|
I understand, but that is life.? ? Gordon Gibby
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 2:33 PM < BretC@...> wrote: Is there any liability protection to protect small companies who manufacture open source ventilators?
The lack of liability protection may be a significant roadblock to many small companies.
Thank you.
Bret C
|
Sell them to families, community groups, and hospitals, with an explicit disclaimer of liability.
Cite the fact that the University of Florida has done all they could test this device—-if we are able to get an exemption from the FDA that will help also. Regulatory discussion on that tomorrow.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 31, 2020, at 14:42, Gordon Gibby via Groups.Io <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
? I understand, but that is life.? ? Gordon Gibby
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 2:33 PM < BretC@...> wrote: Is there any liability protection to protect small companies who manufacture open source ventilators?
The lack of liability protection may be a significant roadblock to many small companies.
Thank you.
Bret C
|
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 02:01 PM, Gordon Gibby wrote:
Cite the fact that the University of Florida has done all they could test this device
I propose Vent-a-Gator as a working name for the University of Florida version.
|
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 3:20:09 PM EDT, Doug W <dougwilner@...> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 02:01 PM, Gordon Gibby wrote:
Cite the fact that the University of Florida has done all they could test this device
I propose Vent-a-Gator as a working name for the University of Florida version.
|
I have pointed out the need for liability coverage at UF itself for volunteers --- and they are working on that -- may provide precendent for others dealing with their local hospital.
|
UPDATE -- as you see, I brought up the issue of liability coverage for volunteers like all of us, at least 4 days ago.
There are possible means of providing that -- having the UF team provide us with written guarantees that they will make the decision on what is used or not used and that they will take responsibility -- and signed by their legal representatives --- or by investigating certain immunity provision that exist in some laws I've been told about, regarding these kinds of volutneer developements ---
But it has not yet been addressed satisfactorily in my opinion.
I received one email today indicating volunteers would NOT be covered.
So I would have to suggest that each person proceed with caution.? For my part, I'm stepping back until this is dealt with.? ?I asked for it in writing several times.
More than one project has been killed by disorganization and the lawyers, and this may be another, unless somoeone moves fast.
Gordon
|
Have now spoken with one legal person at UF and they indicate that we are generally NOT getting good responses from the legal team that would be in charge of defending any actions arising out of the use of any such ventilator developed at UF.
The general consensus is that not only are any potential manufacturers completelly on their own, but that volunteers, while unlikely to be sued -- Have no protection and would likely have to find legal counsel FOR THEMSELVES --- unless shands / UF comes up with something.? ?And so far.....crickets.?
So I'm waiting on any call from any lawyer, but at the moment, I'm standing down, and will not release the press release to ARRL that I had in the works.? ? I will not release any further code or designs or printed circuit boards to shands.? ?I paid $1000 to have a set of boards made on two continents....and I may just have to eat that since I can't give them the boards for fear of suit as a result.
this is a ridiculous outcome, which should have been headed off days ago but unfortunately was not.? ? Our legal system has likely killed many many people (and of course also saved many people as well, no doubt!)? but this looks like one going to a failure.
Sorry folks.? ?I wanted you to know as soon as I found out anything and this morning I got an email indicating no coverage.
Gordon Gibby
|
Nail in the coffin update.
Just heard back from my former employer, the Chairman of the Dept. of Anesthesiology.? ?He says basically that the lawyers are NOT going to support this effort even for use on patients at the University of Florida.? ?He said they said "build two models" but they do not plan on actuallly using them.
So..... I think this is dead.? ? People can continue to develop but I would release any intellectual property under some sort of absolute immunity -- and I'm not smart enough to lawyer up that kind of language.... you can't even be certain that the people who USE your product will be in sufficient financial shape to even still EXIST to give you legal team for your defense.
So the united states legal system appears to have killed this effort through and through.? ?Perhaps the information will be of some benefit but as for me and for others I would indicate that we cannot give persmission to anyone to utllize the intellectual property, designs, displays, movies, photos, that we have created.? ?And thus if they do we can point that we refused to give permission.
Maybe someone with legal smarts can come up with a BETTER OUTCOME than that......I sincerely hope they step up to the plate now.??
Gordon
|
BETTER NEWS.
I just go off the phone with Dan D'Alesio who is a real lawyer who does real defense of the University of Florida.? ?
He was VERY helpful, very honest.? ?20 years with the JAG (armed forces legal) and approx 20 years with UF?
