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Re: High cycle Rainbird and passive valve testing

 

Gordon
?? I can update the 4/11 doc (post 1432).
?????? Bob Benedict


Re: FDA Approval

 

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Not determined yet. ? If you are reading Ventilator developers, you may have noted that there is ANOTHER person with over 1 million cycles on these valves.....




On Apr 11, 2020, at 22:29, Erich Schulz <erichbschulz@...> wrote:

?
Thanks Gordon! - I've amended my text in

<Screenshot from 2020-04-12 12-23-12.png>

By the way it just occurred to me that if your flow sensor is bidirectional and was placed at the Y connect it would be able to sense both inspiration and expiratory flow. This would really enhance the safety by allowing the controller to detect a failure of many components (notably the pneumatic inspiration valve.

Is this where you were planning on putting the flow sensor?


Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 12:02, Erich Schulz via <erichbschulz=[email protected]> wrote:
Gordon do you mind if I include you picture in ?

Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 11:28, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Pressure lines are now brought out. ? Only thing left is a power connector and a connector for the control of the valves.

tomorrow I return to working on software and Marcello says it should be easy to add whatever limits are needed!!


Re: FDA Approval

 

Thanks Gordon! - I've amended my text in

Screenshot from 2020-04-12 12-23-12.png
By the way it just occurred to me that if your flow sensor is bidirectional and was placed at the Y connect it would be able to sense both inspiration and expiratory flow. This would really enhance the safety by allowing the controller to detect a failure of many components (notably the pneumatic inspiration valve.

Is this where you were planning on putting the flow sensor?


Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 12:02, Erich Schulz via <erichbschulz=[email protected]> wrote:
Gordon do you mind if I include you picture in ?

Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 11:28, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Pressure lines are now brought out. ? Only thing left is a power connector and a connector for the control of the valves.

tomorrow I return to working on software and Marcello says it should be easy to add whatever limits are needed!!


Re: High cycle Rainbird and passive valve testing

 

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Wow!! ?Can you document your testing with a photo or so, formal right up, and send to us?


On Apr 11, 2020, at 22:17, KD8CGH <rkayakr@...> wrote:

?Hit 1,000,000 cycles this evening. The two Rainbirds are still opening and closing every 0.5 second.
I replaced the PANDApeep and my designed PEEP with two copies of the UF designed PEEP that I 3D printed here from their geometry files. They have 75,000 cycles on them.
????????? Bob Benedict?? KD8CGH.


Re: High cycle Rainbird and passive valve testing

 

Hit 1,000,000 cycles this evening. The two Rainbirds are still opening and closing every 0.5 second.
I replaced the PANDApeep and my designed PEEP with two copies of the UF designed PEEP that I 3D printed here from their geometry files. They have 75,000 cycles on them.
????????? Bob Benedict?? KD8CGH.


Re: FDA Approval

 

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Sure, you¡¯re welcome to, but you might want to note that your document seems unaware that we have over 1 million test cycles on this sprinkler kind of valve.....




On Apr 11, 2020, at 22:02, Erich Schulz <erichbschulz@...> wrote:

?
Gordon do you mind if I include you picture in ?

Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 11:28, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Pressure lines are now brought out. ? Only thing left is a power connector and a connector for the control of the valves.

tomorrow I return to working on software and Marcello says it should be easy to add whatever limits are needed!!


Re: FDA Approval

 

Gordon do you mind if I include you picture in ?

Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 11:28, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Pressure lines are now brought out. ? Only thing left is a power connector and a connector for the control of the valves.

tomorrow I return to working on software and Marcello says it should be easy to add whatever limits are needed!!


Re: P Sensor mounting

 

I used JB Weld KwikWELD to seal the pressure sensor wires on my valve test system. I just brought them through a hole in the cap.

Early in my career I had the task of trouble shooting a rubber injection molding machine that shot 44 lb. slugs of rubber to make truck tire retread rings. There were no temperature sensors in the rubber flow because "it can't be done". I fabbed some thermocouples on my kitchen table held together with JB weld and used them. They held at 25,000 psi and gave me the data I needed to solve the production problem. Eventually the carbon black loaded rubber flow eroded the thermocouple junction wires away, but the JB Weld never failed.

?????? Bob Benedict?? KD8CGH


Re: FDA Approval

 

Pressure lines are now brought out. ? Only thing left is a power connector and a connector for the control of the valves.

tomorrow I return to working on software and Marcello says it should be easy to add whatever limits are needed!!


zoom meeting very soon on inter-group collaboration

 

Hi folk,

some people have reached out to me and invited to me to a zoom meeting - I don't know them, but they seem good hearted.

If you're interested in facilitating inter-group collaboration please join!?

