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Hello everyone,
I found a W&W 12 here in Italy.
It has yet to arrive,but I saw that it has no needles,can anyone tell me what kind of needles it uses and what are the main differences between the 12 and the D9 apart from size.
I would also like to know,if there is a difference between 12 and D12,as there is between 9 and D9,and how I could tell if mine is a 12 or a D12.
Thank you
Regards
Mario
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Hi A quick search finds this
See page and 94-95 and (page 3 mentions, Interchangeable Needle List from the Smithsonian)?
I have hand wind UK versions WW8 made about 1882 and WW9 made about 1890s
I have gathered some info about modern needles but others here would be better to advise.
all the best
Hello everyone,
I found a W&W 12 here in Italy.
It has yet to arrive,but I saw that it has no needles,can anyone tell me what kind of needles it uses and what are the main differences between the 12 and the D9 apart from size.
I would also like to know,if there is a difference between 12 and D12,as there is between 9 and D9,and how I could tell if mine is a 12 or a D12.
Thank you
Regards
Mario
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Thank you John,
I learned from your links that it carries 130x1 needles.
Very interesting links in general...thanks.
A curiosity addressed to those who own a 12: is the stitching quality of the 12 superior to that of the 9 or is the 12 just a sturdier machine?
Is there really a 12 and a D12,or in the case of the 12 are they the same machine?
No. 9 and D9 have two different Hooks,even between 12 and D12 (if they were two different machines) are there such differences?
It is just a curiosity.
As soon as I get it I will post pictures of mine,which is very lived in and no longer has the decals,but it has little rust,and I think it will take a short time to get it up and running again.
Greetings
Mario
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Hi Mario,
The Wheeler & Wilson 12 and D12 use 128x1, 128x3, and 128x21 needles for cloth.? These are interchangeable but go with whatever is available there.? The main difference between the 9 and D9 is the bobbin case.? From the bed up they look the same but the 9 has an easily removable bobbin case.? Perhaps someone can add the difference between the 12 and D12.? I haven't had the chance to handle either or see any photos of the bobbin area.? I'd be curious to learn myself.
Jon
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Hi Jon,
I just saw your reply.
So the 12 also uses the needles you indicated.Good!Good to know!
Let's see if any 12 owners can tell us more about this machine.
Thanks Jon
Regards
Mario
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Mario -- I don't know if you've visited the VSS forum (the "Victorian
Sweatshop" site), but a quick search there for "wheeler wilson 12" shows
several owners, some of whom I know to be currently active. Might be
worth a visit.
I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of your machine!
paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)
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Hello Paul,
I will try to open a topic on VSS site to get some information.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Regards
Mario
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I too would like to see a pic of the bobbin/hook area on a WW 12. I have a WW whose decals are worn away, but which has a rotary bobbin case cap arrangement which is not like any other WW machine I¡¯ve ever seen. It might be a 12, or might be some other model. I¡¯ve attached a couple of pix.
A pic of the bobbin/hook arrangement on a definite 12 would clarify things greatly - one way or the other!
Needless to say, the machine makes a superb stitch.
David Young
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David - I seem to recall a discussion on VSS of a variant of a #12 which had that bobbin / hook arrangement. However it doesn¡¯t look like my #12.
I have both a #12 and a D-12, however it¡¯ll be a couple of days before am back home and can take some photos and work up a little comparison document to post.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 15, 2023, at 2:22 PM, David Young <Dhyoung1956@...> wrote:
I too would like to see a pic of the bobbin/hook area on a WW 12. I have a WW whose decals are worn away, but which has a rotary bobbin case cap arrangement which is not like any other WW machine I¡¯ve ever seen. It might be a 12, or might be some other model. I¡¯ve attached a couple of pix.
A pic of the bobbin/hook arrangement on a definite 12 would clarify things greatly - one way or the other!
Needless to say, the machine makes a superb stitch.
David Young
Attachments:
image0.jpeg: /g/Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines/attachment/4204/0
image2.jpeg: /g/Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines/attachment/4204/1
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Thank you for your contribution David,
there seems to be many types of 12 in circulation,however none Singer brand from what I understand.
It would be interesting to know how many declinations W&W made,and how they differed.
I attach pictures of mine,these are pictures I had taken by the seller,then as soon as it arrives I can take more if needed.
I really like the table on mine,original W&W.
John L.,can you tell what differences you notice between your 12 and d12?
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There is also this foot,which I have also seen on other 12.
Does anyone know what this presser foot with the small wheel is used for?
Regards
Mario
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Hello,
? the presser foot for the classic Singer 107w machine should fit the model 12 is my understanding.? The roller foot is a classic fix for people sewing stuff like vinyl for upholstery that don't have walking or compound feed machines.? I have a model 12 and wish I had more of them.
R/Mike
On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 02:43:12 AM PDT, Mario <mariogoa@...> wrote:
There is also this foot,which I have also seen on other 12. Does anyone know what this presser foot with the small wheel is used for? Regards Mario
Attachments:
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I got it..thanks Mike!
BR
Mario
?