There is a way that we can "cover" a modest number of key people by having them fill out a form or two and become "volunteers" for the University of Floirda -- then their work will be defended by, any legal costs, any judgements paid by -- the university of florida, which has HUGE defense capability under the PREP act which has successfully been used before (gives Federal immunity) and also through good samaritan and also through Univresity of Florida sovereign immunity.? ?You can't be sued individually,, they have to sue the Board of Trustees of Florida -- and you will merely need to help their lawyers.??
That is very good news.
Limitation:? ?It does not protect you for OTHERS reading here to see what you ahve come up with -- so I suggest that we may need to state plainly that we do NOT give permisson for anyone to use anything we create here -- they are completely on their own, we m\ake NO warranty -- brighter minds may need to address that.....it appears to be outside the scope of jurisdiction of Dan D'Alesio as an officer of the university of Florida.? ?If we can't get around that -- we can find a way for you to communicate ONLY with each other and with the University of Florida.
Folks, I'm not good with names..... Here are thepeopel that *I* recognize as needing to consider becoming a "volunteer" for the University of Florida to contineu-- IF YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING AND I MISS YOUR NAME PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE AND INSTEAD IMMEDIATELY REPLY HERE AND EXPLAIN HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE INVOLVED.? ? I am going to submit an initial list of "prospective volunters" to Mr. D'Aleasio in TEN MINUTES? so please reply quickly -- or we may be able to add you later.
Bob?? KD8CGH -- 3d printed valves
Dr William Schmidt -- flow designs
Ashhar Farhan -- schematic printed circuit board, software
Marcelo Veranda -- code!!!!
Jack Purdum -- code!!!!
Shane Kent -- updated designs
Dominick Textor -- valves
I don't think we can include MANUFACTURERS creating their own product -- instead we provide them a way forward by getting a EUA that they can "piggyback" with their own "me, too!" EUA using all of this work.
whom else to be added to those to be approached????
THANKS?
Gordon Gibby?
|
OK,? I provided the list above (and I added SHANE KENT and SQUAGLE (I don't even know your name) with as many addresses as I could figure out from ham radio callsign registrations).? ??
I sent it to the lawyer? Dan D'Alesio, Tim Morey MD? -- the Chairman of department of anestheisolgoy at UF -- knows me well had just talked to me on the phone Nik Gravenstein MD -- good doc also pushing for this and several on the Team at UF..... I'm trying to get Legal to have the forms for people to officially volunteer?so they can be COVERED BY UNIVERSITY OF FLORDA?LIABILTIY?FOR USE OF THEIR WORK SPECIFICALLY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA and the FDA EUA application.
we'll see how far we get......Mr. D'Alesio was very supportive.? ?A breath of fresh air. Gordon
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 1:12 PM Gordon Gibby via <docvacuumtubes= [email protected]> wrote: BETTER NEWS.
I just go off the phone with Dan D'Alesio who is a real lawyer who does real defense of the University of Florida.? ?
He was VERY helpful, very honest.? ?20 years with the JAG (armed forces legal) and approx 20 years with UF?
There is a way that we can "cover" a modest number of key people by having them fill out a form or two and become "volunteers" for the University of Floirda -- then their work will be defended by, any legal costs, any judgements paid by -- the university of florida, which has HUGE defense capability under the PREP act which has successfully been used before (gives Federal immunity) and also through good samaritan and also through Univresity of Florida sovereign immunity.? ?You can't be sued individually,, they have to sue the Board of Trustees of Florida -- and you will merely need to help their lawyers.??
That is very good news.
Limitation:? ?It does not protect you for OTHERS reading here to see what you ahve come up with -- so I suggest that we may need to state plainly that we do NOT give permisson for anyone to use anything we create here -- they are completely on their own, we m\ake NO warranty -- brighter minds may need to address that.....it appears to be outside the scope of jurisdiction of Dan D'Alesio as an officer of the university of Florida.? ?If we can't get around that -- we can find a way for you to communicate ONLY with each other and with the University of Florida.
Folks, I'm not good with names..... Here are thepeopel that *I* recognize as needing to consider becoming a "volunteer" for the University of Florida to contineu-- IF YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING AND I MISS YOUR NAME PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE AND INSTEAD IMMEDIATELY REPLY HERE AND EXPLAIN HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE INVOLVED.? ? I am going to submit an initial list of "prospective volunters" to Mr. D'Aleasio in TEN MINUTES? so please reply quickly -- or we may be able to add you later.
Bob?? KD8CGH -- 3d printed valves
Dr William Schmidt -- flow designs
Ashhar Farhan -- schematic printed circuit board, software
Marcelo Veranda -- code!!!!
