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Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op today and they
measured my W650 preload "sag."
They are not terribly familiar with older style
bikes, they are a sportbike/racer shop.
?
I have Hagon progressive front fork springs, and
Hagon 20 Kg. rear classic shocks.
I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the bike with
gear.
?
They suggested 30 mm front;? and 35 mm. rear
was right for sportbikes.
My results were: Front 50 mm.; and rear 27
mm.
?
Details were:
Front 170 mm. unloaded; 130 one bounce; 120 with
full load? = 50mm.
Rear? 160 mm. unloaded; 160 one bounce (note
no difference); 133 loaded?= 27 mm.
One bounce means bike loaded under its own weight,
no rider.
?
They suggested I use longer spacers in front, and
go back to the factory 18 Kg. shocks at the rear.?
Or see if I can adjust the Hagon rear shocks.?
They said the longest setting?turned out (which I think I'm on) had the
most preload, which I didn't realize, I thought it went the other way.? So
I guess I turn it clockwise from the bottom to shorten it to increase the
preload sag?? I'm confused.
?
Any comments from you folks?? I wonder if
sportbike measurements are applicable here, particularly when the W650 rear
shocks are so vertical by comparison.
?
Ruari McLennan
Victoria BC
?
?
|
Motorcycle Consumer News latest issue has an excellent article on
suspension setup. And there's a book called Total Control by Lee
Parks which has a very good chapter on this stuff. Both the W and my
Beemer need new suspenders, an expensive proposition. Sag for my bank
account!
Bill E.
|
Thanks, Bill. I was happy until I found I don't meet current standards.
But then, I don't anyway, so why worry?
I'll look for these and do some learning, & try not to obsess.
Ruari
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" <boxer12c@...> To: <W650riders@...> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: [W650riders] Re: Sag or Preload; & suspension Motorcycle Consumer News latest issue has an excellent article on
suspension setup. And there's a book called Total Control by Lee
Parks which has a very good chapter on this stuff. Both the W and my
Beemer need new suspenders, an expensive proposition. Sag for my bank
account!
Bill E.
Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery. ::
Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email delivery.
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
?
'Sitting on' sag should be approximately 1/4 of
full travel.
?
Pre-load is simply turning a ring to
pre-compress the spring so when you are moving the ring up to squash the
spring you are increasing pre-load. Bear in mind all you do is limit the low
speed springing. Once the spring starts to compress it compresses at the
normal rate irrespective of preload settings because springs compress
linearly.
Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op today and
they measured my W650 preload "sag."
They are not terribly familiar with older style
bikes, they are a sportbike/racer shop.
?
I have Hagon progressive front fork springs, and
Hagon 20 Kg. rear classic shocks.
I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the bike with
gear.
?
They suggested 30 mm front;? and 35 mm. rear
was right for sportbikes.
My results were: Front 50 mm.; and rear 27
mm.
?
Details were:
Front 170 mm. unloaded; 130 one bounce; 120 with
full load? = 50mm.
Rear? 160 mm. unloaded; 160 one bounce (note
no difference); 133 loaded?= 27 mm.
One bounce means bike loaded under its own
weight, no rider.
?
They suggested I use longer spacers in front, and
go back to the factory 18 Kg. shocks at the rear.?
Or see if I can adjust the Hagon rear
shocks.? They said the longest setting?turned out (which I think I'm
on) had the most preload, which I didn't realize, I thought it went the other
way.? So I guess I turn it clockwise from the bottom to shorten it to
increase the preload sag?? I'm confused.
?
Any comments from you folks?? I wonder if
sportbike measurements are applicable here, particularly when the W650 rear
shocks are so vertical by comparison.
?
Ruari McLennan
Victoria BC
?
?
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03/07/2007 10:02
|
How do I determine, "full travel?"
?
Ruari
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:57
AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Sag or Preload;
& suspension
?
'Sitting on' sag should be approximately 1/4
of full travel.
?
Pre-load is simply turning a ring to
pre-compress the spring so when you are moving the ring up to squash the
spring you are increasing pre-load. Bear in mind all you do is limit the low
speed springing. Once the spring starts to compress it compresses at the
normal rate irrespective of preload settings because springs compress
linearly.
Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op today and
they measured my W650 preload "sag."
They are not terribly familiar with older style
bikes, they are a sportbike/racer shop.
?
I have Hagon progressive front fork springs,
and Hagon 20 Kg. rear classic shocks.
I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the bike with
gear.
?
They suggested 30 mm front;? and 35 mm.
rear was right for sportbikes.
My results were: Front 50 mm.; and rear 27
mm.
?
Details were:
Front 170 mm. unloaded; 130 one bounce; 120
with full load? = 50mm.
Rear? 160 mm. unloaded; 160 one bounce
(note no difference); 133 loaded?= 27 mm.