Hey Jonas!! Topic: Ventilation Team Meeting (all welcome)
Time: Apr 11, 2020 08:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Join Zoom Meeting:

Meeting ID: 210 092 599
Password: 637594
One tap mobile:
+19292056099,,210092599#,,#,637594# US (New York)
+12532158782,,210092599#,,#,637594# US
Dial by your location:
? ? ? ? +1 929 205 6099 US (New York)
? ? ? ? +1 253 215 8782 US
? ? ? ? +1 301 715 8592 US
? ? ? ? +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
? ? ? ? +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston)
? ? ? ? +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose)
Meeting ID: 210 092 599
Password: 637594
Find your local number:

I will be keep notes

Erich Schulz,?mbbs, mba, fanzca
0410 277 408


Re: #ExhalationValve #ExhalationValve

 

My butyl tube valve clocked 350k today.? I pulled it apart to inspect it and there is not much noticeable damage.? Very similar to 200k inspection.??

I plan to test this to failure but I think the key thing I've learned is reducing the amount of lateral and circumferential stretch seemed to help the most.?

I did this by adding a grate or cap at the end of the 1" PVC tube.? See 3rd picture.? This was 3d printed but could be manufactured with a drill.? It was just faster for me to print it.?

I could still easily breath this the system with this installed.?

I hope this helps.

AJ


Re: FDA Approval

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

?

working on a quick way to seal BMP280, derivation of one of the plumbing solutions someone posted here, thanks!


?

?


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 1:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [VentilatorDevelopers] FDA Approval
?
[External Email]
FIRST TRY at a complete physical implementation of the controller.

1.? I don't have wires yet for controlling the valves brought out -- CB mic connector may work and not expose users to any voltage at all.
2.? I don't have the air pressure lines brought out.
3.? I don't have a connection yet for the MEDICALLY QUALIFIED power supplies I have!? ?So I'm running off battery in this demo
4.? I glued on the nipple on a bmp280....hope to heck that I didn't get any glue on the bmp!!!!? ?The glue took wAY longer to solidify thaN I was Planning
5.? Hole is cut to allow us to switch to 20x4, but at this instant a bezel for 16x2
6.? Positioning is set to allow us to switch to Asher board if we get some made (don't have any assembled yet)

Pushbuttons turn out to be more proof against waater than I expected because of their design and I added some dielectric grease to further reduce entrance.
The electrical box is THICK and that turns out to cause some problems....but at least for the first time I don't have wires MOVING aall the time..

This will get better, but it is a start.
Now i need the softare to get close to fnished!
THANKS, folks!!

Gordon


Re: Anyone working on solutions that work on 12VDC and facilities without compressed air?

 
Edited

Thanks Erich , I realise the priority for now is to complete the basic system , give it a version number and publish it with a complete parts , assembly and operating guide so third world countries can utilise it for emergency backups

as you mentioned I am also still trying to fathom how patient sensing and machine response can be used to obtain a precision delivery of life support , including a better failsafe system for confirming compliance.

If a patient is on a ventilator for 7 - 20 Days then muscle wasting could occur and the savant in me says there could be an impact on the nervous system and other subtle physiological damage , I don¡¯t even understand how to restablish a complete integration of the nervous system after it has been decoupled by artificial life support for a period of time , whether the patient is fully conscious and breathing inside a NIV Hood or worse , completely sedated and physically / subconsciously disorientated.

maybe one day there will be ventilators that use subtle electrical impulses to exercise muscles while the patient is under sedation , and even replicate spinal message transmission to maintain activity of nerves and organs , or even influence mood and hormones to elevate recovery prospects.


Re: FINISHING: Capturing Baselines, and Adjusting Alarms

 

I agree that beginners may get intimidated to add features in the codebase without watching videos and asking question.
However, any intermediate embedded SW developer would understand and be able to make changes easily.

About having many source files, that is the way professional SW code is designed and organized. Modular, well defined interface and abstraction.
Yet that multi-file implementation uses less memory that the "simple" code. Its main loop takes 180 microseconds or less to be processed where the other takes almost a second.

As the number of features increases (alarms, sensors etc)? the other code will become unreadable/unmanageable and unsafe. There will be "if... then... else.." hacks everywhere. it is already unsafe... press and hold a key and ventilation is gone, for example.

Collaborating with a open ventilator project is not a competition for me. My intention is to help any team in need of a good code for running a Ventilator. I do not really care about competing with Ford, GM, or any other bad code written by hobbyists.

Do whatever suits you.


Re: FDA Approval

 

FIRST TRY at a complete physical implementation of the controller.

1.? I don't have wires yet for controlling the valves brought out -- CB mic connector may work and not expose users to any voltage at all.
2.? I don't have the air pressure lines brought out.
3.? I don't have a connection yet for the MEDICALLY QUALIFIED power supplies I have!? ?So I'm running off battery in this demo
4.? I glued on the nipple on a bmp280....hope to heck that I didn't get any glue on the bmp!!!!? ?The glue took wAY longer to solidify thaN I was Planning
5.? Hole is cut to allow us to switch to 20x4, but at this instant a bezel for 16x2
6.? Positioning is set to allow us to switch to Asher board if we get some made (don't have any assembled yet)

Pushbuttons turn out to be more proof against waater than I expected because of their design and I added some dielectric grease to further reduce entrance.
The electrical box is THICK and that turns out to cause some problems....but at least for the first time I don't have wires MOVING aall the time..