Jack Purdum -- code!!!!
Shane Kent -- updated designs
Dominick Textor -- valves
I don't think we can include MANUFACTURERS creating their own product -- instead we provide them a way forward by getting a EUA that they can "piggyback" with their own "me, too!" EUA using all of this work.
whom else to be added to those to be approached????
THANKS?
Gordon Gibby?
|
Gordon is right, and it is a shame that it perhaps have to come to this.. Too darn many tort lawyers? out there in the US? and the reality is that they will go after everyone that have even been remotely associated with a project like this if you have any assets.? Furthermore, it does not even have to be your design/product that caused the problem in the first place,? as long as there are assets to go after.? You will still be sued and have to defend yourself at your own cost.? ? ?
?
Rolf K9DZT?
|
So I've submitted 8 of or so you to the legal team at UF and I'm hopeful that you will end up filling out some sort of FORM to officially be recongized as a volunteer for UF.? That will allow you complete protection for what you do for them -- and if we are able to get the EUA submitted to the FDA,, we face about a 1-week period of back-and-forth to get the EUA approved (if we do).? ?What we are doing is INFINITELY more complicated than a simple device whose successful applicants have been coaching us (thaNK YOU!)? ??
I'm tryng to get that legal protection in overnight.? ?
Who knows if I will be successful?? ?
The goal here is to get at least an EUA approved -- and then other people? can point to that and use it for their applications for mmuch larger manufacturing efforts -- citing everything in that application to their benefit and avoiding them having to do all that work.? ?Some of you are experts and are in command of large companies and have your own liability protection -- and have already come up with better designs that will be EASIER to get through the FDA than what we little folks at UF have been able to do so far.? ? ? This should benefit you greeatly -- but we don't have a lot of time to waste.
The KNOWLEDGE BASE will be useful to others even though we likely will have to refuse to give any formal prermission for any use whatsoever to protect ourselves.? ?It is just a knowledge presentation.?
It turns out that the University of Florida has legal language on their CSSALT page? expressly for that purpose (
So knowledge can be made available to the rest of the world through THAT page I believe and that may insulate you in some way from private suits against you, by someone in some other nation where a company has benefited from the knowledge dispersed on the UF page.
Gordon
|
I understand people's reluctance to carry potential liability. I do not share the same point of view that massive legal pursuit after people like us will ensue in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic. Courts and judges have been installed by society for a good reason, which is to apply specific scrutiny?of legal claims, even before trial. If this is not clear yet, we are facing the first battle of a long war. The social (and legal) standards that we have been used to, over the last 100 years will?have to change in the face of a global challenge, that is (likely) here to last for a long time. COVID-19 is not the last pandemic that we will see in the foreseeable?future.
If there is any good coming out of this situation, it is the cooperation and sharing of pertinent information?and ideas that are meant to alleviate?human suffering across?the globe. This is the "golden hour" of Open Source. By Open Source, I means information and ideas that a contributed by individuals and organizations with the explicit intent of solving problems with benevolent intent (not for monetary profit). Since viruses do not recognize national boundaries there is no law that can govern their behavior. We are looking at a new type of world war, which transcends legal and political boundaries. Unlike in 1918-1920 influenza pandemic we live in a globalized world where until the virus is completely eradicated everywhere in the world, no one, anywhere on our globe will be safe. It is essential for all of us to do our best to facilitate the recovery of all infected persons in order to achieve the effect of "herd immunity". Saving the life of an infected person, thereby?pays off twice: once when their life is saved and second when they join (upon recovery) the circle of immunized "herd members". This is what drives me, and I am sure that many people who participate in this group, to get involved in solution development.
I am not going to try to convince anyone about their "immunity from prosecution". However, let me remind you that remaining passive under the current situation may not save you, your family members, or your neighbors from dying from the decease. Liability protection never saved anyone from dying. It is up to every person to do their own reckoning, whether the risk of sharing their ideas in public is greater than keeping their ideas in their pocket and risk their own death due to the healthcare system collapsing under overwhelming?load.
In my opinion, we must be very prudent in making every effort to insure that our shared ideas will be safe and as close to the ISO standards of life support systems. This can be achieved by applying the common Open Source practice of peer and expert review. Over the decades that open source has been practiced, it has proven itself very effective in all areas that it has been applied. The main challenge is to expedite forward progress as much possible, while applying continuous?improvements on the go. Open information sharing is key to such effort and I believe that this group (and others) are doing the right thing.