One bounce means bike loaded under its own
weight, no rider.
?
They suggested I use longer spacers in front,
and go back to the factory 18 Kg. shocks at the rear.?
Or see if I can adjust the Hagon rear
shocks.? They said the longest setting?turned out (which I think
I'm on) had the most preload, which I didn't realize, I thought it went the
other way.? So I guess I turn it clockwise from the bottom to shorten
it to increase the preload sag?? I'm confused.
?
Any comments from you folks?? I wonder if
sportbike measurements are applicable here, particularly when the W650 rear
shocks are so vertical by comparison.
?
Ruari McLennan
Victoria
BC
|
OK, I called Dave Quinn re the rear shocks and found that the travel on the Hagon 33007s is 3.2", so total sag of 27 mm is actually 33% of that, bang on the money! (or close enough) But, I cannot find any info as to the front fork travel, which he says is usually in the service or owners manual specifications. One should look at 25-33% of that as a rough rule of thumb for sag, too, he says. Does anyone have any ideas? Ruari --- In W650riders@..., Ruari McLennan <r.mclennan@...> wrote:
How do I determine, "full travel?"
Ruari
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonhaddock@...
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Sag or Preload; & suspension
'Sitting on' sag should be approximately 1/4 of full travel.
Pre-load is simply turning a ring to pre-compress the spring so
when you are moving the ring up to squash the spring you are increasing pre-load. Bear in mind all you do is limit the low speed springing. Once the spring starts to compress it compresses at the normal rate irrespective of preload settings because springs compress linearly.
Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op today and they measured my
W650 preload "sag." They are not terribly familiar with older style bikes, they are a sportbike/racer shop.
I have Hagon progressive front fork springs, and Hagon 20 Kg.
rear classic shocks. I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the bike with gear.
They suggested 30 mm front; and 35 mm. rear was right for sportbikes. My results were: Front 50 mm.; and rear 27 mm.
Any comments from you folks? I wonder if sportbike
measurements are applicable here, particularly when the W650 rear shocks are so vertical by comparison.
Ruari McLennan
Victoria BC
|
Ruari
?
Manual sez 130mm - 5 1/8" front fork travel.
?
Dennis
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:05
AM
Subject: [W650riders] Re: Sag or Preload;
& suspension
OK, I called Dave Quinn re the rear shocks and found that the travel
on
the Hagon 33007s is 3.2", so total sag of 27 mm is actually 33% of
that,
bang on the money! (or close enough)
But, I cannot find any info as to
the front fork travel, which he
says is usually in the service or owners
manual specifications. One
should look at 25-33% of that as a rough rule
of thumb for sag, too,
he says.
Does anyone have any
ideas?
Ruari
--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com,
Ruari McLennan ...>
wrote:
>
> How do I
determine, "full travel?"
>
> Ruari
> ----- Original
Message -----
> From: Jonhaddock@...
> To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:57 AM
> Subject: Re:
[W650riders] Sag or Preload; & suspension
>
>
>
> 'Sitting on' sag should be approximately 1/4 of full travel.
>
> Pre-load is simply turning a ring to pre-compress the spring so
when you are moving the ring up to squash the spring you are
increasing pre-load. Bear in mind all you do is limit the low speed
springing. Once the spring starts to compress it compresses at the
normal rate irrespective of preload settings because springs compress
linearly.
>
>
> Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op
today and they measured my
W650 preload "sag."
> They are not
terribly familiar with older style bikes, they are
a sportbike/racer
shop.
>
> I have Hagon progressive front fork springs, and Hagon
20 Kg.
rear classic shocks.
> I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the
bike with gear.
>
> They suggested 30 mm front; and 35 mm. rear
was right for
sportbikes.
> My results were: Front 50 mm.; and rear
27 mm.
>
>
> Any comments from you folks? I wonder if
sportbike
measurements are applicable here, particularly when the W650
rear
shocks are so vertical by comparison.
>
> Ruari
McLennan
> Victoria BC
>
|
Thank you, Dennis! It says Wheel travel, that must be the same thing as fork travel! Never noticed, I was looking under the Suspension chapter. So at 50mm sag, I'm at 38.5% of full travel on the front. Perhaps a little looser than ideal. Don't know if it's worth tinkering with it, with longer than stock spacers, I don't think so - it feels fine to me. What do you think? I note also that rear wheel travel is listed in the manual at 105 mm, so my 27mm sag measurement is 26% of that, again in the ballpark, if not bang on there, with the Hagons. You'll recall it's about 33% of the listed shock travel. Thanks! Ruari --- In W650riders@..., "Dennis J. Guggemos" <djguggms@...> wrote:
Ruari
Manual sez 130mm - 5 1/8" front fork travel.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruari McLennan
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: [W650riders] Re: Sag or Preload; & suspension
OK, I called Dave Quinn re the rear shocks and found that the
travel on the Hagon 33007s is 3.2", so total sag of 27 mm is actually 33% of that, bang on the money! (or close enough)
But, I cannot find any info as to the front fork travel, which he
says is usually in the service or owners manual specifications. One should look at 25-33% of that as a rough rule of thumb for sag, too, he says.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Ruari
--- In W650riders@..., Ruari McLennan <r.mclennan@>
wrote:
>
> How do I determine, "full travel?"
