch if wheels start to splay out. May be a sigh of bent axles. I have seen several examples. Sides of wheel should be at right
angles to ground. Tracking can also be checked using two long beams and tape measure.?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth
Yes weight has to? be off wheels otherwise you cannot get enough stretch to do the the turns, you have to have a half turn so you end up with loop each end, I was referring to 4.5 half turns, I may be wrong each turn elastic is stretched to almost max so a helper would be good. Another problem is tracking. If you have toe out, by pulling aircraft straight on surface watch if wheels start to splay out. May be a sigh of bent axles. I have seen several examples. Sides of wheel should be at right angles to ground. Tracking can also be checked using two long beams and tape measure.?
On 20 Nov 2021 12:38, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
Many thanks Steve!
My recently purchased X Air Hanuman/Hawk is 2009; going on 13yrs old. It is red exterior but with only 146hrs on airframe and Jabiru 2200.
The Dacron still looks good, I'm no expert but looks like a solid 8.5/10.
Always stored inside hangar and still is.
When I google "Dacron", I don't get much Info with regards to specifics. I lost a piece of paper from the original owner, with make and model of exact covering but I thought it said not to exceed 1000hrs of direct UV exposure.if I do the math, plus 5-10%, I
have about 400/1000 UV direct UV exposure.
I heard about spraying some kind of exterior household paint, but I think I'd need a spray gun with a fine tip/nozzle to prevent dripping and have to calculate how much more weight I am adding to the plane. If I had to make.my own colour choice, it would be
matte grey or matte green, almost like an aggressive military look on a somewhat 'cute' looking plane.
There are currently some areas on my Hanuman whereby the covering looks like it should have been stretched tighter, to give it a better look.
Based off the year of my covering, it is viable to try and apply a heat gun to the covering, in efforts to create a tighter look and feel? If so, how exactly do I tighten this covering? What's the procedure?
Moreover, with reference to the bungee cords, you are saying each side to be 10mm thick diameter bungee chord by about 5 feet in length, and to achieve 4 laps or turns around each bolt?
Do I have to use a car jack to lift the rear of the plane in the air to allow maximum sag/stretch, and then wrap the bungee chord as tight as I can around the bottom and top bolt on each side, 4 wraps for each bolt?
Thanks again,
Justin
I did own a XairH called Hawk in UK. Very nice aircraft but I considered the main undercarraige to have poor geometry. I measured my old bungee at 1460mm x 10mm over the loops. It needs maximan stretch (4 1/2 turns from memory) on all 4 to avoid
aircraft sagging and that can be a struggle. I tried using 12 bungee I had to install longer bolts to accommodate the thicker bungee. Worked OK for a while but the bolts bent under the strain so reverted to original. I found using original bungees they had
to be so tight that they were at their limit of elasticity.
I bought the cord from ebay but had to experiment with length to get the best fit.?
I tried some years ago a uv treatment for Dacron. I cut 2 new blue samples and pinned them to board, left in sunny position all summer, treated sample No. 1 every month 2nd was untreated but half masked from sun. After 8 months the treated sample
had faded same as no. 2.?
I was in France years ago and a French flying Instructor told me his Dacron covered planes were all sprayed with polyester paint on exposed surfaces from new and they were left outside all season and appeared in good condition fabric wise. No
real answer other than to keep it in hanger when not flying and you could get 10 years use. Some colours are more prone, blues, reds etc. Whites probably better but I have no data.?
Steve?
On 20 Nov 2021 04:22, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
Good day everyone,
Does anyone have specifications of make and model and size needed for each rear side of the bungee cord landing gear as well as installation instructions they can send me or describe to me please?
Also, what is the make and model of the sailcloth? How many years or hours is it good for and how many hours is it good for in direct exposure to UV sunlight?
Any uv protection sprays I can apply to it, that also clean it? I heard Lucas Slick Mist is a great product?
Your help is greatly appreciated, as always.
Justin
|
Re: X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth
Many thanks Steve!
My recently purchased X Air Hanuman/Hawk is 2009; going on 13yrs old. It is red exterior but with only 146hrs on airframe and Jabiru 2200.
The Dacron still looks good, I'm no expert but looks like a solid 8.5/10.
Always stored inside hangar and still is.
When I google "Dacron", I don't get much Info with regards to specifics. I lost a piece of paper from the original owner, with make and model of exact covering but I thought it said not to exceed 1000hrs of direct UV exposure.if I do the math, plus 5-10%, I
have about 400/1000 UV direct UV exposure.
I heard about spraying some kind of exterior household paint, but I think I'd need a spray gun with a fine tip/nozzle to prevent dripping and have to calculate how much more weight I am adding to the plane. If I had to make.my own colour choice, it would be
matte grey or matte green, almost like an aggressive military look on a somewhat 'cute' looking plane.
There are currently some areas on my Hanuman whereby the covering looks like it should have been stretched tighter, to give it a better look.
Based off the year of my covering, it is viable to try and apply a heat gun to the covering, in efforts to create a tighter look and feel? If so, how exactly do I tighten this covering? What's the procedure?
Moreover, with reference to the bungee cords, you are saying each side to be 10mm thick diameter bungee chord by about 5 feet in length, and to achieve 4 laps or turns around each bolt?
Do I have to use a car jack to lift the rear of the plane in the air to allow maximum sag/stretch, and then wrap the bungee chord as tight as I can around the bottom and top bolt on each side, 4 wraps for each bolt?
Thanks again,
Justin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I did own a XairH called Hawk in UK. Very nice aircraft but I considered the main undercarraige to have poor geometry. I measured my old bungee at 1460mm x 10mm over the loops. It needs maximan stretch (4 1/2 turns from memory) on all 4 to avoid
aircraft sagging and that can be a struggle. I tried using 12 bungee I had to install longer bolts to accommodate the thicker bungee. Worked OK for a while but the bolts bent under the strain so reverted to original. I found using original bungees they had
to be so tight that they were at their limit of elasticity.
I bought the cord from ebay but had to experiment with length to get the best fit.?