This will get better, but it is a start.
Now i need the softare to get close to fnished!
THANKS, folks!!

Gordon


Re: Backup battery

 
Edited

I like the idea of battery backup however for ventilators powered by hospital ¡°house air supply¡± , if the patient is being moved then the compressed air / medical breathable air will be disconnected and the battery will be powering only the circuits and alarms which will be pinging away to notify pressure loss.

systems having independent blowers or bag squeezers won¡¯t have this issue except for low oxygen alarm but you guys are all avoiding the expense of blowers to keep this system Swiss watch reliable with third world price ..and why not , that¡¯s where lives will be saved.

Hopefully the software will have lines of code that can be enabled / disabled to activate inclusion of equipment such as servo motors or blowers at a later point.

i am aware that time is critical and none of us want delays in completion ?, backup battery is still useful in case of power outages with a fixed bed.


Re: Transducer board // power supply

 

I only tested 0x76 and 0x77 -- THANKS for that system.
We are busy drlling to put the system in a box.? ?I have my whole familly helping.? Two circuit boards are mounted, now doing bezels then come pushbuttons.

Gordon


Re: #ExhalationValve #ExhalationValve

 

You're Welcome Jim.
Also all Orbit valves are not equal or modifiable as I previously suggested. ?The valve I used and modified is the Orbit 57461 and is available from several sources for about ~$15. ?This model is called the "Jar Top" model. ?The only additional suggestion I would have is to provide a small plastic part to balance support the spring on the valve body base. ?The valve works fine without but may get longer cycle life with this addition. ?I do have the a couple of the screw top Orbit valves but they are not easily modified for remote pilot pressure control operation.
Thanks for the feedback and good luck on the test.?

Marc Al
WA9ZCO


Re: Transducer board // power supply

 

Gordon:

Did you test the device listening address? There are a number of programs out there that can determine it for you. This is the first one I found:


Jack, W8TEE





On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 9:38:54 AM EDT, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:


For the first time, i have a working "transducer board" / power supply that can handle both AC and battery inputs.
It isn't perfect, it is just all I have at the moment and a lot of blood sweat and tears went into getting even that.
the photo is attached (you can see that I had some "issues" such as limited parts availability, unwillingness to risk parts, goofs, etc)
The Schematic is attached -- and yes, you will have to pick the values off the photo of the board (will do better later)
In the built board, I have only so far put in ONE of the two trickle charging parallel current sources.? ?No matter.??

TWO ISSUES:
1.? The Adafruit board works? (0x77) but I could not get the KeeYee BMP280 board to work.? Why?? I dunno.? ?Wrong bus voltage?? Dunnno.? SEND 3.3 VOLTS TO THE I2C BUS please -- the Ashar 0.1schematic/Stapleton 1.0 Board use 3.3 volt bus.? ?

2.? Dumb me, the AC Power green led stays dimly lit even when the battery is having to run the thing.? ?May have to put a resistor in parallel with the Green LED to get it to quit.? ?Will work on that later.??

This is of course optional.? ?I was instructed to add battery backup (I'm a volunteer, remember?) by the UF Team -- so I did.? ?Now it turns out tht the FDA will accept merely having a commercial UPS running the thing.? Duh!? ?We didn't know that until a day ago.

No warrntees; no guarantees; use any of this information at your own risk.


Re: FINISHING: Capturing Baselines, and Adjusting Alarms

 

All:

I worried about the ability of people in lesser-developed countries having C programming expertise to take a project with 25 source code files and being able to make the changes necessary to get it working with the resource pool at their disposal. Who knows what will be used for the Rainbird valves in Kenya or what their parameters will be? As a result, I spent most of my time working on the code from Ashhar, mainly because of that concern. Also, Marcelo's code was very robust from the outset. I was even more hampered by not having any kind of test bed to exercise my code, instead relying on feeding the code to Ashhar and Gordon for testing.

I used Marcelo's UI as a baseline, but worked with it on a 4x20 display. Long story short, I got all of the options Marcelo was using in his UI working with Ashhar's baseline code. After several long days of coding, I sent copies to Gordon and Ashhar for testing. Neither even acknowledged receiving it, let alone anything about exercising it. So, I've been following the posts here, and see both tacts making progress, so I'm assuming that my code has either been discarded or absorbed. Either way, it's not a problem, as all I've wanted the entire time was to have a body of code that any C programmer with a year or so experience could take it and get a vent working for them in short order. You guys have done that and I'm really pleased to see the project getting very close to FDA submission.

I'll continue to watch the progress as the project marches through the FDA approval process. Gordon: kudos to your Herculean effort on keeping this project focused and on target. I only wish there was more that I could have done to ease your burden along the way.

Jcak, W8TEE

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 7:48:11 AM EDT, Marcelo Varanda via groups.io <mv_email@...> wrote:



What is the reason that Software Developers collaborating with this project are not working on the baseline in CSSALT GitHub?
Please be free to openly criticize if there is something wrong there the same way I did so about the other Software.

If we had all collaborated with that baseline, for example, had integrated the BMP280 sensor, we would have all these requirements being easily implemented.

Thanks,
MV