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Mario & others interested in the comparison of the #12 & D-12 - in an attempt to understand and offer information on the differences between the two, I've put together detailed photos of my #12 and D-12 heads at the following locations:
#12?
D-12?
Chose to post these off-site so I could retain the original large file-size for hi-resolution photos. ?Frankly, was a bit surprised at the negligible difference I was able to find between the two heads. ?Made me question whether I actually do have one of each. ?The only differences I could find between the two heads: (1) stitch length mechanism - the two heads use a slightly different style of rotating block acting on the cam on the lower main shaft which controls the amount of movement of the feed dog rock shaft; (2) the inspection plates on top of the arm are different; (3) face-plates are different. ?None of these differences are material. ?In all other respects the heads appear identical to me.
Detail about the D-12. ?Serial Number - 90547. ?Patent dates showing on the slide/oil plate: May 1, 1883; Oct. 13, 1885; Nov. 24, 1885; Sep. 6, 1887; Jul 17, 1888; Jun. 11, 1889. ?"D-12" appears on the column. ?Interesting to note that the oil/slide plate (right of the needle) on the D-12 shows the number "12" below the serial number (whereas when you look at a D-9, you see "D-9" stamped on the oil/slide plate). ?The D-12 has been disassembled, cleaned and re-built.
Detail about the #12. ?Serial Number - 163355. ?Patent dates showing on the slide/oil plate:?Sep. 6, 1887; Jul 17, 1888; Jun. 11, 1889. ?"WW" is just barely visible on the column. ?No evidence of the number "12" is visible on the column. The oil-slide plate (right of the needle) on the #12 shows the number "12" below the serial number. ? A metal tag showing "L-12-3-1" is riveted to the bed in front of the column. (Note that the #12 head was dropped at some time. ?Face plate is cracked, and the head has a replacement hand-wheel from a D-9. ?The spool pin on the #12 is also a replacement from a D-9, so it appears smaller than the D-12.) ?The #12 head hasn't been disassembled and cleaned yet.?
Regards,
John
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Thank you John L. ,
you made an excellent comparison.
Mine arrives tomorrow and I will take some pictures and show my serial number,but from your pictures I already figured out that mine is a D-12.
I could tell by looking at the faceplates.
David's unusual 12 with the horizontal Bobbin has a type #12 faceplate.
I will still study your comparison in depth,but at the moment thank you of excellent contribution you have given us.
Best Regards
Mario
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Hello everyone, I apologize for the delay but due to a mix-up the D12 was delivered to me only today. My serial number is 58363. BR Mario 
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Hello,I found this Durkopp D12,I got it because I was very curious about it.I have yet to compare them well,for now I only noticed that the Durkopp seems to me slightly larger and heavier than the W&W (but to be verified).Who knows what needles it uses I couldn't find any information on this model.I don't have much time these days but it will be interesting to compare them.
BR
Mario
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Thanks for the photo links, John. I have a #12, well, most of one. ?i¡¯ve been slowly finding parts for It. And, I think i¡¯m down to things in the vicinity of the needle. Your pictures were helpful.?
On Sunday, March 19, 2023, John Lowrey via <john_p_lowrey= [email protected]> wrote: Mario & others interested in the comparison of the #12 & D-12 - in an attempt to understand and offer information on the differences between the two, I've put together detailed photos of my #12 and D-12 heads at the following locations:
#12?
D-12?
Chose to post these off-site so I could retain the original large file-size for hi-resolution photos.? Frankly, was a bit surprised at the negligible difference I was able to find between the two heads.? Made me question whether I actually do have one of each.? The only differences I could find between the two heads: (1) stitch length mechanism - the two heads use a slightly different style of rotating block acting on the cam on the lower main shaft which controls the amount of movement of the feed dog rock shaft; (2) the inspection plates on top of the arm are different; (3) face-plates are different.? None of these differences are material.? In all other respects the heads appear identical to me.
Detail about the D-12.? Serial Number - 90547.? Patent dates showing on the slide/oil plate: May 1, 1883; Oct. 13, 1885; Nov. 24, 1885; Sep. 6, 1887; Jul 17, 1888; Jun. 11, 1889. ?"D-12" appears on the column.? Interesting to note that the oil/slide plate (right of the needle) on the D-12 shows the number "12" below the serial number (whereas when you look at a D-9, you see "D-9" stamped on the oil/slide plate).? The D-12 has been disassembled, cleaned and re-built.
Detail about the #12.? Serial Number - 163355.? Patent dates showing on the slide/oil plate:?Sep. 6, 1887; Jul 17, 1888; Jun. 11, 1889. ?"WW" is just barely visible on the column.? No evidence of the number "12" is visible on the column. The oil-slide plate (right of the needle) on the #12 shows the number "12" below the serial number. ? A metal tag showing "L-12-3-1" is riveted to the bed in front of the column. (Note that the #12 head was dropped at some time.? Face plate is cracked, and the head has a replacement hand-wheel from a D-9.? The spool pin on the #12 is also a replacement from a D-9, so it appears smaller than the D-12.) ?The #12 head hasn't been disassembled and cleaned yet.?
Regards,
John
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David Young