I tried some years ago a uv treatment for Dacron. I cut 2 new blue samples and pinned them to board, left in sunny position all summer, treated sample No. 1 every month 2nd was untreated but half masked from sun. After 8 months the treated sample
had faded same as no. 2.?
I was in France years ago and a French flying Instructor told me his Dacron covered planes were all sprayed with polyester paint on exposed surfaces from new and they were left outside all season and appeared in good condition fabric wise. No
real answer other than to keep it in hanger when not flying and you could get 10 years use. Some colours are more prone, blues, reds etc. Whites probably better but I have no data.?
Steve?
|
Re: X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth
I did own a XairH called Hawk in UK. Very nice aircraft but I considered the main undercarraige to have poor geometry. I measured my old bungee at 1460mm x 10mm over the loops. It needs maximan stretch (4 1/2 turns from memory) on all 4 to avoid aircraft sagging and that can be a struggle. I tried using 12 bungee I had to install longer bolts to accommodate the thicker bungee. Worked OK for a while but the bolts bent under the strain so reverted to original. I found using original bungees they had to be so tight that they were at their limit of elasticity. I bought the cord from ebay but had to experiment with length to get the best fit.? I tried some years ago a uv treatment for Dacron. I cut 2 new blue samples and pinned them to board, left in sunny position all summer, treated sample No. 1 every month 2nd was untreated but half masked from sun. After 8 months the treated sample had faded same as no. 2.? I was in France years ago and a French flying Instructor told me his Dacron covered planes were all sprayed with polyester paint on exposed surfaces from new and they were left outside all season and appeared in good condition fabric wise. No real answer other than to keep it in hanger when not flying and you could get 10 years use. Some colours are more prone, blues, reds etc. Whites probably better but I have no data.?
Steve?
On 20 Nov 2021 04:22, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote: Good day everyone,
Does anyone have specifications of make and model and size needed for each rear side of the bungee cord landing gear as well as installation instructions they can send me or describe to me please?
Also, what is the make and model of the sailcloth? How many years or hours is it good for and how many hours is it good for in direct exposure to UV sunlight?
Any uv protection sprays I can apply to it, that also clean it? I heard Lucas Slick Mist is a great product?
Your help is greatly appreciated, as always.
Justin
|
X Air Hanuman bungee cord rear landing gear and sail cloth
Good day everyone,
Does anyone have specifications of make and model and size needed for each rear side of the bungee cord landing gear as well as installation instructions they can send me or describe to me please?
Also, what is the make and model of the sailcloth? How many years or hours is it good for and how many hours is it good for in direct exposure to UV sunlight?
Any uv protection sprays I can apply to it, that also clean it? I heard Lucas Slick Mist is a great product?
Your help is greatly appreciated, as always.
Justin
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
good catch michael!
many thanks?- i will pay attention to that as i decide what to do.
if i close gaps during the cold, it will cause a hotter cabin in the summer months so i have to consider all flying conditions.
i will also install at least 2 carbon monoxide detectors
justin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just as a secondary comment, be careful closing all of the gaps. In one of the standard X-Air aircraft I had a customer in the early 2000's that closed all of the gaps and it ended up creating a massive vacuum in the cabin area and somehow managed to pull
in exhaust fumes...?? from his story he was lucky to land and survive. If you do this make sure you have a good carbon monoxide detector
Justin Gregoris wrote on 24/10/2021 3:52 am:
Thanks?for all the help Geoff.
I think the seller gave me new bungee cords, but at any rate, it would be nice for you to see the plane in person so you can give me all the tips for safe, fun and efficient flying.
Since I literally just got it and dont have many hours as a pilot, id like to meet up however it may be with another gentlemen and/or when i get more comfortable with this plane.
are you comfortable landing at mansfield? you are more than welcome?to come and touch down there any time.?
there are two runways - north and south is 1400 feet and east and west is 1800 feet.
when we landed the hanuman there yesterday on the north and south runway, we used about 150 feet lol.
it would be nice to see you at some/any point.?
i am currently researching how to change my prop to a finer setting; less bite and looking for ways to close all the air gaps in the cockpit - although i dont know if closing all gaps is a good idea since the summer time will feel like a sweat shop....
i presume i will store the plane as the weather degrades - probably for 4 months or so.
justin?
?
Wow - identical colour scheme as mine was. ? ?Fabric looks good in the photos. ? Just wash with water and dish soap, then rinse. ? Be careful what you use on Mylar fabric. ? ?Do you know about the landing gear bungees? ? ?Looks like they could
use some tightening. ?Inside looks great. ?Nice instrument package. ??
Let’s meet up at Collingwood on a good day this month ….
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
?
Has turn and bank, vsi, ASI, GPS, full intercom,? Sensenich ground adjustable propeller, altimeter, and transponder. 140 hrs TT.??
What can I spray on this fabric to clean it and take the dust off?
Justin
Send some photos inside and out – would like to see it!
?
Agree it is drafty in the winter – flow through air conditioning!
?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
?
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
?
?
C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4 Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight. If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we potentially would have
had to do an emergency landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000' ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's safe and sound.
1.5hr flight 22knot headwind.
Glad we picked up it today since the weather is highly unpredictable this time of year. I was co-pilot flying with a couple-thousand hour Dutch
aviation veteran who has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41.
I couldn't have done it without him.
I may change the pitch on the Sensenich propeller to less course for faster take off.
Also have to figure out how to seal the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through the cock pit!
<CFB5E1C6963A4ED6863D8CF1C09F2413.png>
Did you pick up the plane?
?
<57B29EEE805C40F184A6FC17CC0CB79C.png>
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
?
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
<E35D83E8F6774E5CBBCD3301CAFF7971.png>
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
<30865D8A08594BE09A27ABA72600E93C.png>
Where are you keeping the plane?
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the
next 10 days to make the voyage.
<EFA232F7F3944EBE8C03B38F9FB7D685.png>
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
<87D64DFFEBCE4690B401815711C53C11.png>
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the
test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners,
so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it
when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything
else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder,
using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving
engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the
aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same
aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good
cooling design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft
- higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91
or 93 MoGas.