Thanks you for listening. --Ron N7FTZ?
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:32 AM Rolf Ekstrand < rekstrand@...> wrote: Gordon is right, and it is a shame that it perhaps have to come to this.. Too darn many tort lawyers? out there in the US? and the reality is that they will go after everyone that have even been remotely associated with a project like this if you have any assets.? Furthermore, it does not even have to be your design/product that caused the problem in the first place,? as long as there are assets to go after.? You will still be sued and have to defend yourself at your own cost.? ? ?
?
Rolf K9DZT?
|
Despite the "good news" UF lawyers need to check how GPL-3 License fits in this project.
Also, the code I wrote is, so far, GPL-3. As a Copywriter owner for most of the code, I guess, I can change the license moving forward.
However, the project may loose the appealing for becoming private as well as its meaning for providing help for anywhere in the world.
BTW: My name was misspelled in the list: the correct is Marcelo Varanda (with "A" rather than Veranda).
Thanks,
MV
|
Dear Members
I so agree with Dr Flywheel's point of view. As you know, everyone in the world is impatiently waiting for their intellectual people to solve this problem or get out of it with the minimum of loss
Le lundi 6 avril 2020 à 21:07:56 UTC+2, Dr. Flywheel <dr.flywheel@...> a écrit :
I understand people's reluctance to carry potential liability. I do not share the same point of view that massive legal pursuit after people like us will ensue in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic. Courts and judges have been installed by society for a good reason, which is to apply specific scrutiny?of legal claims, even before trial. If this is not clear yet, we are facing the first battle of a long war. The social (and legal) standards that we have been used to, over the last 100 years will?have to change in the face of a global challenge, that is (likely) here to last for a long time. COVID-19 is not the last pandemic that we will see in the foreseeable?future.
If there is any good coming out of this situation, it is the cooperation and sharing of pertinent information?and ideas that are meant to alleviate?human suffering across?the globe. This is the "golden hour" of Open Source. By Open Source, I means information and ideas that a contributed by individuals and organizations with the explicit intent of solving problems with benevolent intent (not for monetary profit). Since viruses do not recognize national boundaries there is no law that can govern their behavior. We are looking at a new type of world war, which transcends legal and political boundaries. Unlike in 1918-1920 influenza pandemic we live in a globalized world where until the virus is completely eradicated everywhere in the world, no one, anywhere on our globe will be safe. It is essential for all of us to do our best to facilitate the recovery of all infected persons in order to achieve the effect of "herd immunity". Saving the life of an infected person, thereby?pays off twice: once when their life is saved and second when they join (upon recovery) the circle of immunized "herd members". This is what drives me, and I am sure that many people who participate in this group, to get involved in solution development.
I am not going to try to convince anyone about their "immunity from prosecution". However, let me remind you that remaining passive under the current situation may not save you, your family members, or your neighbors from dying from the decease. Liability protection never saved anyone from dying. It is up to every person to do their own reckoning, whether the risk of sharing their ideas in public is greater than keeping their ideas in their pocket and risk their own death due to the healthcare system collapsing under overwhelming?load.
In my opinion, we must be very prudent in making every effort to insure that our shared ideas will be safe and as close to the ISO standards of life support systems. This can be achieved by applying the common Open Source practice of peer and expert review. Over the decades that open source has been practiced, it has proven itself very effective in all areas that it has been applied. The main challenge is to expedite forward progress as much possible, while applying continuous?improvements on the go. Open information sharing is key to such effort and I believe that this group (and others) are doing the right thing.
Thanks you for listening. --Ron N7FTZ?
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:32 AM Rolf Ekstrand < rekstrand@...> wrote: Gordon is right, and it is a shame that it perhaps have to come to this.. Too darn many tort lawyers? out there in the US? and the reality is that they will go after everyone that have even been remotely associated with a project like this if you have any assets.? Furthermore, it does not even have to be your design/product that caused the problem in the first place,? as long as there are assets to go after.? You will still be sued and have to defend yourself at your own cost.? ? ?
?
Rolf K9DZT?
--
Othmane
|
If there are those here who wish to perhaps take out long-term tail coverage for those of us, who are at risk here— in the amount of about $10 million each with an aggregate exceeding $100 million,, and fund that—- that would be fantastic! ?Otherwise it is the old thing of the chicken and pig discussing making gifts towards breakfast.....
Marcelo, I would suggest that you look for a better set of language that protects you, ? You might want to add some thing that you give no permission whatsoever to anyone to use your code, and that any such risk is totally and completely at their own hazard, and that search warning must be copied with any copies that are made. ?Or something. ??