>
> Ruari
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jonhaddock@
> To: W650riders@...
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [W650riders] Sag or Preload; & suspension
>
>
>
> 'Sitting on' sag should be approximately 1/4 of full travel.
>
> Pre-load is simply turning a ring to pre-compress the spring so
when you are moving the ring up to squash the spring you are
increasing pre-load. Bear in mind all you do is limit the low speed springing. Once the spring starts to compress it compresses at the normal rate irrespective of preload settings because springs compress linearly.
>
>
> Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op today and they measured my
W650 preload "sag."
> They are not terribly familiar with older style bikes, they are
a sportbike/racer shop.
>
> I have Hagon progressive front fork springs, and Hagon 20 Kg.
rear classic shocks.
> I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the bike with gear.
>
> They suggested 30 mm front; and 35 mm. rear was right for
sportbikes.
> My results were: Front 50 mm.; and rear 27 mm.
>
>
> Any comments from you folks? I wonder if sportbike
measurements are applicable here, particularly when the W650 rear
shocks are so vertical by comparison.
>
> Ruari McLennan
> Victoria BC
>
|
Actually, I'm as ignorant about suspension are you, and
blindly make changes as suggested by others, and am by no means suspension tech
savvy.
?
I'd say if it feels fine, go with that.
?
Dennis
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:32
AM
Subject: [W650riders] Re: Sag or Preload;
& suspension
Thank you, Dennis! It says Wheel travel, that must be the same thing
as
fork travel! Never noticed, I was looking under the Suspension
chapter.
So at 50mm sag, I'm at 38.5% of full travel on the front.
Perhaps a
little looser than ideal. Don't know if it's worth tinkering
with
it, with longer than stock spacers, I don't think so - it feels fine
to me. What do you think?
I note also that rear wheel travel is
listed in the manual at 105 mm,
so my 27mm sag measurement is 26% of that,
again in the ballpark, if
not bang on there, with the Hagons. You'll
recall it's about 33% of
the listed shock
travel.
Thanks!
Ruari
--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com,
"Dennis J. Guggemos"
.> wrote:
>
>
Ruari
>
> Manual sez 130mm - 5 1/8" front fork travel.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
Ruari McLennan
> To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:05 AM
> Subject: [W650riders]
Re: Sag or Preload; & suspension
>
>
> OK, I called
Dave Quinn re the rear shocks and found that the
travel
> on the
Hagon 33007s is 3.2", so total sag of 27 mm is actually
33% of
>
that, bang on the money! (or close enough)
>
> But, I cannot find
any info as to the front fork travel, which he
> says is usually in the
service or owners manual specifications.
One
> should look at
25-33% of that as a rough rule of thumb for sag,
too,
> he says.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Ruari
>
> --- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com,
Ruari McLennan >
> wrote:
> >
>
> How do I determine, "full travel?"
> >
> >
Ruari
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
Jonhaddock@
> > To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:57 AM
> > Subject: Re:
[W650riders] Sag or Preload; & suspension
> >
> >
> >
> > 'Sitting on' sag should be approximately 1/4 of
full travel.
> >
> > Pre-load is simply turning a ring to
pre-compress the spring so
> when you are moving the ring up to squash
the spring you are
> increasing pre-load. Bear in mind all you do is
limit the low
speed
> springing. Once the spring starts to compress
it compresses at
the
> normal rate irrespective of preload settings
because springs
compress
> linearly.
> >
> >
> > Hi, I popped by the motorcycle co-op today and they measured my
> W650 preload "sag."
> > They are not terribly familiar with
older style bikes, they are
> a sportbike/racer shop.
> >
> > I have Hagon progressive front fork springs, and Hagon 20 Kg.
> rear classic shocks.
> > I weigh 198 lbs dry and 217 on the
bike with gear.
> >
> > They suggested 30 mm front; and 35
mm. rear was right for
> sportbikes.
> > My results were:
Front 50 mm.; and rear 27 mm.
> >
>
> >
>
> Any comments from you folks? I wonder if sportbike
> measurements
are applicable here, particularly when the W650 rear
> shocks are so
vertical by comparison.
> >
> > Ruari McLennan
> >
Victoria BC
> >
>
|