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is
not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
On 15 Oct 2021, at 00:36, Clive Cunningham
<kmmotor@...> wrote:
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
<A1EA0B53776340F58D7588D7FDBCA6CC.png>
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
?
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
?
--
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
<PXL_20211018_140850740.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123301118.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123212704.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123200270.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123130601.jpg>
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Just as a secondary comment, be careful closing all of the gaps. In
one of the standard X-Air aircraft I had a customer in the early
2000's that closed all of the gaps and it ended up creating a
massive vacuum in the cabin area and somehow managed to pull in
exhaust fumes...?? from his story he was lucky to land and survive.
If you do this make sure you have a good carbon monoxide detector
Justin Gregoris wrote on 24/10/2021
3:52 am:
Thanks?for all the help Geoff.
I think the seller gave me new bungee cords, but at any rate, it
would be nice for you to see the plane in person so you can give
me all the tips for safe, fun and efficient flying.
Since I literally just got it and dont have many hours as a
pilot, id like to meet up however it may be with another
gentlemen and/or when i get more comfortable with this plane.
are you comfortable landing at mansfield? you are more than
welcome?to come and touch down there any time.?
there are two runways - north and south is 1400 feet and east
and west is 1800 feet.
when we landed the hanuman there yesterday on the north and
south runway, we used about 150 feet lol.
it would be nice to see you at some/any point.?
i am currently researching how to change my prop to a finer
setting; less bite and looking for ways to close all the air
gaps in the cockpit - although i dont know if closing all gaps
is a good idea since the summer time will feel like a sweat
shop....
i presume i will store the plane as the weather degrades -
probably for 4 months or so.
justin?
?
Wow - identical colour scheme as mine was. ?
?Fabric looks good in the photos. ? Just wash with water and
dish soap, then rinse. ? Be careful what you use on Mylar
fabric. ? ?Do you know about the landing gear bungees? ? ?Looks
like they could use some tightening. ?Inside looks great. ?Nice
instrument package. ??
Let’s meet up at Collingwood on a good day this month ….
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
?
Has turn and bank,
vsi, ASI, GPS, full intercom,? Sensenich ground
adjustable propeller, altimeter, and transponder. 140
hrs TT.??
What can I spray on
this fabric to clean it and take the dust off?
Justin
Send some photos inside and
out – would like to see it!
?
Agree it is drafty in the
winter – flow through air conditioning!
?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
?
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
?
?
C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4
Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight.
If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we
potentially would have had to do an emergency
landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000'
ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's
safe and sound.
1.5hr flight 22knot headwind.
Glad we picked up it today since
the weather is highly unpredictable this time of
year. I was co-pilot flying with a
couple-thousand hour Dutch aviation veteran who
has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41.
I couldn't have done it without
him.
I may change the pitch on the
Sensenich propeller to less course for faster
take off.
Also have to figure out how to seal
the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through
the cock pit!
<CFB5E1C6963A4ED6863D8CF1C09F2413.png>
Did you pick up the
plane?
?
<57B29EEE805C40F184A6FC17CC0CB79C.png>
I would suggest doing
several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway
08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field
and soft field takeoffs and landings ,
before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best
on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates.
?
?
Let's hope Friday
morning goes well.
I presume it will be
about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from
Tillsonburg airport, we will have
to try and zig zag, to miss/pass
guelph, kitchener, hamilton
area(s) and then head
north-north-east towards CPV4.
<E35D83E8F6774E5CBBCD3301CAFF7971.png>
Maybe
Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
?
CPV4 -
Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
<30865D8A08594BE09A27ABA72600E93C.png>
Where
are you keeping the plane?
?
yes sir. it has a transponder
indeed.
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is
to drive from my place
2.1hrs via car to
where my partner and i
will check the plane,
do a run up and off we
go. friday looks like
the only good day in
the next 10 days to
make the voyage.
<EFA232F7F3944EBE8C03B38F9FB7D685.png>
Sure.
? ? We could connect at
Guelph Airpark sometime-
unless you have a
transponder…?
?
Maybe one
day next warm
season I can
come see you in
person with the
Hanuman!?
<87D64DFFEBCE4690B401815711C53C11.png>
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and
snow clearing. ?
?I have heard of
XAirs on skis
((out in Winnipeg)
so it’s not
impossible. ??
?
Did
you use winter
skiis or
always have
tires even in
the winter?
I fly off
grass so if
there is snow,
I don't I'll
be able to
take off and
touch down on
the grass.
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
I
flew my XAir
year round so
no experience
with
preservatives
etc. ? ?I
turned my prop
over several
times as part
of each pre
start
checklist. ?
AMEs
and engine
manufacturers
recommend
minimum of one
hour flying
per week at
normal
operating
temps for best
engine health.
?
Running
engine on
ground for 10
min every so
often does
more harm than
good -
promoting
condensation,
moisture
buildup and
corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
?
I
ended up
buying the
2009 X air
Hanuman with
the 2nd
generation
Jabiru 2200
with 139hrs.
I
did a leakdown
test and all
cylinders read
the same. I
put 80psi in
and the result
was 76psi. I
guess that's
pretty good.
I
got a little
air passing
through to the
crankcase vent
but I think it
was because
the rings were
starting to
contract since
we didn't do
the test when
it was really
hot.
My
intent was to
perform the
test
immediately
after a
45minute
flight but
then we saw
some other
rans s-7s and
starting
talking to the
owners, so the
temperature
dropped to
about warm, if
that and not
hot.
I
feel more
confident with
this jabiru
motor now.
I
should turn
the propeller
by hand in its
regular
direction to
move oil to
higher
locations
within the
combustion
chamber prior
to starting it
when it's cold
outside or any
time the
engine has not
been started
for more than
one week?
During
cold
wintertime
when I am not
flying for
about 3-4
months, I
should turn
the propeller
every 10 days
?
Some
say don't
touch anything
during storage
because by
turning prop
by hand will
end up
scuffing
cylinder
walls, or
should I do
it?