Having been sued for something that I didn’t do at all, is a part of my life I would not like to go through again. ??
The lawyers created this mess. ? Let them solve it. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 6, 2020, at 15:46, Othmane Abdelkhalek via groups.io <othmane_elec@...> wrote:
? Dear Members
I so agree with Dr Flywheel's point of view. As you know, everyone in the world is impatiently waiting for their intellectual people to solve this problem or get out of it with the minimum of loss
Le lundi 6 avril 2020 à 21:07:56 UTC+2, Dr. Flywheel <dr.flywheel@...> a écrit :
I understand people's reluctance to carry potential liability. I do not share the same point of view that massive legal pursuit after people like us will ensue in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic. Courts and judges have been installed by society for a good reason, which is to apply specific scrutiny?of legal claims, even before trial. If this is not clear yet, we are facing the first battle of a long war. The social (and legal) standards that we have been used to, over the last 100 years will?have to change in the face of a global challenge, that is (likely) here to last for a long time. COVID-19 is not the last pandemic that we will see in the foreseeable?future.
If there is any good coming out of this situation, it is the cooperation and sharing of pertinent information?and ideas that are meant to alleviate?human suffering across?the globe. This is the "golden hour" of Open Source. By Open Source, I means information and ideas that a contributed by individuals and organizations with the explicit intent of solving problems with benevolent intent (not for monetary profit). Since viruses do not recognize national boundaries there is no law that can govern their behavior. We are looking at a new type of world war, which transcends legal and political boundaries. Unlike in 1918-1920 influenza pandemic we live in a globalized world where until the virus is completely eradicated everywhere in the world, no one, anywhere on our globe will be safe. It is essential for all of us to do our best to facilitate the recovery of all infected persons in order to achieve the effect of "herd immunity". Saving the life of an infected person, thereby?pays off twice: once when their life is saved and second when they join (upon recovery) the circle of immunized "herd members". This is what drives me, and I am sure that many people who participate in this group, to get involved in solution development.
I am not going to try to convince anyone about their "immunity from prosecution". However, let me remind you that remaining passive under the current situation may not save you, your family members, or your neighbors from dying from the decease. Liability protection never saved anyone from dying. It is up to every person to do their own reckoning, whether the risk of sharing their ideas in public is greater than keeping their ideas in their pocket and risk their own death due to the healthcare system collapsing under overwhelming?load.
In my opinion, we must be very prudent in making every effort to insure that our shared ideas will be safe and as close to the ISO standards of life support systems. This can be achieved by applying the common Open Source practice of peer and expert review. Over the decades that open source has been practiced, it has proven itself very effective in all areas that it has been applied. The main challenge is to expedite forward progress as much possible, while applying continuous?improvements on the go. Open information sharing is key to such effort and I believe that this group (and others) are doing the right thing.
Thanks you for listening. --Ron N7FTZ?
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:32 AM Rolf Ekstrand < rekstrand@...> wrote: Gordon is right, and it is a shame that it perhaps have to come to this.. Too darn many tort lawyers? out there in the US? and the reality is that they will go after everyone that have even been remotely associated with a project like this if you have any assets.? Furthermore, it does not even have to be your design/product that caused the problem in the first place,? as long as there are assets to go after.? You will still be sued and have to defend yourself at your own cost.? ? ?
?
Rolf K9DZT?
-- Othmane
<1584641561060blob.jpg>
|
I hope that an UF lawyer could review the GPL-3 and, if any amendment would become necessary, he/she would provide the wording for us.
|
How sad is it that we even have to think about such BS in a time of crisis. Is it really going to come to a hospital person telling a patient: "These are your options: 1) sign this legal document that forbids you or anyone else from any and all legal action against and indemnifies everyone associated with this ventilator, or 2) die."
It's just sad...