Also,
if I don't fly
for 3-4 months
during cold
wintertime, I
spray LPS
lubricant into
all cylinders
then put plugs
back?
Then
change oil in
the spring
once I start
flying again?
With
the Sensenich
ground
adjustable
prop on a
heavier than
normal pitch
setting, the
plane took off
in no time
with two full
grown
gentlemen.
Lastly,
any tips on
how to cut and
align and
mount the
propeller
spinner, to
finish off the
aesthetics at
the front?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
The
gentleman who
had his
Hanuman with
3/4 tank fuel
and two adults
also had a
ground
adjustable
prop and oil
cooler.put on
his Jabiru
2200.
Everything
else was bone
stock and
simply
followed
manufacturers
maintenance
specifications.
I'll try to
ask more about
tomorrow when
I see him.
Now
onto other
tips - engine
leak down
test: what is
the best way
to do this?
Fly
the plane for
about 30mins
or so, land
and then take
one plug
out,turn the
prop by hand
and start the
process of
dumping air
inside the
cylinder,
using the
double dial
air regulator?
I think
the manual
calls for
anything less
than 60psi,
from the
initial 80psi
to begin with
is a fail...?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
When you have an aircraft flying on floats
you want to
get the best
possible power
to weight
ratio so you
can get off
the water
quickly. The
Rotax does a
good job with
this because
of its geared
high revving
engine, the
Jabiru is very
slow to excel
in rate by
comparison and
the climb rate
is
significantly
slower. All of
this goes
against the
airframe
powered by a
Jabiru being
totally
suitable for
floats. Sure,
it is probably
going to work
but you are
placing the
aircraft and
occupants at a
higher risk if
it takes a
thousand
metres to get
off the water
whereas
normally it
would take 300
m as an
example/comparison
Justin
Gregoris wrote
on 17/10/2021
8:08 pm:
Have
you flow a
hanuman with
Jabiru 2200 on
floats?
Wondering
why this would
be a disaster?
I've
spoke to
a.couple
people with
this set up
and they had
nothing bad to
say about it.?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement
in the final
sentence. The
Jabiru is not
the correct
choice of
engine for the
Hanuman
airframe. The
Rotax 912 in
80 hp
configuration
runs rings
around the
same aircraft
with a Jabiru.
Completely
forgetting the
debate about
reliability,
the Rotax gets
off in almost
half the
distance, it
climbs 300 to
400 feet
faster every
minute and it
uses less fuel
at a higher
cruise
speed.....?
Using a Jabiru
on a float
version of the
Hanuman would
be a disaster
in my opinion.
Richard
Stubbs wrote
on 17/10/2021
4:15 pm:
Hi
All
?
These
Jabiru motors
are a bit of
an enigma.
Some seem to
last well,
others just
don’t! There’s
always been
this debate
with them as
to what fuel
to use, all
100 octane
Avgas, 95
octane / Avgas
mix……? Quite
honestly who
knows at this
point? When
you have an
engine that
sometimes may
go the
distance
while? others
fail early
everyone
becomes an
expert on
either how
best to
operate them
properly to
last or ‘now
we know’ what
the problems
are!
?
In
my opinion
whether you
like them or
not the Jabiru
85hp 2200 is a
road runner
without a
reduction
drive as per
the Rotax 582
or 912 series
engines. At
all up weight
when you are
hot and high
‘watch out’! ?
?
Given
that the
Hanuman is
supposed to be
a STOL type
microlight/LSA
the question
is then ‘Is
this the right
engine to
begin with’?
Certainly not
on this
airframe I
feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it
when I sold my
XAir and the
engine was
running
flawlessly. ?
? I maintained
and operated
it as per
Jabiru
maintenance
requirements.
? ?Cowling had
good cooling
design and
never had any
issue with
CHT…….
?
It's
also important
to note the
aircraft that
are in fact
being run with
the Jabiru
2200.
That
influences the
performance,
if the overall
engineering
has/had flaws.
I.e., the
cowling is
different on
each aircraft
- higher vs
lower
temperatures,
etc.
Also,
lead in the
AvGas is said
to aid in
lubricity and
ultimately
lower
temperatures,
versus Jabiru
2200s that end
up either
mixing or
using 91 or 93
MoGas.
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
I would like to agree with this because it
would be very
comforting but
how do you
explain all of
the failures
in Jabiru
aircraft built
by the
factory. They
know what
they're doing
after building
many for 30
years and they
still have
failures.
It sounds like
I am Jabiru
bashing but I
am not, it is
just a fact
that we have
seen by the
few operators
at our
airfield, all
with Jabiru
engines in
Jabiru
aircraft.
The Jabiru
factory
demonstrator
flew from
Bundaberg and
was heading
south with a
brand-new
engine with
all of the
latest
modifications
and it failed
and had to
land at our
airfield, this
was the latest
generation
whizbang
everything and
in about 8
hours running
time the heads
were shot and
there were
Scuffing marks
On the bore of
2 of the
cylinders....
This was about
12 months ago.
Mo
Davies via
groups.io
wrote on
16/10/2021
7:11 pm:
From
my experience,
the
reliability of
any Jab engine
is more
affected by
the quality of
its
installation
than any other
factor. ?If
sufficient
care has been
taken to get
it right, they
run. ?If
cooling, for
instance, is
not properly
achieved, they
fail with
monotonous
regularity.
?
On 15 Oct 2021, at 00:36, Clive Cunningham
<kmmotor@...> wrote:
?
Chaps,
the comments
about the
Jabiru were
not from me!?
I own a
2200, I am an
Aussie, and I
stand by them.
<A1EA0B53776340F58D7588D7FDBCA6CC.png>
Clive
Cunningham
K&M
HD Motorcycles
10
Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA
5033
Ph.
+618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
?
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
Hi Justin
I would not
take the
comments from
Clive
regarding the
Jabiru engine
seriosly.
I have a good
experince with
my jabiru 2200
and I know
that 4 of my
friends which
have those
engine also
are happy with
this engine.
Rotax are fine
engine but
there are lots
of additional
combonents to
look after and
maintain. If
you plan to
replace to
rotax then
stay with the
80hp. The 212
and 14 are
more
problematic
than 80 hp.
-----
Upprunalegt
skeyti -----
Frá: Michael
Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14
Oct 2021
20:53:14 -0000
(GMT)
Efni: Re:
[XAIR] Testing
fuel for
Ethanol
Justin
Gregoris wrote
on 14/10/2021
9:44 pm:
> Many
thanks for the
reply.
>
> Some more
questions
about the
Hanuman:
>
> - how
long will it
take with two
adults and
full fuel with
puddle
> jumper
amphibious
floats to get
off the water?
not sure
because I have
> not flown
with the
floats
>
> - same
situation, but
how long will
it take to off
on grass? the
Rotax
> engine
about 80 m,
the Jabiru
engine almost
200 m
>
> - same
situation, how
long to land
on water?
>
> - same
situation, how
long to land
of grass?
mostly depends
on the
> skill of
the pilot
>
> - what is
the worst part
about the
Jabiru 2200
engines? the
>
reliability,
the oil leaks,
the fact that
most don't go
past 400 hours
> before
failure and
they simply
don't perform
all that well
on the
> aircraft
compared to
the Rotax
>
> - any
fixes for the
above
issue(s)?
replace it
with the Rotax
>
> - any
modifications
to get better
results with
the Jabiru
2200? yes,
> sell it
and replace it
with the
Rotax.
Honestly, they
are just not a
> good fit
and they just
don't go long
enough to be
classified as
> anywhere
near reliable.
Please look at
the aviation
advertisements
for
> Jabiru
aircraft and
you will see
dozens of
advertisements
or with a
> similar
story, Jabiru
600 hours
engine 200
hours and so
on. They quite
> proudly
advertise they
have done a
new top end
and everything
else
> when they
are selling
the aircraft
but if you buy
a Rotax 99
times out
> of 100
you don't have
the same
problems
>
> Thanks
again, Justin
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:*
Monday,
October 11,
2021 3:25:45
AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
>
*Subject:* Re:
[XAIR] Testing
fuel for
Ethanol
> I
enquired with
the
manufacturer
of "STABIL"
fuel
stabiliser for
long
> term
storage, about
aviation use.
> The
answer was "
No, for legal
reasons". Make
of that what
you will!
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive
Cunningham
>
> K&M
HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon
Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618
8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
>
kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:*
Sunday,
October 10,
2021 9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
>
*Subject:* Re:
[XAIR] Testing
fuel for
Ethanol
> You can
also test with
this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies
via groups.io
wrote on
10/10/2021
1:02 am:
>> Put a
measured
amount of
water into a
suitable glass
vessel. A
>>
graduated test
tube is ideal
for this. Mark
the top of the
water on
>> the
glass vessel.
Put in an
equal amount
of Avgas.
Stopper and
shake
>> well.
A thumb would
work on a test
tube, although
I do not
advocate
>> using
the thumb in
direct contact
with petrol.
>> Check
the water
level again.
Ethanol, being
hygroscopic,
will mix
>> with
the water, the
level
difference
being
commensurate
with the
>>
percentage of
ethanol in the
fuel.
?Presumably it
is possible in
this
>> way
to remove the
ethanol, but
there are
risks involved
with
>>
?processing“
fuel in this
way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>>
On 8 Oct 2021,
at 11:16, jgregoris789@...
>>>
<mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work
and what do I
need
>>>
to buy to
complete this?
>>>
>>> I
am not
particularly
concerned with
ethanol
content, but
rather
>>>
detonation
differences
between using
MoGas shell 91
or 93 versus
>>>
paying 40% for
AvGas that is
nowhere near
me. I would
have to drive
>>>
40km in a
different
direction,
only to fill
5, 20litre
Cana if
>>>
AvGas, then
drive back to
the grass
field and put
it in the
Hanuman.
>>>
From a
liability
point of view,
it is not
surprising how
Jabiru does
>>>
not cover or
advise MoGas
to be used -
not even any
additives,
which
>>>
is another
topic is like
to introduce.
Why can't I
purchase good
>>>
quality shell
91 or 93
MoGas, and
then add good
quality octane
>>>
booster with
an additional
dose of
seafoam, to
preserve the
fuel as
>>>
it may sit for
a couple
weeks?
>>>
>>> I
have used many
small and big
motors, two
stroke and
four stroke
>>>
gasoline and
Diesel
engines, but
never airplane
motors.
>>>
>>>
Is there
really a
difference -
am I missing
something or
is it the
>>>
liability
disclaimers
that have me
all caught up
in a knot?
>>>
>>>
In essence, I
don't see how
any problems
would arise,
knowing these
>>>
Jabiru 2200
motors are
about 8.1:1
compression
ratio, using
91 or 93
>>>
shell MoGas,
with seafoam
additive to
preserve and
offer some
better
>>>
lubricity?
>>>
>>>
Justin
>
> --
> With
regards,???
Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7
5522 0583
> USA +1
213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL
AIRCRAFT
DEALER OF THE
YEAR 2012
> Winner of
the EAA August
Raspet Award
2012
> PIPISTREL
AIRCRAFT
DEALER OF THE
YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype
name:??
xcomavionics
>
> Please
note: because
of the volume
of e-mail we
are now
receiving our
replies are
> done
using voice
recognition
software in an
effort to
speed up the
reply process.
> Sometimes
the voice
recognition
program
inserts silly
words or
doesn't
actually
> do what
it is meant to
do.?
Occasionally
these mistakes
get through
our quick
>
proofreading
of each e-mail
sent, so
please accept
my apologies
if the odd
mistake
> gets
through.
>
> Legal
Notice: The
information
contained in
this email is
confidential
> and
intended only
to be read by
the person(s)
to whom it is
addressed.
> No one is
authorized to
copy, use,
disclose,
distribute or
rely on this
>
information
for any
purpose
whatsoever. If
this
communication
has been
> sent to
you in error,
please email
the sender and
delete the
message.