Jack, W8TEE
On Monday, April 6, 2020, 4:10:09 PM EDT, Marcelo Varanda via groups.io <mv_email@...> wrote:
I hope that an UF lawyer could review the GPL-3 and, if any amendment would become necessary, he/she would provide the wording for us.
|
Well…. Yikes. ? I know there are ways around this.? I’ll ask my wife.? She know way more about it that what she wants to admit… and she has a hoard of lawyers working for her that might be able to give a little advice under their breath.? I’m guessing there is a tomb of writing that can be attached to the project that protects the inventor community.? Bringing it into the public sector probably indemnifies everyone because once it is in the public domain, no one is technically responsible for it. ? As a side job, I too work for a university (University of Texas as an instructor) and the lawyers always seem able to clear up this baloney when it makes the university a lot of money.? It seems like an inconvenience when it doesn’t.? I wonder where on the spectrum they see this. ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner – Operator Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: Like us on Facebook! ? Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Gibby
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 1:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [VentilatorDevelopers] Liability protection ? So I've submitted 8 of or so you to the legal team at UF and I'm hopeful that you will end up filling out some sort of FORM to officially be recongized as a volunteer for UF.? That will allow you complete protection for what you do for them -- and if we are able to get the EUA submitted to the FDA,, we face about a 1-week period of back-and-forth to get the EUA approved (if we do).? ?What we are doing is INFINITELY more complicated than a simple device whose successful applicants have been coaching us (thaNK YOU!)? ??
I'm tryng to get that legal protection in overnight.? ?
Who knows if I will be successful?? ?
The goal here is to get at least an EUA approved -- and then other people? can point to that and use it for their applications for mmuch larger manufacturing efforts -- citing everything in that application to their benefit and avoiding them having to do all that work.? ?Some of you are experts and are in command of large companies and have your own liability protection -- and have already come up with better designs that will be EASIER to get through the FDA than what we little folks at UF have been able to do so far.? ? ? This should benefit you greeatly -- but we don't have a lot of time to waste.
The KNOWLEDGE BASE will be useful to others even though we likely will have to refuse to give any formal prermission for any use whatsoever to protect ourselves.? ?It is just a knowledge presentation.?
It turns out that the University of Florida has legal language on their CSSALT page? expressly for that purpose (
So knowledge can be made available to the rest of the world through THAT page I believe and that may insulate you in some way from private suits against you, by someone in some other nation where a company has benefited from the knowledge dispersed on the UF page.
Gordon
|
In a phone conversation that lasted less than 30 seconds, I was told that you will never get sued for a design… particularly if it is open to the public (designed in the public). ??What we would get sued for is manufacturing a product that does not operate up to spec…and that is in the beholders eyes.? So the insulation is the manufacturer (because the manufacturer may not have implemented the design properly).? I guess that all makes sense. ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner – Operator Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: Like us on Facebook! ? Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of K9HZ
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 3:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [VentilatorDevelopers] Liability protection? Well…. Yikes. ? I know there are ways around this.? I’ll ask my wife.? She know way more about it that what she wants to admit… and she has a hoard of lawyers working for her that might be able to give a little advice under their breath.? I’m guessing there is a tomb of writing that can be attached to the project that protects the inventor community.? Bringing it into the public sector probably indemnifies everyone because once it is in the public domain, no one is technically responsible for it. ? As a side job, I too work for a university (University of Texas as an instructor) and the lawyers always seem able to clear up this baloney when it makes the university a lot of money.? It seems like an inconvenience when it doesn’t.? I wonder where on the spectrum they see this. ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner – Operator Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: Like us on Facebook! ? Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Gibby
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 1:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [VentilatorDevelopers] Liability protection ? So I've submitted 8 of or so you to the legal team at UF and I'm hopeful that you will end up filling out some sort of FORM to officially be recongized as a volunteer for UF.? That will allow you complete protection for what you do for them -- and if we are able to get the EUA submitted to the FDA,, we face about a 1-week period of back-and-forth to get the EUA approved (if we do).? ?What we are doing is INFINITELY more complicated than a simple device whose successful applicants have been coaching us (thaNK YOU!)? ??
I'm tryng to get that legal protection in overnight.? ?
Who knows if I will be successful?? ?
The goal here is to get at least an EUA approved -- and then other people? can point to that and use it for their applications for mmuch larger manufacturing efforts -- citing everything in that application to their benefit and avoiding them having to do all that work.? ?Some of you are experts and are in command of large companies and have your own liability protection -- and have already come up with better designs that will be EASIER to get through the FDA than what we little folks at UF have been able to do so far.? ? ? This should benefit you greeatly -- but we don't have a lot of time to waste.
The KNOWLEDGE BASE will be useful to others even though we likely will have to refuse to give any formal prermission for any use whatsoever to protect ourselves.? ?It is just a knowledge presentation.?
It turns out that the University of Florida has legal language on their CSSALT page? expressly for that purpose (
So knowledge can be made available to the rest of the world through THAT page I believe and that may insulate you in some way from private suits against you, by someone in some other nation where a company has benefited from the knowledge dispersed on the UF page.
Gordon
|
jjpurdum
Marcelo Varanda