>
> "Amateurs
practice till
they get it
right;
>
Professionals
practice till
they can’t get
it wrong."
>
--
With
regards,???
Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522
0583
USA +1 213 984
1237
PIPISTREL
AIRCRAFT
DEALER OF THE
YEAR 2012
Winner of the
EAA August
Raspet Award
2012
PIPISTREL
AIRCRAFT
DEALER OF THE
YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:??
xcomavionics
Please note:
because of the
volume of
e-mail we are
now receiving
our replies
are
done using
voice
recognition
software in an
effort to
speed up the
reply process.
Sometimes the
voice
recognition
program
inserts silly
words or
doesn't
actually
do what it is
meant to do.?
Occasionally
these mistakes
get through
our quick
proofreading
of each e-mail
sent, so
please accept
my apologies
if the odd
mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice:
The
information
contained in
this email is
confidential
and intended
only to be
read by the
person(s) to
whom it is
addressed.
No one is
authorized to
copy, use,
disclose,
distribute or
rely on this
information
for any
purpose
whatsoever. If
this
communication
has been
sent to you in
error, please
email the
sender and
delete the
message.
"Amateurs
practice till
they get it
right;
Professionals
practice till
they can’t get
it wrong."
?
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
|
With regards,
Michael Coates
Pipistrel
Aircraft
Master
Distributor
for USA,
Australia
& New
Zealand
AU
+61 7 5522
0583
USA +1 213 984
1237
Slovenia +386
3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype:
xcomavionics
|
|
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
Pipistrel
Aircraft -
Dealer of the
year 2012
Winner of the
EAA August
Raspet Award
2012
Pipistrel
Aircraft -
Dealer of the
year 2017
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
?
--
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
|
With regards,
Michael Coates
Pipistrel
Aircraft
Master
Distributor
for USA,
Australia
& New
Zealand
AU
+61 7 5522
0583
USA +1 213 984
1237
Slovenia +386
3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype:
xcomavionics
|
|
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
Pipistrel
Aircraft -
Dealer of the
year 2012
Winner of the
EAA August
Raspet Award
2012
Pipistrel
Aircraft -
Dealer of the
year 2017
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
<PXL_20211018_140850740.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123301118.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123212704.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123200270.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123130601.jpg>
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin:
Unable Mansfield due to runway length and performance of my current plane.
Collingwood best - but only when you are comfortable flying there.
Keep in touch!
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Thanks?for all the help Geoff.
I think the seller gave me new bungee cords, but at any rate, it would be nice for you to see the plane in person so you can give me all the tips for safe, fun and efficient flying.
Since I literally just got it and dont have many hours as a pilot, id like to meet up however it may be with another gentlemen and/or when i get more comfortable with this plane.
are you comfortable landing at mansfield? you are more than welcome?to come and touch down there any time.?
there are two runways - north and south is 1400 feet and east and west is 1800 feet.
when we landed the hanuman there yesterday on the north and south runway, we used about 150 feet lol.
it would be nice to see you at some/any point.?
i am currently researching how to change my prop to a finer setting; less bite and looking for ways to close all the air gaps in the cockpit - although i dont know if closing all gaps is a good idea since the summer time will feel like a sweat shop....
i presume i will store the plane as the weather degrades - probably for 4 months or so.
justin?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wow - identical colour scheme as mine was. ? ?Fabric looks good in the photos. ? Just wash with water and dish soap, then rinse. ? Be careful what you use on Mylar fabric. ? ?Do you know about the landing gear bungees? ? ?Looks like they could
use some tightening. ?Inside looks great. ?Nice instrument package. ??
Let’s meet up at Collingwood on a good day this month ….
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 23, 2021, at 6:36 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Has turn and bank, vsi, ASI, GPS, full intercom,? Sensenich ground adjustable propeller, altimeter, and transponder. 140 hrs TT.??
What can I spray on this fabric to clean it and take the dust off?
Justin
Send some photos inside and out – would like to see it!
?
Agree it is drafty in the winter – flow through air conditioning!
?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
?
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
?
?
C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4 Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight. If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we potentially would have
had to do an emergency landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000' ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's safe and sound.
1.5hr flight 22knot headwind.
Glad we picked up it today since the weather is highly unpredictable this time of year. I was co-pilot flying with a couple-thousand hour Dutch aviation
veteran who has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41.
I couldn't have done it without him.
I may change the pitch on the Sensenich propeller to less course for faster take off.
Also have to figure out how to seal the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through the cock pit!
<CFB5E1C6963A4ED6863D8CF1C09F2413.png>
Did you pick up the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
<57B29EEE805C40F184A6FC17CC0CB79C.png>
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
<E35D83E8F6774E5CBBCD3301CAFF7971.png>
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
<30865D8A08594BE09A27ABA72600E93C.png>
Where are you keeping the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the
next 10 days to make the voyage.
<EFA232F7F3944EBE8C03B38F9FB7D685.png>
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
<87D64DFFEBCE4690B401815711C53C11.png>
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test
when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so
the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when
it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything
else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder,
using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving
engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the
aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same
aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what fuel
to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to last
or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly not
on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good cooling
design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft
- higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91 or
93 MoGas.
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is not
properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
On 15 Oct 2021, at 00:36, Clive Cunningham
<kmmotor@...> wrote:
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
<A1EA0B53776340F58D7588D7FDBCA6CC.png>
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
?
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16, jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
?
--
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
|
<PXL_20211018_140850740.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123301118.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123212704.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123200270.jpg>
<PXL_20211018_123130601.jpg>
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Wow - identical colour scheme as mine was. ? ?Fabric looks good in the photos. ? Just wash with water and dish soap, then rinse. ? Be careful what you use on Mylar fabric. ? ?Do you know about the landing gear bungees? ? ?Looks like they could use some tightening. ?Inside looks great. ?Nice instrument package. ??
Let’s meet up at Collingwood on a good day this month …. Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 23, 2021, at 6:36 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Has turn and bank, vsi, ASI, GPS, full intercom,? Sensenich ground adjustable propeller, altimeter, and transponder. 140 hrs TT.??
What can I spray on this fabric to clean it and take the dust off?
Justin
Send some photos inside and out – would like to see it!
?
Agree it is drafty in the winter – flow through air conditioning!
?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
?
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
?
?
C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4 Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight. If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we potentially would have had
to do an emergency landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000' ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's safe and sound.
1.5hr flight 22knot headwind.
Glad we picked up it today since the weather is highly unpredictable this time of year. I was co-pilot flying with a couple-thousand hour Dutch aviation
veteran who has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41.
I couldn't have done it without him.
I may change the pitch on the Sensenich propeller to less course for faster take off.
Also have to figure out how to seal the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through the cock pit!
<CFB5E1C6963A4ED6863D8CF1C09F2413.png>
Did you pick up the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
<57B29EEE805C40F184A6FC17CC0CB79C.png>
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
<E35D83E8F6774E5CBBCD3301CAFF7971.png>
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
<30865D8A08594BE09A27ABA72600E93C.png>
Where are you keeping the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next
10 days to make the voyage.
<EFA232F7F3944EBE8C03B38F9FB7D685.png>
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
<87D64DFFEBCE4690B401815711C53C11.png>
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test
when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the
temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when
it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything
else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder,
using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving
engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the
aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
<3C5E8C905FDB48EFA3E736E42C98E209.png>
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft
with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what fuel
to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to last
or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series engines.
At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly not
on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good cooling
design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft
- higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91 or
93 MoGas.
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is not
properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
On 15 Oct 2021, at 00:36, Clive Cunningham
<kmmotor@...> wrote:
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
<A1EA0B53776340F58D7588D7FDBCA6CC.png>
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
?
<8BBA3D63BCD74531921B41B71A826A50.png>
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16, jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
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?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
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With regards, Michael Coates
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Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
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Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
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<71392C7BA7F24B2996C0DECDA61E8779.png>
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With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
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Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
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Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Has turn and bank, vsi, ASI, GPS, full intercom,? Sensenich ground adjustable propeller, altimeter, and transponder. 140 hrs TT.??
What can I spray on this fabric to clean it and take the dust off?
Justin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Send some photos inside and out – would like to see it!
?
Agree it is drafty in the winter – flow through air conditioning!
?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
?
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
?
?
C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4 Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight. If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we potentially would have had
to do an emergency landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000' ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's safe and sound.
1.5hr flight 22knot headwind.
Glad we picked up it today since the weather is highly unpredictable this time of year. I was co-pilot flying with a couple-thousand hour Dutch aviation
veteran who has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41.
I couldn't have done it without him.
I may change the pitch on the Sensenich propeller to less course for faster take off.
Also have to figure out how to seal the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through the cock pit!
Did you pick up the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next
10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test
when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the
temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when
it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything
else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder,
using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving
engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the
aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft
with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what fuel
to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to last
or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series engines.
At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly not
on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good cooling
design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft
- higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91 or
93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is not
properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
On 15 Oct 2021, at 00:36, Clive Cunningham
<kmmotor@...> wrote:
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
?
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16, jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
?
--
|
|
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
?
--
|
|
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Send some photos inside and out – would like to see it! ? Agree it is drafty in the winter – flow through air conditioning! ? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario, Canada ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Justin GregorisSent: October 22, 2021 8:50 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol ? C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4 Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight. If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we potentially would have had to do an emergency landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000' ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's safe and sound. 1.5hr flight 22knot headwind. Glad we picked up it today since the weather is highly unpredictable this time of year. I was co-pilot flying with a couple-thousand hour Dutch aviation veteran who has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41. I couldn't have done it without him. I may change the pitch on the Sensenich propeller to less course for faster take off. Also have to figure out how to seal the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through the cock pit! 
Did you pick up the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? 
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ?? All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? Let's hope Friday morning goes well. I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight. I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4. 
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario 
Where are you keeping the plane?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? yes sir. it has a transponder indeed. regardless, we will figure it out. wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage. 
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!? 
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter? I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass. 
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ? AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ? Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ?? Cheers. ?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
? I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs. I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good. I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot. My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot. I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now. I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week? During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ? Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it? Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back? Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again? With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen. Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about tomorrow when I see him. Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this? Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator? I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm: Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats? Wondering why this would be a disaster? I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm: Hi All ? These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are! ? In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ? ? Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly not on this airframe I feel. ? BR Richard ? ?? ? ? My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good cooling design and never had any issue with CHT……. ? It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200. That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft - higher vs lower temperatures, etc. Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91 or 93 MoGas. 
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm: From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity. ? Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!? I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them. 
Clive Cunningham K&M HD Motorcycles 10 Deacon Ave Richmond SA 5033 Ph. +618 8234 1090 kmmotor@... kmmotorcycles.com.au ?
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16, jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
? -- With regards,??? Michael Coates ? AU +61 7 5522 0583 USA +1 213 984 1237 ? ? PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012 Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012 PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017 ? mailto:mcoates@... ? skype name:?? xcomavionics ? Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process. Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake gets through. ? Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed. No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message. ? "Amateurs practice till they get it right; Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
? -- 
| With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470 Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics |
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
? --
| With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470 Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics |
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Hey Geoff
Yes sir.
C-IIFY safely landed at CPV4 Mansfield 1100hrs this morning. What a flight. If we left 15 mins later from Tillsonburg,, we potentially would have had to do an emergency landing. Last 10km had bad weather. 1000' ceiling. Rain. Black clouds. Nuts. But she's safe
and sound.
1.5hr flight 22knot headwind.
Glad we picked up it today since the weather is highly unpredictable this time of year. I was co-pilot flying with a couple-thousand hour Dutch aviation veteran who has flown over 40 aircraft; now 41.
I couldn't have done it without him.
I may change the pitch on the Sensenich propeller to less course for faster take off.
Also have to figure out how to seal the air leaks as the cold cold wind gets through the cock pit!
Thanks for checking up,
Justin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Did you pick up the plane?
Geoff G
On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Thanks!!
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Roger.
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to
what fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly
to last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912
series engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had
good cooling design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on
each aircraft - higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using
91 or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after
building many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance,
is not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Did you pick up the plane? Geoff G
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Thanks!!
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Roger.
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good
cooling design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each
aircraft - higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using
91 or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance,
is not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Roger.
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good
cooling design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each
aircraft - higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using
91 or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance,
is not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
I would suggest doing several circuits at Tillsonburg on runway 08/26 (nice and long) practicing short field and soft field takeoffs and landings , before you tackle your home field. ??
All the best on Friday. ? Hope the weather cooperates. ? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Roger.
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good
cooling design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each
aircraft - higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using
91 or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is
not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Roger.
Let's hope Friday morning goes well.
I presume it will be about 1 hour and 15 minute flight.
I think from Tillsonburg airport, we will have to try and zig zag, to miss/pass guelph, kitchener, hamilton area(s) and then head north-north-east towards CPV4.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good
cooling design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each
aircraft - higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using
91 or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is
not properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
Maybe Collingwood for coffee. ? ? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good cooling
design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft
- higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91
or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is not
properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Re: Testing fuel for Ethanol
CPV4 - Mansfield Aerodrome, Ontario
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Where are you keeping the plane?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
yes sir. it has a transponder indeed.
how about edenvale?
or brampton?
regardless, we will figure it out.
wish me good luck. my mission is to drive from my place 2.1hrs via car to where my partner and i will check the plane, do a run up and off we go. friday looks like the only good day in the next 10 days to make the voyage.
Sure. ? ? We could connect at Guelph Airpark sometime- unless you have a transponder…?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Maybe one day next warm season I can come see you in person with the Hanuman!?
I flew out of Guelph - paved runways and snow clearing. ? ?I have heard of XAirs on skis ((out in Winnipeg) so it’s not impossible. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
Did you use winter skiis or always have tires even in the winter?
I fly off grass so if there is snow, I don't I'll be able to take off and touch down on the grass.
I flew my XAir year round so no experience with preservatives etc. ? ?I turned my prop over several times as part of each pre start checklist. ?
AMEs and engine manufacturers recommend minimum of one hour flying per week at normal operating temps for best engine health. ?
Running engine on ground for 10 min every so often does more harm than good - promoting condensation, moisture buildup and corrosion. ??
Cheers. ?
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Justin Gregoris <jgregoris789@...> wrote:
?
I ended up buying the 2009 X air Hanuman with the 2nd generation Jabiru 2200 with 139hrs.
I did a leakdown test and all cylinders read the same. I put 80psi in and the result was 76psi. I guess that's pretty good.
I got a little air passing through to the crankcase vent but I think it was because the rings were starting to contract since we didn't do the test when it was really hot.
My intent was to perform the test immediately after a 45minute flight but then we saw some other rans s-7s and starting talking to the owners, so the temperature dropped to about warm, if that and not hot.
I feel more confident with this jabiru motor now.
Can you confirm that:
I should turn the propeller by hand in its regular direction to move oil to higher locations within the combustion chamber prior to starting it when it's cold outside or any time the engine has not been started for more than one week?
During cold wintertime when I am not flying for about 3-4 months, I should turn the propeller every 10 days ?
Some say don't touch anything during storage because by turning prop by hand will end up scuffing cylinder walls, or should I do it?
Also, if I don't fly for 3-4 months during cold wintertime, I spray LPS lubricant into all cylinders then put plugs back?
Then change oil in the spring once I start flying again?
With the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on a heavier than normal pitch setting, the plane took off in no time with two full grown gentlemen.
Lastly, any tips on how to cut and align and mount the propeller spinner, to finish off the aesthetics at the front?
Justin
The gentleman who had his Hanuman with 3/4 tank fuel and two adults also had a ground adjustable prop and oil cooler.put on his Jabiru 2200. Everything else was bone stock and simply followed manufacturers maintenance specifications. I'll try to ask more about
tomorrow when I see him.
Now onto other tips - engine leak down test: what is the best way to do this?
Fly the plane for about 30mins or so, land and then take one plug out,turn the prop by hand and start the process of dumping air inside the cylinder, using the double dial air regulator?
I think the manual calls for anything less than 60psi, from the initial 80psi to begin with is a fail...?
When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly. The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in
rate by comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if
it takes a thousand metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021 8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman would be
a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on 17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t! There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while? others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either how best to operate them properly to
last or ‘now we know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high ‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this the right engine to begin with’? Certainly
not on this airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ? ?Cowling had good cooling
design and never had any issue with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the aircraft that are in fact being run with the Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the cowling is different on each aircraft
- higher vs lower temperatures, etc.
Also, lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s that end up either mixing or using 91
or 93 MoGas.
I would like to agree with this because it would be very comforting but how do you explain all of the failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory. They know what they're doing after building
many for 30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it is just a fact that we have seen by the few operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg and was heading south with a brand-new engine with all of the latest modifications and it failed and had to land at our airfield, this was the latest generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours running
time the heads were shot and there were Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the reliability of any Jab engine is more affected by the quality of its installation than any other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for instance, is not
properly achieved, they fail with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie, and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru 2200 and I know that 4 of my friends which have those engine also are happy with this engine. Rotax are fine engine but there are lots of additional combonents to look after and maintain. If you plan to replace to rotax
then stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til:
[email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44 pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)? replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 3:25:45 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of "STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
>
kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:*
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> *To:*
[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on 10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again. Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware of this test - how does it work and what do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly concerned with ethanol content, but rather
>>> detonation differences between using MoGas shell 91 or 93 versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that is nowhere near me. I would have to drive
>>> 40km in a different direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to the grass field and put it in the Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of view, it is not surprising how Jabiru does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas to be used - not even any additives, which
>>> is another topic is like to introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93 MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a difference - am I missing something or is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91 or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam additive to preserve and offer some better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...? <mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
> done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
> do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
> sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it right;
> Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft - Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
Steve Rance
Geoffrey Gartshore
